Embassy Suites By Hilton Houston Downtown At 1515 Dallas St.

[livincinco]

Seems like everyone prefers the five empty parking lots in the picture instead. We're lucky that anything is getting built downtown right now. This is a benefit to that part of town regardless of whether is meets your standards.

[scarface]

I don't know about you all, but this is pretty close to the renderings if you ask me. Everyone's getting so worked up over an unfinished project. Just wait for the final product like Highway 6 said and the chips will probably fall in to place. It probably won't be as bad as you all think.

[TheNiche]

Yeah but this isn't even complete infill. This only infilled about half of a small block, there's still going to be surface parking on this lot.

Consider it an opportunity for a future developer to obstruct your view of this pillar of architectural mediocrity.

[VelvetJ]

Ha Haaaaaaaaaaa, yet ANOTHER one for Houston. While I love the fact that my years old complaint about designs for Houston are continuously being proven out, I still hate that it's happening .

While it may not be as bad as the infamous 'Mercer', I think I am safe in calling it the 'Mercer' of Downtown.....for now, because a design that is worse could be in the works.

And while I have read the expected old reliable responses to bad designs in this city of "just be greatful something was built", or "a better design would have been more costly, which justifies this design", I still have to go back to the question I have been asking for years at this point. Would this building have even been CONSIDERED for downtown Chicago? Even CONSIDERED for Buckhead Atlanta? Even CONSIDERED for Downtown Los Angeles? How about even considered for Downtown Dallas? Yet, here it is in Houston. Not Tulsa. Not Corpus Christi. Not Downtown Amarillo. It sits in the downtown of the 4th largest city in the country. What is it about our city in particular that developers believe that such designs are ok for us and not say..... Chicago? Seriously. I suppose it all goes back to the tone that is set in this city, that apparently says such things are ok. WHY IS THAT?

The Niche, to be quite honest I'm surprised you didn't somehow find a way to defend this thing . You know I love u.

*note* I am in no way suggesting other cities do not have ANY badly designed buildings, nor that every single structure that rises in Houston should be a billion dollar spectacle. Oh, and nor am I suggesting every single building in Houston is mediocre like this Embassy Suites thing. I have to cover all of the extremes to try to be as clear as possible.

[TheNiche]

Ha Haaaaaaaaaaa, yet ANOTHER one for Houston. While I love the fact that my years old complaint about designs for Houston are continuously being proven out, I still hate that it's happening .

While it may not be as bad as the infamous 'Mercer', I think I am safe in calling it the 'Mercer' of Downtown.....for now, because a design that is worse could be in the works.

And while I have read the expected old reliable responses to bad designs in this city of "just be greatful something was built", or "a better design would have been more costly, which justifies this design", I still have to go back to the question I have been asking for years at this point. Would this building have even been CONSIDERED for downtown Chicago? Even CONSIDERED for Buckhead Atlanta? Even CONSIDERED for Downtown Los Angeles? How about even considered for Downtown Dallas? Yet, here it is in Houston. Not Tulsa. Not Corpus Christi. Not Downtown Amarillo. It sits in the downtown of the 4th largest city in the country. What is it about our city in particular that developers believe that such designs are ok for us and not say..... Chicago? Seriously. I suppose it all goes back to the tone that is set in this city, that apparently says such things are ok. WHY IS THAT?

The Niche, to be quite honest I'm surprised you didn't somehow find a way to defend this thing . You know I love u.

*note* I am in no way suggesting other cities do not have ANY badly designed buildings, nor that every single structure that rises in Houston should be a billion dollar spectacle. Oh, and nor am I suggesting every single building in Houston is mediocre like this Embassy Suites thing. I have to cover all of the extremes to try to be as clear as possible.

Not all buildings are intended to be stunning. I'm well beyond that expectation.

It is funny, though...even before getting to your "note", I'd considered each of those angles to rebut. And now that you've identified and conceded all of those counterpoints, I can succinctly conclude that your "note" is a justification to dismiss your thesis.

[Jax]

In case anybody is trying to remember what the rendering looked like (I was)...

[photolitherland]

I was going to post my photos on here but I see that has already been done...

[Urbannizer]

I was going to post my photos on here but I see that has already been done...

Sorry, you stopped posting stuff and what not here, so I did'nt expect you to. I did provide a link to your photos to where you origanlly posted them.

[livincinco]

Ha Haaaaaaaaaaa, yet ANOTHER one for Houston. While I love the fact that my years old complaint about designs for Houston are continuously being proven out, I still hate that it's happening .

While it may not be as bad as the infamous 'Mercer', I think I am safe in calling it the 'Mercer' of Downtown.....for now, because a design that is worse could be in the works.

And while I have read the expected old reliable responses to bad designs in this city of "just be greatful something was built", or "a better design would have been more costly, which justifies this design", I still have to go back to the question I have been asking for years at this point. Would this building have even been CONSIDERED for downtown Chicago? Even CONSIDERED for Buckhead Atlanta? Even CONSIDERED for Downtown Los Angeles? How about even considered for Downtown Dallas? Yet, here it is in Houston. Not Tulsa. Not Corpus Christi. Not Downtown Amarillo. It sits in the downtown of the 4th largest city in the country. What is it about our city in particular that developers believe that such designs are ok for us and not say..... Chicago? Seriously. I suppose it all goes back to the tone that is set in this city, that apparently says such things are ok. WHY IS THAT?

The Niche, to be quite honest I'm surprised you didn't somehow find a way to defend this thing . You know I love u.

*note* I am in no way suggesting other cities do not have ANY badly designed buildings, nor that every single structure that rises in Houston should be a billion dollar spectacle. Oh, and nor am I suggesting every single building in Houston is mediocre like this Embassy Suites thing. I have to cover all of the extremes to try to be as clear as possible.

I frequently stay at the Embassy Suites in Buckhead and I promise you that its design is every bit as mediocre. This isn't a Houston thing, it's an Embassy Suites thing.

[Mister X]

I frequently stay at the Embassy Suites in Buckhead and I promise you that its design is every bit as mediocre. This isn't a Houston thing, it's an Embassy Suites thing.

This is very true. But in Velvet J's defense: since when did knowing what the hell you are talking about ever matter at HAIF. Suggesting that all those other cities don't allow ugly buildings to be built is asinine.

Check out this beauty in dt dallas

For all you haters out there, just be glad that a 19-story building like ES can't make that big of an impact downtown other than infill and to remove a part of a surface lot. But I would also suggest waiting until this building is finished to make your judgments.

[totheskies]

Yeah, once again... it's not the original design. But you know what?? It's being built and is going to add 300 hotel rooms to the downtown inventory. It hasn't been cancelled. That's a lot more than some metros can hope for right now. So I am thankful.

[mfastx]

You're right. It certainly would have been better to leave the entire lot a parking lot. All or nothing, I say. It's the internet way.

I know you're being sarcastic, but I definately prefer this over a complete surface lot. It's just a bummer that Embassy Suites owns the whole block, so no other building (in the near future) will be built on the remaining surface lot.

[mfastx]

Consider it an opportunity for a future developer to obstruct your view of this pillar of architectural mediocrity.

IIRC, the rest of the block is owned by Embassy Suites, so they would have to buy the parking spaces from them in order to build anything. I would rather they build on the five other surface lots in the picture now though lol.

[RedScare]

Ha Haaaaaaaaaaa, yet ANOTHER one for Houston. While I love the fact that my years old complaint about designs for Houston are continuously being proven out, I still hate that it's happening .

While it may not be as bad as the infamous 'Mercer', I think I am safe in calling it the 'Mercer' of Downtown.....for now, because a design that is worse could be in the works.

And while I have read the expected old reliable responses to bad designs in this city of "just be greatful something was built", or "a better design would have been more costly, which justifies this design", I still have to go back to the question I have been asking for years at this point. Would this building have even been CONSIDERED for downtown Chicago? Even CONSIDERED for Buckhead Atlanta? Even CONSIDERED for Downtown Los Angeles? How about even considered for Downtown Dallas? Yet, here it is in Houston. Not Tulsa. Not Corpus Christi. Not Downtown Amarillo. It sits in the downtown of the 4th largest city in the country. What is it about our city in particular that developers believe that such designs are ok for us and not say..... Chicago? Seriously. I suppose it all goes back to the tone that is set in this city, that apparently says such things are ok. WHY IS THAT?

The Niche, to be quite honest I'm surprised you didn't somehow find a way to defend this thing . You know I love u.

*note* I am in no way suggesting other cities do not have ANY badly designed buildings, nor that every single structure that rises in Houston should be a billion dollar spectacle. Oh, and nor am I suggesting every single building in Houston is mediocre like this Embassy Suites thing. I have to cover all of the extremes to try to be as clear as possible.

Yep. Only Buckhead could get an Embassy Suites as cool as this...

BTW, does Los Angeles even HAVE a downtown?

Edited July 19, 2010 by RedScare

[TheNiche]

IIRC, the rest of the block is owned by Embassy Suites, so they would have to buy the parking spaces from them in order to build anything.

Nope. The parking for Embassy Suites is wholly contained within its garage, and the adjacent lot is owned by Dallas-based investors doing business as MIPS Parking, LLC.

[lockmat]

Nope. The parking for Embassy Suites is wholly contained within its garage, and the adjacent lot is owned by Dallas-based investors doing business as MIPS Parking, LLC.

Where did you get this ownership information? the media? a govt. website?

thanks

[UrbaNerd]

Nope. The parking for Embassy Suites is wholly contained within its garage, and the adjacent lot is owned by Dallas-based investors doing business as MIPS Parking, LLC.

Oh, that's interesting. The irregular shape would also allow for an interesting scenario of whatever gets built there. Hopefully, it's tall enough to block the view of the ES from DG.

[mfastx]

Nope. The parking for Embassy Suites is wholly contained within its garage, and the adjacent lot is owned by Dallas-based investors doing business as MIPS Parking, LLC.

Well I'm glad to hear that, I thought Embassy Suites owned it because they included surface parking on that side of the block on their site plan. If the don't own it, how are they allowed to tear it up during construction?

[TheNiche]

Where did you get this ownership information?

HCAD

Well I'm glad to hear that, I thought Embassy Suites owned it because they included surface parking on that side of the block on their site plan. If the don't own it, how are they allowed to tear it up during construction?

If you look carefully at the building footprint, it comes to within inches of the property line with the surface parking lot. That's no coincidence. Besides, if they had owned the whole block then it would have been absolutely crazy not to have used the extra land in such a way as would've allowed them to build a shorter and fatter structure, which would've ended up costing them less per key.

They most likely did a land lease for their construction staging area just like they leased the land under the new hotel from the Harris County Houston Sports Authority.

[Houston19514]

HCAD

If you look carefully at the building footprint, it comes to within inches of the property line with the surface parking lot. That's no coincidence. Besides, if they had owned the whole block then it would have been absolutely crazy not to have used the extra land in such a way as would've allowed them to build a shorter and fatter structure, which would've ended up costing them less per key.

They most likely did a land lease for their construction staging area just like they leased the land under the new hotel from the Harris County Houston Sports Authority.

TheNiche is correct about the staging area ownership, but the HCHSA does not own the land under the new hotel. The land was leased from a limited partnership (ALH PROPERTIES NO FOURTEEN LP) apparently owned by a local family.

[TheNiche]

TheNiche is correct about the staging area ownership, but the HCHSA does not own the land under the new hotel. The land was leased from a limited partnership (ALH PROPERTIES NO FOURTEEN LP) apparently owned by a local family.

I stand corrected. That's 1515 Dallas St., not 1515 La Branch.

[VelvetJ]

This isn't a Houston thing, it's an Embassy Suites thing.

While I would not suggest Embassy Suites be recommended for any design awards, I thought the initial rendering was acceptable. I had no complaints. Then the reality of the altered Houston design began to become more clear like so many other structures in our recent past, and I realized it was time to post at this site. There are a number of their hotels that are what I would call acceptable, so while it may indeed be a Embassy Suites thing, for me it is more than just that, it's a Houston thing as well.

My posting here was about the Embassy Suite design because that is the subject of this thread, however those who are familiar with me know what my gripe has been and what it continues to be. Houston, a city once known for it's architecture, to the point of people would travel from around the world to see it, has had a UNUSUAL AMOUNT of mediocre/bad building designs particularly in the past 15-20 years. While other cities have had badly designed buildings to rise in the past 15-20 as well, it has been my observation that my home city seem to have had MORE than it's share. For every badly designed building that has gone up in Chicago, we have had 3. Even in Houston itself, for every MainPlace, we have had 2-3 bad/mediocre one's to counter. Why has this been the case? I'm not sure if I have really gotten a satisfactory answer. It has always seemed to turn into little jabs, or excuses here and there, or long drawn out answeres from a few who apparently love to read their own words.

So, my argument can be nit-picked and taken to extremes by some who live at this sight, but the Embassy Suites in downtown looks as if it will become part of the ongoing saga in Houston. Oh well, until the next 40 story beige stucco box to rise at the corner of Post Oak and Westheimer.

[TheNiche]

For every badly designed building that has gone up in Chicago, we have had 3.

That sounds about right, considering the differential in our rates of growth.

No, actually I agree with you. I personally find a lot of our architecture to be trite, cliched, derivative, uninteresting, mediocre and/or bad. And though more was spent to gussy up the Bank of America Building than Five Houston Center, and even though the Bank of America Building has received tremendous recognition--honestly--I put each in the same category.

Uninteresting buildings have been around since prehistoric times. They will certainly be around until humanity's end.

I shrug.

[RedScare]

For every badly designed building that has gone up in Chicago, we have had 3. Even in Houston itself, for every MainPlace, we have had 2-3 bad/mediocre one's to counter. Why has this been the case? I'm not sure if I have really gotten a satisfactory answer.

Perhaps because no one is sure they agree with you. There are 3 tallish buildings under construction in downtown currently, and 2 get high marks. Yet, you focus one the one that may or may not be attractive (it is currently shrouded in tarps), and declare "Houston" bad/mediocre. You, like a few others on here, have a nagging habit of complaining about one building, then suddenly making a giant leap and exclaim that all of Houston sucks. Then, you'll throw in a blanket statement that Dallas, Atlanta or Chicago doesn't suck...without giving examples...and wonder why Houston can't be like them. Truth is, if you nitpicked those cities and skylines like you did your own, THEY would suck as well. Your problem is that you are simply a downer. You look for reasons to be disappointed, and it is not hard to find them in any city. Every city is full of forgettable architecture, but you only look for it in your own hometown. Sounds like you spend too much time on Skyscraper Page.

Let's see some examples, so we can keep score.

['Stonian]

Well VelvetJ I agree with you WHOLEHEARTEDLY!! (& I am sure of it!) Niche is "in"famous for spitting out a bunch of nonsense in most of his posts. One the one hand he agrees with you then, he goes off on some tangent about why the 56 story B of A ICON building is comparable to the 27 story 5 Houston Center. (BTW: I love 5 HOU CTR!) Most of Niche's posts leave me wondering if dude has any social skills or if he's one who just loves to hear himself talk. And don't even get me started on Red Scare.., He's never seen a building in Houston he doesn't like. He'd justify the architectural significance of the old dilapidated run down DAYS INN downtown if given the opportunity. He's the ultimate HOMER..., in Red Scare's mind developers in Houston can do no wrong as far he's concerned.

Houston is my hometown as well, and to be honest, although I currently reside in Atlanta, I couldn't care less if Atlanta, Chicago, or Dallas throw up trashy eyesore buildings. I nitpick Houston's skyline because I CARE!!! No one said all of Houston sucks, but if I see another 1-sided Mercer go up then you better believe I'm gonna vent & raise a stink about it. Not that I can change anything to make the developers adhere to their renderings, but I'm certainly free to state my opinion on HAIF.

Furthermore, I did not expect the Embassy Suites to be an architectural masterpiece, but even after only seeing the crayon colored cartoon-ish rendering I was pleasantly surprised that they had chosen a decent design only to be severely disappointed to see them cut out most of the features that made ES "decent". While most of the building is still covered under tarps as they complete the stucco facade, it is abundantly clear that this design is greatly altered from the rendering. At this point I'm just hoping the finished product doesn't turn out as awful as I suspect it will.

It would have been better had they not even released the rendering and just built the crap as is, then there would have been no expectation that a decent hotel was going to be built right next to downtown's premiere urban park.

Just my 2 cents Red & Niche..., You guys have put in quite a bit more than your 2 cents!

[RedScare]

And don't even get me started on Red Scare.., He's never seen a building in Houston he doesn't like. He'd justify the architectural significance of the old dilapidated run down DAYS INN downtown if given the opportunity. He's the ultimate HOMER..., in Red Scare's mind developers in Houston can do no wrong as far he's concerned.

Boy, you missed me by a mile, but I'll let you run with it. FWIW, I am not defending the crappy Embassy Suites hotel, merely stating that it is not unlike any other city's crap, such as the picture of the one in Atlanta that I posted. Further, one 19 story building has no effect on Houston's reputation. And, further still, I am actually mocking the lack of architectural knowledge of the other posters, not bragging on my own. Not that any of this matters. It's not like internet opinions of me or you matter in real life...

[RedScare]

Oh, but I do plead guilty to being a Houston homer. Quite proud of it, actually. And, it has nothing to do with buildings or developers, and much more to do with people like Niche and crunchtastic and Porchman...people with brains and opinions based on information and knowledge, as opposed to myths and urban legends...that live in this great burg.

[TheNiche]

Well VelvetJ I agree with you WHOLEHEARTEDLY!! (& I am sure of it!) Niche is "in"famous for spitting out a bunch of nonsense in most of his posts. One the one hand he agrees with you then, he goes off on some tangent about why the 56 story B of A ICON building is comparable to the 27 story 5 Houston Center. (BTW: I love 5 HOU CTR!)

The height of a building does not exempt it from criticism.

If we are to use use VelvetJ's system of having two categories for "Mainplace" and "bad/mediocre" to describe aesthetic quality, then--in my opinion--the Bank of America Center and 5 Houston Center get lumped in the latter category.

(BTW: You love this? And you're complaining about ugly buildings!? Just sayin'.)

['Stonian]

Red, I don't think I missed you by a mile. Although I rarely post comments, I've been reading this board for years and know your HAIF personality. Believe it or not I do appreciate the fact that you're a Houston Homer, because I am also! Hell I used to think I was the only one until I discovered this website. But please note: Not all of us homers live in H-town, some of us are out on location spying out the competition ;-)

You defend Houston at all costs and that's commendable, but you also run the risk of not being taken seriously when you can never admit "OUR" faults. This town has a long history of being controlled by developers and allowing these same developers to throw up whatever type of hideous structures they desire to with zero regard for aesthetics just to save a buck.

I'm tired of wasting gas having to drive round-about ways around town to avoid some of these abominations when showing off my hometown to friends/relatives visiting from out of town! When I take them to Discovery Green I don't want them asking "What the hell is that 'thing' on top of yall's Embassy Suites?" I'm tired of making up stories to justify some of this nonsense!! (i.e. I-10 Memorial Hermann bldg & Westin Hotel, Mercer, Legacy @ Memorial--you know the "new" ugly biege box that's now blocking downtown's "money shot photo", that recycling plant @ corner of SW Freeway 59/Fountainview, to name a few)

And honestly that's what it seems you, Niche, and a few other HAIF posters are always doing...., MAKING UP STORIES TO JUSTIFY SOME OF THIS CRAP! But I know better and I'm not afraid to admit that sum of our buildings look like shyt!

['Stonian]

Niche, that's just like you to go find and post the most unflattering angle of 5 Houston Center to make your point. I wouldn't expect anything less from you. We all know that pic is not a proper representation of 5-HC.