dalparadise Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I think you created a fantasy in your mind that no developer could build. It is no wonder that you are unimpressed with what was actually built.And you are impressed with it?I didn't have any fantasy in mind, I was merely observing. I didn't actually WANT anything out of HP, as I find shopping, dining, entertainment and living options in other parts of Houston to be excellent. I have no secret hard-on to buy Gap khakis or even Cartier watches downtown.If retail is, in fact, the answer to building downtown life past 6pm, and if we all agree that downtown life is our goal for whatever reason, I think this seems like poor execution. I think turning the shops inward does exactly what The Park Shops did -- it eliminates its interaction with the street and with the larger potential neighborhood that might begin to develop, had this been considered. If the types of retail planned were more destination oriented, people would have a reason to seek this place out and to come back often. If it had the mentality to create more of a sense of place to encourage a streetscape, it would draw even people not looking to shop, but merely gather. Again, this begins to build community -- something this collection of what looks like temporary buildings lacks.In the end, for all its promise, it's really just an inward-facing outdoor mall that may serve office workers and a few people killing time before a concert or basketball game and no one else. The thing I find funny is that we already have one lame mall downtown that no one goes to, why does anyone think we need two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrunner Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 In the end, for all its promise, it's really just an inward-facing outdoor mall that may serve office workers and a few people killing time before a concert or basketball game and no one else. The thing I find funny is that we already have one lame mall downtown that no one goes to, why does anyone think we need two?This is what really kills me. It's like an upgraded Park Shops, but it's two blocks away from the Park Shops. And the Park Shops sucks.I do think HOB and Lucky Strike will be successful, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSky Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I went to McCormick & Schmicks and they were taking reservations, and went to HOB and they were full for lunch. The important thing that you seem to forget is that they have 200K workers in downtown houston and it is connected to another huge employment center which is less than 5 miles away at the Med Center. The only thing missing is residential, but residential primarily provides retail purchasing only on nights after work and weekends. I use to work at Foley's and I can tell you that it was a mid-tier store with zero complimenting the store. Forever 21 at night had a line and a good amount of traffic from UH-Downtown. This thing is actually a nice retail find, and I will bet you that many retailers would trade in some weekend traffic to have consistent traffic Monday-Friday.With 2 stores open and HOB, this thing already is going to exceed expectations and will only get better when more things come into town. I do think this is a rough time to open, but if the retail stores can survive the following downturn, this thing will be a huge success.I do think that this development is on a lot of retailers radar and they will be watching it trying to see what type of traffic it will have on weekend and weekday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 With 2 stores open and HOB, this thing already is going to exceed expectations and will only get better when more things come into town. I do think this is a rough time to open, but if the retail stores can survive the following downturn, this thing will be a huge success.As Niche said, even if it 'goes under' the space will still be there and therefore so will the potential. If HP can just keep it's head above water during these times, it will hopefully rise to the top when things are up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 And you are impressed with it?I didn't have any fantasy in mind, I was merely observing. I didn't actually WANT anything out of HP, as I find shopping, dining, entertainment and living options in other parts of Houston to be excellent. I have no secret hard-on to buy Gap khakis or even Cartier watches downtown.If retail is, in fact, the answer to building downtown life past 6pm, and if we all agree that downtown life is our goal for whatever reason, I think this seems like poor execution. I think turning the shops inward does exactly what The Park Shops did -- it eliminates its interaction with the street and with the larger potential neighborhood that might begin to develop, had this been considered. If the types of retail planned were more destination oriented, people would have a reason to seek this place out and to come back often. If it had the mentality to create more of a sense of place to encourage a streetscape, it would draw even people not looking to shop, but merely gather. Again, this begins to build community -- something this collection of what looks like temporary buildings lacks.In the end, for all its promise, it's really just an inward-facing outdoor mall that may serve office workers and a few people killing time before a concert or basketball game and no one else. The thing I find funny is that we already have one lame mall downtown that no one goes to, why does anyone think we need two?That is all it ever was intended to be. Frankly, if you were making a downtown shopping mall into more than it is, the blame belongs with you, not with Houston Pavillions. And, for that matter, HP looks to be made up of concrete glass and limestone. These would be regional construction materials for this area. Personally, I am neither impressed nor unimpressed by HP. It is what it claims to be. It will house some restaurants and bars that I may occasionally frequent, and some shops that I will seldom frequent. However, because it is and was always a shopping center, I never idealized it to be something more, which you obviously have done. Therefore, I am not disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 That is all it ever was intended to be. Frankly, if you were making a downtown shopping mall into more than it is, the blame belongs with you, not with Houston Pavillions. And, for that matter, HP looks to be made up of concrete glass and limestone. These would be regional construction materials for this area. Personally, I am neither impressed nor unimpressed by HP. It is what it claims to be. It will house some restaurants and bars that I may occasionally frequent, and some shops that I will seldom frequent. However, because it is and was always a shopping center, I never idealized it to be something more, which you obviously have done. Therefore, I am not disappointed.Well said. And may I add, this is clearly a hugely positive addition to downtown Houston. Anybody who has seen the very comparable Denver Pavilions (also an inward-facing outdoor mall) can see that. Anyone who has spent even thirty seconds comparing HP to the Shops at Houston Center (fka The Park Shops) can also see that HP has not done "exactly what the Park Shops did". Far from it. While the Park Shops does very nearly "eliminate its interaction with the streets" that cannot really be said about HP. There are large, attractive openings on each end of HP and further openings with the cross streets at each of the two mid-center street crossings. Further, there are multiple store fronts and windows on the streets. (The Houston Center Shops, on the other hand, have approximately two streetside store fronts and one set of doors on the street.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tierwestah Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I guess some people on here just love bitching about things. I'm thinking they would have been happier with the 3 boring parking lots that were there before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonartstudent Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I guess some people on here just love bitching about things. I'm thinking they would have been happier with the 3 boring parking lots that were there before. I'm really dissappointed that they didn't include an indoor ski park in the plan like in Dubai Geeze Houston! I think this is a great addition to the downtown area, I think in the next year after the economy swings up again we may have some exciting news as companies announce new stores for HP. I also think they were very creative with their common spaces in how the incorporated the drainage at an angle with built in seating and planters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 we shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmoneybangbang Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Is the bowling alley even up yet? What is it, Lucky Stripe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic08 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I've read all the pros and cons presented on this topic and all I've got to gripe about is the $9.00 parking in the designated "HP Parking Garage" directly south of that bookstore/Forever 21. I understand parking downtown and paying to park, but there are misleading signs in this garage that advertise $3.00 parking for HP customers, and it's never been honored (I've parked there 3 times and charged $9.00 each time...my bad for being an idiot 3 times) AND no parking validation! What in the crap!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) I've read all the pros and cons presented on this topic and all I've got to gripe about is the $9.00 parking in the designated "HP Parking Garage" directly south of that bookstore/Forever 21. I understand parking downtown and paying to park, but there are misleading signs in this garage that advertise $3.00 parking for HP customers, and it's never been honored (I've parked there 3 times and charged $9.00 each time...my bad for being an idiot 3 times) AND no parking validation! What in the crap!?I guess they don't want you shopping too long. From the website's parking link:Parking Rates:$1.50 each 20 minutes maximum of $10.00 Edited November 19, 2008 by lockmat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic08 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Oops...sorry...I forgot to mention that I was there for 30 minutes each time. I even showed my receipt compared to my parking ticket and was told too bad, so sad. This garage is connected to HP via skywalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Oops...sorry...I forgot to mention that I was there for 30 minutes each time. I even showed my receipt compared to my parking ticket and was told too bad, so sad. This garage is connected to HP via skywalk Geeze, were you double parked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Ive never had a problem finding free parking... strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic08 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Ive never had a problem finding free parking... strange. Where can I park for free? And please keep in mind that I'm horrible at parallel parking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) Oops...sorry...I forgot to mention that I was there for 30 minutes each time. I even showed my receipt compared to my parking ticket and was told too bad, so sad. This garage is connected to HP via skywalk you should call the business(es) you went to and make sure they know the parking situation. maybe they can do something from their end. was downtown sunday evening and couldn't believe how much they were charging for parking pre-madonna. $40 at one place. Edited November 19, 2008 by musicman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Where can I park for free? And please keep in mind that I'm horrible at parallel parking If you can't, then you DESERVE to pay for parking. Seriously, people, are such a nation of "instant gratification" that we can't tolerate a few months of this thing ramping up and seeing it "empty" before declaring it a "Failure." As its been stated on this thread before (and need I remind you OTHER threads as well) give it at least a year or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonartstudent Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I guess I should start selling off my company paid-for spot in First City Garage right across from the House of Blues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) I think many may wonder as I do what will DRIVE business to this location.....so far after it has opened many including several who have been there still wonder about that.....and often when a large new development like this has trouble filling all the spaces and or getting the stores opened in a timely fashion it rightly makes people question what will DRIVE the business to this locationHonestly, i think House Of Blues and Lucky Strike will drive business there because HOB has already done so for me and lots of others i know.And HOB is in this for the long run...why? because, forget the restaurant for now...it is a quality music venue...great lights, sound, stage and ambiance...love the place and it makes me excited to go see shows again...so much so that i am more open to see other new bands in such a great environment. Those reasons alone will keep people coming to the HP and rightfully so. (as for the restaurant and bar, i liked it and while some may have their justified complaints, i will continue to go there, as will my friends.)Cant wait to have Lucky Strike open as well since Dave and Busters bowling at the Marqe was my only other close option!and i cant forget the opening of Cork in January 09! Cork is an awesome wine bar, live music venue so that will also bring a new and great addition to HP! im excited ps...not sure if the pic posted of the VIP dining room at HOB is from the Foundation Room but from all the Foundation Rooms i have been lucky enough to visit, it looks like it is and cannot wait to visit this houston one as well dec 3rd!thanks for the pic!Everyone must somehow, someway get to experience a Foundation Room event, these spaces are incredible. Edited November 19, 2008 by gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Where can I park for free? And please keep in mind that I'm horrible at parallel parking There are places here and there along the street. You just have to look for them. I go downtown all the time and I have never paid for parking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) ps...not sure if the pic posted of the VIP dining room at HOB is from the Foundation Room but from all the Foundation Rooms i have been lucky enough to visit, it looks like it is and cannot wait to visit this houston one as well dec 3rd!thanks for the pic! Everyone must somehow, someway get to experience a Foundation Room event, these spaces are incredible. it is from the houston hob. here's another. and here's the music venue with the bottom floor being standing room only. Edited November 19, 2008 by musicman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Honestly, i think House Of Blues and Lucky Strike will drive business there because HOB has already done so for me and lots of others i know.And HOB is in this for the long run...why? because, forget the restaurant for now...it is a quality music venue...great lights, sound, stage and ambiance...love the place and it makes me excited to go see shows again...so much so that i am more open to see other new bands in such a great environment. Those reasons alone will keep people coming to the HP and rightfully so. (as for the restaurant and bar, i liked it and while some may have their justified complaints, i will continue to go there, as will my friends.)Cant wait to have Lucky Strike open as well since Dave and Busters bowling at the Marqe was my only other close option!and i cant forget the opening of Cork in January 09! Cork is an awesome wine bar, live music venue so that will also bring a new and great addition to HP! im excited ps...not sure if the pic posted of the VIP dining room at HOB is from the Foundation Room but from all the Foundation Rooms i have been lucky enough to visit, it looks like it is and cannot wait to visit this houston one as well dec 3rd!thanks for the pic!Everyone must somehow, someway get to experience a Foundation Room event, these spaces are incredible.Yeah I'd go to cork. I dont know about HOB though as I'm not much into Blues... or "rock". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 was downtown sunday evening and couldn't believe how much they were charging for parking pre-madonna. $40 at one place. People who spend their disposable income on Madonna tickets should be relieved of as much disposable income as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 People who spend their disposable income on Madonna tickets should be relieved of as much disposable income as possible. Why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewellman Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Yeah I'd go to cork. I dont know about HOB though as I'm not much into Blues... or "rock".Most of the shows that have been there so far have been Hip Hop concerts...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasVines Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Why is that? because she is yesterdays has been, looks like tom petty on crack now, and has totally gone off the deep end and needs to be locked up to have her sanity checked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 because she is yesterdays has been, looks like tom petty on crack now, and has totally gone off the deep end and needs to be locked up to have her sanity checked Well for a "yesterday's has been" she sure knows how to sell out a concert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroMogul Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 (edited) I think the disappointment lies in the fact that so many Houstonians are craving that ONE entertainment/shopping district that will draw world and national renown like so many other cities currently have. Fairly or not, HP was hyped as the realization of these urban fantasies since it's inception and when you look at what it was proposed to be and what it is now, I can understand a fair bit of letdown. HP went from urban hipster fantasy to a curiously designed Park Shops. I seriously doubt that is what many people were expecting when it was announced. However, to deem HP a failure is very premature and giving it a three month life span is utterly ridiculous. I think HP has a good chance of limping along into something respectable or at the very least an alternative to the Tunnels and the Park Shops. Edited November 20, 2008 by MetroMogul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I think the disappointment lies in the fact that so many Houstonians are craving that ONE entertainment/shopping district that will draw world and national renown like so many other cities currently have.who's craving this? it surprises me many have never heard of hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.