Minute Maid Park Mixed-Use Development

[H-Town Man]

Not sure if this will be mixed-use or just retail.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/astros/amp/Astros-Jim-Crane-expansion-Minute-Maid-Park-16596664.php

Edited November 6, 2021 by H-Town Man

[H-Town Man]

On 5/4/2021 at 10:30 AM, tangledwoods said:

For everyone worried, there is about a 99% chance this will end up as a Texas Live! or equal.  It's helpful to remember that companies like Live Nation and Cordish (folks behind the Live! brand) have been absolutely hosed by the pandemic.  Project financing is just not all that simple right now and mixed use projects like this one take time to get organized. 

For now just enjoyed the asphalt paved paradise.

 

Rereading this, I think you must have been referring to the Crane-owned site. I had thought you wrote it in reference to Block 100 (next to Marriott).

[Fortune]

32 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

Not sure if this will be mixed-use or just retail.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/astros/amp/Astros-Jim-Crane-expansion-Minute-Maid-Park-16596664.php

The article says mixed use development, so I'm not sure why that is being questioned. 

[wilcal]

If the Astros do lose one of their lots for NHHIP, I wonder if they are planning on doing a parking garage in the new development or on the further lot.

You have to think between 81 home games, 20 Dynamo games, and 15ish Dash games it makes economic sense to build a parking garage. Throw in some retail and there is some potential born out of their parking necessity. 

[H-Town Man]

12 hours ago, Fortune said:

The article says mixed use development, so I'm not sure why that is being questioned. 

Good point. I guess I'm wondering, will it just be a low, mostly retail development, or will there be a high rise (likely residential) component above it?

[cspwal]

15 hours ago, wilcal said:

If the Astros do lose one of their lots for NHHIP, I wonder if they are planning on doing a parking garage in the new development or on the further lot.

You have to think between 81 home games, 20 Dynamo games, and 15ish Dash games it makes economic sense to build a parking garage. Throw in some retail and there is some potential born out of their parking necessity. 

It would be cool if the parking garage was connected to Minute Maid via the existing train 

[tigereye]

On 11/5/2021 at 8:25 PM, H-Town Man said:

Not sure if this will be mixed-use or just retail.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/astros/amp/Astros-Jim-Crane-expansion-Minute-Maid-Park-16596664.php

Definitely mixed use. 
 

The question I have based on this  article pertains to the following statement. 

Astros owner Jim Crane said Friday that construction on a ballpark entertainment district surrounding Minute Maid Park is set to begin “probably within 12 months.”

Surrounding MMP? That could actually happen. We know the Astros also own the plot of land at 1701 Prairie (by CF gate) that was formerly a halfway house (now demolished). Could they have additional plans for that plot as well? There’s a sizable chunk of green space across Crawford St behind the roof that combined with the Prairie lot, gives them a lot of space to work with. And since it’s next to Heritage Park, that would make a great location for an Astros Hall Of Fame building. 

[phillip_white]

37 minutes ago, tigereye said:

Definitely mixed use. 
 

The question I have based on this  article pertains to the following statement. 

Surrounding MMP? That could actually happen. We know the Astros also own the plot of land at 1701 Prairie (by CF gate) that was formerly a halfway house (now demolished). Could they have additional plans for that plot as well? There’s a sizable chunk of green space across Crawford St behind the roof that combined with the Prairie lot, gives them a lot of space to work with. And since it’s next to Heritage Park, that would make a great location for an Astros Hall Of Fame building. 

The statements by Crane specifically mentions developing three sides of the stadium:
Area around Union Station
Homeplate Bar & Grill
Parking Lots near the freeway after 45 is below ground level

It makes sense to start with the southern lots near Homeplate and end with the parking lots.

[nate4l1f3]

4 hours ago, phillip_white said:

The statements by Crane specifically mentions developing three sides of the stadium:
Area around Union Station
Homeplate Bar & Grill
Parking Lots near the freeway after 45 is below ground level

It makes sense to start with the southern lots near Homeplate and end with the parking lots.

I hope you’re right, but where does he actually mention that HE will redevelop any area besides the old home plate and bar grill/church parking lot? 

[nate4l1f3]

5 hours ago, tigereye said:

Definitely mixed use. 
 

The question I have based on this  article pertains to the following statement. 

 

 

Surrounding MMP? That could actually happen. We know the Astros also own the plot of land at 1701 Prairie (by CF gate) that was formerly a halfway house (now demolished). Could they have additional plans for that plot as well? There’s a sizable chunk of green space across Crawford St behind the roof that combined with the Prairie lot, gives them a lot of space to work with. And since it’s next to Heritage Park, that would make a great location for an Astros Hall Of Fame building. 

I’ve always liked this idea by you. Combining that lot at CF and the wasted green space would be pretty cool.  But now that we know for sure (have know for a while now) that the ballpark village will be where home plate bar used to be, idk that it would make sense to build something similar and pull game day traffic away from the ballpark village. The hall of fame building would work on the grass but building something on that empty lot would have to make more financial sense IMO- Unless he only owns the small parcel that the old halfway house sat on and not the whole block. I can definitely see an Alexan style apartment on that whole block with some GFR at the corner. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by nate4l1f3

[nate4l1f3]

Just for fun here’s my uneducated guess on how this is developed. 
 

Red= Multi-story Apartments & Hotel (mix-use)

Yellow= 2-3 story stand alone building with some restaurant/bars/entertainment 

Green= 2-3 story buildings w/ More Restaurants/Bar/entertainment & New team store. 
 

Red & Green buildings open and integrate into the open space courtyard for dinning and game watching on the big screen. Might be too much courtyard space here but I won’t get too picky. 
 

We have more space to develop here than the Colorado Rockies had but less space than the St. Louis Cardinals have. I’m really looking forward to seeing what he comes up with. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by nate4l1f3

[tigereye]

10 hours ago, phillip_white said:

The statements by Crane specifically mentions developing three sides of the stadium:
Area around Union Station
Homeplate Bar & Grill
Parking Lots near the freeway after 45 is below ground level

It makes sense to start with the southern lots near Homeplate and end with the parking lots.

In this article, Crane specifically says the following: 

Quote

If they get the freeway done and it goes underground that’s going to be a park,

However, we’ve seen city documents posted on the 45 reroute thread illustrating development occurring over the freeway deck. I’m not sure what’s planned here but Crane’s quote above suggests  the Astros might not be involved with freeway deck development…. yet. All depends on if the reroute downtown even occurs at this point. I agree with @nate4l1f3 for the halfway house site, I could envision more high rise residential development (hopefully with ground floor retail/restaurant) occurring here next to 500 Crawford. I’m guessing they’re looking at adding as much residential surrounding the ballpark as they can, which creates not only more population in the area after office hours but also more potential consumers to sell tickets too that are more likely to attend games being located steps away from the ballpark. Considering the situation, I’d say the phases of ballpark development could go like this:

Phase 1: Home Plate site.

Phase 2: CF site.

Phase 3: Freeway Deck (if reroute occurs) 

Edited November 9, 2021 by tigereye

[tigereye]

4 hours ago, nate4l1f3 said:

Just for fun here’s my uneducated guess on how this is developed. 

Yellow= 2-3 story stand alone building with some restaurant/bars/entertainment 

The yellow lot is owned by Annunciation Church. IIRC they’ve planned to build a garage here for a while but nothings happened. Not sure if that’s still their plan. 
 

The lot that piques my curiously for more development is Block 120 behind Marriott Marquis. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by tigereye

[phillip_white]

6 hours ago, nate4l1f3 said:

I hope you’re right, but where does he actually mention that HE will redevelop any area besides the old home plate and bar grill/church parking lot? 

I'm just going off of what was attributed to him in the article:

Quote

Crane on Friday referenced the over $100 million the team has spent renovating areas like the Gallagher Club and Ultra Club inside the stadium, and said the next goal is to create an entertainment district in the area around Union Station and the now-closed Home Plate Bar & Grill.

With reference to the development by the freeway, he doesn't spell it out but why would you pump up the area as a major attraction so you can leave blocks of parking lots? If anything, that would be the spot for a mixed-use parking garage... assuming the highway realignment happens, which I am not necessarily a fan of (but a development like what I'm imagining plus the other projects this will encourage could make 10+ years of construction worth dealing with).

Quote

If they get the freeway done and it goes underground that’s going to be a park, so this area’s going to be a primetime area down the road for everybody to come down and enjoy the ballpark.

 

[tigereye]

Just as a reminder, the Downtown TRIZ’s plans for on cap development, post 59 reroute.

See pages 61-69 for EaDo Ramble. 

http://www.downtowntirz.com/downtownhouston/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/08-11-20-Board-Book-FINAL.pdf

[sapo2367]

1 hour ago, tigereye said:

Just as a reminder, the Downtown TRIZ’s plans for on cap development, post 59 reroute.

See pages 61-69 for EaDo Ramble. 

http://www.downtowntirz.com/downtownhouston/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/08-11-20-Board-Book-FINAL.pdf

Love these plans -- what a difference this will be for downtown!

[H-Town Man]

7 hours ago, nate4l1f3 said:

Just for fun here’s my uneducated guess on how this is developed. 
 

Red= Multi-story Apartments & Hotel (mix-use)

Yellow= 2-3 story stand alone building with some restaurant/bars/entertainment 

Green= 2-3 story buildings w/ More Restaurants/Bar/entertainment & New team store. 
 

Red & Green buildings open and integrate into the open space courtyard for dinning and game watching on the big screen. Might be too much courtyard space here but I won’t get too picky. 
 

We have more space to develop here than the Colorado Rockies had but less space than the St. Louis Cardinals have. I’m really looking forward to seeing what he comes up with. 

My worry is that the yellow and green boxes become 2-3 story retail and the red area becomes a parking garage, and the "mixed use" refers to retail and parking. I think if he were planning a high rise, he would not have compared it to the developments in St. Louis and Atlanta. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[nate4l1f3]

4 hours ago, tigereye said:

The yellow lot is owned by Annunciation Church. IIRC they’ve planned to build a garage here for a while but nothings happened. Not sure if that’s still their plan. 
 

The lot that piques my curiously for more development is Block 120 behind Marriott Marquis. 

It’s not in the article (typical Chron 🙄) but Crane mention specifically that he has hope that the Chruch would let him build an underground parking lot on that site. He joked that since the nuns have been at the games that he has a little more leverage now lol. I don’t think he mentions this without being confident in being able to do so. This was said at the end of the year press conference so the comments are very recent. 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by nate4l1f3

[nate4l1f3]

33 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

My worry is that the yellow and green boxes become 2-3 story retail and the red area becomes a parking garage, and the "mixed use" refers to retail and parking. I think if he were planning a high rise, he would not have compared it to the developments in St. Louis and Atlanta. Hope I'm wrong.

 

I actually think it’s a great thing that he compared it to those two. He’s also mentioned in years past about touring these entertainment specific venues for baseball. You can’t mention all that and proceed to lay an egg. 

3 hours ago, phillip_white said:

I'm just going off of what was attributed to him in the article:

With reference to the development by the freeway, he doesn't spell it out but why would you pump up the area as a major attraction so you can leave blocks of parking lots? If anything, that would be the spot for a mixed-use parking garage... assuming the highway realignment happens, which I am not necessarily a fan of (but a development like what I'm imagining plus the other projects this will encourage could make 10+ years of construction worth dealing with).

 

That freeway and cap seem so far off that it’s hard to even imagine. Don’t they need more funding for the cap separate from the freeway expansion? Either way, you can get a better idea by listening to his comments. I actually think he’s just pumping up how the area will become even more desirable. 

 

[Houston19514]

15 hours ago, tigereye said:

Definitely mixed use. 
 

The question I have based on this  article pertains to the following statement. 

 

 

Surrounding MMP? That could actually happen. We know the Astros also own the plot of land at 1701 Prairie (by CF gate) that was formerly a halfway house (now demolished). Could they have additional plans for that plot as well? There’s a sizable chunk of green space across Crawford St behind the roof that combined with the Prairie lot, gives them a lot of space to work with. And since it’s next to Heritage Park, that would make a great location for an Astros Hall Of Fame building. 

1701 Prairie appears to be in the middle of the ballpark. Not sure what land you are saying the Astros own in the area west of the ballpark.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Houston19514

[txtiger]

I still think the last street section of Avenida should be demoed, and the whole, extended block be developed into something like St. Louis' Union Station:  https://www.stlouisunionstation.com/explore

A monumental observation wheel like that in Munich could be centered on the Avenida, but w/ the long part of the wheel footprint oriented due-north.  Surround the wheel w/ family-friendly diversions, including something like a Legoland Discovery Center.  This would give Houston the 3rd-largest observation wheel in the States, after those in Las Vegas and Orlando, and a collection of family-friendly attractions beyond Downtown Aquarium.

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by txtiger

[nate4l1f3]

8 hours ago, nate4l1f3 said:

Just for fun here’s my uneducated guess on how this is developed. 
 

Red= Multi-story Apartments & Hotel (mix-use)

Yellow= 2-3 story stand alone building with some restaurant/bars/entertainment 

Green= 2-3 story buildings w/ More Restaurants/Bar/entertainment & New team store. 
 

Red & Green buildings open and integrate into the open space courtyard for dinning and game watching on the big screen. Might be too much courtyard space here but I won’t get too picky. 
 

We have more space to develop here than the Colorado Rockies had but less space than the St. Louis Cardinals have. I’m really looking forward to seeing what he comes up with. 

For reference here is the whole Ballpark village in St Louis (google earth pic). I envision the yellow lot to house a building similar to the Twitter pic but with most activity facing Avenida Americas given the rectangle shape of the lot. Of course they could just put something like this in the bigger lot and use the church lot as more of a courtyard.   

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by nate4l1f3

[nate4l1f3]

10 minutes ago, txtiger said:

I still think the last street section of Avenida should be demoed, and the whole, extended block be developed into something like St. Louis' Union Station:  https://www.stlouisunionstation.com/explore

A monumental observation wheel like that in Munich could be centered on the Avenida, but w/ the long part of the wheel footprint oriented due-north.  Surround the wheel w/ family-friendly diversions, including something like a Legoland Discovery Center.  This would give Houston the 3rd-largest observation wheel in the States, after those in Las Vegas and Orlando, and a collection of family-friendly attractions beyond Downtown Aquarium.

 

I thought about the idea of abandoning Avenida as well but redoing it and keeping it open as more of a passage way to the park for fans coming from Discovery Green area. That’s wheel is a fantastic idea and in a way would be the offspring of the failed Texas museum that was planned there not long ago. 

[H-Town Man]

1 hour ago, nate4l1f3 said:

I actually think it’s a great thing that he compared it to those two. He’s also mentioned in years past about touring these entertainment specific venues for baseball. You can’t mention all that and proceed to lay an egg. 

I'm sure both of those places are very nice, and whatever he builds will be very nice. The point was, it doesn't sound like he's planning to build a highrise.

 

[Houston19514]

2 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

My worry is that the yellow and green boxes become 2-3 story retail and the red area becomes a parking garage, and the "mixed use" refers to retail and parking. I think if he were planning a high rise, he would not have compared it to the developments in St. Louis and Atlanta. Hope I'm wrong.

 

 

58 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

I'm sure both of those places are very nice, and whatever he builds will be very nice. The point was, it doesn't sound like he's planning to build a highrise.

 

Am I understanding you correctly?  Crane's comparison to the STL Ballpark Village and the Battery in ATL causes you to assume he doesn't plan a highrise?  

Ballpark Village in St Louis includes a 29-story apartment building...

The Battery includes a 16-story Omni Hotel...

Crane specifically mentioned planing apartments, hotel, or both.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Houston19514

[tigereye]

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

1701 Prairie appears to be in the middle of the ballpark. Not sure what land you are saying the Astros own in the area west of the ballpark.

Wrong address. 1511 Preston, the old white halfway house that was demolished last year. 

[tigereye]

1 hour ago, txtiger said:

I still think the last street section of Avenida should be demoed, and the whole, extended block be developed into something like St. Louis' Union Station:  https://www.stlouisunionstation.com/explore

A monumental observation wheel like that in Munich could be centered on the Avenida, but w/ the long part of the wheel footprint oriented due-north.  Surround the wheel w/ family-friendly diversions, including something like a Legoland Discovery Center.  This would give Houston the 3rd-largest observation wheel in the States, after those in Las Vegas and Orlando, and a collection of family-friendly attractions beyond Downtown Aquarium.

 

I would agree. Convert Avenida De Las Americas into a pedestrian thoroughfare from Lamar St up to the ballpark, linking all of these destinations (Toyota Center, GBRCC, Discovery Green, Ballpark Village and the MMP) together like a string of pearls. Although McKinney street turn lane will still need to exist for access to the Discovery Green parking garage. This encourages fans leaving both sports venues towards the park which helps further support all of the restaurants built into GRBCC’s facade and around Discovery Green. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by tigereye

[nate4l1f3]

29 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

I'm sure both of those places are very nice, and whatever he builds will be very nice. The point was, it doesn't sound like he's planning to build a highrise.

 

I get what you’re saying. My initial rebuttal was more to you’re comment about him just building a parking garage with retail when he’s already stated he’ll build an apartment and/or hotel on that site. I’m not expected a 40 story tower but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go relatively high here. 

[Houston19514]

21 minutes ago, tigereye said:

Wrong address. 1511 Preston, the old white halfway house that was demolished last year. 

HCAD still says that property is owned by the Permanent School Fund and FWIW, the rest of that block is owned by a variety of parties, none of which appear to be Crane or the Astros.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

17 hours ago, tigereye said:

 

Surrounding MMP? That could actually happen. We know the Astros also own the plot of land at 1701 Prairie (by CF gate) that was formerly a halfway house (now demolished). Could they have additional plans for that plot as well? There’s a sizable chunk of green space across Crawford St behind the roof that combined with the Prairie lot, gives them a lot of space to work with. And since it’s next to Heritage Park, that would make a great location for an Astros Hall Of Fame building. 

I wouldn't put that much weight on that choice of words, especially if it was the Chron's choice of words. 😉

Consider that the same article tells us that TxDoT plans to reroute US 59 and I45 underground "on the stadium's southwest side".  SMH

Edited November 9, 2021 by Houston19514