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Frankly, bachanon and Mark's use of debatable statistics as a reason to oppose this ad is the same argument that can be used to support it. And, of course Fox was not medicated. You do not mask the disease that you are trying to discuss.

My discomfort comes from the forum in which the ad was used. If Fox were asking for support for a Parkinsons foundation, fine. Showing the debilitating effects of a disease is a good way to garner support for eradicating it, just as aid organizations show the effects of malnutrition on children in Third World countries. However, this is a house race in Missouri. Running an ad such as this runs the risk that the recoil is greater than the good. As bachanon stated, the Democrat has unmistably branded herself as a one issue politician. Just as the aborted fetus ads do for Republicans, that is a narrow, dangerous road to travel.

Personally, I likened the ad to the VW car crash commercials. That may be a fine attribute for a car, just as supporting stem cell research is a fine attribute for a politician, but I don't need the graphic visual.

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my dad has it. he (my dad) will not vote "pro-stem cell research" because he knows that it is not a "sure fire" cure all. it is a small possibility. fox's motive is to use his affliction to promote his political views. it is sad. we (our family) live with parkinson's every day. we will not vote for candidates who's sole claim to fame is the determination to fund or allow stem cell research. there are other technologies and methods. the hype, and it is HYPE, that stem cell research will cure parkinson's is naive. this is hyperbole that feeds on the needs and hopes of an uneducated populace.

Suppose gene therapy derived from research done on stem cells becomes available as a treatment for Parkinson's. Is your father prepared to forgo it, as a matter of principle? Would you withhold it from him?

If medical research was limited to 'sure-fire' cures, we would still be in the dark ages. It is only through experimentation - trial and error - that we progress. And before you dismiss those who believe differently from you as "an uneducated populace" perhaps you should specify how your own qualifications exempt you from that group.

My condolences to your father and your family.

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Red you've boiled it down to what I was basically trying to get at. I have no moral issues with stem-cell research one way or another. I am a pro-choice when it comes to abortion, to me life begins when the doctor slaps your ass and you take your first breath. Some Zealots like to believe it begins at conception, I think that's a bit ridiculous, but that's just me. I feel the same way in the stem cell issue.

However, to exploit yourself for political reason, and then expect to be treated with kid gloves, is ridiculous. You play in the street you take the chance of being hit by a car. Whether or not the driver of that car is a drunk idiot or not is irreverent. If you weren't in the street you wouldn't get hit. I am no big fan of Rush, he's a Zealot in his own right, but he feeds the fuel of trying to boost his ratings or sell his next book, by being an extremist. To throw him in as a mouthpiece for all republicans is wrong, because you will not hear him speaking for me. He has his times when he makes a good point every now and then. But I have a broken watch that's right twice a day. You don't see Rush attacking the Telethon when Jerry marches out some unfortunate child suffering from MD or MS or whatever, or anyone attacking the Petty's when they do the documentaries at the Victory Junction Gang (of which I am a huge supporter) and they have all different types of physically challenged kids to try and raise money for their cause. But if you cross into politics and try exploiting your issue to help someone gain election you crossed the line. I think he was attack because of the platform not the fact that he has the disease. It becomes a circus freak show when things are exaggerated and exploited for political gain.

Since our nmainguy referred us to the CBS MJF interview with Couric, click on the link for the video. Watch it carefully. He starts out with your basic tremors and ticks, and they are genuine I am certain. But keep watching as the subject changes and evolves to the political edge instead of the medical edge, he starts getting worse. So bad he knocks is mic off and Katie practically kneels at his feet to put it back on, instead of breaking to commercial like they normally would to get things fixed up. However they don't. Now all of these ticks and rocking are involuntary according to MJF himself, uncontrollable he says. How is it when Katie goes to put his mic on he manages to get "almost" practically still, aside from a twitch in his foot? And as soon as she's finished, he went back to the Hula dance, in his chair. Looks like an exaggerated visual to try and promote politics to me. That to me is wrong, just like the BS kissing baby pose used down over the years by most politicians. I am not trying to belittle the effects of the disease, just his exploiting it in an exaggerated format for the purpose of getting somebody elected. I have no problem with my tax money going to research any kind of disease, but the politics I have a lot of issues with.

If medical research was limited to 'sure-fire' cures, we would still be in the dark ages. It is only through experimentation - trial and error - that we progress. And before you dismiss those who believe differently from you as "an uneducated populace" perhaps you should specify how your own qualifications exempt you from that group.

My condolences to your father and your family.

The Medical field is nothing but trial and error. The is no such thing as a sure cure for anything.

"Take two of these and call me tomorrow. If this doesn't work we'll try something else. We need to run more tests"

That's all you hear, it is guess work at best. Thank Goodness there are educated guesses being made, but it is not an exact science. Any doctor will tell you that. If one doesn't believe that, run from him because he is a quack.

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I was wondering when M.Fox, might come up. I don't care that M.Fox used his disease to try and sway voters. What I find to be B.S. is that he decided NOT to take his drugs, and he never does, when he gets in front of a camera to talk about his disease. He ought to stay with his daily routine of drugs that OBVIOUSLY help him, and make his tremors non-existent. He just shows the one side of the diease and not the treatment that is avaialbe NOW. So, he muddies the waters with saying that if you don't vote Dem. that you have no hope of a cure or possible treatment for the disease, and that is just wrong. Everyone knows he has it, everyone knows he takes treatment for it. Why not show another spot with him on his meds, and how calm he is and isn't throwing and swaying so wildly. HE is playing towards the publics fears, that "if this can happen to me, it can happen to YOU !" Bottomline though, show that there has been leaps and bounds concerning treatments and operations to stop tremors. MJ should have shown both sides.

BTW, as a Republican, you will all be shocked to know that I actually think Stemcell research SHOULD be allowed. Man has been trying to play GOD since day one. I don't think GOD would be too upset if we realized our own potential. We are just a giant antfarm for HIM in the first place. He has let us make a fake heart, he lets us transplant organs. I have seen no consequences for these "acts". Might as well take it to the Nth level.

Edited by TJones
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the manipulative tactics of the political ad are pretty obvious - but it is an advertisement, after all, trying to sell something (and on television, no less, so millions of morons are susceptible :D ).

i wish folks could just stick to the facts, without the embellishments

Edited by sevfiv
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i just hate how people argue about stem cell research. This has been going on for yrs already! Tons of federal funding too! They should really be arguing embryonic stem cells vs. adult stem cells. Adult stem cell research has been funded and done for years. To say that one party is for/against stem cell research is wrong.

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I was wondering when M.Fox, might come up. I don't care that M.Fox used his disease to try and sway voters. What I find to be B.S. is that he decided NOT to take his drugs, and he never does, when he gets in front of a camera to talk about his disease. He ought to stay with his daily routine of drugs that OBVIOUSLY help him, and make his tremors non-existent.

This is precisely the problem with Rush shooting off his mouth about MJF faking and not taking his drugs. People then take this mis-information as fact. According to MJF, who probably knows a bit more about Parkinson's than Rushblow, the tremors are the side affects of the drug he has to take for Parkinson's. Parkinson patients who are off of their regimen become quite immobil.

Edited by west20th
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i just hate how people argue about stem cell research. This has been going on for yrs already! Tons of federal funding too! They should really be arguing embryonic stem cells vs. adult stem cells. Adult stem cell research has been funded and done for years. To say that one party is for/against stem cell research is wrong.

Agreed.

This is precisely the problem with Rush shooting off his mouth about MJF faking and not taking his drugs. People then take this mis-information as fact. According to MJF, who probably knows a bit more about Parkinson's than Rushblow, the tremors are the side affects of the drug he has to take for Parkinson's. Parkinson patients who are off of their regimen become quite immobil.

If you read the entire transcript or watch the entire 23 minute internet interview-which-BTW, Barnes- takes no commercial breaks, you would have known he was on his drugs and gave a lengthy explaination on their varying effects. You also would have heard him speak highly of Republicans he supports.

But I guess that's not as important or as titilating as the Republican's hero Limbaugh slamming of a sincere person's efforts to raise awareness, raise money and publicly support lawmakers-Democrat and Republican-who hold more power over this issue than any of us ever will.

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The tremors are not a side affect, they are what is being quelled by the drugs. MJ did NOT take his drugs to stop his symptoms, and the effect of his not taking his drugs showed to the camera, those are his tremors, that in effect IS faking, because MJ doesn't normally let himself act like that and he USUALLY takes his drugs. Parkinson's is a horrible disease, but it has treatments, that although don't "cure" the ailment, it certainly enables most to go back to and lead a somewhat normal life before the disease took affect. MJ's mistake, is that he doesn't present BOTH sides. He only goes off his meds when it furthers his cause, when it is known that he does not normally go without his meds, and his treatments.

Rush was wrong to say MJ was outright "faking", I think what Rush meant was that MJ was embelishing a bit on the swaying motions, thinking that MJ wouldn't go off his meds and actually WANT to have to be in that heartbreaking state of uncontrol. Rush was more thinking outloud, and was proved to be a dumbass for his statements. I like Rush, and listen to him regularly, doesn't mean I agree with everything he says.

btw Nmain, MJ did an interview about 6 to 8 months ago on like GMA, where he claimed that he doesn't take his meds when he does a speaking gig, or a PSA in order to show the full effect of the disease on him. When he does acting though, he takes his whole regimine and you see how straight he is on those shows.

Edited by TJones
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The tremors are not a side affect, they are what is being quelled by the drugs. MJ did NOT take his drugs to stop his symptoms, and the effect of his not taking his drugs showed to the camera, those are his tremors, that in effect IS faking, because MJ doesn't normally let himself act like that and he USUALLY takes his drugs.

So you KNOW MJF did not take his drugs. How do you know this, because Rush says so or are you just omniscient? Even Rush has conceded that MJF couldn't have "faked" those tremors by simply not taking his drugs. Read the following link or the excerpt from it.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=51219

Even better, it turns out Dr. Weiner has a phone. When I reached him, he said he'd seen the ad earlier in the day and was fairly surprised to hear about Limbaugh's reaction. Here's why:

What you are seeing on the video is side effects of the medication. He has to take that medication to sit there and talk to you like that. ... He's not over-dramatizing. ... [Limbaugh] is revealing his ignorance of Parkinson's disease, because people with Parkinson's don't look like that at all when they're not taking their medication. They look stiff, and frozen, and don't move at all. ... People with Parkinson's, when they've had the disease for awhile, are in this bind, where if they don't take any medication, they can be stiff and hardly able to talk. And if they do take their medication, so they can talk, they get all of this movement, like what you see in the ad.

Edited by west20th
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So you KNOW MJF did not take his drugs. How do you know this, because Rush says so or are you just omniscient? Even Rush has conceded that MJF couldn't have "faked" those tremors by simply not taking his drugs. Read the following link or the excerpt from it.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=51219

And like I said earlier, if people would slow down and read the transcript and/or watch the ENTIRE interview, you would see Fox explained the side effects; Fox was on meds for the interview and Fox works with both sides of the aisle.

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Suppose gene therapy derived from research done on stem cells becomes available as a treatment for Parkinson's. Is your father prepared to forgo it, as a matter of principle? Would you withhold it from him?

If medical research was limited to 'sure-fire' cures, we would still be in the dark ages. It is only through experimentation - trial and error - that we progress. And before you dismiss those who believe differently from you as "an uneducated populace" perhaps you should specify how your own qualifications exempt you from that group.

My condolences to your father and your family.

my point was that we would not vote for a politician whose claim to fame was solely on supporting or denying funding for stem cell research. there are other issues more urgent.

the scientists i've met in cancer and genetic research tell me that this is purely a political issue. the actual benefits of one particular kind of stem cell research will not be a cure all, nor are benefits right around the corner. people suffering from parkinson's disease will not see benefits in their lifetime from stem cell research. there are current technologies and treatments available that extend quality of life for many parkinson's patients.

the "uneducated populace" i speak of is a generalization of persons who base their opinions based on mass media hype without much information deeper than a headline or a news blip.

condolences are not necessary, but thank you. parkinson's is not a death sentence.

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And like I said earlier, if people would slow down and read the transcript and/or watch the ENTIRE interview, you would see Fox explained the side effects; Fox was on meds for the interview and Fox works with both sides of the aisle.

MJF did an interview awhile back with Ray Preston, and in that interview Fox makes the claim that he does INDEED go off his meds to show people how it has ravaged his body. He apparently was off the meds when he went before congress also, so it isn't that far fetched an idea that he was off in those ads. MJ has shown to do it in the past. I will believe MJ, he says he wasn't off his meds, and he is the only one that would truly know whether or not that is the truth, except maybe his wife, and I don't think she would rat him out.

I needed to edit this. I was wrong, I don't think he admitted it to Ray Preston, it was in fact Diane Sawyer on GMA, just like I remembered from a few months back. MJ also makes mention of it in his book, 'Lucky Man'.

Edited by TJones
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Hare is the Ray Preston interview

http://www.kmov.com/sharedcontent/VideoPla...9&catId=140

you may have to register to see it, I did.

Didn't see where he admitted to altering his meds, just trying to be fair, there is enough BS in this world without more being added. I saw in several other forum people claiming he said it in this video too. But I sought out the video to see it for myself and I didn't see it. This is raw footage but all there. Taped 10/6/06

Here's a better link

http://www.kmov.com/sharedcontent/VideoPla...oxinterview.wmv

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First Limbaugh and now this?

Well, at least she apologized...sort of...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/20...in_x.htm?csp=34

I don't know about you Republicans but my mom taught us never to kick a cripple-but that was just her way. ;)

This is a clear case of "he,said, she said" nmain. He was slingin' mud, trying to play the victim. I highly doubt Cubin said, "if you weren't sittin' in that chair." as if to refer that if he wasn't in a wheelchair, he'd get slapped. I am sure it wasn't said being mean spirited also.

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Why? Because you'll only bruise your shin on their wheel-chair?

I will have to agree, Just because someone is in a wheelchair doesn't mean they are beyond reproach. If someone confined to a wheelchair started making fun or disparaging remarks about my child or my wife. I would have the tendency to walk over and tump them out of their perch. That's just me though. >:)

I am not saying this was the case in those candiate's debate, but perhaps he made some remarks that if she wasn't in her position or brought up to turn the other cheek, she may have "slapped him". :)

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I got some buddies that are chair bound. They play in a wheelchair rugby league over at the college. First thing that pisses them off is to be coddled. As far as they are concerned they have no issues, only people have issues dealing with their appearance. And I'd dare anyone to walk up and slap any one of them. You might draw back a bloody stub. And there is one cat named Carson, he'd probably just snatch your arm off and beat your arse with it.

Point is, the last thing a chair bound person wants is to be treated like a chair bound person. You want to slap one, slap him, you might just get you arse handed back to you.

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I got some buddies that are chair bound. They play in a wheelchair rugby league over at the college. First thing that pisses them off is to be coddled. As far as they are concerned they have no issues, only people have issues dealing with their appearance. And I'd dare anyone to walk up and slap any one of them. You might draw back a bloody stub. And there is one cat named Carson, he'd probably just snatch your arm off and beat your arse with it.

Point is, the last thing a chair bound person wants is to be treated like a chair bound person. You want to slap one, slap him, you might just get you arse handed back to you.

Exactly, I went to highschool with my buddy Kent, he had Spinalbifidah (sp). That dude was "handicapable". His biceps were huge and he was strong as hell. He could climb up ya and jump on your head, and beat you senseless. Those guys that play Murderball are some tough nuts to crack.

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I will have to agree, Just because someone is in a wheelchair doesn't mean they are beyond reproach. If someone confined to a wheelchair started making fun or disparaging remarks about my child or my wife. I would have the tendency to walk over and tump them out of their perch. That's just me though. >:)

Finally! We're on the same page again. And to think, all it took was beating up some cripples! ;)

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Finally! We're on the same page again. And to think, all it took was beating up some cripples! ;)

:lol: I'm not advocating "beating up cripples". I just don't think they are off-limits if they want to throw their hat in the ring.

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I will have to agree, Just because someone is in a wheelchair doesn't mean they are beyond reproach. If someone confined to a wheelchair started making fun or disparaging remarks about my child or my wife. I would have the tendency to walk over and tump them out of their perch. That's just me though. >:)

I am not saying this was the case in those candiate's debate, but perhaps he made some remarks that if she wasn't in her position or brought up to turn the other cheek, she may have "slapped him". :)

The remarks made in the debate were regarding the money she recieved from Tom DeLay's PAC-not about her family or children or anything of that nature. She choose to display loutish behavior after the debate, it was reported on and now her race has tightened up.

If you guys want to defend her, Limbaugh, Garden Guy and all the other open mouth-insert foot Republicans while they dig themselves deeper, then go for it. :)

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If you guys want to defend her, Limbaugh, Garden Guy and all the other open mouth-insert foot Republicans while they dig themselves deeper, then go for it. :)
There you go again accusing anyone of not supporting your views as being a Republican.
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The remarks made in the debate were regarding the money she recieved from Tom DeLay's PAC-not about her family or children or anything of that nature. She choose to display loutish behavior after the debate, it was reported on and now her race has tightened up.

If you guys want to defend her, Limbaugh, Garden Guy and all the other open mouth-insert foot Republicans while they dig themselves deeper, then go for it. :)

Wait, wait, hit the brakes ssssssssssssssccccccccccrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeecccccccchh

hhhhhhhhhhhhh ! ! ! Back it up here. How do you know that garden guy is a Republican, show me where he lists his party affiliation. I'll defend Limbaugh on his recent outspokeness, because MJ has precedent. But, like I said, this is a clear case of "he said, she said" brotha. Do you have a soundbite of her saying what he claims she said ? If so, I would love to hear and I will make a formal apology to you. Just because he is in a wheelchair, you think he couldn't possibly be a typical Politician, and try to spin the words of his opponent do you ? I think you asked me one time, "Do you beleive everything you read ?"

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Wait, wait, hit the brakes ssssssssssssssccccccccccrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeecccccccchh

hhhhhhhhhhhhh ! ! ! Back it up here. How do you know that garden guy is a Republican, show me where he lists his party affiliation. I'll defend Limbaugh on his recent outspokeness, because MJ has precedent. But, like I said, this is a clear case of "he said, she said" brotha. Do you have a soundbite of her saying what he claims she said ? If so, I would love to hear and I will make a formal apology to you. Just because he is in a wheelchair, you think he couldn't possibly be a typical Politician, and try to spin the words of his opponent do you ? I think you asked me one time, "Do you beleive everything you read ?"

Ouch! Yes, you can accuse me of being profound.

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