Houston Texans

[KimberlySayWhat]

Well, gang, you all know more about this stuff than I do, but from what I understand, it's sort of like counting on Roy Oswalt for homeruns. Fab player, but not for homers. But just maybe we'll all be pleasantly surprised come the new season and everyone will be saying, "Reggie who?". Maybe. I hope.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Well, gang, you all know more about this stuff than I do, but from what I understand, it's sort of like counting on Roy Oswalt for homeruns. Fab player, but not for homers. But just maybe we'll all be pleasantly surprised come the new season and everyone will be saying, "Reggie who?". Maybe. I hope.

We could always trade for Reggie Bush near season's end and give up our 1st and 2nd round draft picks in 2007, right?

[713 To 214]

Technically, Hakeem would be Vince Young, and Micheal would be Bush. Hakeem wasn't a bad pick. He still was an MVP, a UH prospect, and we won two championships with him as the star of the team. If we never won those championships, and he was never MVP, I'd say it was a bust. But we got what we wanted to get....

I wouldn't go as far as saying that w/out the championships or MVP's, it was a BUST. However, I will remind everyone here that the only reason the Hakeem and the Rockets got those championships was b/c Jordan was playing baseball those 2 years.

btw: The Texans organization messed this one up. . .any way you slice it!

[DJ V Lawrence]

I wouldn't go as far as saying that w/out the championships or MVP's, it was a BUST. However, I will remind everyone here that the only reason the Hakeem and the Rockets got those championships was b/c Jordan was playing baseball those 2 years.

btw: The Texans organization messed this one up. . .any way you slice it!

Not true. Even if Jordan were with the Bulls, we would've beaten them. Hell, Jordan was playing with the Bulls during the playoffs when we won the second season. Jordan was a great player because he had great teammates and great coaches to complement his talent. Jordan probably wouldn't have brought a championship to Houston with Don Cheney as coach. Phil Jackson deserves credit where it's due.

The Texans did a good job with the draft. I was a Bush supporter because I've seen his talent on tv many times. I never watched Williams, but we've all heard what he can do defensively, and his talents perfectly fit the Texans' weaknesses. They were the worst team in the NFL last year in defense against the rush, and 24th against the pass, and we've now signed two or three star pass rushers to turn us from the worst defense to possibly the best overnight. We also got two steals in terms of offensive linemen to protect Carr. If they do their job, Carr will excel. And if Carr didn't come through, he wouldn't have an excuse.

[J.A.S.O.N.]

This has to qualify as THE "What In The Hell Just Happened" moment of 2006

[JasonDFW]

However, I will remind everyone here that the only reason the Hakeem and the Rockets got those championships was b/c Jordan was playing baseball those 2 years.

Most definitely. 91, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98. He didn't come back until 3/18 and that was too late to get into prime shape for the playoffs. That was obvious from even his first game back, which he'd have loved to make a 50 point game.

Jason

[ProHouston]

Most definitely. 91, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98. He didn't come back until 3/18 and that was too late to get into prime shape for the playoffs. That was obvious from even his first game back, which he'd have loved to make a 50 point game.

Jason

Not true. The Rockets had one of the best, if not the best, records against the Jordan led Bulls during Jordan's tenure. The Rockets surely would've beat a Jordan led Bull team in the NBA Finals. No doubt in my mind.

[JasonDFW]

Not true. The Rockets had one of the best, if not the best, records against the Jordan led Bulls during Jordan's tenure. The Rockets surely would've beat a Jordan led Bull team in the NBA Finals. No doubt in my mind.

The consensus in the rest of the country is the Rockets would not have gotten the titles. The consensus inside Houston is the opposite. No surprise then that you have no doubts. I have little doubt that if the Rockets had won the first championship Jordan would have trained so hard the next off season he'd have slain the Rockets by himself.

Jason

Edited May 1, 2006 by JasonDFW

[TJones]

The consensus in the rest of the country is the Rockets would not have gotten the titles. The consensus inside Houston is the opposite. No surprise then that you have no doubts. I have little doubt that if the Rockets had won the first championship Jordan would have trained so hard the next off season he'd have slain the Rockets by himself.

Jason

I guess by the rest of the country you mean Dallass/Ft.Worthless. Jordan trained so hard to come back because he embarrassed himself trying to play baseball, so he wanted to make sure his skills were intact, and again, he can't win without Pippen. There still would have been no domination either, because they wouldn't have been able to get by Shaq and Hardaway.

Edited May 1, 2006 by TJones

[DJ V Lawrence]

The consensus in the rest of the country is the Rockets would not have gotten the titles. The consensus inside Houston is the opposite. No surprise then that you have no doubts. I have little doubt that if the Rockets had won the first championship Jordan would have trained so hard the next off season he'd have slain the Rockets by himself.

Jason

The consensus in the rest of the country? C'mon, man. The country was dissing Houston left and right between 93-95. You don't remember? Vernon Maxwell running into the stands (no Artest, you're not the first)? Houston not getting a national Sports Illustrated cover after we beat the Knicks in the Finals? The NYC "Hellhole" title? The "Choke City" title? I can go on and on. No one outside the state and with no Texas blood predicted or supported the Rockets to a championship. Hell, the Astros STILL didn't get the respect the Red Sox got when they won the Pennant (not talking about the World Series; I'm talking about the NLCS).

The Rockets were the only team capable of beating the Bulls with Jordan on it those two years. And he was in the playoffs the second run. Just because he wasn't "100%" should not mean those championships of ours deserve an asterioks.

Houston sports will be respected only if the Texans win three Super Bowls in a row...

[JasonDFW]

I guess by the rest of the country you mean Dallass/Ft.Worthless.

You guessed wrong. When I had formed that opinion and viewed it elsewhere, it was around the time of 95/96 season and I had never stepped foot in "Dallass/Ft.Worthless."

And by the way Lawrence, I don't think the Rockets deserve asterisks. They were the best team in the league those two years. Someone just brought up that "what if" scenario that I commented on.

Jason

[DJ V Lawrence]

You guessed wrong. When I had formed that opinion and viewed it elsewhere, it was around the time of 95/96 season and I had never stepped foot in "Dallass/Ft.Worthless."

And by the way Lawrence, I don't think the Rockets deserve asterisks. They were the best team in the league those two years. Someone just brought up that "what if" scenario that I commented on.

Jason

I gotcha. They weren't the best team in terms of regular season record, but they were back-against-the-wall champs. Thay was nerve-racking, but fun to watch:)

Yo, I don't mean to tick off the admin, but I'd like to ask the question... Houston or Dallas? I mean, who will make it to the playoffs and go deeper into them this season? Cowboys or Texans? Dallas gets T.O., and we get Mario Williams. They got Parcells and we got Kubiak. Who will be the better Texas team this year?

I say Texans.

[TJones]

Houston sports will be respected only if the Texans win three Super Bowls in a row...

......and then, MAYBE !

[713 To 214]

Yo, I don't mean to tick off the admin, but I'd like to ask the question... Houston or Dallas? I mean, who will make it to the playoffs and go deeper into them this season?

Mavericks!!!

[Gary]

This could turn out to be the worst Number 1 Houston pick since the Rockets picked Hakeem Olajuwan instead of Michael Jordan.

First of all, Hakeem won 2 tiltles last time I checked, and did it with mainly CBA'ers. Not to bad in my book.

Secondly, as someone who played football from elementary through college, I can tell you that this is not a bad pick.

My reasoning... The Texans were last in the NFL in defense last year, while there running game on offense was very respectable. Bring in Kubiac who arguably is one of the best run coaches in years, and the fact that in Denver, Kubiac had consistantly put out great running attacks regardless of who he handed the ball to.

Mario is a major horse, so let's sit back and see how the W's start stacking up.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Mavericks!!!

Aie dawg, aie

Texans or Cowboys? Let the Mavs do their thang. It's either them or the Spurs taking it all this year...

First of all, Hakeem won 2 tiltles last time I checked, and did it with mainly CBA'ers. Not to bad in my book.

Secondly, as someone who played football from elementary through college, I can tell you that this is not a bad pick.

My reasoning... The Texans were last in the NFL in defense last year, while there running game on offense was very respectable. Bring in Kubiac who arguably is one of the best run coaches in years, and the fact that in Denver, Kubiac had consistantly put out great running attacks regardless of who he handed the ball to.

Mario is a major horse, so let's sit back and see how the W's start stacking up.

Agree 100%. I was all Bush at first, but after I saw what the team needed, I couldn't agree with you more.

Edited May 1, 2006 by DJ V Lawrence

[713 To 214]

Aie dawg, aie

Texans or Cowboys? Let the Mavs do their thang. It's either them or the Spurs taking it all this year...

Agree 100%. I was all Bush at first, but after I saw what the team needed, I couldn't agree with you more.

Yeah, it's true that the Texans' defense sucks. However, with Bush in the organization's hand, the Texans could have traded for two to three defensive players and probably a 1st round draft pick next year.

I don't expect many here to understand that, though. . .In my opinion (strictly my opinion) Dallas is a sports town with franchises that strive for championship status. Houston is a town satisfied with hosting other cities' championship franchises. [ many HAIF2 forumer's blood boils right about now]

Edited May 1, 2006 by 713 To 214

[The Great Hizzy!]

I don't expect many here to understand that, though. . .In my opinion (strictly my opinion) Dallas is a sports town with franchises that strive for championship status. Houston is a town satisfied with hosting other cities' championship franchises. [ many HAIF2 forumer's blood boils right about now]

You sound awfully goofy, given the fact neither the Mavs nor the Rangers have even so much as played for a championship in their history. The Cowboys are an epic franchise, granted, and the Stars have their one championship a year or so after moving from Minneapolis. Still, this hardly makes you the grand puba of championship trophees.

Astros history > Rangers history

Rockets history > Mavericks history

Cowboys history > Oilers/Texans history

Stars history > N/A

Aeros history > N/A

Comets history > N/A

None of this, however, has anything to do with the Bush/Williams pick. The Saints are to be congratulated for picking up such a prominent, talented and identifiable player. By adding Bush, they now have three running backs, whom they'll be paying a combined $50 million or so to over the next few years unless they cut Deuce McCallister (a pro bowl back).

Meanwhile, their secondary and linebacking corp is still a trainwreck, the OL lacks depth (as well as any forseeable pro bowlers) and they're left to hope that their signing of a couple of FAs will help.

Bush is an excellent back and, barring injury or just plain goofiness by the coaching staff, should do tremendously. However, you don't win championships with "Gale Sayers" by himself. You need a championship caliber team in the trenches (that is, the OL and DL).

Bush seems like a no-brainer because of his open field ability but you don't get into the open field if you don't have quality blocking. And you don't win many games if you can't stop anyone. The Texans made a significant step in improving their pass rush as well as their OL. They'll need to continue to address it next season as well.

[Gary]

Yeah, it's true that the Texans' defense sucks. However, with Bush in the organization's hand, the Texans could have traded for two to three defensive players and probably a 1st round draft pick next year.

I don't expect many here to understand that, though. . .In my opinion (strictly my opinion) Dallas is a sports town with franchises that strive for championship status. Houston is a town satisfied with hosting other cities' championship franchises. [ many HAIF2 forumer's blood boils right about now]

Geeez, talk about destroying your credibility quick.

Rockets: 4 championship appearances- 2 championships.

Astro's" 9 playoff appearances-1 World Series birth.

Comets: 4 championships in a row.

Oiler's: 3 consecutive and 7 consecutive playoff appearances, and a marketing machine (Luv Ya Blue) that was unsurpassed. Also a 1961 championship trophy with George Blanda.

Texans: Beat the Cowboys in there first recorded game. The reason I mention this is that the team (Texans) played with such heart, Houston has to considered a great football city.

Also regarding your post, Houston fans have long been known for there volume during sporting events, ie the dome or Minute maid. You know the place that MLB made us take the roof off because the noise was so distracting. Houston is a great sports city that I've had the privilege to be a part of.

Edited May 1, 2006 by Gary

[RedScare]

First of all, Hakeem won 2 tiltles last time I checked, and did it with mainly CBA'ers. Not to bad in my book.

Secondly, as someone who played football from elementary through college, I can tell you that this is not a bad pick.

My reasoning... The Texans were last in the NFL in defense last year, while there running game on offense was very respectable. Bring in Kubiac who arguably is one of the best run coaches in years, and the fact that in Denver, Kubiac had consistantly put out great running attacks regardless of who he handed the ball to.

Mario is a major horse, so let's sit back and see how the W's start stacking up.

Gary, that was exactly my point. Even though Jordan is considered the best to play the game, the Rockets did just fine with a workhorse like Hakeem.

Story from The Sporting News, who apparently were allowed access to the Texans offices to watch this unfold.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=88233

Other than UT fans, who know everything about anything, no one will know how good or bad this pick is for several years. I am, however, impressed that the team made the decision for what's best for the team, as opposed to what the fans wanted.

Question for 713/214 - I realize that Dallas is the greatest sports town ever. So, can you explain for me why the Cowboys could not sell out their last home game, when a win would have gotten them into the playoffs?

[713 To 214]

The Texans made a significant step in improving their pass rush as well as their OL. They'll need to continue to address it next season as well.

Which is why I suggested earlier that it would have been better for the Texans to have drafted Bush and traded him for more players, in order to address the team's woeful defense. . .and you can try and justify the organization's decision all you want (undoubtedly to make yourself feel better), but Houston is the laughing stock of the football world right now because of their draft day mistake(s). If you don't believe me, turn your HDTV to ESPN, Fox Sports, or even your local 6:00 news to verify what I'm stating.

Who knows? The Texans may prove the rest of the country wrong with their decision(s). But they look like a bunch of buffoons right now.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Yeah, it's true that the Texans' defense sucks. However, with Bush in the organization's hand, the Texans could have traded for two to three defensive players and probably a 1st round draft pick next year.

I don't expect many here to understand that, though. . .In my opinion (strictly my opinion) Dallas is a sports town with franchises that strive for championship status. Houston is a town satisfied with hosting other cities' championship franchises. [ many HAIF2 forumer's blood boils right about now]

First off, I won't even deduct cool points. I'll simply make your blood boil right back by saying that the Dallas Stars are the only team to win a championship in Dallas. But give credit to Irving and soon Arlington for being satisfied with hosting other cities' championship franchises...like say, the Cowboys

Our defense once sucked, but let's see what Weaver and Williams do to the opposing QB next season. Unless if you're Vince Young, you hurt

...and if we drafted Bush, we would not have traded him

[The Great Hizzy!]

but Houston is the laughing stock of the football world right now because of their draft day mistake(s). If you don't believe me, turn your HDTV to ESPN, Fox Sports, or even your local 6:00 news to verify what I'm stating.

I don't doubt that at all. Not one person has said that Mario Williams will be a bust or a bad player. THey're saying, uncategorically, that the Texans should've taken Bush, regardless of need. Just take him because he has such great talent. Taking Reggie Bush made about as much sense for the Texans immediate development as taking Vince Young. Neither is a need position. Neither.

The same group of "outraged" Texans bashers also said that USC would be the hell out of Texas in the Rose Bowl.

So it goes.

The pure fact is that the NFL Draft has historically proven to be a crapshoot. Tony Mandarich of Michigan State was thought by all to potentially be the greatest OL in history because of his pure size and strength. He turned out to be a mediocre journeyman OL who ended up leaving the NFL six years (and two teams) after he was drafted by the Packers. The media, the same media who is going on and on and on about this, was right there with NFL GMs talking about Mandarich's obvious greateness. They were embarrassingly wrong, which is wont to happen with drafting young men making the change from amateur to pro.

If the Texans needed a RB (and even if they didn't), I can see drafting Reggie Bush, but it's still far from the main ingredient in them winning. You win championships in football with strong lines on both sides of the ball. The Texans had(have) neither.

I don't, however, understand why the Texans couldn't work a deal to trade down. I agree with you there. I would've been happy with Ferguson, Williams or Hawk, assuming that the Texans ended up trading down with the Jets or Packers.

I also don't understand the Saints not being able to work a trade. Their picking Bush makes less sense than the Texans picking him.

Oh well. Not my money. At least, not directly.

Edited May 1, 2006 by The Great Hizzy!

[Gary]

Which is why I suggested earlier that it would have been better for the Texans to have drafted Bush and traded him for more players, in order to address the team's woeful defense. . .and you can try and justify the organization's decision all you want (undoubtedly to make yourself feel better), but Houston is the laughing stock of the football world right now because of their draft day mistake(s). If you don't believe me, turn your HDTV to ESPN, Fox Sports, or even your local 6:00 news to verify what I'm stating.

Who knows? The Texans may prove the rest of the country wrong with their decision(s). But they look like a bunch of buffoons right now.

The cliche "defense wins championships" is a cliche for a reason. The Texans are going to build there defense around Mario, just like New Orleans will build there offense around Bush.

Also to make such a matter of fact statement like " Houston is the laughing stock of the football world right now because of there draft day mistake" is goofy at best. How can it be a mistake when none of these guys have set foot on the field?

Trading Bush away for draft picks may make sense in another draft but it doesn't make sense when you have a monster like this guy available.

How would you have felt if the cowboys chose Barry Sanders instead of Too Tall Jones? Different eras I know, but the point is that defense wins, period.

And as in Houston fashion.... We don't give a ____ what the rest of the country thinks, especially the ESPN know it all's.

Gary, that was exactly my point. Even though Jordan is considered the best to play the game, the Rockets did just fine with a workhorse like Hakeem.

Story from The Sporting News, who apparently were allowed access to the Texans offices to watch this unfold.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=88233

Other than UT fans, who know everything about anything, no one will know how good or bad this pick is for several years. I am, however, impressed that the team made the decision for what's best for the team, as opposed to what the fans wanted.

Question for 713/214 - I realize that Dallas is the greatest sports town ever. So, can you explain for me why the Cowboys could not sell out their last home game, when a win would have gotten them into the playoffs?

My bad Red, I misread your post.

Also, love the UT fans paragraph. Your soooooooo right.

[713 To 214]

And as in Houston fashion.... We don't give a ____ what the rest of the country thinks, especially the ESPN know it all's.

Sour grapes. . .sour grapes!!! Yeah, you're almost right. That statement is in keeping with true [HAIF2] fashion!!

[Gary]

Sour grapes. . .sour grapes!!! Yeah, you're almost right. That statement is in keeping with true [HAIF2] fashion!!

Well I'm glad you're clairvoyant.

[RedScare]

Well I'm glad you're clairvoyant.

...or a UT fan.

[Gary]

...or a UT fan.

Sour grapes Red, sour grapes.

Question for 713/214 - I realize that Dallas is the greatest sports town ever. So, can you explain for me why the Cowboys could not sell out their last home game, when a win would have gotten them into the playoffs?

Don't know how I missed this one. Ouch, point driven into the gut of 713 to 214. >

[713 To 214]

Question for 713/214 - I realize that Dallas is the greatest sports town ever. So, can you explain for me why the Cowboys could not sell out their last home game, when a win would have gotten them into the playoffs?

Because they were getting ready for the Maverick's game! By the way, since you appear to be quite knowledgeable regarding the 2005 NFL season, can you please remind all of us the following: At what point during last year's season were the Texans eliminated from playoff contention?

[Gary]

Because they were getting ready for the Maverick's game! By the way, since you appear to be quite knowledgeable regarding the 2005 NFL season, can you please remind all of us the following: At what point during last year's season were the Texans eliminated from playoff contention?

Brilliance raises it's head again.