Citizens National Bank At 402 Main St.

[RedScare]

Uhmm.. I think we got our burns crisscrossed. I was saying you burned him with the 'became municipality dates" (hence the part I bolded)... not the founding dates.

I cant explain or defend vertigo's claims since i think they're pretty silly.

My bad. C2H's post seemed to suggest the opposite, and I lumped yours with his. My apologies.

FWIW, here is a pretty cool link where I got most of my Houston numbers.

http://www.houstonhistory.com/decades/history5i.htm

As you look at the population increases, it is fairly clear when things started jumping. While Houston clearly began growing in the 1900s, it exploded after the War. LA exploded in the 1920s.

[Jax]

I guess I'm in the minority too. Give me a nice townhome inside the loop over anything in the Woodlands, Katy or Sugarland. I just don't see any reason to live way out there. So bland, uninteresting and chain infested. Sugarland seems ok but I still couldn't live there either. Inner city living imo has the best stores, restaurants, culture, museums, nightlife, mature trees and everything else.

Totally agree with you there. If I stay in Houston there's no chance I'll live in the burbs. It's more likely that I will move to a different metro area than move to Katy or Sugarland.

[crunchtastic]

  FWIW, here is a pretty cool link where I got most of my Houston numbers.

[url="http://www.houstonhistory.com/decades/history5i.htm"]http://www.houstonhistory.com/decades/history5i.htm[/url]

Hey, that is a cool link. Thanks Red. Out of curiosity I clicked on 1965-70 and was happy to see the Astrodome front and center. Not sure where stand on the tear it down/build a hotel debate, but as a kid I thought it was just the coolest place.

[Ethanra]

DT Houston 1955. The galleria and other areas have killed DT. I have heard stories from older generations about taking the bus DT to go shopping/eating and how it was exciting. You can look through the blog and see before and after pictures of DT. It is amazing the number of old buildings and shops that were torn down for parking lots. It truly is sad.......

[Jimcj5]

DT Houston 1955. The galleria and other areas have killed DT. I have heard stories from older generations about taking the bus DT to go shopping/eating and how it was exciting. You can look through the blog and see before and after pictures of DT. It is amazing the number of old buildings and shops that were torn down for parking lots. It truly is sad.......

The caption on those photos note that they're from a civil defense drill. I'd bet DT would look as packed today if such drills were still happening. I'll trade the city-wide exercise in imagining nuclear annihilation for less street level bustle any day.

I'll also trade the bus(!?) for my car, or any other means of locomotion.

[RedScare]

The caption on those photos note that they're from a civil defense drill.

So, I guess the Galleria didn't kill downtown. Reagan did.

[worldlyman]

Downtown Los Angeles.

I used to spend quite a bit of my time going to the Central L.A. Library on some weekdays.

Broadway in downtown is quite a terrific urban vista where those pics were taken. As someone said, you can definitely tell that the ship has definitely sailed away when it comes to "reviving" or "gentrifying" downtown. That part of downtown L.A. is most definitely a crowded shopping mecca for the poor, mostly Latino during the day. BUT...when the sun goes down (or after it's time to leave the library)...downtown Los Angeles shuts down. Better get to your car, buddy, before you lose sight of your own shadow!

Other parts of downtown L.A. that are new such as the Grand Ave area...are ironically terminally sterile with skinny sidewalks! Ain't that something.

I do enjoy downtown L.A.'s old Chinatown. It's not too bustling but it's still active enough for an urban excursion or meal. And it's not too scary in the daytime at all.

However...

I like downtown Houston the way it mixes the new with the old. Perhaps noticeably reliable commercial pedestrian activity will be more substantial as the Houston Pavilions is completed and humming.

Downtown Houston's weekend nightlife has stabilized. It's not the super crowded sidewalk club chic of 1998-2004 but rather a more casual place that offers a mix of bars, lounges and restaurants and a few clubs.

[danes75]

On the nightclubs issue. I'd have to agree with the poster that mentioned the "thug life" element killing downtown. It happened in Dallas with Deep Ellum and even a club my firm helped design (Blue). We created it to be "the" place to go with a restaurant, amazing sound system and light show, and several floors and VIP "levels" that, depending on the membership you purchased, you were given access to.

When it was done, it was amazing and billed as one of the downtown destinations to visit. My old business partner still lives there and said the last time he went (a year or so ago), they weren't charging a cover anymore and it was filled to the brim with pretend ghetto gangsters (that probably lived in Frisco or some suburbania) with big asses and boobs all hanging out everywhere. There was a supposed drug related shooting in the parking lot in 2005 which made it all the more thug-like.

I looked around and I don't even think the club is open anymore -- their website is down and there's a new one in its place called Cirque.

Edited January 31, 2008 by danes75

[Metro Matt]

On the nightclubs issue. I'd have to agree with the poster that mentioned the "thug life" element killing downtown. It happened in Dallas with Deep Ellum and even a club my firm helped design (Blue). We created it to be "the" place to go with a restaurant, amazing sound system and light show, and several floors and VIP "levels" that, depending on the membership you purchased, you were given access to.

When it was done, it was amazing and billed as one of the downtown destinations to visit. My old business partner still lives there and said the last time he went (a year or so ago), they weren't charging a cover anymore and it was filled to the brim with pretend ghetto gangsters (that probably lived in Frisco or some suburbania) with big asses and boobs all hanging out everywhere. There was a supposed drug related shooting in the parking lot in 2005 which made it all the more thug-like.

I looked around and I don't even think the club is open anymore -- their website is down and there's a new one in its place called Cirque.

The old Club Blue is now called Club Cirque, its been remodeled on the inside & is an improvement from what I've heard.

[musicman]

On the nightclubs issue. I'd have to agree with the poster that mentioned the "thug life" element killing downtown. It happened in Dallas with Deep Ellum and even a club my firm helped design (Blue). We created it to be "the" place to go with a restaurant, amazing sound system and light show, and several floors and VIP "levels" that, depending on the membership you purchased, you were given access to.

a good place is more than a place to go, it can't be created. it's the people than make the place IMO. if the people don't make it their own, they will go somewhere else.

[Vertigo58]

a good place is more than a place to go, it can't be created. it's the people than make the place IMO. if the people don't make it their own, they will go somewhere else.

Very true, you have to hang in there. That's why old places like Number's (lower Westheimer) have survived over the decades. Sambuca's downtown is another that keeps on going but I attribute that to the loyal following of some of the local bands that play there. In fact on any given night you will find people visiting there from around the world. Fact that it's close/walking distance to hotels helps too. When baseball season starts up many come here after the games so that packs em in.

Reality is people want change. There needs to be a topic started on how YOU would design an evening venue or dance club. Very different scenario than opening a typical bar. Imagination can go a long way.

[danes75]

Upon further research there doesn't seem to have been a remodel -- just a name change. Our design of the club cost nearly 8 million dollars -- I doubt they remodeled it again after just 4 years.

Guidelive says this: "Downtown

[KinkaidAlum]

Upon further research there doesn't seem to have been a remodel -- just a name change. Our design of the club cost nearly 8 million dollars -- I doubt they remodeled it again after just 4 years.

Guidelive says this: "Downtown

[danes75]

Quite frankly, the only thing I hate more than hanging out with wannabe rappers and thug kiddies (aka, your code word for DARK people) is hanging out with self important white people who need to buy memberships to access certain levels of a "club" and who then move on when anyone not as desireable as they are start to move in.

The only "club" worth anything in downtown was the old Power Tools. All the newbie stuff was built to eventually fail. Investing in "exciting and trendy" is STUPID. Trends in Houston change as soon as some wannabe The Hills star watches the new episode.

Reading the post might help. I didn't use code words. I quite blatantly said wannabe rappers and pretend ghetto gangsters. I'm not sure where the code words are in either of those terms.

It was brought up earlier in the topic about the

"gang-sta" scene, or rap for that matter. I dont like people making gangster references, glorifications of implied violence, and overtones of anger"

and shootings in both downtown Houston and the parking lot at a club in Dallas. Whether its black, white, hispanic, or even Asian, a culture (explained: rap & hip hop) that uses fear, denigration, and hate as a means to control others is not something most "young urban professionals" (explained: self-reliant, financially secure individuals) feel comfortable being around. No one likes being outside of their social group whether it be hipsters, rappers, or countryboys.

I mentioned kiddies in reference to the fact that large-scale 21 & up clubs in this area eventually lower their entrance age in order to keep their attendance up. Hence "kiddies" (explained: kiddies = 17 - 20.99 year olds).

Edited February 1, 2008 by danes75

[LESHOMME]

People of Houston, hear this...

When are you people going to face it?! Houston is never going to be NYC or San Francisco.... The city simply wasnt planned to be a dense urban setting. NYC is dense for a reason. Fact is, 10-15 years ago nobody even wanted to live in the inner city. NYC was the slums, and so was downtown Houston. If you haven't noticed, every movie for the 13-33 year old crowd is set in NYC, and now suddenly everyone wants to move back into the downtown areas of the city they live in. Face it, youre not going to get what you see on tv. Houston is never going to have blocks of brownstones and converted buildings like they have on the east coast. The best your going to get is going to be west u and the heights for a good mix or residential and commercial.

And as for the BLACK/WHITE comments going on. Give it a rest. Its the natural cycle of human nature. People NATURALLY tend to aspire to better things. Think of the jingle from that tv show "movin on up, to the east side..." What that means is the game never ends... Richer, better educated, stylish, "high" class people are always going to be chased out of their communites by poorer, ghetto, welfare check cashing, thugs... Its a game of cat and mouse.

Also, Black people stop being mad at white people!!! Its pretty lame... Its a fact that in the US the majority of lower income people are a minority, AND its a fact that of all the minorities in the US Black/African Americans are the largest. Its a fact that the majority of "higher" income people are white. google the prison ratios if you dont believe me. And its a fact that if you turn on BET anytime of the day your going to see thugs, gangsters, slang, purple cars!!, sloppy dressing, wild color clothes, etc.. I mean the channel is named after you! If you have a problem look within...

*noteable fact: im neither black, nor white...

[crunchtastic]

The only "club" worth anything in downtown was the old Power Tools. All the newbie stuff was built to eventually fail.

There's such a success story in Power Tools. It catered to punk/hardcore/dance/trance/hip hop all at the same time. Very cool. A natural offshoot of Rich's and Numbers, but with much broader appeal.

When PT opened, I was sort of club-weary. It really energized some of the old punk/dance club crowd in town.

Edited February 1, 2008 by crunchtastic

[musicman]

Quite frankly, the only thing I hate more than hanging out with wannabe rappers and thug kiddies (aka, your code word for DARK people)

LOL a thug can be any color.

[Gary]

People of Houston, hear this...

When are you people going to face it?! Houston is never going to be NYC or San Francisco.... The city simply wasnt planned to be a dense urban setting. NYC is dense for a reason. Fact is, 10-15 years ago nobody even wanted to live in the inner city. NYC was the slums, and so was downtown Houston. If you haven't noticed, every movie for the 13-33 year old crowd is set in NYC, and now suddenly everyone wants to move back into the downtown areas of the city they live in. Face it, youre not going to get what you see on tv. Houston is never going to have blocks of brownstones and converted buildings like they have on the east coast. The best your going to get is going to be west u and the heights for a good mix or residential and commercial.

And as for the BLACK/WHITE comments going on. Give it a rest. Its the natural cycle of human nature. People NATURALLY tend to aspire to better things. Think of the jingle from that tv show "movin on up, to the east side..." What that means is the game never ends... Richer, better educated, stylish, "high" class people are always going to be chased out of their communites by poorer, ghetto, welfare check cashing, thugs... Its a game of cat and mouse.

Also, Black people stop being mad at white people!!! Its pretty lame... Its a fact that in the US the majority of lower income people are a minority, AND its a fact that of all the minorities in the US Black/African Americans are the largest. Its a fact that the majority of "higher" income people are white. google the prison ratios if you dont believe me. And its a fact that if you turn on BET anytime of the day your going to see thugs, gangsters, slang, purple cars!!, sloppy dressing, wild color clothes, etc.. I mean the channel is named after you! If you have a problem look within...

*noteable fact: im neither black, nor white...

Can't wait to hear the response to this. Me, I'm not going to touch it. I'll just sit back and get entertained.

Edited February 1, 2008 by Gary

[musicman]

"high" class people are always going to be chased out of their communites by poorer, ghetto, welfare check cashing, thugs...

this works both ways.

[danes75]

There's such a success story in Power Tools. It catered to punk/hardcore/dance/trance/hip hop all at the same time. Very cool. A natural offshoot of Rich's and Numbers, but with much broader appeal.

When PT opened, I was sort of club-weary. It really energized some of the old punk/dance club crowd in town.

What happened to PT?

[crunchtastic]

What happened to PT?

Dead like every other club in the mid-late 90s. It lasted longer than most. It did contribute to slummers and clubbers turning Warrens into a "place."

[RedScare]

"young urban professionals" (explained: self-reliant, financially secure individuals)

Driving a leased BMW 3 series and maxing out credit cards to hang out in the "VIP" room is "self reliant, financially secure"?

The economy is going to tank worse than I thought.

[memebag]

this works both ways.

Amen.

Mr. Garrison: Chef, what did you do when white people stole your culture?

Chef: Oh. Well, we black people just always tried to stay out in front of them.

Mr. Slave: [straightens up] How did you do that?

Chef: Well, like with our slang. Black people always used to say, "I'm in the house" instead of "I'm here." But then white people all started to say "in the house" so we switched it to "in the hizzouse." Hizzouse became hizzizzouse, and then white folk started saying that, and we had to change it to hizzie, then "in the hizzle" which we had to change to "hizzle fo shizzle," and now, because white people say "hizzle fo shizzle," we have to say "flippity floppity floop."

Mr. Garrison: [slumps forward] We don't have time for all that, Chef! Oh, if only those Queer Eye For the Straight Guy people understood what they were doing. [thinks] Wait. [rises] That's it! I know exactly what to do! [yanks on Mr. Slave's leash] Come on, Mr. Slave! Let's get back to our flippity floppity floop. [exits the front door with Mr. Slave]

Chef: Oh no! Damnit! Don't call it that! [the door closes]

Edited February 1, 2008 by memebag

[musicman]

It did contribute to slummers and clubbers turning Warrens into a "place."

warren's was a place before power tools.

[Vertigo58]

What happened to PT?

It disappeared ages ago. I'm glad one day I took a camera and snapped most of the crazy crowd. For some reason the term "house music" was everywhere. I recall a bunch of neon colored, glow in the dark pastels on the walls. There was the balcony where you could mingle and see the bayou below. I heard that a flood filled the place years later. I personally did not care much for this crowd as it was more of the preppy-wanna-be-cool crowd. I think only one night a week there was that new thing called rap music other than that it was mostly progressive, tech-no, new, high energy, etc...........I knew it wouldnt last.

You just couldnt top the European/English/Brit UK music at the other older underground clubs.

[crunchtastic]

warren's was a place before power tools.

True, but my memories of Warren's in the mid 80s was as a hard-drinking hole popular with the newspaper folks, and a small smattering of college students (my crowd) wanting a crusty, Charles Bukowski type of ambience.

[musicman]

True, but my memories of Warren's in the mid 80s was as a hard-drinking hole popular with the newspaper folks, and a small smattering of college students (my crowd) wanting a crusty, Charles Bukowski type of ambience.

still is. it's younger crowd that wants the apple martinis/chocolate martinis/etc. not sure they'll succumb to that crowd. at least i hope they don't.

[danes75]

Driving a leased BMW 3 series and maxing out credit cards to hang out in the "VIP" room is "self reliant, financially secure"?

The economy is going to tank worse than I thought.

Again, I think you too misread. That's the MO of the wannabe-hip crowd. The ones that can't actually afford the lifestyle they're trying to emulate.

You can watch these creatures in the wild at Meteor. Gays are some of the worst.

[LTAWACS]

Anyone know where the Bollywood club/bar is located?

[LTAWACS]

That's a shame. It's one of the best looking places in town.

I'd have to disagree. You'd think they could build a better design. It looks nothing more than a few boxes glued together. I mean, they couldn't have even put a pool on the huge expanse of roof. ugh.