METRORail Green Line

[102IAHexpress]

There are multiple problems with your interpretation of the 2013 study.

 

 

 

Not at all. I clearly stated local bus/metro rail.

 

Yes some higher income earners use the park and ride, but this thread is about the light rail.

 

Yes of course the park and ride system is popular. It's one of the few things that work. Again, Houston is a bus city.

 

Also you can speculate all you want, but the survey is of actual Houstonians and there commuting trends. The citizens are telling you what they are doing/not doing. To ignore it is delusional.

 

[lithiumaneurysm]

Not at all. I clearly stated local bus/metro rail.

 

Yes some higher income earners use the park and ride, but this thread is about the light rail.

 

Yes of course the park and ride system is popular. It's one of the few things that work. Again, Houston is a bus city.

 

Also you can speculate all you want, but the survey is of actual Houstonians and there commuting trends. The citizens are telling you what they are doing/not doing. To ignore it is delusional.

 

 

The park and ride applies to rail as well. Suburban commuters park and then ride. Some of them use buses, some use rail. The point is that there isn't this aversion to mass transit by high-income earners that you claim there is.

 

I just gave you multiple reasons why the discrepancy exists, but you're still trying to extrapolate that data to apply to future high-income earners who will live along the rail. That doesn't make any sense. I would more readily accept your point if it were a study of people who live within a quarter mile of a rail stop – that way, we could really demonstrate differences in commuting options by income, because all of the people studied would have equal access to the rail line. But when you add suburban commuters into the mix, it's obvious that high-income people who don't live anywhere near a rail line aren't going to exclusively use it.

 

The study also ignores the use of rail for purposes other than commuting to work. We can safely assume that high-income residents who live near the rail would use it to visit bars in Midtown or one of the stadiums.

 

Really, the commuter study says nothing about why we shouldn't be investing in light rail. We still have my aforementioned evidence showing a clear positive correlation between light rail access and property values. In addition, we can look to the Houston Area Survey's clear demonstration of a significant demand for transit options within the city. Why would developers even bother abiding by the City's stringent transit-oriented development standards if it didn't yield some significant return for them? The commuter study also notes that high-income earners are the most likely to walk to work. If they're willing to engage in such peasantry as walking in Houston, why won't they take advantage of a convenient, high-frequency rail service?

Edited June 29, 2015 by lithiumaneurysm

[BigFootsSocks]

I'm still waiting on you to private message me the names of your "friends" that live in Rice Lofts who use the light rail all the time.

Also still waiting on you to answer my question....

I see you're now over 3000 posts? Too much time on your hands?

Lol who judges someone on their post history?

Guys this is serious bait, and it'd be best to just stop posting. Let him have the "last word" when we all know he's full of bs

[102IAHexpress]

The park and ride applies to rail as well. Suburban commuters park and then ride. Some of them use buses, some use rail. The point is that there isn't this aversion to mass transit by high-income earners that you claim there is.

 

 

Huh? Of course there is. High-Income earners in Houston avoid it like the plague. And they especially avoid the local bus/ light rail, I can repost the chart I posted earlier if you like? These are actual Houstonians telling us what THEY are doing. It's a valid study with a solid population sample. Sorry it doesn't further your position....

[cloud713]

Wow 102 is a fvcking idiot...

[102IAHexpress]

Guys this is serious bait, and it'd be best to just stop posting. Let him have the "last word" when we all know he's full of bs

 

BS?

 

June 3 Article on Houston Chronicle.

Early use of new light rail lines below expectations

 

2013 Study of Houston Commuters to Downtown

 

Try again.

[cloud713]

BS?

2013 Study of Houston Commuters to Downtown

 

Try again.

 

 

There are multiple problems with your interpretation of the 2013 study.

 

First, the study is an analysis of commuters to Downtown from all areas of the city. It makes perfect sense that high-income people use the rail less, because the rail doesn't serve many high-income people. We can note two things:

• A majority of people who work in Downtown do not live near the area. This is clearly shown in appendix B of the study, which displays a map showing the distribution of the studied employees across the metro. Since the service area encompasses virtually all of Houston, we can assume the statistics would regress towards the transportation mode distribution of the entire city, which is auto-dominated for high-income workers.
• The population served by the rail line is not predominately high-income. Since this study was conducted in 2013, it predates a significant amount of affluent new high-income development in the area. This is shown on page 84, where higher income correlates with a longer commute to Downtown, with the exception of those who make over $200k a year (obviously a very small fraction of the population).

These explain the discrepancies in rail use by income. However, in addition, your interpretation ignores the fact that this study has nothing to do with "probability." The commuter survey is supposed to provide a snapshot of existing conditions, not a prediction of future trends. There is nothing to suggest that high-income workers will not increase their use of public transit when they begin moving into Downtown and other districts at higher rates over the next decade. We can't extrapolate this data to say anything about what high-income Downtown commuters will "probably" do if they are suddenly served by rail, because that isn't the point of the study.

 

Your interpretation also ignores the use of park and ride, which is actually highest among those who make more than $100k a year (high income earners). It makes sense that few of them use the rail or bus exclusively, because they don't live near Downtown in the first place and are able to afford a car for the suburb-to-transit center commute.

 

So how can we determine what people will do when they start living near alternative transit modes? We can survey them to see what they say they want. And that's pretty clear cut. For a Houston-specific example, we can simply look to Rice's Kinder Institute, which publishes the annual Houston Area Survey. For the past few years, the report has shown consistent metro-wide support for transit and more urban forms of living. That's why these apartment projects exist; that's why this development is taking place.

Try Again.

[Slick Vik]

Huh? Of course there is. High-Income earners in Houston avoid it like the plague. And they especially avoid the local bus/ light rail, I can repost the chart I posted earlier if you like? These are actual Houstonians telling us what THEY are doing. It's a valid study with a solid population sample. Sorry it doesn't further your position....

Medical center workers must be a bunch of peasants

[j_cuevas713]

Ok I can't take this guy anymore. Anyone have any cool pics of the rail lines? lol

[102IAHexpress]

Medical center workers must be a bunch of peasants

 

Last time I checked the medical center was, well in the Medical center. How does that further your position that downtown light rail is the cause of soooo much downtown development?

 

[Slick Vik]

Last time I checked the medical center was, well in the Medical center. How does that further your position that downtown light rail is the cause of soooo much downtown development?

It's been proven post after post. You're just trolling now.

[102IAHexpress]

Proven? Huh?

 

A study that suggests people may use the light rail more in the future? What?

 

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. So, If high income earners are not using the light rail that much now if at all, then they are not very likely to magically start using it in the future.

 

Sorry but residents of those developments/future developments are more likely to use Uber to Midtown, etc.. Not saying it's right or wrong, that's just what it is.

[cloud713]

Two? Look at all the failed business along Preston Station. There's a huge amount of turnover. Look at Houston Pavillions and the big chunk of that development that was brought down by a wrecking ball. Sure there's something new going up in it's place, but why didn't the first tenant succeed?

 

Yall are pro rail. I get it. But yall are not necessarily pro public transportation. Houston is a bus city. There's nothing wrong that. Maybe we're not cool like SFO or NYC. But I don't care. I care about moving people. I don't care about having a status symbol in my city that's a waste of money and moves only little more people than the busses it replaced but at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars more.

 

Public transpiration should be about moving the most amount of people in the most cost effective way.

(genuine question because I'm not sure..) what has been around Preston Station historically? i would venture to guess some sort of bars/clubs due to its proximity to Market Square, etc? bars/clubs generally have very high "turn overs"/changes in establishments anyways, falling by the wayside for the next hip thing. besides, those store fronts you are talking about presumably aren't directly on Market Square where the best GFR frontage in that area is.

if I'm completely off base then forgive me for making assumptions..

as for Houston Pavilions.. obviously the 2008 economy crash put a huge damper on things and the design was scaled back multiple times, so from the start it wasn't built the way it was intended. they also made (and Midway has been working to resolve) a few mistakes like not to turn their backs entirely on the street interaction, and that retail doesn't really work on the 2nd floor. I'm not sure what any of that has to do with rail?

you are anti-rail.. we get it. but you are not necessarily pro-public transportation. Houston is a multifaceted city which will need multiple modes of transportation. the bus system is insanely important to moving people around, and we don't need to ignore that, but fixed guideway transit (wether it be BRT or LRT) is a solution to many of the problems busses face. the billions of dollars in development taking place along the rail lines are just one of many added benefits to having a permanent transit route. along with taking those big ass busses off the road so we don't have so many potholes and crappy streets messing up our cars tires and suspension, saving the citizens vehicle repair costs and less tax dollars needed to fix our roads. not to mention rail makes for more timely transit schedules. I'm sure i could keep going but whats the point? you're just going to ignore all of this and beat around the bush as usual...

[cspwal]

Ok I can't take this guy anymore. Anyone have any cool pics of the rail lines? lol

 

Here's an interesting one I took at the current end of the East End line when it first opened - looks like there is a MetroRail depot out there

 

(Looking east from Altic/Howard Hughes)

 

[BigFootsSocks]

Here's an interesting one I took at the current end of the East End line when it first opened - looks like there is a MetroRail depot out there

(Looking east from Altic/Howard Hughes)

I'm curious what the line looks like over by the coffee warehouse building; crews were tearing up every other block to plant trees (?) or something. Should look nice along this route

[102IAHexpress]

you are anti-rail.. we get it. but you are not necessarily pro-public transportation. Houston is a multifaceted city which will need multiple modes of transportation. the bus system is insanely important to moving people around, and we don't need to ignore that, but fixed guideway transit (wether it be BRT or LRT) is a solution to many of the problems busses face. the billions of dollars in development taking place along the rail lines are just one of many added benefits to having a permanent transit route. along with taking those big ass busses off the road so we don't have so many potholes and crappy streets messing up our cars tires and suspension, saving the citizens vehicle repair costs and less tax dollars needed to fix our roads. not to mention rail makes for more timely transit schedules. I'm sure i could keep going but whats the point? you're just going to ignore all of this and beat around the bush as usual...

 

I'm not anti rail per se. A well planned light rail is not a bad thing.

 

But lets not get carried away. The Red Line replaced busses that were the most frequently commuted in the city. Which makes sense, those busses connected the two major economic centers of the city, Downtown and the Med Center. The Red Line is heavily used today in 2015 because well, that route has always been heavily used. But how's the north line extension doing? What about the green/purple?

 

Houston is a city without zoning. Population centers may pop up one day and disappear the next. Probably the worst kind of city for fixed guide way transit. Busses are more flexible and can adjust more easily as the populations of the city adjust. etc, etc, I'm sure I could keep going but what's the point? You're just going to ignore all the reasons why Houston is a bus city...

[cloud713]

again squirming around the facts presented..

and what the hell are you talking about population centers pop up one day and disappear the next?

i just got done talking about how crucial busses were to our transit network and that we need not ignore them.. are you blind?

[mollusk]

what? that are around the mcdonalds/grey hound isnt bad?!?! LOL if you go there during the evening time you see people shooting up meth in the mcdonalds parking lot ALL THE TIME. Thats the WORST area 

 

Pictures or it didn't happen.

 

This morning I walked by the failed Georgia's Farmer's Market. I also wonder why? Right in front of the Light Rail Station, Business should be booming?

 

Having access to customers won't help much if you're running a business that hopes to make it up to being mediocre.  I went in there a few times (out of hope).  It had a very limited selection of pretty dismal products.  I'm surprised it hung on as long as it did.  If rail had anything to do with its closing, it's because it gave access to more stores for those who live near it.

[msteele6]

Yes. not safe.

 

Try walking from the end/start of the line to the CoH courts. Try it. Let me know how reasonable it is for you...

 

I'm 65 and somewhat handicapped. I walked from the tram to the courthouse, found out it was the wrong courthouse, walked to the correct courthouse and to the tram again and survived quite nicely. Of course, some people are just constitutionally against public transport (insurance companies, car dealerships, gasoline stations owners) but I think that I have my big boy pants sufficiently gird about me to make this dangerous trek.

Edited June 29, 2015 by msteele6

[Slick Vik]

I'm not anti rail per se. A well planned light rail is not a bad thing.

But lets not get carried away. The Red Line replaced busses that were the most frequently commuted in the city. Which makes sense, those busses connected the two major economic centers of the city, Downtown and the Med Center. The Red Line is heavily used today in 2015 because well, that route has always been heavily used. But how's the north line extension doing? What about the green/purple?

Houston is a city without zoning. Population centers may pop up one day and disappear the next. Probably the worst kind of city for fixed guide way transit. Busses are more flexible and can adjust more easily as the populations of the city adjust. etc, etc, I'm sure I could keep going but what's the point? You're just going to ignore all the reasons why Houston is a bus city...

Buses get stuck in traffic, are noisy, and pollute. The only good bus would be a bus rapid transit which is a fixed guideway. You don't speak for the city.

[102IAHexpress]

Buses get stuck in traffic, are noisy, and pollute. The only good bus would be a bus rapid transit which is a fixed guideway. You don't speak for the city.

 

Our light rail gets stuck in traffic too; in the med center. the green purple train also gets stuck in traffic in downtown. The light rail train horn is louder than any bus in Houston. I can hear the light rail train "whistle" from my office and I'm 70 plus floors above the street.  Some Metro buses use compressed natural gas? No? The green link bus in downtown is zero emission, no?

 

I don't speak for the city. But the people of Houston have spoken for the city. They prefer their cars. When convenient they will use the park and ride system. When those who cannot afford cars, can afford them, they will stop using the local buses and instead use their new/used car.

[BigFootsSocks]

Anyone curious what UofH students think of the new rail link? I'm sure it's not getting much use during the summer but it'll be so nice to take it into downtown once the semester begins.

[cspwal]

I'd be curious to know if the light rail ridership numbers in general go down in the summer - less college students, more people opting to stay in air conditioned cars

[Slick Vik]

Our light rail gets stuck in traffic too; in the med center. the green purple train also gets stuck in traffic in downtown. The light rail train horn is louder than any bus in Houston. I can hear the light rail train "whistle" from my office and I'm 70 plus floors above the street. Some Metro buses use compressed natural gas? No? The green link bus in downtown is zero emission, no?

I don't speak for the city. But the people of Houston have spoken for the city. They prefer their cars. When convenient they will use the park and ride system. When those who cannot afford cars, can afford them, they will stop using the local buses and instead use their new/used car.

You're such a moron it's hilarious. People prefer cars because the system is built for cars. Go do some research. Houston was a streetcar city. Cars were considered a failure. Why would someone spend half a year's salary for a car when they could take public transport for 5 cents? Certain bribed politicians in office decided that streetcars could not raise their fares and had to pay for maintenance of the entire roadways that they were on, basically bankrupting them.

Not to mention bob Lanier took $500 million meant for rail and handed it to the cops, and Tom delay and John Culberson did anything in their power to deter progress in rail projects. The system we have right now is the very beginning of something. This is like judging Michael Jordan at 10 years old and saying he sucks he'll never do anything. But then again I think you like being a troll. People are part of the system they are in. Make a dynamic rail system, people will ride it. The traffic is just going to get worse and worse and if you can't see that, you're blind.

[cloud713]

I don't speak for the city. But the people of Houston have spoken for the city. They prefer their cars. When convenient they will use the park and ride system. When those who cannot afford cars, can afford them, they will stop using the local buses and instead use their new/used car.

What the hell are you talking about? Yes, Houston has developed as a sunbelt post war city. No, that doesn't mean people who can afford cars won't ride rail. Houston doesn't quite have the traffic problems of the northeast and LA yet, but with a million people moving here every 10 years you can bet your ass our traffic will eventually get to the point that more and more people would prefer to take a train around town that's more efficient and quicker than driving. Houston has a great highway system so we've been able to hold off the inevitable for much longer than most cities, but eventually a decent rail/fixed guideway transit system will be a must.

Why would people still use the park and ride when found convenient, but not use a rail system when found convenient?? I don't see too many new residential towers sprouting up next to the park & rides for them to be anywhere near as convenient as rail is for the people in close proximity to the rail line.

Edited June 29, 2015 by cloud713

[BigFootsSocks]

nooo

[Ross]

You're such a moron it's hilarious. People prefer cars because the system is built for cars. Go do some research. Houston was a streetcar city. Cars were considered a failure. Why would someone spend half a year's salary for a car when they could take public transport for 5 cents? Certain bribed politicians in office decided that streetcars could not raise their fares and had to pay for maintenance of the entire roadways that they were on, basically bankrupting them.

 

 

My great grandfather made a great living in Houston selling cars, starting in 1911. He started with Krit, and then sold Overland and then Willys, then moved to LA in 1920 or so to sell Fords after he and my great grandmother divorced. He worked at a dealer where the Marriott in the old Humble building is on Main. People wanted cars, and those who could afford them, bought them. Once they had cars, a whole new range of leisure and work options opened up.

 

You need to get over your misery about the streetcars going away. That happened a long time ago, and no amount of whining today is going to change it. At some point, Houston will expand rail. It isn't going to happen quickly, but it will happen when it makes sense to a majority of the population.

 

[Slick Vik]

My great grandfather made a great living in Houston selling cars, starting in 1911. He started with Krit, and then sold Overland and then Willys, then moved to LA in 1920 or so to sell Fords after he and my great grandmother divorced. He worked at a dealer where the Marriott in the old Humble building is on Main. People wanted cars, and those who could afford them, bought them. Once they had cars, a whole new range of leisure and work options opened up.

You need to get over your misery about the streetcars going away. That happened a long time ago, and no amount of whining today is going to change it. At some point, Houston will expand rail. It isn't going to happen quickly, but it will happen when it makes sense to a majority of the population.

I'm not going to stop mentioning when a great crime was committed. I'm sure you would also have said slavery isn't a big deal it will be abolished when it makes sense for the majority of the population.

[Ross]

Suit yourself, Slick, but your message is not effective at all because of your incessant whining about the meanies that allegedly killed streetcars. It's sort of like the guy that keeps talking about the touchdown he scored in high school 50 years ago. No one cares but him.

[BigFootsSocks]

If there were a way to delete threads...

 

Seriously. Fvk all of you guys.