Dallas's Victory Project Vs. HPavilions/East Downtown Development

[Houston19514]

Well I can confidently tell you as someone working in the building industry here in Dallas that the Victory tower is well underway. They have been drilling piers on the site for the past few weeks, both in the garage section and the area of the tower.

^Well possibly once the building comes to surface level in a few months you will then believe.

Hey, slfunk, it's been three months . . . Any photos for us of the tower structure coming to surface? I'm ready to believe!

[Dallasboi]

Hey, slfunk, it's been three months . . . Any photos for us of the tower structure coming to surface? I'm ready to believe!

There are none.....But however the garage is above surface now......

[RedScare]

Looks like it will be awhile before this becomes Dallas Times Square. If there isn't a game or event in AAC, it is a ghost town.

[713 To 214]

I went to the Erykah Badu Concert last night. She gave a great performance. Because she's a proud Dallas native, it was fitting that she christen the stage with her show. The House of Blues - Dallas is a nice venue, and will be a wonderful addition for Dallas and Victory. Lots of activity around Victory after the concert.

[Dallasboi]

Looks like it will be awhile before this becomes Dallas Times Square. If there isn't a game or event in AAC, it is a ghost town.

Your statement is totally true..............But let it be known that alot of the key elements are not yet in place and yes indeed this will be jumping when all the peices fall together.So right now it's getting better at a snails pace but believe me it will pick up and when it does.......evreybody will know. >

[Houston19514]

Your statement is totally true..............But let it be known that alot of the key elements are not yet in place and yes indeed this will be jumping when all the peices fall together.So right now it's getting better at a snails pace but believe me it will pick up and when it does.......evreybody will know. >

I recognize that the Victory development is not complete. I'm just curious, what are the "key elements" that are not yet in place, and when do you imagine they will be in place so that Victory will "be jumping"?

[TexasStar]

I recognize that the Victory development is not complete. I'm just curious, what are the "key elements" that are not yet in place, and when do you imagine they will be in place so that Victory will "be jumping"?

Victory Tower/Mandarin Oriental Hotel (43 stories)

275,000 sq ft office space, 120 Hotel Rooms, 90 condos, 75,000 sq ft retail

The Cirque Apartments (28 stories)

252 apartments, 75,000 sq ft retail

The House Condominiums (28 stories)

150 condos, 30,000 sq ft retail

One Victory Park (20 stories)

450,000 sq ft office, 20,000 sq ft retail

Two Victory Park (20 stories)

450,000 sq ft office, 20,000 sq ft retail

Hopefully, that will add some "jump" to it.

[Dallasboi]

Victory Tower/Mandarin Oriental Hotel (43 stories)

275,000 sq ft office space, 120 Hotel Rooms, 90 condos, 75,000 sq ft retail

The Cirque Apartments (28 stories)

252 apartments, 75,000 sq ft retail

The House Condominiums (28 stories)

150 condos, 30,000 sq ft retail

One Victory Park (20 stories)

450,000 sq ft office, 20,000 sq ft retail

Two Victory Park (20 stories)

450,000 sq ft office, 20,000 sq ft retail

Hopefully, that will add some "jump" to it.

thanx

thanx

And don't forget, when the dart rail begin to frequent the victory station(reg. access) then it will also be fully accessable which = more foot traffic......................that always adds a buzz.....Any more questions..........

[musicman]

And don't forget, when the dart rail begin to frequent the victory station(reg. access) then it will also be fully accessable which = more foot traffic

so without the train people can't access it easily?

[Dallascaper]

so without the train people can't access it easily?

Maybe yes, maybe no. I guess it depends if you consider "fully accessible" to be the same as easily accessible. I don't use light rail, so it makes no nevermind to me.

[Analog]

so without the train people can't access it easily?

No, access to Victory is very easy without the train.

------

Victory is mostly a construction zone still. It's obvious that activity will pick up when construction slows down. Most people would prefer not to live/work where there's that much disruptive activity.

[musicman]

No, access to Victory is very easy without the train.

ah ok...Dalllasboi must be confused.

[Trae]

Victory Tower/Mandarin Oriental Hotel (43 stories)

275,000 sq ft office space, 120 Hotel Rooms, 90 condos, 75,000 sq ft retail

The Cirque Apartments (28 stories)

252 apartments, 75,000 sq ft retail

The House Condominiums (28 stories)

150 condos, 30,000 sq ft retail

One Victory Park (20 stories)

450,000 sq ft office, 20,000 sq ft retail

Two Victory Park (20 stories)

450,000 sq ft office, 20,000 sq ft retail

Hopefully, that will add some "jump" to it.

Are they close to Victory?

[JasonDFW]

Are they close to Victory?

They're all in Victory. In fact Cirque is on the right edge of Red's photo.

Jason

[rantanamo]

To be clear, there are only two building I'd considered completely open and fully occupied; The W and the AAC. Some of the Plaza businesses are open and one of the shorter(Terrace or Vista) is open to renters on some floors. I'm sure it will be fine in time.

As for access, its easy to drive to, but make no mistake, its not the easiest place to park. I actually like that. One usually ends up having to walk around to do things and that's usually parking in the West End.

[Mister X]

As for access, its easy to drive to, but make no mistake, its not the easiest place to park. I actually like that. One usually ends up having to walk around to do things and that's usually parking in the West End.

Sounds like a lot more trouble than it's worth. Maybe that has something to do with the dead zone atmosphere in Red's photo. Walk around and do things - don't make me laugh.

[Houston19514]

To be clear, there are only two building I'd considered completely open and fully occupied; The W and the AAC. Some of the Plaza businesses are open and one of the shorter(Terrace or Vista) is open to renters on some floors. I'm sure it will be fine in time.

As for access, its easy to drive to, but make no mistake, its not the easiest place to park. I actually like that. One usually ends up having to walk around to do things and that's usually parking in the West End.

I believe the Terrace is condos, not rentals. And both of the shorter buildings (Terrace and Vista) have retail open on the ground floors already (at least according to Victory's website. Are you sure both buildings don't have residences available already? From what I can find online, it would appear they both do.

The parking situation should be greatly improved when that giant parking garage currently under construction in the center of Victory is opened for business.

thanx

And don't forget, when the dart rail begin to frequent the victory station(reg. access) then it will also be fully accessable which = more foot traffic......................that always adds a buzz.....Any more questions..........

So, bottom line... it looks like at least another year, more likely 2+ years before Victory is "jumping".

[tamtagon]

So, bottom line... it looks like at least another year, more likely 2+ years before Victory is "jumping".

Ya, I'd say more likely 2+ years. It's maddening how big developments like this whip up all kinds of attention, then slip in the footnote, 'ready in a couple years, folks.'

[troyboy]

I've been to Victory several times. From what I can tell, Victory does very well at lunch, and is very popular on non-game weekend nights. On a nice day, like today, the patios are quite popular and there seems to be people milling around all the time. If that picture was taken most any day during the last few weeks when its been rainy and/or cloudy, the area would be dead. Since I live downtown, I alway just walk over there, but the construction situation makes driving in the area very confusing and there's little parking. Once the construction dies, getting down there will be much easier. This is Texas so God forbid someone would have to walk someplace.

[Dallasboi]

ah ok...Dalllasboi must be confused.

No.........what I'm saying is more people who don't have cars or who don't desire to use them will have a viable option to use the train.As of now its not an option.For example:The mockingbird station...............alot of poeple may drive to it ,but on the other hand alot more would probably ride dart and get off at the mockingbird station.

[Analog]

No.........what I'm saying is more people who don't have cars or who don't desire to use them will have a viable option to use the train.As of now its not an option.For example:The mockingbird station...............alot of poeple may drive to it ,but on the other hand alot more would probably ride dart and get off at the mockingbird station.

For the record, I agree you're not confused. On a side note, it's amazing how people who have never been to Victory try and draw conclusions from what looks like pin-hole camera photos... or photos with extraordinarily limited views of the landscape.

[RedScare]

For the record, I agree you're not confused. On a side note, it's amazing how people who have never been to Victory try and draw conclusions from what looks like pin-hole camera photos... or photos with extraordinarily limited views of the landscape.

For the record, the screen shot I posted is WFAA's webcam. I checked it periodically up until it got too dark to see. Only saw one person in any of the views. Seldom did I see a car on the street, either. If the view of the plaza in front of WFAA's studio is a bad view, I suggest you address your complaint to WFAA...it's their camera.

FWIW, I've never known ANY ballpark or arena to be a hotspot on non-gameday. Maybe Dallas is different, but no one has proven it with anything other than snarky comments.

Here's the webcam, for those who are interested.

http://www.wfaa.com/cams/victory/

At 9:32 pm...still empty.

[musicman]

At 9:32 pm...still empty.

9:45 PM...still empty

[Gary]

9:45 PM...still empty

10:40 and still empty. Wait, I think I see Batman!

[Gary]

11:08 and the place is like a "Dawn of the Dead" movie, except there are actually people in that movie, so nevermind.

[rantanamo]

LOL, I was watching the live news report from there at 10. It wasn't empty. In fact there were people all over the plaza with a decent crowd watching the news. I'm betting they move the 10pm news there full time as the development grows. I know its a funny jab to use towards Dallas, but just taking a quick walk through, you can see that place will eventually be very busy. It just looks like a big dusty construction project as of yesterday. If you haven't been down to it lately, the forest of tower cranes is impressive. The numbers of cranes in that immediate area even more crazy.

[Gary]

LOL, I was watching the live news report from there at 10. It wasn't empty. In fact there were people all over the plaza with a decent crowd watching the news. I'm betting they move the 10pm news there full time as the development grows. I know its a funny jab to use towards Dallas, but just taking a quick walk through, you can see that place will eventually be very busy. It just looks like a big dusty construction project as of yesterday. If you haven't been down to it lately, the forest of tower cranes is impressive. The numbers of cranes in that immediate area even more crazy.

According to the WFAA website there camera's are updated every 5 minutes, so you were obviously watching something different than we were. After Red posted the camera link (9:32pm), I watched the Plaza several times and there was nobody to be found.

[Analog]

For the record, the screen shot I posted is WFAA's webcam. I checked it periodically up until it got too dark to see. Only saw one person in any of the views. Seldom did I see a car on the street, either. If the view of the plaza in front of WFAA's studio is a bad view, I suggest you address your complaint to WFAA...it's their camera.

FWIW, I've never known ANY ballpark or arena to be a hotspot on non-gameday. Maybe Dallas is different, but no one has proven it with anything other than snarky comments.

Here's the webcam, for those who are interested.

http://www.wfaa.com/cams/victory/

At 9:32 pm...still empty.

Lol, my point stands. It's basically a pin-hole webcam shot with incredibly limited site into the Victory project. The offices in that plaza were just completed. There's barely been anytime for people to move in. The building to the right is high rise residential still under construction (that means there's no one living there to be walking around!) Most Victory buildings are still under construction. Your assumptions are entertaining.

[Gary]

Lol, my point stands. It's basically a pin-hole webcam shot with incredibly limited site into the Victory project. The offices in that plaza were just completed. There's barely been anytime for people to move in. The building to the right is high rise residential still under construction (that means there's no one living there to be walking around!) Most Victory buildings are still under construction. Your assumptions are entertaining.

You Dallas guys are contradicting each other. First Rantanamo laughs and tells us that the "Pin hole" camera doesn't get to the part of the plaza with all of the people which is a crock. Now you say that people will come once a residential tower is completed. While the people may eventually come, they are not there as Rantanamo claims. If they are, then there all congregating in a 50 square foot area.

If you want to see a place that is actually downtown, and has a night life, come to DT Houston's Main street. That of course brings us to the original point of this thread, which is... Houston already has a built in crowd for the Pavillions. And since you guy's are making Victory predictions, I'll make the prediction (which others have already made) that when the Pavillions are finished, Dt Houston will blow Victory out of the water.

[Ethanra]

1:15 on a beautiful Sat. afternoon, not a single person in the shot.