METRORail Green Line

[cloud713]

on the real though.. if there isn't already something like this, there should be...

A midtown "GreenLink" with a few light rail stops would be ideal.. Have it hit the local bars at nights and cruise the residential areas during the day.

[samagon]

The best build out will eventually be to have local circulators everywhere that feed into the light rail.

[Slick Vik]

Have you walked that 5-10 min? That greyhound and bus stops get super sketchy. No one wants to go through that area drunk or esp if you're a girl

Get off at McGowen and walk down McGowen to smith or brazos or bagby and make a right. It's not that bad.

[mollusk]

WTF are you talking about? Have you EVER been to midtown to go out? You think someone is going to walk from the downtown transit center in bar/clubbing entire and go through that mcdonalds/grey hound/2016 main area ? 

 

Do us a favor and try it tonight and let me know how it works for you. Females get assaulted/sexually assaulted as a higher rate then males do, so wtf are you even trying to say?

(Apparently mandatory disclaimer...) Yes, of course, one should always have some situational awareness so as not to get mugged.  Which can happen in the parking garage at the flippin' Galleria, or be perpetrated by your Uber driver.  (Plus apparently mandatory additional acknowledgement of what ought to be glaringly obvious...)  And yes, women in clubbing clothing on their third mojito have legitimate safety concerns that sober big burly guys might not have.

 

Still... downtown/midtown has a lot less street crime than it used to.  This is a big city with a lot of people.  Part of the deal that comes with having a lot of people is that while Mayberry may have had only one Otis, we have a lot of Otises - the vast majority of whom are roughly as harmless as Otis.  Icky, but not really that huge a threat as long as you keep your space around you, keep your eyes open, and keep moving.  Yep, of course that is difficult to do in six inch pumps, or if you're hammered.  Those are situations where a designated driver or a cab probably make more sense than walking six blocks, even if those six blocks are in West U.

 

Public transportation and public streets are just that - public.  And "public" includes people who sometimes don't look or act or even smell just like you.  But just being different doesn't mean that they're going to knife you.  Either learn to deal with it, or don't leave whatever little bubble there is that keeps you warm.

 

Edit:  For the record, I've been walking on Main Street in Midtown well after dark with a few beers in me since The Island was a thing.

Edited June 27, 2015 by mollusk

[astros148]

well on fridays and Saturdays the lightrail going from fannin up north stops running at 1:40 ... so what sense does it make if you take the light rail and cant even ride it back once it closes? 

[BigFootsSocks]

idk, maybe your plan your trip accordingly so that you don't miss out on a ride back to your vehicle if you took the tram to midtown? Just throwing out wide guesses here

[Slick Vik]

well on fridays and Saturdays the lightrail going from fannin up north stops running at 1:40 ... so what sense does it make if you take the light rail and cant even ride it back once it closes?

The last train southbound is after 2 I believe. But regardless people should plan to make it back, or catch a cab or uber

[Slick Vik]

The best build out will eventually be to have local circulators everywhere that feed into the light rail.

The idea in most cities is to have local buses that feed into rail stations. Parking at stations though convenient pretty much goes against the theory of transport authorities, particularly in areas where land is at a premium, and also encourages driving to an extent. That being said a park and ride is kind of a compromise I suppose.

[IronTiger]

Ohhhhh, Tiger, Tiger, Tiger...

Please, when you come to The Big City again, try not to enter an intersection unless you know you will be able to clear it - train or no train. People who park in the middle of intersections with nowhere to go when their light turns red just create gridlock for the cross street.

True story: I heard a police siren while stuck and freaked out because I thought they were going to ticket me.

[Ross]

True story: I heard a police siren while stuck and freaked out because I thought they were going to ticket me.

 

In Houston, you have to try much harder than that to get a ticket.

 

[j_cuevas713]

Dude walking in that area is not terrible. It can get sketchy but so can any location in any other major city in America. So I have no clue how that area around the McDonalds/Greyhound is so terrible.Not saying it's ideal but thats life in the city.

[LarryDierker]

Dude walking in that area is not terrible. It can get sketchy but so can any location in any other major city in America. So I have no clue how that area around the McDonalds/Greyhound is so terrible.Not saying it's ideal but thats life in the city.

 

Every greyhound station attracts shady people. It's not only a Houston problem.

[cloud713]

He's implying the area around McDonald's and greyhound isn't as bad as yall are making it out to seem.. Which is true, like both of you have pointed out, it's just a way of life in the city..

[astros148]

what? that are around the mcdonalds/grey hound isnt bad?!?! LOL if you go there during the evening time you see people shooting up meth in the mcdonalds parking lot ALL THE TIME. Thats the WORST area 

[cloud713]

Its "bad", sure, but no one is forcing you to take a squat next to them and shoot up. Grab your burger and move along..

Selfishly I do kind of wish the greyhound station and the homeless shelters moved off the red line though (maybe just move the bus station north of downtown. It's proximity to the red line seems somewhat necessary?), to try and draw those people out of sight and away from our main rail line and the popular destinations.

[Slick Vik]

what? that are around the mcdonalds/grey hound isnt bad?!?! LOL if you go there during the evening time you see people shooting up meth in the mcdonalds parking lot ALL THE TIME. Thats the WORST area

It's not ideal but it's not Baghdad. I've been there at least 500 times in my life and nothing has happened to me.

[102IAHexpress]

Yup, the McDonalds/Greyhound area is pretty bad. In 2013 a women sued greyhound for being raped INSIDE the terminal by the SECURITY GUARD!  It's pretty telling that MegaBus has their "terminal" a good distance away from the Greyhound one. They obviously do not want their brand anywhere near Greyhound or that area. 

 

 

As I looked out my apartment window yesterday I noticed the Opening Spring 2015 sign for the restaurant next to Café Express. No construction, nothing. Wonder why? It's right on the rail? This morning I walked by the failed Georgia's Farmer's Market. I also wonder why? Right in front of the Light Rail Station, Business should be booming?

 

 

In more obvious news, early numbers for the green/purple lines are below expectations.

[Slick Vik]

Yup, the McDonalds/Greyhound area is pretty bad. In 2013 a women sued greyhound for being raped INSIDE the terminal by the SECURITY GUARD! It's pretty telling that MegaBus has their "terminal" a good distance away from the Greyhound one. They obviously do not want their brand anywhere near Greyhound or that area.

As I looked out my apartment window yesterday I noticed the Opening Spring 2015 sign for the restaurant next to Café Express. No construction, nothing. Wonder why? It's right on the rail? This morning I walked by the failed Georgia's Farmer's Market. I also wonder why? Right in front of the Light Rail Station, Business should be booming?

In more obvious news, early numbers for the green/purple lines are below expectations.

A good distance? It's 2 blocks away. You must not walk much. And you're back to trolling. Edited June 29, 2015 by Slick Vik

[102IAHexpress]

I'm still waiting on you to private message me the names of your "friends" that live in Rice Lofts who use the light rail all the time.

 

Also still waiting on you to answer my question....

 

I see you're now over 3000 posts? Too much time on your hands?

[lithiumaneurysm]

As I looked out my apartment window yesterday I noticed the Opening Spring 2015 sign for the restaurant next to Café Express. No construction, nothing. Wonder why? It's right on the rail? This morning I walked by the failed Georgia's Farmer's Market. I also wonder why? Right in front of the Light Rail Station, Business should be booming?

 

This is an utterly ridiculous argument. Anecdotes have no place in a discussion about macroscopic systems like a transit network. Are you seriously trying to argue that two examples of defunct businesses are enough to invalidate the entire METRORail system?

 

I don't see why it's so difficult to have a reasoned discussion about the implementation of light rail in this city. Why don't we look at the actual scientific evidence? There have been a number of case studies on our city's rail system that have demonstrated a statistically significant impact on property values and development. Take this 2011 study from UT, for example, examining the relationship between property values and the Red Line:

 

 

This study utilizes a hedonic price model to analyze the impacts of the light rail transit line on the values of adjacent residential properties. Ultimately, the modeling results confirm the hypothesis that that the accessibility effect, represented by the distance to LRT stations, causes a higher percent increase in property values between 2004 and 2010 as the distance to the nearest rail station decreases. In addition to the influence of increased access, this relationship may also be attributed to improvements made around the station areas during the same time period, including the addition of landscaping and other services and amenities.

 

Or how about this analysis, which also suggests a positive relationship between property values and the light rail?

 

 

 

This study used METRORail in Houston, Texas, and the Metro in Shanghai, China, as empirical cases and compared their effects on nearby residential property values. A hedonic price model with ordinary linear regression was used in the case study of Shanghai's rail transit lines. The Houston case study applied ordinary linear regression and multilevel regression techniques to examine the hierarchical structures of spatial data explicitly. The modeling results from both cases suggest that the overall effects of rail transit lines on residential property values are significantly positive. Notable variations of rail transit effects were also observed at various distance ranges and time spans.

 

Or this paper that discusses the potential for the new Green, Purple and Red lines to further the gentrification of traditionally low-income neighborhoods?

 

 

The connectivity that METRO Rail will bring the new urban areas will be that which bridges gentrifying communities with those that are of high affluence and upscale tastes. Not only are new residents shifting the composition of formerly lower income communities, they are now easily connected to expensive shops, boutiques, and sectors of the rich service industry economy that Houston has which arguably caters to the upper-middle class Houstonians and those above.

 

Or we could look at a more general analysis of light rail systems (not specific to Houston) that establishes a positive correlation with property values.

 

The point of long-term transportation planning like the creation of a light rail system is that it takes a long time. The METRORail is an investment in Houston's future and forms the basis for a metropolitan transportation network. We are gradually seeing the benefits as new development has started sprouting up in the Museum District, Midtown and Downtown. Scientific analysis leaves little doubt that the increased property values and propensity for development seen in these neighborhoods over the past few years are in part due to the introduction of light rail.

[samagon]

Very well reasoned post lithiumaneurysm. I fear it was a waste of your effort.

[102IAHexpress]

 

 

I don't see why it's so difficult to have a reasoned discussion about the implementation of light rail in this city. Why don't we look at the actual scientific evidence? There have been a number of case studies on our city's rail system that have demonstrated a statistically significant impact on property values and development. Take this 2011 study from UT, for example, examining the relationship between property values and the Red Line:

 

 

 

Look back at my earlier post where I posted a 2013 study of Houston commuters in Downtown Houston. The study clearly states that the higher income you earn the LESS likely you are to use local bus/metro rail if at all. So maybe you can answer my question which no one else has been able to answer. How can YOU attribute development and higher property values to a form of transportation that most higher income earners do NOT use? How can light rail claim credit for spurring luxury apartment/condo growth in downtown?

 

Using the same logic, you might as well claim that all the local bus routes that pass through Downtown are the actual spur of Downtown development?

[j_cuevas713]

I'm still waiting on you to private message me the names of your "friends" that live in Rice Lofts who use the light rail all the time.

 

Also still waiting on you to answer my question....

 

I see you're now over 3000 posts? Too much time on your hands?

Omg are you done yet!? So two business don't succeed and you blame the light rail!? Smh Maybe other things such as overpriced goods or a failed attempt at securing finances to begin redevloping an area has something to do with it. The market feeds off the demand for a good. So if a business isn't succeeding, it probably has to do with the lack of quality and demand of the product or good. And who cares who doesn't come walking straight from the Rice Lofts to use the rail! What scientific data do you need to walk to the rail stop at 8 am and see it packed or at 5 pm rush hour and there is no space to even get on? Is that scientific enough for you? Maybe the fact that every weekend people crowd the thing to go to the zoo or to a Dynamo or Stros game. And somehow you don't see the tons of cranes going up and around the rail line, and because it isn't exactly built on the line you completely refuse to admit the line has any impact on development yet developer after developer has admitted that the access to the rail within a 5 block radius, let me repeat, 5 BLOCK RADIUS, is a total benefit to their business. Access to public transportation is a big deal in ANY city. And the more we continue to attach to these lines, then the better for us and future generations. 

Edited June 29, 2015 by j_cuevas713

[samagon]

Look back at my earlier post where I posted a 2013 study of Houston commuters in Downtown Houston. The study clearly states that the higher income you earn the LESS likely you are to use local bus/metro rail if at all. So maybe you can answer my question which no one else has been able to answer. How can YOU attribute development and higher property values to a form of transportation that most higher income earners do NOT use? How can light rail claim credit for spurring luxury apartment/condo growth in downtown?

Using the same logic, you might as well claim that all the local bus routes that pass through Downtown are the actual spur of Downtown development?

I answered your question, but you didn't like my answer.

[102IAHexpress]

Omg are you done yet!? So two business don't succeed and you blame the light rail!?

 

Two? Look at all the failed business along Preston Station. There's a huge amount of turnover. Look at Houston Pavillions and the big chunk of that development that was brought down by a wrecking ball. Sure there's something new going up in it's place, but why didn't the first tenant succeed?

 

Yall are pro rail. I get it. But yall are not necessarily pro public transportation. Houston is a bus city. There's nothing wrong that. Maybe we're not cool like SFO or NYC. But I don't care. I care about moving people. I don't care about having a status symbol in my city that's a waste of money and moves only little more people than the busses it replaced but at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars more.

 

Public transpiration should be about moving the most amount of people in the most cost effective way.

[samagon]

Two? Look at all the failed business along Preston Station. There's a huge amount of turnover. Look at Houston Pavillions and the big chunk of that development that was brought down by a wrecking ball. Sure there's something new going up in it's place, but why didn't the first tenant succeed?

Yall are pro rail. I get it. But yall are not necessarily pro public transportation. Houston is a bus city. There's nothing wrong that. Maybe we're not cool like SFO or NYC. But I don't care. I care about moving people. I don't care about having a status symbol in my city that's a waste of money and moves only little more people than the busses it replaced but at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars more.

Public transpiration should be about moving the most amount of people in the most cost effective way.

There's lots of reasons businesses fail.

How are all the businesses succeeding in lower midtown right next to light rail? How is it possible that the hospitals on the rail have not closed? How is reliant still in business?

I think for you to attribute business closures, you need to post proof.

[kbates2]

As I looked out my apartment window yesterday I noticed the Opening Spring 2015 sign for the restaurant next to Café Express. No construction, nothing. Wonder why? It's right on the rail? This morning I walked by the failed Georgia's Farmer's Market. I also wonder why? Right in front of the Light Rail Station, Business should be booming?

 

I'm still waiting on you to private message me the names of your "friends" that live in Rice Lofts who use the light rail all the time.

 

102IA - The spring 2015 sign is for Table 7 grill.  They are still working on it and I see small amounts of progress every time I walk by it.  They actually just replaced their 'patio' awning and railing in the past week or so.  I don't think this counts a a failure yet.

 

I live in the Rice with you and will say that I ride every couple of weeks and I do see some of my neighbors ride frequently.

Edited June 29, 2015 by kbates2

[lithiumaneurysm]

Look back at my earlier post where I posted a 2013 study of Houston commuters in Downtown Houston. The study clearly states that the higher income you earn the LESS likely you are to use local bus/metro rail if at all. So maybe you can answer my question which no one else has been able to answer. How can YOU attribute development and higher property values to a form of transportation that most higher income earners do NOT use? How can light rail claim credit for spurring luxury apartment/condo growth in downtown?

 

Using the same logic, you might as well claim that all the local bus routes that pass through Downtown are the actual spur of Downtown development?

 

There are multiple problems with your interpretation of the 2013 study.

 

First, the study is an analysis of commuters to Downtown from all areas of the city. It makes perfect sense that high-income people use the rail less, because the rail doesn't serve many high-income people. We can note two things:

1. A majority of people who work in Downtown do not live near the area. This is clearly shown in appendix B of the study, which displays a map showing the distribution of the studied employees across the metro. Since the service area encompasses virtually all of Houston, we can assume the statistics would regress towards the transportation mode distribution of the entire city, which is auto-dominated for high-income workers.
2. The population served by the rail line is not predominately high-income. Since this study was conducted in 2013, it predates a significant amount of affluent new high-income development in the area. This is shown on page 84, where higher income correlates with a longer commute to Downtown, with the exception of those who make over $200k a year (obviously a very small fraction of the population).

These explain the discrepancies in rail use by income. However, in addition, your interpretation ignores the fact that this study has nothing to do with "probability." The commuter survey is supposed to provide a snapshot of existing conditions, not a prediction of future trends. There is nothing to suggest that high-income workers will not increase their use of public transit when they begin moving into Downtown and other districts at higher rates over the next decade. We can't extrapolate this data to say anything about what high-income Downtown commuters will "probably" do if they are suddenly served by rail, because that isn't the point of the study.

 

Your interpretation also ignores the use of park and ride, which is actually highest among those who make more than $100k a year (high income earners). It makes sense that few of them use the rail or bus exclusively, because they don't live near Downtown in the first place and are able to afford a car for the suburb-to-transit center commute.

 

So how can we determine what people will do when they start living near alternative transit modes? We can survey them to see what they say they want. And that's pretty clear cut. For a Houston-specific example, we can simply look to Rice's Kinder Institute, which publishes the annual Houston Area Survey. For the past few years, the report has shown consistent metro-wide support for transit and more urban forms of living. That's why these apartment projects exist; that's why this development is taking place.

Edited June 29, 2015 by lithiumaneurysm

[102IAHexpress]

How are all the businesses succeeding in lower midtown right next to light rail? How is it possible that the hospitals on the rail have not closed? How is reliant still in business?

 

 

lower midtown? where exactly? By the Fiesta Supermarket? Wheeler station? There's a huge empty parking lot in-between Fiesta, Sears and Jack in the Box on the light rail. It's been there since the light rail opened.

 

The hospitals and Astrodome/Reliant have been there prior to the light rail.

[Slick Vik]

This is like arguing with a 12 year old.