Washington Avenue Information & Developments

[N Judah]

For the reasons you mentioned I thought downtown made perfect sense for it, plus it has the benefit of few residents to gripe. One would think it would be relatively easy for the city to prevent a concentrated buildup of clubs in new areas, simply by limiting approval of liquor licenses. Club owners would probably like it too, if they knew that it was unlikely that "the scene" would be moving every couple of years.

I think the completion of the two new LRT lines will ensure downtown's permanence/longevity. In addition to the existing Main St. scene, I can see small neighborhood-style establishments popping up along the several blocks between Discovery Green and the new LRT. Some such establishments already exist, but not enough for the area to perpetuate itself. Also, I think more two-way streets would be great for that part of downtown.

Edited July 26, 2009 by N Judah

[UpperWestEnder]

It might be peculiar if you could show me that this does not happen in other cities. Most posters here live in Houston, and therefore cannot say that it doesn't happen elsewhere, since they do not live there to see it up close. I can say that during my 9 years in the DFW area, I saw several "bar districts" rise and fall to varying degrees, including West End, Upper Greenville, Deep Ellum and Northwest Highway. I'd be willing to bet that a close inspection of other cities reveals the same pattern.

This has happened in at least one other city. I think the reason bar districts move can be unique to that particular city, but entertainment districts definitely can change. I came here from Cleveland, OH. In the late 1980's "the Flats", that is the river banks along the mouth of the Cuyahoga River, were developed successfully into an entertainment district with bars, restaurants and men's clubs on both banks. You could dock your boat and go into a restaurant or bar. It continued to grow in the 1990's until there were several incidents of a reveler falling into the river and drowning. Each time they fished the victim out of water, he turned out to be under age. That caused the police to crack down on under age drinking. I was under age back then and I can tell you it became practically impossible to drink if one was under 21. That killed the bar business which over relied on college students, especially outside of the summertime.

Next the action moved to the Warehouse District, but as noted by another poster the scene became more "urban". (No, not Prius driving farmer's market shoppers). After a couple shootings, it died suddenly.

Now East Fourth has been closed to automobile traffic and turned into a pedestrian zone lined up and down both sides of the street with comedy clubs, restaurants, bars and music venues.

[longhornguy]

Question for everyone:

How does the downtown Austin entertainment/bar scene continue to thrive when they seem to have the same parking issues that Houston/Washington Ave have?

Does the city make special concessions to foster this growth?

I'm not talking about 6th street either, which the city does close the streets on wknds and provide extra police.

Particularly 4th street, Congress, West 6th St (Reminds me very much of Washington Ave) and 1st street areas.

It seems that they would run into the same parking situation that Washington has, but it doesn't seem to be as huge of an issue.

I think that would be a great model for Houston to copycat and ensure that these districts continue to thrive as much as possible.

I don't think the UT population has a ton to do with the scene outside of 6th street, as last time I was there the crowd was definitely more young professional types (i.e. people with decent jobs) and the drink prices definitely would not be friendly to a college student's budget.

Houston has a much larger Yuppie population that can continue to support these bar/entertainment districts (it seems).

With the Mayoral elections coming up, I wonder if this will be a primary topic of discussion?

[sevfiv]

I was in Austin one night over the weekend and tried to take note, but didn't see anything spectacular or revolutionary (except zoning, perhaps).

Went to one bar and parked on the street a couple blocks away. I wasn't driving, and didn't know all too well where I was, but the closest I can compare it to would be the parking around somewhere like Catbirds less all the housing mixed in.

And Austin has pleeeeenty of yuppies..

[musicman]

but the closest I can compare it to would be the parking around somewhere like Catbirds less all the housing mixed in.

the home owners are the most vocal, which is where the problems begin.

Edited July 28, 2009 by musicman

[roadrunner]

Most Austin homeowners expect that kind of scene if they move into those neighborhoods. They want Austin to be an entertainment center of Texas.

Houston homeowners want cheap, business-friendly, and family-friendly.

I'm not trying to offend my fellow Houstonians, but Houston homeowners have slightly different expectations compared to Austin homeowners.

[htownproud]

in general the streets you are talking about have mostly commercial structures around them and are surrounded by much more of a grid than Washington. partons to downtown austin bars can park in the mid-rise building parking lots, some of which are multi-level, or in the surface lots that are a few blocks away from the main drags (i.e., 4th or 6th) in either direction. there are also several hotels that are within walking/rickshaw distance that provide additional foot traffic.

washington cannot incorporate any of these advantages.

[77007]

A second public meeting will be held tomorrow, August 26th at the West End Multi-Service Center located at 170 Heights Blvd, Houston, Texas 77007 from 7 to 8 pm. This meeting is to provide the results of the comment period from the first public meeting (held a couple of months back) and outline the next steps in getting the Washington Corridor to be a quiet zone.

If you have the time, please attend and show your support. It would be great if the city can complete this project by mid 2010 or earlier.

[SaintCyr]

As much as I hate the "clubs" in that area I can't say that the development is a bad thing... Why would you want to put in a quiet zone that would affect the establishments that were already there? Walters on Washington being a very unique venue that I would hate to see shut down... Is there a lot of support for this? Can anyone shed some light on this subject?

[outback]

As much as I hate the "clubs" in that area I can't say that the development is a bad thing... Why would you want to put in a quiet zone that would affect the establishments that were already there? Walters on Washington being a very unique venue that I would hate to see shut down... Is there a lot of support for this? Can anyone shed some light on this subject?

It's a quiet zone being set up for train noise - they're changing the road/rail crossings so that they don't need to wake everyone within a 2 mile radius at 3 in the morning. Our bars are safe (phew!)

Here's the link to the website http://washingtonquietzone.com/

Edited August 26, 2009 by outback

[LTAWACS]

What I dont understand is why the train tracks are there in the first place. In the case where they were already there when the city annexed the land, then why don't the railroad companies just go elsewhere? I mean, in this day and age, why do we still have railroad tracks in the middle of the city.

[margokorin]

washington corridor quiet zone -oxymoron

[sunsets]

What I dont understand is why the train tracks are there in the first place. In the case where they were already there when the city annexed the land, then why don't the railroad companies just go elsewhere? I mean, in this day and age, why do we still have railroad tracks in the middle of the city.

I think it's prohibitively expensive to re-route tracks. It's not like a blacktopped road. And these trains are moving freight to and from the Port of Houston - this is an incredibly busy line, and it's always been so. Historically, cities were railroad hubs - of course there would be tracks "through the middle of the city". Why move them when they work just fine?

So I think the better question to ask would be: "Why are all these people buying townhouses next to the tracks when they know full well they're going to be living next to an active rail line?" Granted, the engineers wouldn't have to blow their horns as much if the drunks would stay off the tracks, and idiot drivers would stop racing the train to the next crossing....

[Yankee_in_TX]

So I think the better question to ask would be: "Why are all these people buying townhouses next to the tracks when they know full well they're going to be living next to an active rail line?" Granted, the engineers wouldn't have to blow their horns as much if the drunks would stay off the tracks, and idiot drivers would stop racing the train to the next crossing....

I agree - it's what I think when the story pops up on the news now and again, and they interview residents who act like 'woe is me...!' So, you weren't aware of the train when you bought the house...?

[goavs4]

I think people should have known better when they bought their property. My wife and I live in 77007 about 750 feet from the tracks and we knew full well when we bought that a busy train line was there and horns blew (we looked at many houses and were often there when trains went by not to mention we looked at a map of the area before we even started looking...) I've never once been woken up by the trains nor has my wife, it's just background noise now like so much else in city life.

I've actually sent in the comment card saying I think it's a waste of city money to pacify a bunch of people who should have known better and I also do not like some of the proposed changes like closing of certain crossings etc... Hopefully it won't go through and all the complainers can move back to the suburbs since it seems that's what they really want in the end anyway.

Edited August 26, 2009 by goavs4

[UpperWestEnder]

I agree - it's what I think when the story pops up on the news now and again, and they interview residents who act like 'woe is me...!' So, you weren't aware of the train when you bought the house...?

I can't speak for all my neighbors but speaking of myself and my five neighbors (townhouse six pack) we all knew about the train. But I was raised in a community near train tracks. This is nothing new to me and honestly except for the rare nights during the winter when it's not raining and cool enough to open the windows, I don't even notice the train horns. Now there are some HHN townhouses literally physically on the southside of the tracks. If someone there does complain about the train that would be pretty silly/hypocritical.

But like I said, my neighbors and I knew about the train and don't complain about it. I am actually annoyed somewhat by the Quiet Zone because it would close two access streets (Bonner and Thompson) that I use to head south out of my neighborhood.

[Hartmann]

I think it's prohibitively expensive to re-route tracks. It's not like a blacktopped road. And these trains are moving freight to and from the Port of Houston - this is an incredibly busy line, and it's always been so. Historically, cities were railroad hubs - of course there would be tracks "through the middle of the city". Why move them when they work just fine?

So I think the better question to ask would be: "Why are all these people buying townhouses next to the tracks when they know full well they're going to be living next to an active rail line?" Granted, the engineers wouldn't have to blow their horns as much if the drunks would stay off the tracks, and idiot drivers would stop racing the train to the next crossing....

Exactly. These particular tracks have been here a long, long time and do a lot of heavy moving to the Port of Houston.

The city understands that it can't have all of the old routes still in place and that's why some have been dismantled and moved (such as the one where the bike trail now sits).

There are rumors that all train traffic will be moved out of residential areas in the future, but I don't see that being something that happens overnight.

[diggity]

I would imagine that any costs paid for by the city to implement these quiet zones would be more than paid back by the increase in property values in the immediate area.

[sowanome]

I agree - it's what I think when the story pops up on the news now and again, and they interview residents who act like 'woe is me...!' So, you weren't aware of the train when you bought the house...?

here's a question...is it the train noise or the quality of construction of various homes in the surrounding area?

for some srange reason, take into account that i'd typically go to sleep around 2 am, when i lived in that area a few years back the train noise was never an issue and none of my neighbors ever complained about it..maybe we were too far south of the tracks or maybe our northern windows were somewhat sound proof, but of course you'd hear the horn the noise was never a huge nuisance..

Anyone else feel this way?

(Hey yankee...are you a homeowner yet or still a hopeful?) Just looking out for my "Big Ten" people..Go Badgers...However, i specifically remember stumping on the "O" in Columbus. Fun times!

[UpperWestEnder]

Just looking out for my "Big Ten" people..Go Badgers...However, i specifically remember stumping on the "O" in Columbus. Fun times!

Aw, a HAIF-er after my own heart. Go Badgers indeed!

[SaintCyr]

In the next few decades we will be LUCKY to have those tracks there. When shipping by truck becomes too expensive to get goods from outlying areas you will see an increase/revival of shipping/travelling by rail. I personally would like to see neighborhood rail transport return.

[emirate25]

Good article on how the yuppie crowd destroyed live music venue history on Washington...

http://blogs.chron.com/brokenrecord/2009/08/final_nail_in_the_coffin_for_w.html

A continuation of this topic on the author's blog

http://blog.jeffbalke.com/2009/08/the-doucheification-of-washington-avenue-soon-complete/

Edited August 27, 2009 by emirate25

[diggity]

In the next few decades we will be LUCKY to have those tracks there. When shipping by truck becomes too expensive to get goods from outlying areas you will see an increase/revival of shipping/travelling by rail. I personally would like to see neighborhood rail transport return.

How does that benefit "us" in any way?

[diggity]

Live music venues on Washington disappeared long before the "yuppie crowd" took over.

I loved Rockefeller's and Satellite Lounge but they've been gone for a decade now.

I'm not sure how the resurgence of nightlife on Washington would have any averse effect on Walter's.

If the owner decided to sell the property, that's his prerogative.

[Zippy]

Saw a show at "The Vatican" some years back when it still existed on Washington.. I thought it was downright scary and unsafe back then.!

[kylejack]

No more Walter's? Noooooo. It better not be because of those fracking townhouses that kept filing noise complaints against them, even on nights they weren't open.

[gto250us]

I understand the problem but I find it hilarious that folks will buy a place right next to the train tracks and them complain about the noise. There have been folks living in this area, next to the railroad for what now for what, a hundred years? Do these "Quiet Zones" exist in other parts of the city? what about other cities?

Edited August 27, 2009 by gto250us

[gto250us]

What I dont understand is why the train tracks are there in the first place. In the case where they were already there when the city annexed the land, then why don't the railroad companies just go elsewhere? I mean, in this day and age, why do we still have railroad tracks in the middle of the city.

Getting a railroad to change their right-of-way is like getting Ted Kennedy out of office. It just ain't going to happen.

Edited August 27, 2009 by gto250us

[rsb320]

I understand the problem but I find it hilarious that folks will buy a place right next to the train tracks and them complain about the noise. There have been folks living in this area, next to the railroad for what now for what, a hundred years? Do these "Quiet Zones" exist in other parts of the city? what about other cities?

The line that runs parallel to the West Loop is a quiet zone. All of those cross streets have updated rail crossings.

[gto250us]

I still find this issue somewhat crazy. I would think that there are more annoying sources of sound in our urban environment than the damn train. The incessant rumble and roar of the freeways is a good example. I never hear of anyone trying to shut them down at night. After all this is a large city and if you want to hear the crickets you move to Waller.

Wait - Waller has a train also.

Edited August 27, 2009 by gto250us