Midtown Streetscape Improvements

[pokemonizepic]

some pictures of caroline st from yesterday 

[j_cuevas713]

This may be taking forever but the finished product is going to be great

[hindesky]

[X.R.]

@hindeskyfor that drainage, are they trying to get water to flow into the system faster?

I ask because as an additional reason for this taking so long, on top of the reasons listed in this thread, is potentially that they wanted to make as direct a connection to the large underground drainage pipes in the area. Did this area flood? The reason I bring it up is that when they corrected the big street dip on la branch in the museum area I was talking to the city contractors, and they said part of the reason some of the recent projects take a bit longer is because midway through the approval process for the la branch upgrade/fix, so about a year ago, the city looked at where water was flowing in each area around DT and decided to make as direct a connection as possible to the larger underground pipes. Thats why for the three recently redone corners in the museum district have grates/drains that look like the picture above. 

Just food for thought. I rode my bike through the area on Sunday, and man Midtown is going to have some significantly verdant areas after this is done.

[Ross]

35 minutes ago, X.R. said:

@hindeskyfor that drainage, are they trying to get water to flow into the system faster?

I ask because as an additional reason for this taking so long, on top of the reasons listed in this thread, is potentially that they wanted to make as direct a connection to the large underground drainage pipes in the area. Did this area flood? The reason I bring it up is that when they corrected the big street dip on la branch in the museum area I was talking to the city contractors, and they said part of the reason some of the recent projects take a bit longer is because midway through the approval process for the la branch upgrade/fix, so about a year ago, the city looked at where water was flowing in each area around DT and decided to make as direct a connection as possible to the larger underground pipes. Thats why for the three recently redone corners in the museum district have grates/drains that look like the picture above. 

Just food for thought. I rode my bike through the area on Sunday, and man Midtown is going to have some significantly verdant areas after this is done.

That part of Midtown flooded during Allison in 2001, but I think that was due to the overall huge amount of water that fell. Once the freeway filled up, there was no other place for the water to go except into the townhouses.

[dbigtex56]

47 minutes ago, X.R. said:

@hindeskyfor that drainage, are they trying to get water to flow into the system faster?

I ask because as an additional reason for this taking so long, on top of the reasons listed in this thread, is potentially that they wanted to make as direct a connection to the large underground drainage pipes in the area. Did this area flood? The reason I bring it up is that when they corrected the big street dip on la branch in the museum area I was talking to the city contractors, and they said part of the reason some of the recent projects take a bit longer is because midway through the approval process for the la branch upgrade/fix, so about a year ago, the city looked at where water was flowing in each area around DT and decided to make as direct a connection as possible to the larger underground pipes. Thats why for the three recently redone corners in the museum district have grates/drains that look like the picture above. 

Just food for thought. I rode my bike through the area on Sunday, and man Midtown is going to have some significantly verdant areas after this is done.

They're raingardens. According to macmillandictionary.com 

"A raingarden is a garden area deliberately planted in order to deal with the water which runs off roofs, driveways and other hard surfaces in periods of heavy rain. ... They often contain flower or vegetable beds with underlying sandy soil which helps water filter away."
In other words, they help filter road oils and other forms of pollution from storm water before it's drained into the bayous.
Plantings will include cypress trees and native irises.
 

[j_cuevas713]

I love cypress trees. They transition through the year beautifully. 

[BEES?!]

1 hour ago, j_cuevas713 said:

I love cypress trees. They transition through the year beautifully. 

So true, they are such amazingly tall and majestic trees, too! 

[corbs315]

That lot across from W&M looks like it's finally getting cleared out. It's been full of Construction Stuff for the last several years.

[Brooklyn173]

Plantings at the bioswale are going in as well as bricks on the walkway.

[dbigtex56]

The new streetlights are finally in service. 
Well, some of them. Don't want to rush things....

 

[004n063]

Here are some pictures of the basically-finished product. 

 

Some thoughts:

 

1) The sidewalks are great. 10/10.

 

2) I love the emphasis on trees and vegetation. It'll be a while before we get shade from them, but as the street develops, it'll only get better. 10/10

 

3) The recessed parking and unprotected, semi-door-zone bike lane on the less-shady side of the street are not huge problems right now, especially since the generally excellent Austin St. corridor is only a block away. But it still feels tacked on and potentially problematic as the development intensity increases. 5/10. 

 

All in all, I think the city has done a pretty good job with this redesign, and would take fifty more just like it around Midtown and Downtown in a heartbeat.

[cspwal]

The bike lanes do feel tacked on - it felt like they had a design similar to Bagby then decided to put a bike lane in last minute.  It does provide a nicer tire changing experience when you have a protected bike lane between you and the escalade doing 45

[004n063]

5 hours ago, cspwal said:

The bike lanes do feel tacked on - it felt like they had a design similar to Bagby then decided to put a bike lane in last minute.  It does provide a nicer tire changing experience when you have a protected bike lane between you and the escalade doing 45

Yeah, luckily I think Caroline will remain relatively slow south of Webster, but I really hate lanes like this because they feel simultaneously obligatory and less safe than taking the lane.

[cspwal]

At least it has a buffer between the car lanes and the bike lane.  The Bagby redo in downtown is really the best way to do it - there's enough room for bikes to coexist with pedestrians and be fully separated from traffic.  Barring that, having the buffer have a concrete curb is good as it is a real barrier from cars using the bike lane as impromptu parking

[Texasota]

but... the Caroline bike lane *doesn't* have a buffer except at some intersections.

[004n063]

23 hours ago, Texasota said:

but... the Caroline bike lane *doesn't* have a buffer except at some intersections.

Moreover, parked cars have to pull out through the bike lane.

The downtown Bagby cycle track is lovely, of course, but it took a long time and a lot of money to build, only to give us a single kilometer. I think the Austin St. and Waugh/Commonwealth styles are the way to go. Nothing fancy, broadly safe.

Just don't do it the way they did on Lawndale, ..

[editor]

11 hours ago, 004n063 said:

parked cars have to pull out through the bike lane.

I saw some interesting parking once.

Apparently, it used to be a thing from the 40's through to the 60's in mid-sized Midwest cities that the street parking would be in the middle of the street, usually angled. 

There are a few cities that still have that on their main streets.

I wonder if that would be something to try in Midtown.  Seems to me like it solves the problem of keeping parked cars and bicycles away from one another, and also serves as a speed-calming method.

A quick Duck shows that it's being brought back in Philadelphia as an experiment, though not the same way as I saw in the Midwest:

 

 

[gnu]

An example in Pearland

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.562643,-95.2836617,177m/data=!3m1!1e3

40 minutes ago, editor said:

"parking would be in the middle of the street, usually angled. "

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by gnu
forgot the link

[Texasota]

Eh, it never went away in Philadelphia (especially South Philly).

I've seen in the suburbs of Berlin as well.

I have ...mixed feelings about it, but in Midtown I don't think its solving a real problem. The Austin and Gray bike lanes work great - using the parking as part of the protection *for* the bike lanes (as long as there's also a buffer to prevent dooring) works great when it's well implemented.

[Houston19514]

5 hours ago, editor said:

I saw some interesting parking once.

Apparently, it used to be a thing from the 40's through to the 60's in mid-sized Midwest cities that the street parking would be in the middle of the street, usually angled. 

There are a few cities that still have that on their main streets.

I wonder if that would be something to try in Midtown.  Seems to me like it solves the problem of keeping parked cars and bicycles away from one another, and also serves as a speed-calming method.

A quick Duck shows that it's being brought back in Philadelphia as an experiment, though not the same way as I saw in the Midwest:

 

 

We already have this in Midtown, where the parallel parking spaces separate the traffic lanes from the bike lane.

[editor]

4 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

We already have this in Midtown, where the parallel parking spaces separate the traffic lanes from the bike lane.

Not the same thing.  I'm talking about cars being parked in the middle of the street, with two lanes of traffic moving on either side of them.

[dbigtex56]

On 10/18/2022 at 8:02 AM, editor said:

Apparently, it used to be a thing from the 40's through to the 60's in mid-sized Midwest cities that the street parking would be in the middle of the street, usually angled. 

I'm still unclear as to how this would work. In which direction are the cars angled? or does it switch from one block to the next? Unless these are one-way streets this could put a driver going the wrong way at a severe disadvantage.

[Ross]

2 hours ago, dbigtex56 said:

I'm still unclear as to how this would work. In which direction are the cars angled? or does it switch from one block to the next? Unless these are one-way streets this could put a driver going the wrong way at a severe disadvantage.

The parking would be angled so that drivers would pull into the spaces on their left. No need for one way streets

--------------------------------------------------------

lane headed to the left

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Parking

Lane headed to right

----------------------------------------------------------

Drivers pull into spaces on the left(driver's side), then back out when leaving

[Texasota]

But why? I've never liked this setup on streets that have it, and there's plenty of space to have bike lanes protected by a door buffer and parking. 

*Maybe* if forces drivers to slow down because you have other drivers (the only kind of pedestrian most drivers even pretend to respect) walking from the middle of the street to the sidewalk? 

Eh, I'm not a fan. I don't like it in South Philly, and I don't think it's the best approach in midtown.

[phillip_white]

1 hour ago, Texasota said:

*Maybe* if forces drivers to slow down because you have other drivers (the only kind of pedestrian most drivers even pretend to respect) walking from the middle of the street to the sidewalk? 

12 hours ago, Ross said:

The parking would be angled so that drivers would pull into the spaces on their left. No need for one way streets

I actually really like the esplanade-esque parking idea, except with a bike lane added. It holds everyone accountable. Of course it would only work on wide, two-way streets but maybe those are exactly the type of streets you would want them on. Think South Congress in Austin or Washington Ave in Houston.

---------------------------------------------------
                             sidewalk
---------------------------------------------------
                  <---    car lane   <---
----------------------------------------------------

/            /            /            /            /            /            /           
                                parking
/            /            /            /            /            /            /           
----------------------------------------------------
                        protected bike lane
----------------------------------------------------
/            /            /            /            /            /            /           
                                parking
/            /            /            /            /            /            /   
---------------------------------------------------
                  --->    car lane  --->
---------------------------------------------------
                                sidewalk
----------------------------------------------------

                                                                          *not to scale

Edited October 20, 2022 by phillip_white

[rechlin]

On 10/19/2022 at 7:01 PM, dbigtex56 said:

I'm still unclear as to how this would work. In which direction are the cars angled? or does it switch from one block to the next? Unless these are one-way streets this could put a driver going the wrong way at a severe disadvantage.

Downtown Fort Collins, Colorado does this.  See Google Street View:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5879767,-105.0771343,3a,75y,158.63h,81.78t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1so9NMTPh1gSqGszM9Ynro7w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Do9NMTPh1gSqGszM9Ynro7w%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D353.94254%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

[Houston19514]

So, after parking, one is expected to cross traffic in the middle of the street?  (and of course again when returning to one's car)?

[Ross]

51 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

So, after parking, one is expected to cross traffic in the middle of the street?  (and of course again when returning to one's car)?

Sure. it's not that hard to do, especially since the one lane street helps with traffic calming and keeping speeds down. Look both ways and carefully cross the street.

[hindesky]