Houston Texans

[RedScare]

Injuries, too. But, why run when you good recievers, runningbacks, and a good line? Once in a while qaurterbacks suppose to run to help out the team to get them out of a bind, but not every series like Vick does. That's why he's always injuried.

Bingo.

McNabb stopped running a couple of years ago. He is a much better QB when he stays in the pocket. Culpper won't be running in Miami either. Vick is pretty much the only runner left, because the coaches figured out that even big QBs like McNabb and Culpepper get hurt running. Rushing for 100 yards means nothing when you sit out the next 4 games with an ankle sprain or a broken finger.

Another problem with running QBs is they tend to give up on the play too quickly. How many times have you seen Vick get pressured a bit, and suddenly try to be the hero by running. If he would have stayed in the pocket, his receivers may have gotten open for a big gainer instead of his scrambling 6 or 8 yards. Sportscasters and fantasy football fans love running QBs. Coaches don't.

[Trae]

Vick is also the hype machine. I don't know why or how he keeps going to the pro-bowl year after year. There is really nothing special to him.

[Gary]

Another problem with running QBs is they tend to give up on the play too quickly. How many times have you seen Vick get pressured a bit, and suddenly try to be the hero by running. If he would have stayed in the pocket, his receivers may have gotten open for a big gainer instead of his scrambling 6 or 8 yards. Sportscasters and fantasy football fans love running QBs. Coaches don't.

That's exactly right. Running quarterbacks simply don't work in the long run in the NFL. The offenses that are running today require the quarterback to give 3 to 4 looks to operate properly, it's the nature of the beast. This is one of the reasons I desperately hoped the Texans wouldn't draft Young, as he doesn't sit in the pocket long enough for NFL standards.

Now on the Mcnabb being a running quarterback. He WAS a running quarterback when he came into the league, but was obviously taught the fundamentals required of an NFL quarterback. That being said no one worth there weight in salt would consider him a running QB. On top of that, he's gotten fat and slow. I'll never forget two years ago when he ran out of gas in the Super Bowl and had to keep calling huddles with time running out.

As far as Vick, not a great arm but unbelievable speed. There's no way this guy could be anything but a running QB.

I still think that there's a trend back to the more fundamental QB, via scouts, coaches and GM's. The statistics are overwelmingly in favor of pocket quarterbacks during the length of a NFL season. The records also show that these pocket QB's win Super Bowls.

[Trae]

Big Ben is a great pocket QB, but he is also a quick guy. Have you seen him run?? I would like a QB like him.

[houstonsemipro]

Big Ben really don't show me nothing. He have veterns that made him good. If Carr had veterns surrounding him, with good coaches he be just as good as Big Ben today.

[DJ V Lawrence]

^^I have been around football my whole life semipro (I actually play defensive tackle for Katy now), and the real reason for McNabb and Culpepper's low run yards was because of their injuries. They were gone for the majority of the seaon.

The 2004 season would have been a better example. The chart, if I can remember, went something like this:

1. Vick

2. McNabb

3. Carr

4. Culpepper

I will go look up the stats.

BOO KATY FOOTBALL

HOORAY ALIEF HASTINGS!!!

I kid, Trae, I kid. Back on topic, I alwayz assumed that running quarterbacks only succeed if they have great blockers working with them. Is that accurate, or does that not matter? I would imagine that if a quarterback had a strong offensive line, they wouldn't have to run.

[Gary]

BOO KATY FOOTBALL

HOORAY ALIEF HASTINGS!!!

I kid, Trae, I kid. Back on topic, I alwayz assumed that running quarterbacks only succeed if they have great blockers working with them. Is that accurate, or does that not matter? I would imagine that if a quarterback had a strong offensive line, they wouldn't have to run.

Running quarterbacks are great for High school and to a large extent college, they are not however designed to work in the pro's. The pro's have made attempts at using them, but in the long haul they don't work. The NFL is much faster, much more talented, and generally doesn't rely on one star player to win championships, thus a running QB can actually neutralize the talent base of a team.

As far as O lineman protecting running quarterbacks, it's almost an oxymoron. Players like Vick often outrun there lineman, versus waiting on them before making there way downfield, this is vudu in the NFL.

Again, the NFL is a whole other ball of wax in talent and speed, and for anyone who's waiting on a running QB to win a Super Bowl, you'll probably be waiting a long time.

[RedScare]

BOO KATY FOOTBALL

HOORAY ALIEF HASTINGS!!!

I alwayz assumed that running quarterbacks only succeed if they have great blockers working with them. Is that accurate, or does that not matter?

Gotta get tackled eventually, don't you? QB is finesse. Even a guy Culpepper's size has to throw the ball. Once he runs, he's free meat. A jammed finger, dislocated shoulder, any number of injuries can affect his throwing motion. Running backs play hurt all the time, as long as they can still hold onto the ball. Not so, with a QB.

I agree with Gary on Young. Very few teams make a go of it with a running QB, including the Titans. If Young doesn't learn to read routes and throw from the pocket, he won't make it.

[houstonsemipro]

Houston Texans have signed veteran Patriots CB Earthwind Moreland today. Another addition to the troubling CBs.

Wow! What a name, Earthwind? Somebody's mom was thinking hard on the group, Earth Wind and Fire. We all know what his parents was listening to while making him..

Edited August 5, 2006 by houstonsemipro

[DJ V Lawrence]

Houston Texans have signed veteran Patriots CB Earthwind Moreland today. Another addition to the troubling CBs.

Wow! What a name, Earthwind? ...... We all know what his parents was listening to while making him..

James Taylor? Sorry. Bad joke

[houstonsemipro]

The Texans debut was awsome. They looked like another team (Broncos), with David Carr and other quarterbacks rolling out passing the ball, even running more. The rookie runningback, Lundy did good, but he needs to work on his catching. You need to run and catch Lundy if you wanna be a back in the NFL.

But, overall I was overwhelmed by the new system Kubiak brings to the Texans. On the another hand, they must have more runningback depth, cause how if Davis don't come back? Meaning Lundy, Taylor and Morncey have to step up. Antwann Smith? I don't know. He didn't show me enough tonight. Maybe he would make good plays next week against the Rams.

The defense? They did a great job by holding the Cheifs to a scoreless first quarter. Mario Williams had a quiet night, but I'm guessing he have to get in the groove in the NfL. He'll have a better game maybe next week.

My predictions still the same. 6-8 games this seasons.

[Trae]

11 or more. A 10-6 season depends on how many wins the other teams have.

[ProHouston]

11 or more. A 10-6 season depends on how many wins the other teams have.

While this is a good standard, it's not always true. 8-8 teams have gotten in before. 9 win teams often get in, it just depends on the season and the league.

[houstonsemipro]

With the Texans in the same division as Clots and Jaguars. It's going to be very hard to reach that 10-11 record. Texans need to focus more on beating the Clots this year, at lease beat'em once.

When the Texans beat Clots, that's when they have a chance on going to the playoffs.

Edited August 13, 2006 by houstonsemipro

[KimberlySayWhat]

The Clots? lol! What city do they play for?

[Trae]

It's the Colts, but its good to call them the Clots .

[houstonsemipro]

Ooops, my bad. But, y'all know what I'm talking about.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Yo, what day is the Texan's opening game against the Eagles? My friend gave me a free ticket to that one

[Trae]

What section, maybe you'll see me .

[houstonfella]

We've got Clots and 10-11 records. Am I missing something here??????

[AftonAg]

Gotta get tackled eventually, don't you? QB is finesse. Even a guy Culpepper's size has to throw the ball. Once he runs, he's free meat. A jammed finger, dislocated shoulder, any number of injuries can affect his throwing motion. Running backs play hurt all the time, as long as they can still hold onto the ball. Not so, with a QB.

I agree with Gary on Young. Very few teams make a go of it with a running QB, including the Titans. If Young doesn't learn to read routes and throw from the pocket, he won't make it.

Agreed Red - I would use Young as a receiver - he has the wheels and the moves. He could also be used for the end around/pass the way the Steelers use one of their receivers. The problem with him as a running QB is that every linebacker in the NFL is as fast as the fastest linebacker he faced in college, and many of the d-linemen are very fast, and both are too strong for Young to run through like he did the college boys. If he catches the ball on the edge - he has two maybe three guys to beat and even this Aggie likes those odds. When it comes to running QB's NFL stands for NOT FOR LONG.

Moving on to the Texans - I think they will win at least 9 games this year. As for the draft pick and taking Mario Williams instead of Reggie Bush. . . . how many games were close in the 4th quarter last year that turned into losses because the defense could not get a stop? Defenses win championships - and I think that Kubiak will have the Texans in the Super Bowl within six years.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Carr still shows that he's a bit unsettled at times in the pocket and doesn't recognize blitzes as well as he should (this is his fifth year). On the one blitz where he was almost sacked, every blocker picked up his blitz responsibility and the free man who came through was David's read, and it took him too long to recognize it. I liked that he settled down, however, in the second quarter and made a string of quality passes to both Putzier and AJ, but I'm hoping that he'll eventually develop a bit more confidence in his line and bit more composure when a blitz is coming, because teams are certainly going to blitz the Texans' offense until proves that it can handle them consistently. As for David, not only does his recognition of blitzes need to improve but so do some of his throws under pressure. He had two very makeable completions in the first half that he missed because he wasn't settled under pressure. It happens, sure, but the rate still needs to go down as far as David's concerned. As a QB, you're gonna take a hit while throwing from time-to-time. You need to stand in there and follow through else you've basically gotten hit for nothing.

Anyway, other than that and our bad secondary play in the second half last night, lots to be excited about. The running game looks great. The first team defense looks great (Mario Williams was in the backfield two or three times in the second quarter), the linebackers have been very impressive (Greenwood is definitely a better 4-3 backer than a 3-4 one) and the wide receivers and tight ends look like real weapons. I don't see how you don't keep Lewis as your #4 or #5 receiver at this point.

Also good to see that Rosenfels will be at least as good of a backup QB as was Tony Banks. Hopefully, he won't be needed, but even so... he looks capable of running the offense competently.

Edited August 20, 2006 by The Great Hizzy!

[rantanamo]

Running quarterbacks are great for High school and to a large extent college, they are not however designed to work in the pro's. The pro's have made attempts at using them, but in the long haul they don't work. The NFL is much faster, much more talented, and generally doesn't rely on one star player to win championships, thus a running QB can actually neutralize the talent base of a team.

As far as O lineman protecting running quarterbacks, it's almost an oxymoron. Players like Vick often outrun there lineman, versus waiting on them before making there way downfield, this is vudu in the NFL.

Again, the NFL is a whole other ball of wax in talent and speed, and for anyone who's waiting on a running QB to win a Super Bowl, you'll probably be waiting a long time.

I think too many people have this idea that a qb has to be a running or throwing qb OR that you can't win with a running qb.

a.) There is no such thing as a running qb. There are qbs that are fast and can run. There are qbs that run option offenses. A good QB like Steve McNair got the ridiculous label as a running qb coming out of college because he could run. Nevermind the passing offense he played in at Alcorn.

b.) To say guys that can run or run more often or are better scramblers don't work over the long haul is ridiculous. I could name many many many more guys who prefer the pocket and aren't as athletic who won nothing. Why is Steve Young not considered as a runner? Roger Staubach? Fran Tarkenton? Donovan McNabb? Randall Cunningham? Winning the Superbowl is not the ONLY measure of a winning qb. Guys like that won/have won for years.

c.) As far as qbs outrunning lineman, if they don't understand this, they aren't that good of football players in the first place. But if you want an example of when a qb needs some mobility just look at Drew Bledsoe. That guy needs to run some times.

In conclusion, if you're waiting on a so-called running qb to win a Superbowl, you've missed out on the illustrious history of the NFL and are too busy trying to praise the pocket sitting of the Tom Brady's of the world. Winning in the NFL is about execution, no matter how you do it. Not about how you play a position. If you do what YOU do well, within a good scheme and is well executed

[The Great Hizzy!]

Drew Bledsoe is to running what the Yugo was to luxury cars.

[RedScare]

I think too many people have this idea that a qb has to be a running or throwing qb OR that you can't win with a running qb.

a.) There is no such thing as a running qb. There are qbs that are fast and can run. There are qbs that run option offenses. A good QB like Steve McNair got the ridiculous label as a running qb coming out of college because he could run. Nevermind the passing offense he played in at Alcorn.

b.) To say guys that can run or run more often or are better scramblers don't work over the long haul is ridiculous. I could name many many many more guys who prefer the pocket and aren't as athletic who won nothing. Why is Steve Young not considered as a runner? Roger Staubach? Fran Tarkenton? Donovan McNabb? Randall Cunningham? Winning the Superbowl is not the ONLY measure of a winning qb. Guys like that won/have won for years.

c.) As far as qbs outrunning lineman, if they don't understand this, they aren't that good of football players in the first place. But if you want an example of when a qb needs some mobility just look at Drew Bledsoe. That guy needs to run some times.

In conclusion, if you're waiting on a so-called running qb to win a Superbowl, you've missed out on the illustrious history of the NFL and are too busy trying to praise the pocket sitting of the Tom Brady's of the world. Winning in the NFL is about execution, no matter how you do it. Not about how you play a position. If you do what YOU do well, within a good scheme and is well executed

Much of what you say is true. However, you may have mixed to many arguments, in order to respond to everyone. First off, the term "running QB" is a media term, generally ascribed to Black QBs who are stronger and faster. "Scrambling QBs" are usually White. David Carr has run...or scrambled...for many yards, usually not by design. Daunte Culpeppr is also gifted at running from trouble, often not by design. One is a runner, the other, a scrambler...but both do the same thing. They operate from a traditional offense, and run as a last option.

To use the terminology correctly, an offense that incorporates running by the QB would use a "running QB". An offense that uses running backs and passing would work best with a "scrambling QB", or one who can use his running ability to get out of a jam. Atlanta allows Michael Vick to cancel pass plays and run when he thinks it is advantageous. He would be a running QB. McNabb had a somewhat similar setup in his earlier years. In the last several years, he has been a pocket passer, only running when his pass options or blocking fail.

My point was that offenses that incorporate running by the QB as one of the primary options rarely succeed long-term, for they subject the QB to injury. It also allows the QB to give up on the play too quickly, thinking their running ability will get them yardage, when the pass may get them big yardage. QBs with the ability to run from trouble add an extra element to a standard offense.

If Vince Young takes the Michael Vick approach, he will get Michael Vick results. If he takes the McNabb approach, he'll get McNabb results. His ability to run is not in dispute. His ability to be a QB is the debate. McNabb is a far better QB than Vick, because McNabb runs the play, while Vick just runs.

As it relates to the Texans, Carr is able to run when the need arises. What is more important, is whether he can throw. I think he can. More importantly, so does Kubiak.

[Gary]

I think too many people have this idea that a qb has to be a running or throwing qb OR that you can't win with a running qb.

a.) There is no such thing as a running qb. There are qbs that are fast and can run. There are qbs that run option offenses. A good QB like Steve McNair got the ridiculous label as a running qb coming out of college because he could run. Nevermind the passing offense he played in at Alcorn.

b.) To say guys that can run or run more often or are better scramblers don't work over the long haul is ridiculous. I could name many many many more guys who prefer the pocket and aren't as athletic who won nothing. Why is Steve Young not considered as a runner? Roger Staubach? Fran Tarkenton? Donovan McNabb? Randall Cunningham? Winning the Superbowl is not the ONLY measure of a winning qb. Guys like that won/have won for years.

c.) As far as qbs outrunning lineman, if they don't understand this, they aren't that good of football players in the first place. But if you want an example of when a qb needs some mobility just look at Drew Bledsoe. That guy needs to run some times.

In conclusion, if you're waiting on a so-called running qb to win a Superbowl, you've missed out on the illustrious history of the NFL and are too busy trying to praise the pocket sitting of the Tom Brady's of the world. Winning in the NFL is about execution, no matter how you do it. Not about how you play a position. If you do what YOU do well, within a good scheme and is well executed

Instead of going into an in depth analysis of your obvious ignorance of the history and makeup of the NFL and it's QB's, I'll ask you to show me one "scrambler" (as you call it) that's taken there team to a Superbowl win. Oh, and Please don't use Staubach or Young as your example as they were pocket passer's who could run when needed. Also, while it's true that a "winning QB" doesn't necessarily have to win a Superbowl, everything is measured by that acomplishment. Warren Moon for example had fantastic numbers, but is largely considered a failure among most diehard Oiler's fans. Why? because he could not win the big game. Tarkenton's problem with not winning Superbowls (if you remember correctly) was in large part due to his turning the ball upfield to often.

If you understand the game and the principle behind a standard NFL offense (even the West Coast), then you understand what is meant by a "running QB". Assuming you do understand this, then you most certainly understand that the style of QB being refered to is a completely different style of player versus your above examples.

Now that I've cleared this up I'll wait for your reply.

Edited August 21, 2006 by Gary

[DJ V Lawrence]

Much of what you say is true. However, you may have mixed to many arguments, in order to respond to everyone. First off, the term "running QB" is a media term, generally ascribed to Black QBs who are stronger and faster. "Scrambling QBs" are usually White. David Carr has run...or scrambled...for many yards, usually not by design. Daunte Culpeppr is also gifted at running from trouble, often not by design. One is a runner, the other, a scrambler...but both do the same thing. They operate from a traditional offense, and run as a last option......

.....As it relates to the Texans, Carr is able to run when the need arises. What is more important, is whether he can throw. I think he can. More importantly, so does Kubiak.

I agree for the most part, but think there's another reason why Carr's considered a scrambling QB. In my opinion, Carr ran all those yards because he HAD to run. His protection was sub-par. If he doesn't run, he gets sacked, and his protection didn't give him enough time on many occasions to throw. It's a miracle he's still not hurt.

When I see guys like Vick or McNabb play, it looks to me like their protection sets them up to run just-in-case. They have a better chance at getting hurt, but not because they run; but because they keep running instead of diving. Vince Young, too. They all take the hit instead of taking the safe route, and that eventually comes back to haunt them.

What I think we agree on is that Carr has an arm. If the OL is as good as we hope they are, I think we're looking at a minimum .500 season. If not, get ready for another top 5 draft pick debate.

Lemme know how my boyz look this preseason. I refuse to watch that stuff.

[Gary]

I agree for the most part, but think there's another reason why Carr's considered a scrambling QB. In my opinion, Carr ran all those yards because he HAD to run. His protection was sub-par. If he doesn't run, he gets sacked, and his protection didn't give him enough time on many occasions to throw. It's a miracle he's still not hurt.

When I see guys like Vick or McNabb play, it looks to me like their protection sets them up to run just-in-case. They have a better chance at getting hurt, but not because they run; but because they keep running instead of diving. Vince Young, too. They all take the hit instead of taking the safe route, and that eventually comes back to haunt them.

What I think we agree on is that Carr has an arm. If the OL is as good as we hope they are, I think we're looking at a minimum .500 season. If not, get ready for another top 5 draft pick debate.

Lemme know how my boyz look this preseason. I refuse to watch that stuff.

DJ. I'm not quite sure who considers Carr a scrambling QB. He's a classic drop back passer who has some ability to run (see Staubach). Also, The Eagles & Falcons O-line isn't designed to set up a run for there QB's with the exception of an actual play call. That's where the running QB problem comes in as they generally think run after there second look.

As far as the Texans, they look pretty good but still need to solidify who's going to play weakside tackle, you know Carrs blind side. If they get that position solid they could be headed to a playoff birth.

[The Great Hizzy!]

I still have my doubts about Seth Wand but he has looked decent in his time out on the field over the first two preseason games. Spencer had a couple of miscues covering his assignments (picking up the wrong guy) but also had some very impressive blocks.

The right side (that is, David's weak side) is also very interesting. You hope that at some point this season, Eric Winston's recognition of blocking schemes and the like improves to the point where he can be ready to fill in if Wiegert doesn't work out long term.

As for Donovan McNabb and "running QBs"... I don't think Donovan's been a prototypical running QB since about the 2003 season. For one, he's a lot heavier than in his first five years in the league (and slower) and he's become a lot more sensitive about injuries since he suffered a fairly serious one towards the end of the 2003 season. His running style is a lot more defensive than explosive, that's for sure.

[DJ V Lawrence]

DJ. I'm not quite sure who considers Carr a scrambling QB.

If I were basing it on only last season, I would definately call him a scrambling QB. He didn't have any other choice. I hope he doesn't have to run as much this season. I have faith in the OL, and Kubiak.