Citizens National Bank At 402 Main St.

[Jax]

Downtown Houston last Saturday at 10 pm. Sorry for the quality - I was shooting at night with no tripod and ISO 1600.

[RedScare]

Wow, great photos. Those streets are sure crowded compared to downtown Houston!

I can't help but imagine what HAIF posters would say if they saw THAT downtown. With the number of people that go into full panic mode if a panhandler asks for some spare change, and the screams that Main Street went ghetto because club-goers are Black, a scene like those pictured above would cause a caucasian calamity.

[713 To 214]

Where's all of the traffic and throngs of people I've been reading about?

[MetroMogul]

I can't help but imagine what HAIF posters would say if they saw THAT downtown. With the number of people that go into full panic mode if a panhandler asks for some spare change, and the screams that Main Street went ghetto because club-goers are Black, a scene like those pictured above would cause a caucasian calamity.

LMAO. Ah, so true.

And looking at the pics of LA's downtown comapred to Houston's is so embarrassing. That's like 1/10th of the traffic on a good night back in 2004.

[RedScare]

Where's all of the traffic and throngs of people I've been reading about?

They moved on a couple of years ago. In 2004...the heyday...the sidewalks AND street would be jammed from Preston to Texas. It would be a mild crowd until 10 pm, then, all at once the crowds would descend on Main from everywhere. I owned a restaurant on Prairie back then, and would walk around to look at it. Traffic would be bumper to bumper on Texas and Prairie east and west, and San Jacinto and Fannin north and south. It was impressive.

I was downtown a couple of Fridays ago, and though there were crowds, the crushing crowds and traffic were long gone. Frankly, I liked it better without the mob scene.

[713 To 214]

They moved on a couple of years ago. In 2004...the heyday...the sidewalks AND street would be jammed from Preston to Texas. It would be a mild crowd until 10 pm, then, all at once the crowds would descend on Main from everywhere. I owned a restaurant on Prairie back then, and would walk around to look at it. Traffic would be bumper to bumper on Texas and Prairie east and west, and San Jacinto and Fannin north and south. It was impressive.

I was downtown a couple of Fridays ago, and though there were crowds, the crushing crowds and traffic were long gone. Frankly, I liked it better without the mob scene.

I knew that, already. However, a few members of this forum, including you, have attempted to pass DT of as some sort of entertainment mecca for Houston. I'm just glad that the truth has finally been acknowledged. Now, an honest debate can begin about where we want to see DT Houston go, and how to get there. It's like an alcoholic who refuses to admit he/she has a problem. . .you can't help him/her unless/until (s)he does. Red, you're one of the most intelligent members of this forum, and many others follow your lead. I only hope you lead them in the right direction...for the overall betterment of Houston!

[Jax]

There may not be throngs of people, but name one part of Houston where you see more people out walking (day or night)...

[MetroMogul]

I knew that, already. However, a few members of this forum, including you, have attempted to pass DT of as some sort of entertainment mecca for Houston. I'm just glad that the truth has finally been acknowledged. Now, an honest debate can begin about where we want to see DT Houston go, and how to get there. It's like an alcoholic who refuses to admit he/she has a problem. . .you can't help him/her unless/until (s)he does. Red, you're one of the most intelligent members of this forum, and many others follow your lead. I only hope you lead them in the right direction...for the overall betterment of Houston!

I think some sort of clubbing district should be opened on Westpark in advance of the University line, kind of like how alot of the clubs opened up in anticipation of the Red Line.

[dalparadise]

I can't help but imagine what HAIF posters would say if they saw THAT downtown. With the number of people that go into full panic mode if a panhandler asks for some spare change, and the screams that Main Street went ghetto because club-goers are Black, a scene like those pictured above would cause a caucasian calamity.

Actually, minus probably 3/4 the people on the street and half the "retail", those photos look like Main St. Houston about twelve years ago. I believe I remember your saying how terrible that was in another thread.

No caucasian calamity here. I don't find those pictures particularly appealing, though. The streetscape is similar to North Main, just across the bayou from Downtown, or maybe Harrisburg Blvd. -- both areas similar, proportionally and logistically speaking -- to the area of LA pictured. Yeah, it's sort of Downtown, but it isn't really what you go to for the "Downtown experience". It also isn't the Downtown people are really talking about when they think about building in new residential and retail. Whether it should be or not, is probably another discussion. LA doesn't currently have an area central to Downtown that's like Houston's...holy crap, now I'm starting to sound like those Dallas posters...

[RedScare]

Actually, I was never one that was overly impressed with the one-sided niteclub scene downtown. Niteclubs are what they are. They only appeal to the under-30 crowd. I was always rooting for something with more staying power...restaurants, bars and lounges. I am not the least bit upset to see the club scene die downtown. They'll be replaced with something that will better serve the downtown clientele of business people, (a few) residents and sports fans.

That is not to say that a club district is not useful, only that I would rather it be somewhere other than Main Street. But, then again, I passed my clubbing age a couple of years back. This is my selfish wish.

[dalparadise]

Actually, I was never one that was overly impressed with the one-sided niteclub scene downtown. Niteclubs are what they are. They only appeal to the under-30 crowd. I was always rooting for something with more staying power...restaurants, bars and lounges. I am not the least bit upset to see the club scene die downtown. They'll be replaced with something that will better serve the downtown clientele of business people, (a few) residents and sports fans.

That is not to say that a club district is not useful, only that I would rather it be somewhere other than Main Street. But, then again, I passed my clubbing age a couple of years back. This is my selfish wish.

Yes, on all these points we are in complete agreement.

[Jax]

Are you comparing that photo of downtown LA to "North Main, just across the bayou from Downtown" ???? Seriously? I had to go to a place near North Main and Hogan once. There were very few people around and no tall buildings and no urban style street retail. All I saw was a mexican grocery store with a huge parking lot called "El Guero" and a hamburger place with picnic table seating out front and another big parking lot. In that photo of LA, the buildings are packed together with no space in between and they all seem to have retail on the ground and apartments above. They also seem to be 5-10 stories, and there are no parking lots.

The streetscape of North Main is nothing like downtown LA in that photo!

Anybody got any photos of North Main to compare? This is the closest I've got (taken about one block from North Main and Hogan).

[ToolMan]

They moved on a couple of years ago. In 2004...the heyday...the sidewalks AND street would be jammed from Preston to Texas. It would be a mild crowd until 10 pm, then, all at once the crowds would descend on Main from everywhere. I owned a restaurant on Prairie back then, and would walk around to look at it. Traffic would be bumper to bumper on Texas and Prairie east and west, and San Jacinto and Fannin north and south. It was impressive.

I miss the Firehouse Philly and Limelite days...

[dalparadise]

Are you comparing that photo of downtown LA to "North Main, just across the bayou from Downtown" ???? Seriously? I had to go to a place near North Main and Hogan once. There were very few people around and no tall buildings and no urban style street retail. All I saw was a mexican grocery store with a huge parking lot called "El Guero" and a hamburger place with picnic table seating out front and another big parking lot. In that photo of LA, the buildings are packed together with no space in between and they all seem to have retail on the ground and apartments above. They also seem to be 5-10 stories, and there are no parking lots.

The streetscape of North Main is nothing like downtown LA in that photo!

Anybody got any photos of North Main to compare? This is the closest I've got (taken about one block from North Main and Hogan).

Yeah, Harrisburg is probably much closer, but North Main just past the tunnel is what I was talking about. Not far up, where that photo is taken. I agree that it isn't really all that comparable -- proportionally it seems like a comparison, though. LA is about 3 times larger than Houston. Those shots seem about 3 times more built up than the areas I was talking about.

[musicman]

There may not be throngs of people, but name one part of Houston where you see more people out walking (day or night)...

med center

[Jax]

Yeah, in the day there are people directly around Dryden station, but not as many people and not in the rest of the med center.. The night crowds downtown extend more than one block.

[Houston19514]

Actually, I was never one that was overly impressed with the one-sided niteclub scene downtown. Niteclubs are what they are. They only appeal to the under-30 crowd. I was always rooting for something with more staying power...restaurants, bars and lounges. I am not the least bit upset to see the club scene die downtown. They'll be replaced with something that will better serve the downtown clientele of business people, (a few) residents and sports fans.

That is not to say that a club district is not useful, only that I would rather it be somewhere other than Main Street. But, then again, I passed my clubbing age a couple of years back. This is my selfish wish.

Ditto. Also, it was insane to have the club district around the backbone of the rail system (the Red Line), requiring them to actually shut down the rail line at times of high use of the club district. That was just not sustainable.

[Jax]

They actually shut down the metro because of the clubs?

[MetroMogul]

They actually shut down the metro because of the clubs?

I only remember that happening during the Superbowl. Ahhhh, the heady days of 2004. We thought Houston had finally made it as a clubbing and nitelife city.

[Houston19514]

They actually shut down the metro because of the clubs?

Yes, it happened more than once. And on other occasions, the trains had to slow to a crawl to get through that area. Insanity to intentionally promote street parties and clubs on the street where the backbone of your rail system runs.

[mkultra25]

I can't help but imagine what HAIF posters would say if they saw THAT downtown. With the number of people that go into full panic mode if a panhandler asks for some spare change, and the screams that Main Street went ghetto because club-goers are Black, a scene like those pictured above would cause a caucasian calamity.

Last time I was in LA a few years ago, I walked a fair portion of the area in those pics, although it wasn't quite as crowded the day I was there. The Los Angeles Conservancy sponsors walking tours of LA's Broadway Theater District on a weekly basis, and I'd highly recommend those tours to any HAIFers who happen to be in the area. There's an amazing concentration of old theaters within an area of a few square blocks; you can see several of the marquees in the pictures. Although we weren't able to go inside all the theaters on the tour (some, like the gorgeous Los Angeles, are open only for special events), most of them were accessible.

Los Angeles Conservancy

[Jax]

the cuban place was already closed. pete's had a sign labor day saying they were closed for 3 days.....employees weren't told a thing.....they went back....and well....it isn't reopening. it was one of maybe two restuarnts that was still open since the rail.....mia bella hang in there!!!!!!!

EDIT: i biked downttown tonight....VERY ghetto.

The latin place I was talking about (used to be called Bossa I think, and I'm not so sure it was Cuban) has re-opened as a martini bar / steak house. That was a pretty quick turnaround.

I walked around downtown tonight, not ghetto at all, very active and lots of people around. Most places around main and market square seemed pretty packed.

[musicman]

The latin place I was talking about (used to be called Bossa I think, and I'm not so sure it was Cuban) has re-opened as a martini bar / steak house. That was a pretty quick turnaround.

I walked around downtown tonight, not ghetto at all, very active and lots of people around. Most places around main and market square seemed pretty packed.

i went downtown last night. the HPD presence was obvious and resulted in way less homeless.

[barracuda]

The latin place I was talking about (used to be called Bossa I think, and I'm not so sure it was Cuban) has re-opened as a martini bar / steak house. That was a pretty quick turnaround.

I walked around downtown tonight, not ghetto at all, very active and lots of people around. Most places around main and market square seemed pretty packed.

Yeah, it's not surprising that Bossa closed. It was horrible! It was by far the worst restaurant in Houston, and expensive at that. Glad to see a different restaurant has taken it's place, but hopefully it's not the same owners/chef.

[Jax]

Before I became a student at Rice, my supervisor took me out to that place and a show at the Alley Theater as part of a university tour. I agree, it wasn't what that great. I ordered a ceviche hoping for something like the Peruvian stuff I'm used to, and I basically got a bowl of salsa with a few shrimp on top!

I hope the new place makes it. It's a great location - as long as the food is good I'm sure it will do fine.

Edited September 23, 2007 by Jax

[ricco67]

With the plethora of restaurants around the city, it makes me wonder how BAD it had to be for it to be closed? I see even your small mom and pop places packed during the day all around town.

[musicman]

Houston is a hard restaurant town. We have lots of good reasonably priced places. in order to survive you have to be decent. This is why many of the mediocre chains close here.

[mkultra25]

Houston is a hard restaurant town. We have lots of good reasonably priced places. in order to survive you have to be decent. This is why many of the mediocre chains close here.

I agree, and I believe a key reason is that tourism is essentially nonexistent in Houston, so restaurants that hope to make it here have to be at least halfway decent in order to cultivate repeat business from locals. They can't get away with charging inflated prices and serving subpar food for very long, unlike in locales where a significant chunk of the business comes from tourists.

[jim1960]

I live, work and own property downtown... for 12 years now. I have watched the entire story of downtown redevelopment first hand. I don't wish to write a book here but i have a lot of opinions on downtown nightlife.

A business at night cannot depend on the random patrons walking the streets to wander in and sustain the place...Sunday through Wednesday is extremely sparce of anyone excepting the homeless which duh don't sustain a business. But i view this lack of activity as an opening for creative ideas to make a place a destination point without all the hassels of finding a parking place on the street. There also becomes a greater sense of ownership and oppurtunity to define niche ideas that might inspire other entrepreneurs to follow suit and give the nightlife a distinctive personality. For one thing the city needs to give Caroline a break over at Warren's and approve her patio permit ( the smoking ban has been a disaster for Warren's and Charbar) Possibly remove the parking inset to become sidewalk giving the necessary access and allowing smoking outside at those two establishments that so much represent the good and unique in downtown nightlife. Grumpy old men got to drink and apparently smoke. One thimg i have noticed about the smoking ban is relatively empty bars with patios make the street seem more alive and the bar more busy( everybody is outside... smoking) The major thing that must happen is with property owners letting go of an outdated rent structure based on the good ol days before the superbowl. And with a lower rent structure some of these creative ideas might have a chance to originate and survive. And downtown will again be an interesting and unique destination point at night

[moni]

Wow, great photos. Those streets are sure crowded compared to downtown Houston!

This is a neighborhood picture. The Mexican part of town has a lot of activity most of the time, especially on Saturdays. Tourists also come here because they are a lot of things to see and do. There is a downtown market right near the financial district, that is wonderful, and it is not just for Mexicans, but Asians and U.S. Anglos too. They sell produce, lots of great fish and poultry with specialty cuts of steaks, good stuff, and it is right in the middle of downtown. They also have several restaurants inside, very cheap but tasty food. Open air bars are normal and you can sit right next to the sidewalks and have a beer, when I first moved to LA, I loved that open feeling. No fancy patios, just a bar with stools. You can get tons of fresh produce at very low prices and many people visit via the bus, you can see families carrying big bags of food on to buses. Obviously, if you want people to come downtown, you have to provide something they want. I really believe that if the Grand Central Market was transported to downtown Houston, you would see the people come in droves. LA's Grand Central Market is a gem.

Edited September 26, 2007 by moni