largeTEXAS Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I'm telling you, if the Strip in Las Vegas can become a hot spot for residential growth then that tells you what people are after. I really don't think there's so much of a chicken/egg scenario - I think retail attracts residential. The reason developers and brokers are working so hard to get downtown on track with retail is to boost its chances of becomming an all around neighborhood (and to make a lot of money). In my opinion, the only way downtown will succeed as a neighborhood is if it first becomes a retail destination. All else will then fall into place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YakuzaIce Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Houston Pavillions and Riva Place!?!?! how could you get them confused?<{POST_SNAPBACK}>There is a pavillions in uptown too.Regarding the grocery store isn't there one going in the stowers (I believe thats the name) building. I know there is a thread about it somewhere around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 "It all goes at once, starting this fall."This is the response I got from an email I sent asking about construction start date and phasing of the project.It seems they are planning to build the whole thing at one time.Hope this has some backing to it and it's not fluff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasboy Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 "It all goes at once, starting this fall."This is the response I got from an email I sent asking about construction start date and phasing of the project.It seems they are planning to build the whole thing at one time.Hope this has some backing to it and it's not fluff.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>wow. you actually got a response? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 "It all goes at once, starting this fall."This is the response I got from an email I sent asking about construction start date and phasing of the project.It seems they are planning to build the whole thing at one time.Hope this has some backing to it and it's not fluff.That's great news. I'm pretty excited. This project seems like it really might be what it takes to help revive that part of downtown. I have always hated that there are three adjacent blocks of surface parking right off Main St. It reminds me of a scar across downtown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Hizzy! Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I echo Subdude. The positive, for me, in this is that the development group has already completed similar projects across the country, with rousing success. The Denver Pavillions seems like an excellent template for the future Houston Pavillions, and I don't think there's a better location for it right now in Downtown Houston.So someone earlier (maybe Semipro?) mentioned a planned October ground breaking and now KJB was e-mailed a planned "Fall" start up date. Too bad it won't be up and running by the Big XII Championship Game or the NBA All-Star Weekend. Would've really been good for the festivities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I also reponded to email that if they would like to slowly put out more information (free advertising) through HAIF, I would be glad to post it.I think with the cross section of posters on here, it would be fairly easy to spread information about this project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Im shocked that someone on this planet actually knows how to bring a developement of this magnitude to fruition. Shocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I wonder what effect, if any, this will have on the existing Park mall or shops at Houston Center. Maybe positive if it draws more shoppers downtown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Hizzy! Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I also have fears that it will have a Memorial City versus Town & Country Center affect, too. But I guess that's natural when you're seeing something as new and as important coming online; you want it to succeed without canibalizing what already exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 The Shops are pretty crappy, even with the redo, so if this is a top-notch production, the Shops will be forced to respond in kind. Otherwise, they shut down. I like the prospect of the former, dread the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I'm hoping they will be able to serve different sectors and both be good.The Pavillons seems more like a nightime entertainment concept with some restraunts and stores open during the day.The important thing is for the Pavillons to bring in more residents to downtown proper. The will mean more customers to the Park Shops and possibly a renovation. I always thought the Park Shops was a great concept but never truly took off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houstonian in Iraq Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I wonder what effect, if any, this will have on the existing Park mall or shops at Houston Center. Maybe positive if it draws more shoppers downtown. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It might be a positive effect. The Houston Center might just look at the success of Houston Pavillions and invest loads to compete with them. Then this all could spur the much needed retail that downtown needs. We shall see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YakuzaIce Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Good news about the groundbreaking.Does anyone know what the four towers will hold? They look like residential towers, and the office/hotel markets seem to soft right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 It's supposed to be a mix of all those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Good news about the groundbreaking.Does anyone know what the four towers will hold? They look like residential towers, and the office/hotel markets seem to soft right now.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>It's hard to predict just based on overall market statistics. Look at downtown Dallas for example. They have a much higher office vacancy rate, and I believe a lower hotel occupancy rate than downtown Houston, and yet, there are several new hotels under development and at least one, if not several, new office buildings under development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasboy Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 The Park Shops will still be busy at lunchtime and workhours as usual. I don't really think the downtown workers really care about the urban environment or experience of shopping for clothes or eating at Houston Pavilions as long as they can get their food and go, which they can do at the Park Shops. For th people that work in the vicinity of Houston Pavilions, I think they will kepep it busy. Plus it seems like most of downtown's population is centered around this development. Commerce Towers, St Germain, Capitol Lofts, Houston House, Humble Tower, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunstar Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Any word on the tenants? Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that there would be a House of Blues, T-shirt store, pet shop, UNOS pizza, teather ball court, and a laser tag area. Not exactly enough to fill in a three-block retail development. One also has to wonder how a project like this can bring in new tenants when Bayou Place in the center of the Theater District can't get past phase I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasboy Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I am all for entertainment but I hope the Houston PAvilions has just as much clothing retail as the one in Denver. Some of the Denver clothing stores are ann taylor, banana republic, express, gap, journey's, nike town, and victoria's secret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Only time will tell. I have my fingers crossed for this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasboy Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Only time will tell. I have my fingers crossed for this one.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>As Houstonians I think we are a little impatient, but we should be on somethings though. *Cough* Shamrock *Cough*. I have an interest in projects that are going up in my hometown of LA, specifically the ones that will change downtown, and I have noticed they are just as slow with proposed and approved projects. I cannot even tell you how long I have been waiting for LA Live which is a Pavilions on steroids with a Times Square type theme with massive billboards giving off light pollution, but I think they have a little bit more patience than us because they have not given up on the project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 As Houstonians I think we are a little impatient, but we should be on somethings though. *Cough* Shamrock *Cough*. I have an interest in projects that are going up in my hometown of LA, specifically the ones that will change downtown, and I have noticed they are just as slow with proposed and approved projects. I cannot even tell you how long I have been waiting for LA Live which is a Pavilions on steroids with a Times Square type theme with massive billboards giving off light pollution, but I think they have a little bit more patience than us because they have not given up on the project.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Well, californians are known the world over for their more laid back approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonfella Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 That is funny.The reason there is no liquor in Texas drug stores derives from Texas' arcane and utterly nonsensical liquor laws, that are kept that way by very well paid lobbyists, paid by the very wealthy liquor wholesalers. Texas' "class" (or even lack thereof) has nothing to do with it. The number one reason all liquor is sold from a dedicated liquor store, is that since liquor cannot be sold after 9:00 pm, the store would have to close at that time. Profits, not class or public safety, drives this train. There have been numerous attempts to bring these Prohibition era laws into the 21st century, all to no avail. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Gosh, I thought I was the only one frustrated by Texas' funky liquor laws. You cannot buy wine or beer at Kroger before noon on Sunday. You can buy beer at the football stadium at 10 a.m. on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 No, houstonfella, all of us drunks have been frustrated by this stuff. It is especially annoying when a holiday falls on a Sunday.Apparently, you can now get a beer at festivals, also at 10:00 am on Sundays, though. I think they got rid of the dorky food requirement, as well. Remember buying peanuts with your beer to qualify as a meal? Brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Yeah,I still love being able to buy hard liquor early sunday morning back in southern Lousisiana. North Louisiana is a different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston-development Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Gosh, I thought I was the only one frustrated by Texas' funky liquor laws. You cannot buy wine or beer at Kroger before noon on Sunday. You can buy beer at the football stadium at 10 a.m. on Sunday. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> during the 1st year, technically (even though not enforced), you could not drink in the tailgating area prior to a noon kickoff. some legislation was passed to allow consumption at sporting events while eating/purchasing food. it will never be enforced in the tailgate area but it is inside the stadium. they make you buy a bag of peanuts with your drink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I prefer to frequent the drive-thru liquor stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InnerLoopOnly Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I prefer to frequent the drive-thru liquor stores. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I call BS. No way a principled urbanist such as yourself drives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Most new Urbanists include the vehicle as part of life. They just try to minimalize the use of it. Just look up New Urbanism on Google and you'll find out all kinds of stuff. Some are more serious than other. Most lifestyle centers and town center development are based on the New Urbanist principals minus the residential homes. New Urbanist would add the residential mid-rise and then a tight configuration of single family homes. If a new Urbanist would planning near a downtown area, they'll stick to the mid-rise condo/apartments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 and don't forget to add a 1/2 cup water, a dash of salt, and tada! the new urbanist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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