Highway 59 - 610 Interchange Partial Rebuild

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

it will fix itself once the new 59 South exit ramp is finished and opened

[Highrise Tower]

The left lanes were closed tonight. They are hanging the freeway signage this weekend.  Bellaire & Evergreen exit.

[Highrise Tower]

[MaxConcrete]

Driving on the new 610NB-69SB ramp  High res

This view shows the two ramps being demolished, 610NB-69SB in the foreground and 610SB-69NB in the background  High res

View of the old 610SB-69NB being demolished  High res

Edited March 6, 2021 by MaxConcrete

[Highrise Tower]

5 hours ago, MaxConcrete said:

Driving on the new 610NB-69SB ramp  High res

[Highrise Tower]

[Triton]

Can't wait until they open up the two lanes from 610 south to 69 south. I avoided 610 from time to time but now I avoid it at all costs. 

[BigFootsSocks]

As long as they keep the right lane for 69 north only. They finally did that I guess for construction and it's sped things up a little bit.

[Highrise Tower]

610 at Richmond.

[Highrise Tower]

[por favor gracias]

Hopefully, the finished product will change my opinion on this, but to say I don't like the current configuration of the 610 southbound to 59 would be a massive understatement. As it is now, there is one lane to exit 59 northbound. I really hope we will end up with two lanes exiting there (one exit only) and another two lanes exiting for 59 southbound (one exit only). Otherwise, this is going to be a fiasco.

Also, I just don't get how they get away with having 6 years to work on a project as intrusive on our daily lives as this. This is the busiest intersection in the Southwestern United States, and one of the busiest intersections in North America. The entire 23 mile stretch of the Katy Freeway (the world's widest freeway) took 6 years to build, including ramps at 610, Beltway 8 and the Grand Pkwy...plus adding toll lanes and stations. Yet, not only is this taking 6 years to build, they pretty much tore up every part of the intersection one day one. Why not work on one ramp at a time...tear up that area, put like 200 guys out there...get it done in a week or two and then move on to tear up/redo the next one?

Same goes for how we "manage" our road projects in general. Right now, parts of the West Loop, SW Fwy, South Loop, South Fwy, Gulf Fwy and parts of the Beltway are all simultaneously under construction. Why not put all of those resources on one project at a time...finish that project in a fraction of that time...and then move on to the next project before tearing anything up, much less all of these areas at the same time and for years at a time?

[Highrise Tower]

[por favor gracias]

Got confirmation from a source at TxDOT that the permanent 610 southbound exit ramp to 59 northbound will remain one lane similar to the current configuration, and that lane will be shared with some of the traffic exiting 59 southbound.

If you go to TxDOT's "projects and studies" page on their website, the first paragraph reads:

"Before a project is built, a study must be done to determine if it will fill a transportation need, will not negatively impact the surrounding area and fits the department's overall plan. During the study phase, potential projects are analyzed to determine if they are cost effective, while also efficiently improving mobility."

I'd love to see this "study" that suggests going from two lanes exiting off 610 southbound like we had before this project to one lane will "efficiently improve mobility" and "not negatively impact the surrounding area"...and who approved this design?

This is unacceptable.

[X.R.]

Its super trash. When traffic is really back, its going to be WAY worse than before. You already have people driving on the shoulder now to get to 59N as opposed to waiting in that line with all the 59S traffic. Its absolutely wild.

I see that this junk and I don't know how anyone looks at any TxDot proposal in Houston and go "yeah, this is smart." Plus, it takes forever. This is a tiny intersection and it already has pretty decent amount of work done, and its closing down til 2022.  Houston freeways are eternally under construction and rarely, maybe 1 out of 10 times, does it get any better. 

If I lived in Afton, parts of bellaire, and other areas around 610 by 59, I would be pissed. Because they are about to get flooded with traffic avoiding this nonsense.  

[por favor gracias]

43 minutes ago, X.R. said:

Its super trash. When traffic is really back, its going to be WAY worse than before. You already have people driving on the shoulder now to get to 59N as opposed to waiting in that line with all the 59S traffic. Its absolutely wild.

I see that this junk and I don't know how anyone looks at any TxDot proposal in Houston and go "yeah, this is smart." Plus, it takes forever. This is a tiny intersection and it already has pretty decent amount of work done, and its closing down til 2022.  Houston freeways are eternally under construction and rarely, maybe 1 out of 10 times, does it get any better. 

If I lived in Afton, parts of bellaire, and other areas around 610 by 59, I would be pissed. Because they are about to get flooded with traffic avoiding this nonsense.  

Yep...I'm one of those people. It's actually quicker sometimes to take the Westheimer exit and get onto 59 northbound from the feeder road after Westheimer & W. Alabama than it is to stay on the freeway, especially that right lane.

About a year ago, I had a web conference with five people from TxDOT...although only two of them actually spoke the whole time. I asked them why they don't work on one ramp at a time before tearing up other parts of the freeways and intersection. One of the reps told me that they didn't want their people working on top of the each other for safety reasons. Let me repeat that...one of TxDOT's reps told me that they didn't want their people working on top of each other in response to my "why not work on one ramp at a time" question. When I kindly reminded him that my question takes that into account by default, he told me they have other projects going on simultaneously across the entire state. So I asked why they work on multiple major highway projects at a time just in one city (Houston in this case) as opposed to allocating more of their resources on one project at a time in that city and getting it done in a fraction of the time before starting the next one, and then he "informed" me that we were out of time. All I could think of was what Bill Burr once said...it's like they want to frustrate you enough so you say a curse word or something, so they can have an excuse to hang up on you. 

Like you mentioned, this kind of practice not the exception with TxDOT...it's the norm. It's not a fluke, it's by design. These people aren't stupid. They know exactly what they're doing. After over two decades driving in this town and years worth of experience dealing with TxDOT, it couldn't be clearer to me that this is a racket...and I'm willing to bet there's a ton of hands in that pot. When things that seem easy don't make sense, there's almost always corruption involved. Look at who benefits from poor roads, traffic jams and accidents and tell me with a straight face that I'm insane to think there's a better chance than not that they're getting kickbacks in some way from the automobile, oil & gas, insurance, etc. industries...in the oil & gas capital of the world no less. There's a lot of money to be made from traffic jams and accidents, and when you look at shit like this under the lens of "maybe that's the goal in the first place," TxDOT's actions make a lot more sense.

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by por favor gracias

[rechlin]

Am I remembering wrong, or wasn't the IH-610 southbound to IH-69 northbound ramp formerly 2 lanes?  Cutting it from 2 lanes to 1 lane seems like very backwards thinking.  Though I guess that goes with the views of many here who think that roads should be made smaller to encourage public transit.

And yes, I too have now found that exiting to Westheimer and getting back on to get from 610 south to 69 north is quicker.  I'm pretty sure that's not something that TxDOT wanted to have happen with this project.

i doubt there is a conspiracy here, though; I think it is just incompetence.  Thinking that TxDOT is intentionally doing it so that cronies can profit from accidents is totally ridiculous nonsense.

[samagon]

3 hours ago, por favor gracias said:

Got confirmation from a source at TxDOT that the permanent 610 southbound exit ramp to 59 northbound will remain one lane similar to the current configuration, and that lane will be shared with some of the traffic exiting 59 southbound.

If you go to TxDOT's "projects and studies" page on their website, the first paragraph reads:

"Before a project is built, a study must be done to determine if it will fill a transportation need, will not negatively impact the surrounding area and fits the department's overall plan. During the study phase, potential projects are analyzed to determine if they are cost effective, while also efficiently improving mobility."

I'd love to see this "study" that suggests going from two lanes exiting off 610 southbound like we had before this project to one lane will "efficiently improve mobility" and "not negatively impact the surrounding area"...and who approved this design?

This is unacceptable.

if I recall (and I think it's way near the beginning of this thread) the good homeowners of Afton Oaks fought the original design so that it would be forced to stay within the existing ROW.

so this is probably what we are left with after that fight.

anyway, the last laugh is saved for the doctors who have patients in Afton Oaks, they're going to be the ones who make extra money from the higher rates of asthma occurrence caused by pollution from slower traffic so close to their homes.

at the end of the day, I do support the design needing to stay within the existing ROW, I can't say "well, let's demo some houses here" but then be against the i45 project that I disagree with because (among other things) they need to take houses to make more ROW.

with that being said, we need to have more transit options introduced asap.

edit: I know the question of 'but there were 2 lanes in the space of 1 now' I think this whole process was done to bring the road standards for 59 up to interstate levels so they could call it 69. which includes having wider shoulders, even on interchange lanes, so in order for the ramps to comply with interstate standards, and still fit within the existing ROW, this is what we get.

Edited June 9, 2021 by samagon

[Montrose1100]

19 hours ago, rechlin said:

 

i doubt there is a conspiracy here, though; I think it is just incompetence.  

[Houston19514]

The ramp actually is two lanes.  Yes, only one lane goes from the Loop to the ramp, but what people are apparently not noticing here is that a lot of the traffic coming from Uptown will no longer be getting on to the Loop at all, but going directly to the ramps to I-69.  Works really well.

[texas911]

The only reason for traffic in that area are line cutters.

[JLWM8609]

23 hours ago, rechlin said:

Am I remembering wrong, or wasn't the IH-610 southbound to IH-69 northbound ramp formerly 2 lanes?  

It was and the new ramp is, too. I drove on it on Tuesday and can confirm it's 2 lanes.

[X.R.]

3 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

The ramp actually is two lanes.  Yes, only one lane goes from the Loop to the ramp, but what people are apparently not noticing here is that a lot of the traffic coming from Uptown will no longer be getting on to the Loop at all, but going directly to the ramps to I-69.  Works really well.

I use it everyday and its terrible. It works well, yes, if you exit Westheimer and then use the separate entrance. Once the Galleria/Westheimer/San Felipe street traffic is back to normal, its maybe at 60-70%, I don't know if that'll stay true. But on Saturdays, and any work day from 4-6, its worse than before. 

Its actually excellent, maybe even fantastic, for people leaving the Galleria/Uptown, which I suspect is a bit of the reason for the reconstruction. And yes, as @texas911 notes, the biggest reason is for linecutters, but that's basically everyone that gets in that lane. I'm one of the comparative few that takes it North, so its maddening to sit there and watch it unfold as 20-30 cars sit behind the person trying to cut. And like half of the line behind that car are also trying to cut as well. I've had more close calls in terms of "is he/she going to hit me?" since that opened than I did in the 4 years before.

Edit: not trying to be aggressive or anything, its just the 59S flow has always been greater than the 59N and the construction did nothing to address that and in fact made it worse for both. Going 59S is just as slow if not worse. It may be faster slightly for the 59N crew, but it comes with constant slamming on your brakes as the car in front of you is trying to cut the line with no signal. I'd rather go slow. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by X.R.

[cspwal]

On 6/9/2021 at 12:55 PM, rechlin said:

Am I remembering wrong, or wasn't the IH-610 southbound to IH-69 northbound ramp formerly 2 lanes?  Cutting it from 2 lanes to 1 lane seems like very backwards thinking.  Though I guess that goes with the views of many here who think that roads should be made smaller to encourage public transit.

you would have to pair it with vastly improved public transportation that would serve that path - which is only in the concept & early design phase.

[por favor gracias]

On 6/9/2021 at 12:55 PM, rechlin said:

Am I remembering wrong, or wasn't the IH-610 southbound to IH-69 northbound ramp formerly 2 lanes?  Cutting it from 2 lanes to 1 lane seems like very backwards thinking.  Though I guess that goes with the views of many here who think that roads should be made smaller to encourage public transit.

And yes, I too have now found that exiting to Westheimer and getting back on to get from 610 south to 69 north is quicker.  I'm pretty sure that's not something that TxDOT wanted to have happen with this project.

i doubt there is a conspiracy here, though; I think it is just incompetence.  Thinking that TxDOT is intentionally doing it so that cronies can profit from accidents is totally ridiculous nonsense.

That's correct. This same ramp was 2 lanes exiting 59 northbound before. And not only will it be one lane moving forward, that lane will be shared with some of the traffic exiting 59 southbound. So basically, TxDOT is taking 6 years to rebuild *the ramps* at the busiest intersection in the state...and the end result for this part of the intersection will go from having 2 lanes before to one now. Traffic is going to be how it is now until they finish the ramp for 59 southbound, and even then, it's only going to be marginally better and worse than it was before construction.

We're also taking the far right lane to exit north where we used to use that same lane to exit south. They switched the alignment. They've actually done that in a few places around town lately with traffic realignments (some of which have been beneficial) and left exits. The 610/I-10/290 area and 288 corridor come to mind.

I want public transit as much as anyone (higher speed transit that doesn't interfere with street traffic, at least), but this ramp has no impact on anyone's home in the area. The only entity I'm aware that was affected by this project was the Chick-Fil-A. 

Just to be clear, I don't think the guys who I spoke with in that web conference are in on an official conspiracy. There's really no need for conspiracies when you can routinely get away with stuff like this with little to no accountability. I doubt there's an actual script or itinerary here. The "conspiracy" is pretty much in the job description at this point. It's passive participation. It's maintaining an obviously flawed status quo. It's the "it is what it is...this is just how we conduct our business" narrative and it's their reluctance to change that, even when it's clear that their product is unacceptable. They don't want to ruffle any feathers and risk losing their job, so they go along with it...and that in itself should shine a light on the root of the problem. Hence, the interference ever lower-level employees give citizens when they even politely voice legitimate concerns that they know they have no legitimate answer for.

That said, not unlike the business world, there are people higher up at TxDOT who are well connected and know how to keep both their employees and the public indoctrinated with the idea that everything is working great even when they know it's not. The photo ops with the executives holding shovels, the ribbon-cutting, balloon-releasing "ceremonies" for projects that have minimal, if not negligible impact on traffic, the marketing for those projects ("the new West Loop"), etc....just your average, run of the mill, standard line of public relations BS that many people have become so numb to, they've given up hope...which is exactly what some of these higher ups want. I'll believe they're counting on people (from within TxDOT or otherwise) to either be discouraged, asleep, or not care enough to demand accountability before I believe they "don't know" something as basic as this project (and many others, for that matter) turning out to be the cluster **** the rest of us can clearly see it's going to be (and already is).

If you think that the planners and project engineers at TxDOT are incompetent to the extent of actually thinking that taking away a lane from the 610 southbound to 59 northbound exit ramp is going to improve traffic, I would ask how do you explain that? As much as everyone from TxDOT seems to have wanted me to believe otherwise in my experiences with them, this isn't rocket science. I mean, my 10 year old niece and nephew would scratch their heads upon hearing this. I totally get and agree that people are generally stupid, but there's no way I'm going to believe that any functional adult truly believes that taking away a lane here is an upgrade if you talk to them one on one in a serious conversation with no strings attached...much less one who works for TxDOT...much less the person who approved this project for TxDOT. I think *that* is complete BS and am inclined to question how anyone living in America for longer than 10 minutes would be skeptical to the idea of cronyism here in one of our most important industries. Time and time again, industry has lobbied its way to get what it wants, even at the expense of human life. Hopefully it won't happen, but I can tell you right now that this ramp design increases the chance of loss of life, and it most certainly will affect millions of people's lives in a variety of ways over time. The slowdowns alone will cause accidents, it will delay millions of people over time, it could be the difference between life and death for someone having a medical emergency. They advertise "end the streak of Texas deaths" while they're throwing banana peels all over the city.

Whether it's corruption, incompetence or (most likely) both to some degree, everyone involved in that process should be forced from their positions just based on the impact the design they came up with and approved is going to have for millions of Houstonians moving forward, and it shouldn't take an MIT grad...or even a GED to see that. There needs to be accountability when shit like this happens...and this is closer to the norm than the exception with TxDOT. Speaking of which, isn't it about time they repave Westheimer again? At this rate, there could be a pothole forming by the year 2050 at the intersection of GFY Houston Blvd. I don't know about you, but I would hate to see that get overlooked.

Edited June 11, 2021 by por favor gracias

[por favor gracias]

On 6/10/2021 at 10:01 AM, Houston19514 said:

The ramp actually is two lanes.  Yes, only one lane goes from the Loop to the ramp, but what people are apparently not noticing here is that a lot of the traffic coming from Uptown will no longer be getting on to the Loop at all, but going directly to the ramps to I-69.  Works really well.

The entrance from the feeder road w/ the traffic coming from Westheimer and W. Alabama had that same direct access to 59 before this project began. I agree that this has worked very well.

The only real change in terms of accessibility is having only one lane exiting from 610 when we had two lanes before this project began, and that lane will be shared with the people who will be exiting 59 southbound when construction is finished. There will be two lanes for the southbound exit.

Edited June 11, 2021 by por favor gracias

[por favor gracias]

23 hours ago, texas911 said:

The only reason for traffic in that area are line cutters.

The new design forces everyone exiting northbound to the far right lane, which will also be shared with some of the traffic exiting southbound. So moving forward, any incident on 59 southbound near that area (or the 59 south ramp itself) will affect people on 610 still trying to exit 59 northbound as well.

Those who are unfamiliar with this area are going to cut in line by default as they will only have a mile or so notice of their exit if they go by the signage...and by then, traffic is often already backed up to that point.

When they finish the ramp for 59 southbound, traffic flowing from 610 southbound to 59 northbound and southbound will be better than it is now, but it'll be worse than it was before construction began...unless like 3 million people move out of Houston between now and then.

Edited June 11, 2021 by por favor gracias

[X.R.]

Wow, after all of this is done we're going back to sharing lanes to exit? The only difference being that 59S finally gets two lanes and 59N gets the new ramp? That is f***ing terrible if true. 

Guys and gals, they had ALL this time, ALLL this time during COVID to shut that down. And instead, we're doing it when everything is building back to normal? Defeating COVID took a bit of time, so they got a full year more than some expected. Incredible amounts of stupidity. I went back to work in the middle of 2020 out of necessity, sometimes I was alone at 8:50 am taking the 610 ramp. They couldn't have just dropped certain projects and taken advantage of this unprecedented time? Maybe quit a project TXDot was doing in BFE, Texas and rush to one of the busiest highways in the state? 

I love HAIF but the reddit thread for this is filled with the right reaction of joyfully poking fun at what a shit show this is going to be. 

[samagon]

it's so hard to find the actual schematics, but here they are:

https://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/get-involved/about/hearings-meetings/houston/030316.html

they say proposed on them, so I'm sure there's changes. but yeah.

2 hours ago, X.R. said:

Wow, after all of this is done we're going back to sharing lanes to exit? The only difference being that 59S finally gets two lanes and 59N gets the new ramp? That is f***ing terrible if true. 

Guys and gals, they had ALL this time, ALLL this time during COVID to shut that down. And instead, we're doing it when everything is building back to normal? Defeating COVID took a bit of time, so they got a full year more than some expected. Incredible amounts of stupidity. I went back to work in the middle of 2020 out of necessity, sometimes I was alone at 8:50 am taking the 610 ramp. They couldn't have just dropped certain projects and taken advantage of this unprecedented time? Maybe quit a project TXDot was doing in BFE, Texas and rush to one of the busiest highways in the state? 

I love HAIF but the reddit thread for this is filled with the right reaction of joyfully poking fun at what a shit show this is going to be. 

if you think this is fun, I suppose you are all for the i45 realignment, and expansion. that will be well over 10 years of comedy gold.

[Houston19514]

7 hours ago, por favor gracias said:

The entrance from the feeder road w/ the traffic coming from Westheimer and W. Alabama had that same direct access to 59 before this project began. I agree that this has worked very well.

The only real change in terms of accessibility is having only one lane exiting from 610 when we had two lanes before this project began, and that lane will be shared with the people who will be exiting 59 southbound when construction is finished. There will be two lanes for the southbound exit.

I overstated it when I said the Uptown traffic formerly had to get on the Loop.  But you are overstating it when you say that traffic had the same direct access to 59 before this project began.  That is really not true at all.  Before this project began, all of the Uptown traffic (traffic from Westheimer and W Alabama), both north and southbound had to mix with all the traffic coming from the West Loop lanes, with massive amounts of merging and lane-weaving required.   Now, the Uptown traffic goes truly directly to both 69 northbound and 69 southbound, without having to first join with (and weave with) the traffic exiting the Loop mainlines (only joining with the traffic coming from the West Loop after all of the directional un-mixing has been accomplished -- no weaving required).

Furthermore, there will now be two lanes fully dedicated to carrying Loop traffic on to Southbound 69 (the direction that needs the additional capacity) PLUS the additional lane carrying the Uptown traffic on to Southbound 69, PLUS the Northbound Loop traffic coming to southbound 69 will not join the that same ramp as it did before.  So the net result should be pretty significant increased capacity for the ramps to southbound 69.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Houston19514

[por favor gracias]

On 6/11/2021 at 12:19 PM, X.R. said:

Wow, after all of this is done we're going back to sharing lanes to exit? The only difference being that 59S finally gets two lanes and 59N gets the new ramp? That is f***ing terrible if true. 

Guys and gals, they had ALL this time, ALLL this time during COVID to shut that down. And instead, we're doing it when everything is building back to normal? Defeating COVID took a bit of time, so they got a full year more than some expected. Incredible amounts of stupidity. I went back to work in the middle of 2020 out of necessity, sometimes I was alone at 8:50 am taking the 610 ramp. They couldn't have just dropped certain projects and taken advantage of this unprecedented time? Maybe quit a project TXDot was doing in BFE, Texas and rush to one of the busiest highways in the state? 

I love HAIF but the reddit thread for this is filled with the right reaction of joyfully poking fun at what a shit show this is going to be. 

Don't get me started on how they manage their projects. You think my last few posts have been long...