Camden Conte: Multifamily At 1515 Austin St.

[UtterlyUrban]

1 hour ago, Purdueenginerd said:

This makes me curious how that can be sustained other than through corporate deals. It seems like theres not a lot of condo's within downtown and I feel like that would balance out these units a bit. When property owners start renting out their own units, I'm sure the market would get more competitive. $6000 a month, for a rental-- and its not even a house. Like wow. I could stay in a hotel for $200 a night (200*30 = $6000), and someone would at least do my sheets every day. 

A quick HAR rental search for downtown highrises show an 800 sq ft one bedroom at $2300 per month and larger units up to $6000 at th new place near market square.  OPP did not have any listings. Nor did catalyst.  I have previously been told that the rates shown above are "market" for a "new" downtown highrise.

 

 

[jmitch94]

3 hours ago, EllenOlenska said:

They must be pretty damned big, then. 

 

Up to 3,500 SF. 

[ajgallion]

On 8/2/2017 at 10:11 AM, Purdueenginerd said:

This makes me curious how that can be sustained other than through corporate deals. It seems like theres not a lot of condo's within downtown and I feel like that would balance out these units a bit. When property owners start renting out their own units, I'm sure the market would get more competitive. $6000 a month, for a rental-- and its not even a house. Like wow. I could stay in a hotel for $200 a night (200*30 = $6000), and someone would at least do my sheets every day. 

Houston rents are getting out of control. Land downtown is not that valuable. I can find the same rent prices for apartments in downtown Los Angeles and they at least have multiple grocery stores and a Target to walk to.

[UtterlyUrban]

8 hours ago, ajgallion said:

Houston rents are getting out of control. Land downtown is not that valuable. I can find the same rent prices for apartments in downtown Los Angeles and they at least have multiple grocery stores and a Target to walk to.

Keep in mind that a number of factors need to be compared between States when determining the price of housing.  California has an ugly  income tax.  Texas has an ugly real estate tax.  Why does that matter?  Only The real estate tax shows up more directly in the form of higher rental rates for apartments and lower sales prices for homes. 

 

To properly compare housing prices/rents in an income tax State to a Real Estate tax State, one needs to adjust for this difference.

Edited August 4, 2017 by UtterlyUrban

[cloud713]

On 8/2/2017 at 11:00 AM, jmitch94 said:

I had heard, don't quote me one this, that the penthouses in OPP can be between $10-$15,000. That's like buying a house every year. 

 

Out of the 4 penthouses in Market Square Tower, only the westward facing penthouse is still available, at a cost of $18,715 a month.

[Timoric]

2 hours ago, cloud713 said:

 

Out of the 4 penthouses in Market Square Tower, only the westward facing penthouse is still available, at a cost of $18,715 a month.

 

[Twinsanity02]

1 hour ago, Timoric said:

 

The extended version is also humorous. It presses many stereotype of the very rich.

[UtterlyUrban]

7 hours ago, cloud713 said:

 

Out of the 4 penthouses in Market Square Tower, only the westward facing penthouse is still available, at a cost of $18,715 a month.

Woof!

[Sunstar]

How is it the downtown living initiative managed to avoid providing affordable housing? Isn't this tax payer supported?

[Twinsanity02]

What are the rents for the Hamilton, block 334 or the other non-highrise apartments? Anyone know? 

[cspwal]

Block 334 is ~$1600/mo for a one bedroom

[cspwal]

I found the DLI info.  Here are the requirements:

• "Participating developers will be expected to preserve or replace streetscapes to a level equivalent to or exceeding the existing upgraded level."
• "Only residential projects generating ten (10) or more new dwelling units will be considered; this includes adaptive reuse of existing buildings."
• "The project is designed to support an enhanced pedestrian environment in accordance with criteria specified in the Guidelines."
• "Any approved agreement shall terminate if project does not commence construction within one year or obtain Certificate of Occupancy within three years of approval of agreement by HDMD or DRA board. "

There's no affordable housing requirement.  There's also no GFR requirement, which I though was required

[Houston19514]

21 hours ago, cspwal said:

I found the DLI info.  Here are the requirements:

• "Participating developers will be expected to preserve or replace streetscapes to a level equivalent to or exceeding the existing upgraded level."
• "Only residential projects generating ten (10) or more new dwelling units will be considered; this includes adaptive reuse of existing buildings."
• "The project is designed to support an enhanced pedestrian environment in accordance with criteria specified in the Guidelines."
• "Any approved agreement shall terminate if project does not commence construction within one year or obtain Certificate of Occupancy within three years of approval of agreement by HDMD or DRA board. "

There's no affordable housing requirement.  There's also no GFR requirement, which I though was required

 

It's apparently something less than an absolute requirement, but the GFR is covered by the design guidelines.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Houston19514

[H-Town Man]

23 hours ago, Sunstar said:

How is it the downtown living initiative managed to avoid providing affordable housing? Isn't this tax payer supported?

 

Welcome to Houston. I've never heard much talk of affordable housing here, I think because the City is so affordable in general. We lack in the image department, not the cost of living department, hence taxpayer subsidies for high dollar highrise residences.

[Sunstar]

2 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Welcome to Houston. I've never heard much talk of affordable housing here, I think because the City is so affordable in general. We lack in the image department, not the cost of living department, hence taxpayer subsidies for high dollar highrise residences.

 

i guess the idea was to get someone living downtown, anyone really. They've succeeded in that they've tapped into a demand for downtown living. I'm not saying they need section 8 housing, but something affordable to working class families would be nice. Especially since there are still so many undeveloped lots downtown, especially north of the ball park and south of the GRB. 

[Sunstar]

22 hours ago, Twinsanity02 said:

What are the rents for the Hamilton, block 334 or the other non-highrise apartments? Anyone know? 

 

Looks like the cheapest floor plan at the Hamilton is $1455 for 760 sq feet.

[Texasota]

It looks like you can actually get into Skyhouse for cheaper, albeit with a smaller unit.

 

The thing is, today's affordable housing is yesterday's luxury housing. It is very difficult to make new housing that's genuinely affordable to people. I actually think the DLI is great because it incentivized new housing in an area where it was unlikely to result in the replacement of existing affordable housing with new luxury stock. It just created more housing overall.

 

It will be interesting to see how these buildings age. I kinda think the Skyhouses are the best overall - they're actually borderline affordable now, and, since they're not just stick construction, are likely to still be going strong well after their initial construction costs have been absorbed. 

[cspwal]

22 hours ago, Texasota said:

It looks like you can actually get into Skyhouse for cheaper, albeit with a smaller unit.

 

The thing is, today's affordable housing is yesterday's luxury housing. It is very difficult to make new housing that's genuinely affordable to people. I actually think the DLI is great because it incentivized new housing in an area where it was unlikely to result in the replacement of existing affordable housing with new luxury stock. It just created more housing overall.

 

It will be interesting to see how these buildings age. I kinda think the Skyhouses are the best overall - they're actually borderline affordable now, and, since they're not just stick construction, are likely to still be going strong well after their initial construction costs have been absorbed. 

 

Case in point: Houston House is now below $1000 for pretty much all the 1 bedroom floor plans

[Sunstar]

On 8/6/2017 at 11:08 AM, Texasota said:

It looks like you can actually get into Skyhouse for cheaper, albeit with a smaller unit.

 

The thing is, today's affordable housing is yesterday's luxury housing. It is very difficult to make new housing that's genuinely affordable to people. I actually think the DLI is great because it incentivized new housing in an area where it was unlikely to result in the replacement of existing affordable housing with new luxury stock. It just created more housing overall.

 

It will be interesting to see how these buildings age. I kinda think the Skyhouses are the best overall - they're actually borderline affordable now, and, since they're not just stick construction, are likely to still be going strong well after their initial construction costs have been absorbed. 

 

One approach to cheaper housing downtown would be to cut back on amenities like pools, gyms, dedicated parking garages, etc. If someone is looking to live downtown cheaply, they would probably be willing to forgo some of these. Downtown is a central transit hub between rail and bus, so I can't imagine a car is a necessity. 

[BeerNut]

Not downtown but Midmain is a development centered around easy  access to transit.  People love amenities even though some go barely used.  My gf joked about how people would ohhh and ahh over media/theater rooms when doing tours but tenants never used them.

[htownbro]

3 hours ago, cspwal said:

 

Case in point: Houston House is now below $1000 for pretty much all the 1 bedroom floor plans

 

 

Really I may consider moving downtown!!!!  I'm paying right at 1000.00 for 1 bedroom in Galleria area

[cspwal]

2 hours ago, htownbro said:

 

 

Really I may consider moving downtown!!!!  I'm paying right at 1000.00 for 1 bedroom in Galleria area

Warning: they currently are renovating, so they have free mandatory valet parking (or an offsite garage) and the pool is closed.  But it is a good deal

[UtterlyUrban]

Is Houston House fully fire protected (sprinklers) in all units?  

[H-Town Man]

The fact that these buildings are going forward indicates to me that lease-up at the DLI buildings finished so far must be moving along fairly well. These decisions are made with all available intel and detailed market projections. This is the first really positive news about the high-end residential market we've seen after all the news about 3 month rent concessions. Residential seems to be doing much better than office.

 

[Angostura]

On 8/5/2017 at 10:19 AM, Sunstar said:

How is it the downtown living initiative managed to avoid providing affordable housing? Isn't this tax payer supported?

 

People in need of affordable housing were not the demographic DLI was hoping to attract.

 

Also, commercial rents kind of establish a price floor below which it doesn't make sense to build residential. If a developer can get $30/sf for Class A commercial space, that's roughly the equivalent of $2500/month for a 1000-sf apartment. As residential and commercial rates fluctuate relative to one another, the mix of new development should shift accordingly.

[H-Town Man]

24 minutes ago, Angostura said:

 

People in need of affordable housing were not the demographic DLI was hoping to attract.

 

Also, commercial rents kind of establish a price floor below which it doesn't make sense to build residential. If a developer can get $30/sf for Class A commercial space, that's roughly the equivalent of $2500/month for a 1000-sf apartment. As residential and commercial rates fluctuate relative to one another, the mix of new development should shift accordingly.

 

I think he means, how was the city politically able to subsidize residential development without making the developers promise a certain amount of affordable housing. Since this is normally what cities do across the U.S. when they intervene in residential development.

 

Of course affordable housing in a place like downtown does not make sense from a purely economic standpoint. That's why cities typically intervene and give tax breaks - to make happen what wouldn't otherwise happen.

 

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I think he means, how was the city politically able to subsidize residential development without making the developers promise a certain amount of affordable housing. Since this is normally what cities do across the U.S. when they intervene in residential development.

 

Of course affordable housing in a place like downtown does not make sense from a purely economic standpoint. That's why cities typically intervene and give tax breaks - to make happen what wouldn't otherwise happen.

 

 

It almost certainly would have taken a lot larger subsidies to get affordable housing in the deal. I doubt you'll find many (if any) downtown residential developments (in a downtown anything like Houston's) across the U.S. that provided affordable housing with a subsidy rate of only $15,000 per unit.

[cspwal]

On 8/7/2017 at 5:32 PM, UtterlyUrban said:

Is Houston House fully fire protected (sprinklers) in all units?  

Yes it is - though I suspect the old days inn isn't anymore 

[H-Town Man]

6 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

It almost certainly would have taken a lot larger subsidies to get affordable housing in the deal. I doubt you'll find many (if any) downtown residential developments (in a downtown anything like Houston's) across the U.S. that provided affordable housing with a subsidy rate of only $15,000 per unit.

 

Likely not $15,000 per subsidized unit, but $15,000 per unit spread across the whole building, with a requirement that 10% of units be affordable? I have no idea if that would work, and haven't really studied affordable housing.

 

[Houston19514]

Just now, H-Town Man said:

 

Likely not $15,000 per subsidized unit, but $15,000 per unit spread across the whole building, with a requirement that 10% of units be affordable? I have no idea if that would work, and haven't really studied affordable housing.

 

 

I haven't studied it much, but have looked at some examples primarily in Dallas.  $15,000 doesn't even come close.