GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[eelimon]

Not being impressed with either the concept or the food of Hooters makes me small-minded?  That may be a first.  You should inquire about a marketing position with Hooters.  They could use some people that think Hooters is at the forefront of innovative dining.

You probably should reread my post.  Mine was the one that said downtown deserved better than tired mall stores.  I didn't say there should be NO chain stores.  I'm the one that thinks downtown should appeal to the adventurous, the one who wants something unique and exciting.  You tell me people want to feel comfortable at familiar places, then you tell me to look at downtown New Orleans?  I say, yeah, look at New Orleans, one of the most unique cities in the country.  That's what downtown Houston could use.  Comfortable, familiar people can frankly, go eat at Landry's.  They wouldn't like downtown no matter what we did.

If that is small minded, I'll take it as a compliment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On that note. Exit stage right.

[NewMND]

I think to get more people to actually live downtown, it needs to have places people know, like Chili's and Hooters, besides, those places would do great with the business lunch crowd, along with a Taco Bell and IHOP for anytime crowd. I don't think these places need to be on Main Street, just somewhere in downtown. Meanwhile, I think the north main area should be reserved for the trendy hip restaurants, the type you'd find on the Las Vegas Strip nowadays. And in Pavillions I think should have some of those touristy "exclusive" type chain places, like ESPN Zone or Emerils or something. I'm babbling.

[houstonfella]

I think to get more people to actually live downtown, it needs to have places people know, like Chili's and Hooters, besides, those places would do great with the business lunch crowd, along with a Taco Bell and IHOP for anytime crowd.  I don't think these places need to be on Main Street, just somewhere in downtown.  Meanwhile, I think the north main area should be reserved for the trendy hip restaurants, the type you'd find on the Las Vegas Strip nowadays.  And in Pavillions I think should have some of those touristy "exclusive" type chain places, like ESPN Zone or Emerils or something.  I'm babbling.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Babble on but you are right - ESPN Zone * Emeril's * shopping * and how about some lighting and glitz... that's the formula.

[eelimon]

This is a little off topic but does anyone know if the building at the corner of Main and Lamar going to be restored. Apparently the beautiful facade is under the modern facade. It was covered in the late 70's and is ugly in my opinion.

Anyhow this building is so close to this project I would think that it is in the works for preservation. It was originally called Rouse Drug Store Co.

Does anyone know anything?

[N Judah]

I'm sure there are national chain restaurants that would better serve the Main st demographic better than Hooters. The only problem is I can't think of any offhand right now. Hmmm....well, maybe a Beck's Prime would be good (if there isn't already one downtown).

[houstonsemipro]

IF they build the Pavilions and now the new proposal for the Astrodome. I think Houston could host any major events that comes its way. No doubt.

[eelimon]

I'm sure there are national chain restaurants that would better serve the Main st demographic better than Hooters.  The only problem is I can't think of any offhand right now.  Hmmm....well, maybe a Beck's Prime would be good (if there isn't already one downtown).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is a Beck's Prime in the Tunnels from what I understand it does very well. Plus Beck's Prime is slow on expansion. Recently they closed the one at the Galleria b/c of rent being too high.

A Fat Burger would be cool!

[The Great Hizzy!]

The Beck's Prime in the Tunnels is ALWAYS busy during lunch. They have to give the customers numbers after they order, and the wait can be as long as ten minutes after you've made your order.

I think Fuddrucker's would be an okay niche chain for DT, but the menu is limited so it's not quite the same. Cheesecake Factory would be an even better example, I suppose.

[cwrm4]

I think to get more people to actually live downtown, it needs to have places people know, like Chili's and Hooters, besides, those places would do great with the business lunch crowd, along with a Taco Bell and IHOP for anytime crowd.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A key to making downtown a "happening", sustainable place is to keep it busy at nights on weekdays, which means providing for out-of-town businesspeople, many of which are traveling solo.

I have a large number of out-of-town clients and co-workers come to town every week. 99 times out of a 100, they choose to stay in the Uptown/Galleria area, even if they are working downtown. Why? Because, when you are braindead after a day of meetings, and have work to do for the next day, you just want something known and familiar for dinner, and somewhere to wander around for a bit to clear your head. This means: a hamburger at Chili's and a walk around the Galleria.

Last year I had a co-worker in from NYC. When he arrived, he didn't have a hotel, and I pushed him towards the Magnolia. The next day I asked him how it was - "Great," he said "but I'm moving to the Westin Galleria tonight. I walked around for an hour last night and couldn't find anywhere to eat that wasn't either empty, looked like it might take forever, or had thumping music eminating from it. Plus, there's no bookstore to waste some time in".

[The Great Hizzy!]

"Great," he said "but I'm moving to the Westin Galleria tonight. I walked around for an hour last night and couldn't find anywhere to eat that wasn't either empty, looked like it might take forever, or had thumping music eminating from it. Plus, there's no bookstore to waste some time in".

Speaking of bookstores, I still say the empty parcel at the corner of Travis & Commerce (across from the Spaghetti Warehouse) would be a great place for a Barnes & Noble.

[tierwestah]

Not being impressed with either the concept or the food of Hooters makes me small-minded?

[RedScare]

Last year I had a co-worker in from NYC. When he arrived, he didn't have a hotel, and I pushed him towards the Magnolia. The next day I asked him how it was - "Great," he said "but I'm moving to the Westin Galleria tonight. I walked around for an hour last night and couldn't find anywhere to eat that wasn't either empty, looked like it might take forever, or had thumping music eminating from it. Plus, there's no bookstore to waste some time in".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since when do New Yorkers have a problem with crowds? And what time was he walking around? The thumping music doesn't start until at least nine o'clock (they don't even open till then), and I assume 'takes forever' means a restaurant with waiters? Besides, after 9:00 pm, none of the restaurants would be very crowded. I think he was pulling your leg.

[lwood]

IF they build the Pavilions and now the new proposal for the Astrodome. I think Houston could host any major events that comes its way. No doubt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Page F12 of today's Chronicle has a Notice of Public Hearing to consider amending the project plan and reinvestment zone that includes the Houston Pavilions project. It is called out by name in the exhibit attached to the notice.

[JR3985]

I saw that, I looks like they are going to expand the project along Main St. by one block.

[YakuzaIce]

I saw that, I looks like they are going to expand the project along Main St. by one block.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm I didn't see that, I will look for it in a sec. So is it now going to be on four blocks? Is that what you are saying?

[bachanon]

did anyone just see the story about the pavilions development on channel 13, six o'clock news? maybe they will rerun the story at 10PM. it sounded like the journalist followed our forum for her story. with the exception of it being presented to city council by the developer and his partner, there was no new news for us.

[RedScare]

If anyone was watching Channel 13 just now, you saw a lead story on none other than the Houston Pavillions. They made a presentation to Harris County Commissioners today, will appear before Houston City Council next week.

The purpose of the presentations is to see if city and county can cooperate on needed infrastructure improvements. Both of the developers appeared on camera, and both made it very clear they intend to build. The reporter however, while standing in front of the Scamrock lot, pointed out that lots of things are proposed, and many don't make it.

Timetable suggested it would open in 20 months.

Anyone know how to find city council's agenda for next week?

[citykid09]

^I was just about to say I saw it on abc13 then I saw y'alls! Guess I took to long! Well anyways they talked about the Shamrock and it not being built yet. The people building it say they are excited to build in Houston. They say there Denver one was sucessful, and they expect it to be even more so in Houston. And It wont be long till consturction begins. and that it could be done in about 20 months. GOOOOOOOD NEEEEEEEEEWWWS!!!!!!

They also said many of the council members don't know about it yet. We here at HAIF must get info really quickly. The city council should join HAIF!

They have this on their site now with video:

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/082305_local_downtown.html

[pineda]

Speaking of the Houston City Council meetings...

What's this all about???? (found in the minutes of today's council meeting)

"20. ORDINANCE granting the petition of THE WOODLANDS LAND DEVELOPMENT COMPANY, L.P. to include certain land in Montgomery County, Texas within the extraterritorial jurisdiction of the City of Houston; expanding and extending the extraterritorial jurisdiction of the City of Houston to include all of such land in accordance with section 42.022B of the Texas Local Government Code"

[RedScare]

SUBCHAPTER B. DETERMINATION OF EXTRATERRITORIAL JURISDICTION

Sec. 42.021. EXTENT OF EXTRATERRITORIAL JURISDICTION. The extraterritorial jurisdiction of a municipality is the unincorporated area that is contiguous to the corporate boundaries of the municipality and that is located:

(1) within one-half mile of those boundaries, in the case of a municipality with fewer than 5,000 inhabitants;

(2) within one mile of those boundaries, in the case of a municipality with 5,000 to 24,999 inhabitants;

(3) within two miles of those boundaries, in the case of a municipality with 25,000 to 49,999 inhabitants;

(4) within 3-1/2 miles of those boundaries, in the case of a municipality with 50,000 to 99,999 inhabitants; or

(5) within five miles of those boundaries, in the case of a municipality with 100,000 or more inhabitants.

Acts 1987, 70th Leg., ch. 149, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1987.

Sec. 42.022. EXPANSION OF EXTRATERRITORIAL JURISDICTION. (a) When a municipality annexes an area, the extraterritorial jurisdiction of the municipality expands with the annexation to comprise, consistent with Section 42.021, the area around the new municipal boundaries.

( The extraterritorial jurisdiction of a municipality may expand beyond the distance limitations imposed by Section 42.021 to include an area contiguous to the otherwise existing extraterritorial jurisdiction of the municipality if the owners of the area request the expansion.

Apparently, the city's ETJ extends through part of the Woodlands, but not all. The WOC asked the city to include the rest of the Woodlands in the ETJ. This could be for numerous reasons, but my guess is that since city restrictions extend to the ETJ, the WOC wanted those protections to cover all of the Woodlands. A prime example would be the city's billboard ordinance.

Remember, only cities can enact ordinances, not counties. The ETJ extends city protection to the Woodlands that Montgomery County cannot provide. Woodlands residents owe us Houstonians a debt of gratitude.

[citykid09]

Mabe if the Shamrock people see this on abc13 they will get imbarased and do something about it like build.

[kjb434]

^^^

hardly likely.

The group (if embarrassed) has already screwed the project beyond any chance of it being built. It'll take an entirely new developer.

I think the current developer would be quite embarrassed over his personal problems hurting the project currently.

[citykid09]

If they don't build, there will be a big empty spot there. Is there trailer still on that spot? If so why don't they leave? The joke is over! Mabe another developer will be something even better in that spot.

[RedScare]

As ground zero for the northern downtown revitalization, that lot WILL be developed. The only questions are when and what goes up. It may be frustrating to wait for it, but sitting on that lot is costing someone money, and eventually they will fish or cut bait.

[pineda]

Listening to the story on KTRK, they mentioned that the two developer guys had already done a similar project in Denver. Anyone here ever seen it? If so, what did you think of it, and would it work here?

[The Great Hizzy!]

I believe someone included pictures of the Denver Pavilions a while back in this thread. The design seems to be very similar to what's proposed for the Houston Pavilions, though it looks as if maybe the Houston Pavilions will have a slightly neater pedestrian corridor. Also, I think the residential component planned for the Houston Pavilions seems to be a tad larger but I could be wrong about that.

[pineda]

story in today's Chronicle about the new projects for downtown

[kjb434]

Good article.

Let's hope the city agrees on letting the TIRZ expand. Those districts have long been a great catalyst for development.

[citykid09]

I hope this thing is nothing like that complex where the Hard Rock Cafe is. I hate that place. Its emtpy everytime Im around. They need to more the Hard Rock Cafe some where else.

[hokieone]

Just thinking about public pressure, could anyone imagine what could cause the city to say no? I know that the developers are asking for help from the city, but I have a hard time believing there would be oppposition from many people. I think some projects are always debatable (the stadiums, light rail, the new astrodome project), but I just think this could be as slam dunk as it comes. I would think the return the city would see from an investment and redevelopment standpoint is just too large, not to mention the public image benefits.