Dallas's Victory Project Vs. HPavilions/East Downtown Development

[JasonDFW]

Victory Plaza AA is at least a 15-20 minute walk from the West End.

It's closer to 5 than 15-20min. Last time this question came up I timed it from the West End (OTB) to somewhere near the office building going up and it was a hair under 5 minutes as I recall.

Last time I was in Victory plaza it was during the Dallas film festival and it was pretty packed, but I wouldn't expect anything like that regularly for years. A lot of construction will have to be done before it is just events that fill it up. I think it will happen but it will not be handed to them, they'll need to work for it.

Jason

[Mister X]

It's closer to 5 than 15-20min. Last time this question came up I timed it from the West End (OTB) to somewhere near the office building going up and it was a hair under 5 minutes as I recall.

Jason

That's probably because you were being chased by a homeless guy. For people who aren't trying to prove anything (people who aren't counting steps or timing it like you do) it's about 15 or 20 minutes.

Walk like a man.

[JasonDFW]

That's probably because you were being chased by a homeless guy. For people who aren't trying to prove anything (people who aren't counting steps or timing it like you do) it's about 15 or 20 minutes.

Walk like a man.

Actually I was walking at a mild pace. About the pace I see the conventioneers walking around downtown, but a bit slower than the typical business lunch lady in heels. My father-in-law has a handicap and he can make it faster than 15 or 20 minutes.

Jason

[Mister X]

I guess the original topic of this thread being Victory vs HP, or V vs. HP + Main, or V vs half of Houston or whatever, is dead. People on this board act as though dt Houston is busting with development, and Dallas has only Victory; not so. To use your terminology, Dallas is developing its core from the outside/in, inside/out and top to bottom. Is the Mercantile project outside of dt? No, and the M project is by itself bigger than HP. Is the completion of the Arts District outside of dt? Nope, and it is by itself bigger than HP. How about the hundreds (thousands maybe, I haven't counted) of residential units currently under construction in dt right now? Outside of dt? Nope. It's too bad Dallas has all that empty office space, but what was once blight is now an opportunity: The construction of thousands of residential units for less cost and time than building new. I truly believe the empty office buildings (now that they are being redeveloped) are Dallas' greatest asset in redefining downtown.

If you're going to drag all that crap into it, then I guess we have to start talking about the Theatre District, Bayou Place and the Bayou Walk on the west side of DT Houston - lots of new stuff there. The northwest part of midtown is coming right along. Hey, The TMC is only a few miles south - heard a new large residential tower was going in there. West Ave, BLVD Place, Regency Square and the New Rice Village are all within 6 miles. - Those mixed use projects could change Houston as we know it. Let's not forget the new towers around Montrose and Allen Parkway. Oh and there's the cute new Westheimer Tower just west of midtown. Greenway's still a force to be reckoned with. Uptown Hou - big and getting bigger -can't keep track of all the stuff going on there... What else...

oh yeah, the buzz today is that there may be a new large 'German style' soccer stadium DT, right next to MMP. Wow, three professional sports stadiums all within pissing contest distance of each other. They just keep throwing more logs on the fire in DT Houston. That ought to get this flame war really going.

How is Dallas going to catch up when Houston just keeps building and building and building. I guess the next step is to drag all the new towers in Clear Lake, Memorial, West Chase and the Kirby area into it. -all within the city limits. Now shall we go to Galveston, the Woodlands, or Sugarland? They aren't exactly snoozing out there either. >

Edited May 15, 2007 by Mister X

[713 To 214]

They're both Master-planned communities which will give the overall feel of something a little more suburban.

HP is going to be a community of what? . . . Office Workers? or the many homeless panhandlers who will undoubtedly loiter outside across the street?

[Mister X]

HP is going to be a community of what? . . . Office Workers? or the many homeless panhandlers who will undoubtedly loiter outside across the street?

Whatever it will be a community of... At least there will be living human beings walking around and enjoying it in the web cam images - unlike Victory.

Edited May 15, 2007 by Mister X

[RedScare]

HP is going to be a community of what? . . . Office Workers? or the many homeless panhandlers who will undoubtedly loiter outside across the street?

Umm...he was comparing Victory and Uptown Dallas, not HP. Of course, I still don't understand how Victory, Uptown OR HP will be more suburban....unless maybe they'll all have a CVS in them.

[Dallascaper]

HP is going to be a community of what? . . . Office Workers? or the many homeless panhandlers who will undoubtedly loiter outside across the street?

Oh come on now; there's no need for sarcasm. I'm sure HP's unique assortment of shopping center goodies will attract people from miles around - hundreds of miles, probably. In fact, I anxiously wait being dazzled by the webcam images of urban Houston in all its glory

[JasonDFW]

Now back to the current subject. I love this one by your fellow Dallasite Rantanamo. LOL, I was watching the live news report from there at 10. It wasn't empty. In fact there were people all over the plaza with a decent crowd watching the news.

Guess I'm twisting statements again.

I wish they would have kept the web cam still tonight, it was on just about everything but the crowd, and the broadcast shots of the crowd were much better. Perhaps the poor refresh rate is most to blame, only 5 shots during a newscast is too few.

Edited May 15, 2007 by JasonDFW

[Gary]

I wish they would have kept the web cam still tonight, it was on just about everything but the crowd, and the broadcast shots of the crowd were much better. Perhaps the poor refresh rate is most to blame, only 5 shots during a newscast is too few.

Yeah well correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you guy's had an arena football game tonight. Oh and I'm still waiting for examples of my twisting of truths.

[Mister X]

THAT'S a crowd? :lol:

It looks more like a little line forming to leave the area. But at least I finally see some people there. It only took about 5 days of checking that webcam image. Those folks sure look bored from a distance. Their body language tells the whole story. And it says - "I want to go home".

Edited May 15, 2007 by Mister X

[Mister X]

Oh come on now; there's no need for sarcasm. I'm sure HP's unique assortment of shopping center goodies will attract people from miles around - hundreds of miles, probably. In fact, I anxiously wait being dazzled by the webcam images of urban Houston in all its glory

[The Great Hizzy!]

I wish they would have kept the web cam still tonight, it was on just about everything but the crowd, and the broadcast shots of the crowd were much better. Perhaps the poor refresh rate is most to blame, only 5 shots during a newscast is too few.

Looks pretty much like the Hard Rock/Verizon Wireless Theater area at Bayou Place on a good Thursday night. That's not an insult at all either. Just an observation. If you can get crowds like that consistently, I'd say that's a good start for a new development that's still not quite finished.

[tamtagon]

I understand the developer's reasoning to use Times Square as an example to the eventual atmosphere of Victory Park & AAC Plaza, but this development as a whole seems more like Rockefeller Center.

[C2H]

It's closer to 5 than 15-20min. Last time this question came up I timed it from the West End (OTB) to somewhere near the office building going up and it was a hair under 5 minutes as I recall.

Last time I was in Victory plaza it was during the Dallas film festival and it was pretty packed, but I wouldn't expect anything like that regularly for years. A lot of construction will have to be done before it is just events that fill it up. I think it will happen but it will not be handed to them, they'll need to work for it.

Jason

I'm not trying to keep a fued going here seeing how i think both of these developments are awesome. But i have to call you out on the 5 minute walk claim. My girlfriend and i actually walked and timed the area from AA center to West End. It wasn't 5 minutes. We weren't lolly-gagging either, we were walking at a brisk pace. I understand how you can say that the walk doesn't feel that long because there's things to look at on the way like the new restaurants/bars, W Hotel and the club beneath it, and the House of Blues. However, i do think its a 5 minute walk from the Hooters to West End but definitely not from AA center.

[dfwcre8tive]

Victory offers free Net access

Perot Systems installs wireless network for 75-acre development

12:00 AM CDT on Tuesday, May 15, 2007

By VICTOR GODINEZ / The Dallas Morning News

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...n1.365c0d8.html

Victory Park is going wireless.

Plano-based Perot Systems Corp. is announcing today that it has finished deploying a free Wi-Fi network blanketing the 75-acre development in downtown Dallas.

Perot did the work for real estate developer Hillwood Development.

Ross Perot Jr. is chairman of both companies.

Dave Newgard, who oversees all of Perot Systems' technology work at Victory Park, said there was some debate about making it a paid service, but the fee and signup process would have been too cumbersome.

"We want the visitor experience to be enjoyable," he said. "We do pop up a little registration page so we can track who's coming and going. After that, you've got free Internet access."

...

[Dallasboi]

I'm not trying to keep a fued going here seeing how i think both of these developments are awesome. But i have to call you out on the 5 minute walk claim. My girlfriend and i actually walked and timed the area from AA center to West End. It wasn't 5 minutes. We weren't lolly-gagging either, we were walking at a brisk pace. I understand how you can say that the walk doesn't feel that long because there's things to look at on the way like the new restaurants/bars, W Hotel and the club beneath it, and the House of Blues. However, i do think its a 5 minute walk from the Hooters to West End but definitely not from AA center.

If it takes you 5 min to get to the west end from hooters then you need to ride bikes......guys this shouldn't even take two mins..

[C2H]

If it takes you 5 min to get to the west end from hooters then you need to ride bikes......guys this shouldn't even take two mins..

Ok now this argument is getting ridiculous. Now we're arguing over a difference of 1-2 minutes. If you guys want to claim that DV is a 10 second walk to downtown, then have at it. I'm done with my part in this.

Have a nice day!

[musicman]

Ok now this argument is getting ridiculous. Now we're arguing over a difference of 1-2 minutes. If you guys want to claim that DV is a 10 second walk to downtown, then have at it. I'm done with my part in this.

Have a nice day!

LOL Dallasboi isn't one of our mature members. i've been sucked in to his "arguments." now i just learn to ignore anyone with boi in their name.

[Trae]

Yeah well correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you guy's had an arena football game tonight. Oh and I'm still waiting for examples of my twisting of truths.

Yeah, there was an arena football playoff game going on in the AAC. It was on ESPN.

[Dallascaper]

Yeah, there was an arena football playoff game going on in the AAC. It was on ESPN.

And to the point, Dallas won.

[Analog]

If it takes you 5 min to get to the west end from hooters then you need to ride bikes......guys this shouldn't even take two mins..

During the countless times that I've been in Dallas, I've made that walk, well, countless times. It indeed takes ~2 minutes to get from the old Dallas Alley (West End) to Hooters. If you get stopped crossing the street, then it might take longer.

Hooters to the W is maybe an addtional 5 minutes. Victory is downtown. There's no doubt about it. In fact, it's almost closer to "downtown" than say the Farmers Market (which is inside the loop) or even Deep Ellum. It's closer to "downtown" than Reunion (which is inside the loop). Victory, Uptown, McKinney, West Village, it's pretty much all one big neighborhood.

My wife and I walked it all just a few weeks ago when we were in town. It was easy.

Edited May 16, 2007 by Analog

[Gary]

And to the point, Dallas won.

Actually the point was that the few people that showed up on the flawed "pin hole camera", were there because of the game.

[NDtexan]

Actually the point was that the few people that showed up on the flawed "pin hole camera", were there because of the game.

I think the bigger point is that it doesn't matter whether there's people on the plaza or not. The project is incomplete, and therefore, any opinion or analysis of the whole development right now is incomplete.

Edited May 16, 2007 by NDtexan

[Gary]

I think the bigger point is that it doesn't matter whether there's people on the plaza or not. The project is incomplete, and therefore, any opinion or analysis of the whole development right now is incomplete.

No argument there ND. Let's face it, Victory is cool, and will get better as construction of the area matures. That being said, it becomes fun to poke at some Dallas posters who never post a negative side to Dallas, while the Houston posters post negatives about their city daily. To me thst shows that cultural perceptions can sometimes be true, at least in this case.

I will say that after following Dallas Metropolis off and on, there are a few posters that seem genuinely unbiased.

[NDtexan]

No argument there ND. Let's face it, Victory is cool, and will get better as construction of the area matures. That being said, it becomes fun to poke at some Dallas posters who never post a negative side to Dallas, while the Houston posters post negatives about their city daily. To me thst shows that cultural perceptions can sometimes be true, at least in this case.

I will say that after following Dallas Metropolis off and on, there are a few posters that seem genuinely unbiased.

I agree, the enthusiasm over at dallasmetropolis seems more tempered than it does here. I think there's just something about showing off and shoving stuff in other peoples' faces that's kind of a common human condition. This being a Houston forum, folks from Dallas love to come on here with unabridled excitement and basically brag about what Dallas has and Houston doesn't. The reverse probably would be true if dallasmetropolis had a decent Houston subforum.

Also, while Dallas people definitely make posts here that are too excited and/or too positive, Houston folks do just the opposite with negativity and unabashed criticism.

But in the end, all of that positive and negative crap put together makes a really entertaining and interesting subforum which is probably why there's so much more activity here than any other Outside Houston subforum.

Edited May 16, 2007 by NDtexan

[Dallasboi]

LOL Dallasboi isn't one of our mature members. i've been sucked in to his "arguments." now i just learn to ignore anyone with boi in their name.

How am I immature?....................Musicman please don't go there with me because I have respect for everybody on this forum, and I never stir up anything intentionally.........................Now alot of people may choose to make a debate over something that is really nothing.....but It has nothing to do with me......so please stop painting false pictures of me...And to really be honest me and you have never had a debate about anythng.Correct me if Im wrong.So don't be saying untrue ____ about me.....If anything you are the one that's immature because you can't stand the fact that Dallas is what it's becoming.......I'm sorry guys,but this really ticked me off................

ughhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited May 16, 2007 by Dallasboi

[musicman]

How am I immature?....................Musicman please don't go there with me because I have respect for everybody on this forum, and I never stir up anything intentionally.........................Now alot of people may choose to make a debate over something that is really nothing.....but It has nothing to do with me......so please stop painting false pictures of me...And to really be honest me and you have never had a debate about anythng.Correct me if Im wrong.So don't be saying untrue ____ about me.....If anything you are the one that's immature because you can't stand the fact that Dallas is what it's becoming.......I'm sorry guys,but this really ticked me off................

ughhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

C2H was simply came to the realization that he was getting into a conversation/argument over something trivial with YOU. see i'm about to do it too!

[Dallasboi]

C2H was simply came to the realization that he was getting into a conversation/argument over something trivial with YOU. see i'm about to do it too!

All I did was stated the obvious....."It take two min at the most...to walk from Hooters to the west End"....it was not up for debate.It was a statement.

[tamtagon]

I cant believe you dorks are still bitching about it.