004n063 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 4 hours ago, samagon said: the point I think wasn't that 3' sidewalks are perfectly good. the point, in the context of the statement, was "this area already has something, this area has nothing at all, let's get everyone to a place where we at least have something, and then we can get to upgrading the places with something already" in an imaginary scenario (which maps to real life), you have 2 areas, one has sidewalks that conform to a historic minimum standard. the other area has nothing at all. is it better: 1. leave the area without sidewalks to still not have sidewalks, and upgrade the existing area with sidewalks to have better sidewalks. 2. leave the area that already has sidewalks alone, and add sidewalks to the area without any sidewalks at all. that's the crux of what he said, getting hung up on the phrasing of 'perfectly good 3' sidewalks' is pearl clutching and ignoring the broader message, which is, let's serve the completely unserved, before we give those who have something already, extra. it'll be great if we can have both, I think budgets have something to do with that. now, if he goes in and walks the minimum sidewalk width ordinance from 5' to 3', then we can start wringing our hands, or clutching our pearls. essentially, let's make sure everyone has a plate of food before we start going back for seconds. Right. It's the notion of a bare minimum - 8ft for an urbanized area - as "going back for seconds." It's the pitting of two neighborhoods' basic needs against each other. "Deer Park needs sidewalks" is not a valid reason for not investing in Washington Ave sidewalks. Edited January 31 by 004n063 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 8 hours ago, 004n063 said: Right. It's the notion of a bare minimum - 8ft for an urbanized area - as "going back for seconds." It's the pitting of two neighborhoods' basic needs against each other. "Deer Park needs sidewalks" is not a valid reason for not investing in Washington Ave sidewalks. oh yeah, if money were no object, then why not both, I think anyone would be in violent agreement with that. money is an object though, and it's something that is only available in finite amounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
004n063 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 8 hours ago, samagon said: oh yeah, if money were no object, then why not both, I think anyone would be in violent agreement with that. money is an object though, and it's something that is only available in finite amounts. I don't want to draw this out too much, but my point is this: the statement and approach reflect a priority structure that is quite different from mine. I don't expect to see a Houston mayor in my lifetime prioritize the pedestrian realm as much as I do, but my impression from the quote is that he doesn't consider high-quality pedestrian realms to be a very high priority, and that impression remains. Ultimately everybody will have their own calculus on issues like this, and his is probably more representative of the average Houstonian than mine is. But sidewalks - quality, maintanence, and coverage - are at or very near the top of my local political priorities. So the "well, we can have this or that" attitude - when to me, it seems that both "this" and "that" are bare necessities - makes me uneasy. I would love for Whitmire's administration to make me look like a paranoid pearl-clutcher about all of this. It just feels like he's a moderate step back from Turner's already moderate approach to what feels to me like a dire situation. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWantTransit555 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 On 1/30/2024 at 6:07 AM, 004n063 said: Anne Hidalgo A little bit late, but I would kill to have her as mayor here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacoDog Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 On 1/31/2024 at 9:48 AM, samagon said: the point I think wasn't that 3' sidewalks are perfectly good. the point, in the context of the statement, was "this area already has something, this area has nothing at all, let's get everyone to a place where we at least have something, and then we can get to upgrading the places with something already" in an imaginary scenario (which maps to real life), you have 2 areas, one has sidewalks that conform to a historic minimum standard. the other area has nothing at all. is it better: 1. leave the area without sidewalks to still not have sidewalks, and upgrade the existing area with sidewalks to have better sidewalks. 2. leave the area that already has sidewalks alone, and add sidewalks to the area without any sidewalks at all. that's the crux of what he said, getting hung up on the phrasing of 'perfectly good 3' sidewalks' is pearl clutching and ignoring the broader message, which is, let's serve the completely unserved, before we give those who have something already, extra. it'll be great if we can have both, I think budgets have something to do with that. now, if he goes in and walks the minimum sidewalk width ordinance from 5' to 3', then we can start wringing our hands, or clutching our pearls. essentially, let's make sure everyone has a plate of food before we start going back for seconds. It's the type of statement, when both neighborhoods could benefit from 8' sidewalks, they give the neighborhood without a sidewalk a 3' sidewalk and call it a day. That's my concern. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) 9 hours ago, TacoDog said: It's the type of statement, when both neighborhoods could benefit from 8' sidewalks, they give the neighborhood without a sidewalk a 3' sidewalk and call it a day. That's my concern. well, they can't give the neighborhood without a sidewalk a 3' sidewalk. the current ordinance states 5' is minimum. https://www.houstontx.gov/planning/sidewalk-regulations.html Edited February 2 by samagon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlaham Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 I'm a little confused by his statement about Denver Harbor not having sidewalks. Google street view can easily show that there are definitely sidewalks on all their major streets, yes some are not in the greatest shape but I've seen worse on...Westheimer/Montrose area. If he's talking about residential streets without sidewalks, well, he should look at Rice Military/ Washington/Heights/ etc that are way denser and still don't have sidewalks. IMO, yes, sidewalks should be placed/ expanded everywhere throughout Houston, but his priorities doesn't make sense. Focus on the densest areas first, the areas where lots of people are actually walking like Gulfton, Washington, Heights, Montrose, etc. His statement sounded like...why are we expanding the sidewalks in Midtown when there are areas in Clear Lake without sidewalks....??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbg.50 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Everyone on here is so much smarter than the mayor, but he’s the mayor! 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacoDog Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, samagon said: well, they can't give the neighborhood without a sidewalk a 3' sidewalk. the current ordinance states 5' is minimum. https://www.houstontx.gov/planning/sidewalk-regulations.html Thanks for the information but it doesn't change my concern. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3mh Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 I wonder what the Venn diagram would look like for people who oppose removing a vehicle lane for bike lanes/wider side walks and those who are for getting rid of parking minimums? If we are going to make Houston more dense and pull back on parking minimums then you have to also make the streets safe for pedestrians and bikes. Off hand, I can think of four pedestrian/cyclist fatalities within a mile of my house in the Heights. A jogger got hit by a car one house up the street from my house. Fortunately, it was just a few bad bruises, but the area between Buffalo Bayou and 610 has added thousands of multifamily units and lots of retail space is following. We are not going to have a livable city if the only (semi) safe transportation option is driving. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlaham Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, steve1363 said: Everyone on here is so much smarter than the mayor, but he’s the mayor! 😂 Being a mayor does not mean you're smarter than anyone. Really weird statement 😂 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, s3mh said: I wonder what the Venn diagram would look like for people who oppose removing a vehicle lane for bike lanes/wider side walks and those who are for getting rid of parking minimums? I feel pretty confident that diagram is just two circles with little or no overlap. I'm sure there's someone somewhere who wants to get rid of parking requirements but objects to road diets, but that person is not (in my experience) representative of anything but themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3mh Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 31 minutes ago, Texasota said: I feel pretty confident that diagram is just two circles with little or no overlap. I'm sure there's someone somewhere who wants to get rid of parking requirements but objects to road diets, but that person is not (in my experience) representative of anything but themselves. Ok. Now add a circle for commercial real estate developers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.33 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Engage Houston has been updated (Houston Avenue Multimodal Improvements | Let's Talk Houston (letstalkhouston.org)) "Houston Public Works will begin improvements along Houston Avenue starting in early February. These improvements include removal of the concrete median and curbs on Houston Avenue that reduced lane capacity and restricted vehicles from turning into properties based on their direction of traffic. The project will effectively restore the roadway to the same way it operated previously. Restoration will improve traffic safety and mobility for travelers including first responders and METRO busses. As part of the improvements, the pavement condition of the road will also be remediated with new asphalt. In addition, Houston Public Works will immediately begin studying the corridor for proposals that will enhance pedestrian safety." 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
004n063 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 34 minutes ago, Justin Welling said: Engage Houston has been updated (Houston Avenue Multimodal Improvements | Let's Talk Houston (letstalkhouston.org)) "Houston Public Works will begin improvements along Houston Avenue starting in early February. These improvements include removal of the concrete median and curbs on Houston Avenue that reduced lane capacity and restricted vehicles from turning into properties based on their direction of traffic. The project will effectively restore the roadway to the same way it operated previously. Restoration will improve traffic safety and mobility for travelers including first responders and METRO busses. As part of the improvements, the pavement condition of the road will also be remediated with new asphalt. In addition, Houston Public Works will immediately begin studying the corridor for proposals that will enhance pedestrian safety." The last bit sounds like Orwell. 7 hours ago, steve1363 said: Everyone on here is so much smarter than the mayor, but he’s the mayor! 😂 I think he is intelligent when it comes to things he cares about. I don't think he cares about pedestrian-oriented urbanism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some one Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) What a backward decision and statement. "We want to improve safety on this street so we're going to remove everything that made the street safer for pedestrians and bicyclists and return it back to its hostile stroad environment. Dw, we'll study how to make it safer for pedestrians......not." I hope this doesn't set a precedent for projects like this. Edited February 3 by Some one 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, Some one said: What a backward decision and statement. "We want to improve safety on this street so we're going to remove everything that made the street safer for pedestrians and bicyclists and return it back to its hostile stroad environment. Dw, we'll study how to make it safer for pedestrians......not." I hope this doesn't set a precedent for projects like this. I guess that means we will be looking at ripping out all of the changes on 11th, and a return to 50mph weaving across lanes. Followed by ripping out the new wide sidewalks on Shepherd and Durham to add the 4th lane back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbg.50 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, Ross said: I guess that means we will be looking at ripping out all of the changes on 11th, and a return to 50mph weaving across lanes. Followed by ripping out the new wide sidewalks on Shepherd and Durham to add the 4th lane back. They can take down those white pickets on 11th and leave the bike lanes. 11th street looks sloppy…like a construction zone except the orange barriers have been replaced with green. Shepherd and Durham changes are permanent enough to continue until completed. A “nice to have” would be adding a pedestrian island (or two) on Studewood ideally near White Oak and another near Woodland. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 11 hours ago, steve1363 said: They can take down those white pickets on 11th and leave the bike lanes. 11th street looks sloppy…like a construction zone except the orange barriers have been replaced with green. Shepherd and Durham changes are permanent enough to continue until completed. A “nice to have” would be adding a pedestrian island (or two) on Studewood ideally near White Oak and another near Woodland. Nope, the pedestrian islands have to go, as they interfere with the ability of cars to get to their destination quickly. In fact, Studewood should be widened to two lanes each way by removing the unnecessary sidewalks on either side. If God meant for us to walk, he wouldn't have created the car. And, let's not forget that pedestrians are unAmerican commies. Walking is a sign you hate the glorious design of spread out suburbs. For the sarcasm impaired, the above is sarcasm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.33 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 13 hours ago, steve1363 said: They can take down those white pickets on 11th and leave the bike lanes. 11th street looks sloppy…like a construction zone except the orange barriers have been replaced with green. The flex posts are actually pretty important. They provide greater visibility of the bike lane while also forcing drivers to slow down because they make the lanes appear more narrow than reality. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 16 hours ago, Ross said: I guess that means we will be looking at ripping out all of the changes on 11th, and a return to 50mph weaving across lanes. Followed by ripping out the new wide sidewalks on Shepherd and Durham to add the 4th lane back. Whelp, I guess don't go to the 11th street thread. The Shepherd and Durham project sound protected for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindesky Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 Discussion on reddit/houston about Houston Ave. Safety Improvements. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
004n063 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 16 minutes ago, hindesky said: Discussion on reddit/houston about Houston Ave. Safety Improvements. Glad to see the turnaround since this morning. Whitmire reversed course on Tour de Houston after an outcry - maybe he'll do the same here? There's still a chance that he really just doesn't realize that a lot of people actually really care about and want these things. I can imagine "slower traffic = bad politics" sticking around as an unquestioned axiom. Maybe public outcry will lead to a(nother) course reversal. But I'm not holding my breath. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindesky Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 Further down the page on reddit/houston. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindesky Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/trending/article/houston-avenue-medians-curbs-removed-18646164.php Houston Public Works is reversing course on the concrete median and curbs it installed on Houston Avenue in December, electing instead to remove them after less than two months. "Houston Public Works will begin improvements along Houston Avenue starting in early February," reads a Houston Public Works statement posted on X, formerly known as Twitter, by Axios reporter Jay R. Jordan. "These improvements will include the removal of the concrete median and curbs on Houston Avenue that reduced lane capacity and restricted vehicles from turning into properties based on their direction of traffic. The project will effectively restore the roadway to the way it operated previously." The statement says this decision will benefit drivers such as first responders and bus drivers and the department will embark on a new study to see what they can do to improve safety for non-drivers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I will say, out of all the things to start with as mayor, this has to be the most bizarre ones. I can understand redoing a project in the planning stages but this feels more like a waste of money to completely redo a project that was just finished. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
004n063 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 5 hours ago, Triton said: I will say, out of all the things to start with as mayor, this has to be the most bizarre ones. I can understand redoing a project in the planning stages but this feels more like a waste of money to completely redo a project that was just finished. Especially when the medians are not just concrete slabs, but deep tree-capacious esplanades. Tearing those out and carving up the roadway is going to make traffic a lot worse for a while, and then when they finish it'll just go back to being dangerous, and all for a pretty hefty pricetag. Edited February 5 by 004n063 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sapo2367 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 8 hours ago, Triton said: I will say, out of all the things to start with as mayor, this has to be the most bizarre ones. I can understand redoing a project in the planning stages but this feels more like a waste of money to completely redo a project that was just finished. I think some influential people (read donors with a lot of $$$) attend that church and are pushing hard against this project. I doubt the mayor’s office actually cares all that much one way or the other, but is probably doing a favor to someone who has had it out for the street improvements since they were announced 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbg.50 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, sapo2367 said: I think some influential people (read donors with a lot of $$$) attend that church and are pushing hard against this project. I doubt the mayor’s office actually cares all that much one way or the other, but is probably doing a favor to someone who has had it out for the street improvements since they were announced Don't blame the church. What about 11th street? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcal Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) Was out by the church Sunday morning and they actually pay for security to close the median on Washington Ave and escort pedestrians from their parking lot across the street. Hypocrisy much? Edit: also, deconstruction is supposed to start today. CM Castillo called for a one week pause. Unclear if Whitmire will do it. Edited February 5 by wilcal 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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