Midtown Homeless Situation

[ricco67]

Actually, when they showed the story on Ch.13, they showed a number of address plates. Apparently he has been quite prolific. So THAT situation should see an improvement for a few months until someone else starts taking chances.

[musicman]

Actually, when they showed the story on Ch.13, they showed a number of address plates. Apparently he has been quite prolific. So THAT situation should see an improvement for a few months until someone else starts taking chances.

hopefully that is the case.

[Guest Marty]

I remember seeing a variety of them too. That story got hit by the editing chop shop big time.

[LMG]

Iraq? 90% of these street creatures should be throw in a padded cell.

That's what really scary about it. A awful lot of those people are major mental,and not on medication. I have been living here in McAllen for several years now.I am however a Houston native,and go up there alot.I can't believe how rapidly this problem is growing or what exactly needs to be done to correct it.

[musicman]

I can't believe how rapidly this problem is growing

IMO this what is worrying residents the most. it has become noticeably worse is such a short time.

[LMG]

IMO this what is worrying residents the most. it has become noticeably worse is such a short time.

If I lived in midtown or numerous other locations in Houston I would be major worried and angry also.I know alot of these people are not mentally sound,and maybe have fallen on hard times.However,that is not a new problem on Planet Earth.When I was a kid we called homeless people "hobos",and in general they did not create problems in our daily living.They did not create tent cities and stuff.They moved on. This new group of homeless is a whole different breed however.They are major invading our "space",that we worked hard for.

[RedScare]

This new group of homeless is a whole different breed however.They are major invading our "space",that we worked hard for.

What "space" would that be, since you live in McAllen?

[Mr. Chenevert]

Are you serious? Downtown L.A. makes Houston's look like The SugarLand Town Square.

What blows my mind is the number of people in this thread who talk about punching the homeless in the face, treating them like animals, etc... Many of these posters are the same ones that like to talk a good "Christian" game in other threads.

Call me crazy, but I doubt Jesus would be sucker punching the homeless when exiting a BW3.

Thinking about doing something, and actually doing it are two different things.

Im sure Jesus had thoughts about being violent.

What, should I offer the guy some hot soup after he threatens to break into my car?

Get real.

[dbigtex56]

Actually, Musicman, I'd much rather have the homeless 24/7 (which I do) than the Rich's crew.

looks like your wish has come true.

Rich's is closing?! What's your source?

[musicman]

looks like your wish has come true.

Rich's is closing?! What's your source?

he said he'd rather have the homeless vs. the rich's patrons 24/7. and well..he's got the homeless 24/7

Edited August 27, 2007 by musicman

[feufoma]

Are you serious? Downtown L.A. makes Houston's look like The SugarLand Town Square.

What blows my mind is the number of people in this thread who talk about punching the homeless in the face, treating them like animals, etc... Many of these posters are the same ones that like to talk a good "Christian" game in other threads.

Call me crazy, but I doubt Jesus would be sucker punching the homeless when exiting a BW3.

Yes, the "older" section of DT L.A. is Skid Row and is definitely the largest concentration of the homeless that I have seen. But, really, the homeless in DT L.A. proper pretty much keep to themselves and have never hit me up for money, etc. The homeless in Houston are always asking for money. Many are clearly deranged/ high and are probably dangerous.

I agree that it's wrong to feel ill will toward the homeless; and I would never intentionally hurt one unless I was defending my family, myself or my property. What I don't understand about the homeless in MT and DT Houston is the fact that the police don't do anything to enforce the existing ordinances (e.g., sleeping on sidewalks). Shouldn't there be a full time law enforcement presence to protect the public from being pestered or worse? On a lighter note: why not just provide the homeless in Houston an exclusive (and, notably, one way) trip to exciting Dallas or Austin!?

[Vertigo58]

Yes, the "older" section of DT L.A. is Skid Row and is definitely the largest concentration of the homeless that I have seen. But, really, the homeless in DT L.A. proper pretty much keep to themselves and have never hit me up for money, etc. The homeless in Houston are always asking for money. Many are clearly deranged/ high and are probably dangerous.

I agree that it's wrong to feel ill will toward the homeless; and I would never intentionally hurt one unless I was defending my family, myself or my property. What I don't understand about the homeless in MT and DT Houston is the fact that the police don't do anything to enforce the existing ordinances (e.g., sleeping on sidewalks). Shouldn't there be a full time law enforcement presence to protect the public from being pestered or worse? On a lighter note: why not just provide the homeless in Houston an exclusive (and, notably, one way) trip to exciting Dallas or Austin!?

The beaches are just as bad. All the way from Venice to Santa Monica, Malibu enforces the vagrancy laws because the rich have pull.

The city buses are always crowded with many left to fend for themselves once released or booted out of mental wards/rehabilitation centers. This includes street children. I recall seeing some as young as 10 yrs of age running in groups barefooted and ragged, sellling themselves or drugs to make it. Thank you for describing the west coast situation, you have confirmed. Hardly the sunny, glamorous LA we hear of so often. For those that doubt us you can go to the internet.

[LMG]

What "space" would that be, since you live in McAllen?

My space meaning Houston. My roots have been in Houston for a long time.My great-grandfather and alot of my family are buried at Glenwood Cemetary,right down the hill from Howard Hughes and his parents. More recent events include my son moving to the Rice lofts a few years back after DT had been renovated.WE could not even walk to go out to eat without being intruded upon people begging for money. My other son who still lives there has to deal with them on a daily basis.He is a very kind sensitive person who feels sorry for them but is really getting tired of them messing with his mix all the time.That is why he bought a house in Katy.

[LMG]

The beaches are just as bad. All the way from Venice to Santa Monica, Malibu enforces the vagrancy laws because the rich have pull.

The city buses are always crowded with many left to fend for themselves once released or booted out of mental wards/rehabilitation centers. This includes street children. I recall seeing some as young as 10 yrs of age running in groups barefooted and ragged, sellling themselves or drugs to make it. Thank you for describing the west coast situation, you have confirmed. Hardly the sunny, glamorous LA we hear of so often. For those that doubt us you can go to the internet.

I have talked to alot of young kids on the streets of Houston. They are doing the same thing.

[LMG]

The homeless seem to be getting more aggresive. Not only with they offer to watch your car while you go eat at say BW3, now they want to wash your windows with their "squeegee" and "water". Anytime I may venture into the CVS in midtown, there always seems to be a homeless person waiting outside. I even heard a woman who lived nearby in Post Midtown say that they follow her home sometimes.

Has anyone else noticed these more aggressive variety?

The washing windows things is not what you have to worry about. At least these people are willing to do something for money rather than harass you for nothing. Ii's very common in Mexico where people who have no job,and no education to get one to wash windows,or watch your vehicle while you are eating or shopping. I know that it must be annoying sometimes though. But,be thankful they are not the ones that mean you harm. The people like that are just trying to bring home tortillas and beans to their kids. Check it out on the streets,you will not find that many MEXICAN kids compared to white and black kids. SAD but true

[jt16]

The washing windows things is not what you have to worry about. At least these people are willing to do something for money rather than harass you for nothing. Ii's very common in Mexico where people who have no job,and no education to get one to wash windows,or watch your vehicle while you are eating or shopping. I know that it must be annoying sometimes though. But,be thankful they are not the ones that mean you harm. The people like that are just trying to bring home tortillas and beans to their kids. Check it out on the streets,you will not find that many MEXICAN kids compared to white and black kids. SAD but true

It seems that the Hispanic culture has a strong sense of family. Sadly, for whites and blacks, we tend to cast out our family members as soon as they become a burden.

The homeless would not be aggressive if it didn't pay off. Any person caught giving a homeless person money should be fined heftily. I never give out money to the homeless. It's not hard to see that a large percentage of them need alcohol and drug rehabilitation. A good idea that I got from a church organization is to keep bags of non-perishable food items (pretzels, etc.) in your car to hand out. It's hard to spend food on drugs and alcohol.

[musicman]

The homeless would not be aggressive if it didn't pay off. Any person caught giving a homeless person money should be fined heftily. I never give out money to the homeless. It's not hard to see that a large percentage of them need alcohol and drug rehabilitation. A good idea that I got from a church organization is to keep bags of non-perishable food items (pretzels, etc.) in your car to hand out. It's hard to spend food on drugs and alcohol.

giving them food also encourages them to stay there which is the problem.

Edited August 30, 2007 by musicman

[CSOM]

I sent a note both to the Mayor's email address (as listed on the City's website... so his filtered checked by someone else inbox) and the Midtown Management district stating my concern as a resident and property owner, and cited both this thread and the KTRK report... so far no response. Not shocking. Anyone else have any other suggestions or ideas to get the city to wake up on this?

[MidtownCoog]

Call Charles LeBlanc with the association. He will actually return your call: 713-526-7577

[Vertigo58]

I sent a note both to the Mayor's email address (as listed on the City's website... so his filtered checked by someone else inbox) and the Midtown Management district stating my concern as a resident and property owner, and cited both this thread and the KTRK report... so far no response. Not shocking. Anyone else have any other suggestions or ideas to get the city to wake up on this?

They need to start at Greyhound Bus Station big time. Just yesterday evening I had to go down W Dallas to Bagby and just in that short length approx 1 mile? I could see so many men just wandering or loitering around. I just dont get why they stare at the passing cars so much? Most just look so suspicious and they make themselves look suspicious by constantly turning around and stopping and well just like a guilt deal or something? This was day time. I seldom ever lock my doors but I dont care I did anyway. It only takes seconds for some idiot to run up and jump in or whatever. Once my brother was stopped at a light & some guy came out of nowhere and grabbed his door handle and was not making any sense and seemed loaded. My brother said the guy had glue paint on his lips & face. He had to punch the freak to get him away from him. When my bro got home there was silver paint on the door handle & door. Thats weird.

Anyway that Bus station is like a magnet for these men and some real trashy women. There are several threads discussing this lousy Greyhound dump. Maybe the mayor should take a walk around this blight to make things happen. I used to like Midtown but its getting to funky, funky, funky.

[VicMan]

Until the city agrees to enforce ordinances, should Midtown create a private security force that keeps the beggars away?

It should be authorized to place as many mentally deficient homeless into centers as legally possible. Instead of outright kidnapping/arresting mentally deficient homeless, is it legal for the force could use trickery (e.g. I'll give you the beer - just walk down a few blocks into this building and there is a whole cache of beer)?

Edited August 31, 2007 by VicMan

[cabanaboy]

Are you serious? Downtown L.A. makes Houston's look like The SugarLand Town Square.

What blows my mind is the number of people in this thread who talk about punching the homeless in the face, treating them like animals, etc... Many of these posters are the same ones that like to talk a good "Christian" game in other threads.

Call me crazy, but I doubt Jesus would be sucker punching the homeless when exiting a BW3.

One time I saw Jesus sucker punch a bum after coming out of BW3. the bum was aking for it, though.

[musicman]

Until the city agrees to enforce ordinances, should Midtown create a private security force that keeps the beggars away?

It should be authorized to place as many mentally deficient homeless into centers as legally possible. Instead of outright kidnapping/arresting mentally deficient homeless, is it legal for the force could use trickery (e.g. I'll give you the beer - just walk down a few blocks into this building and there is a whole cache of beer)?

Vic if there were places to hold all these people there wouldn't be a problem. many of the ones i know about are full or nearly full all the time. some friends helped someone we know into a shelter recently. it definitely takes some work.

[VicMan]

So, musicman, the issue is to determine where to build a center that can accomodate the mentally deficient homeless.

Which location is the best for such a center? Do you have an intersection in your head that would make a good location for a center?

[musicman]

So, musicman, the issue is to determine where to build a center that can accomodate the mentally deficient homeless.

Which location is the best for such a center? Do you have an intersection in your head that would make a good location for a center?

IMO the where is fairly fluid, the how isn't. money to build and to run a center is not readily available.

[ricco67]

Vic if there were places to hold all these people there wouldn't be a problem. many of the ones i know about are full or nearly full all the time. some friends helped someone we know into a shelter recently. it definitely takes some work.

So does that mean that they let you use the computer there? What does NASA have to say about that, or do they have their own quarters?

The Greyhound Bus station matter has been talked about into the ground on a couple of different threads, the only thing I have to add is the fact that people commented that there are WORSE stations in different parts of the country. They're mostly located at "Hub" cities such as Amarillo and in the middle part of the nation.

I would have paid Jeebus to sucker punch a bum. With a tuna. Bronzed.

[musicman]

So does that mean that they let you use the computer there? What does NASA have to say about that, or do they have their own quarters?

what are you talking about?

[VicMan]

Also, we should try to classify the Midtown homeless to see how to best deal with the issue.

We should determine what kinds of people are the "pestering" beggars and deal with them first in an appropriate manner. Private businesses can hire guards to shoo beggars. The municipal government should enforce its laws.

[drey00]

i don't doubt that a lot of those folks have some mental issues...but why is it that you get all kinds of problems at the greyhound station, but not at the el expresso location right next to them? somebody explain that to me!

if it's purely a mental health issue, why are the numbers so heavily swayed to one demographic? that doesn't make any sense to me.

folks, i'm a minority, but i'll call it the way i see it. there's just a lot of punks and lazy ass folks that would rather beg/threaten others for money than to earn it the right way. if it was purely mental health, then it wouldn't be so unevenly distributed imo. and also, i'll say that all of our races/ethnicities have our bad apples. there is no one worse than the other. but here in midtown, we are exposed to a bunch of folks that are not all mentally ill...a lot of them are just trashy folks that called it quits on life and want to take an easy way out.

and another thing: minority leaders need to stop playing the damn race card and start doing what's right for their own. those lousy SOB's (sharpton, jackson, etc) are all just trying to get rich while letting their own people dwell in the crapper and point the finger at white folks.

it's not white folks anymore that are causing this. it's the lack of good minority role models and leaders getting back in the community and kicking some arse...and leading the right way. enough excuses. raise your damn kids right, or don't have them in the first place

go ahead and flame me now

Edited September 1, 2007 by drey00

[ricco67]

Hell, I'm not going to flame you, if you go to a haif party, your tab is on me!

I spent a good portion of my free time this week just driving around Midtown and just kickin' it on some street corners around town and made some interesting observations:

Bums that hang out in areas outside of the greyhound bus station area (i.e. Montrose, Lower Midtown, Portions of Downtown) are people that are genuinely homeless and these two break down in further.

There are those that merely scavenge garbage and not bother anyone and eke out a modest existence out of what little they manage to acquire and are amazingly proud. An example of this is the homeless guy at the Old Sheraton Hotel, and the "Island man" that used to reside in the Montrose. there are 4 of these guys in Downtown and 8 in the lower midtown/Montrose area.

The other example are those that beg/solicit, but only passively. He holds out a cup or a hand in a fashion that reminds me of a fisherman. If he catches a coin or two, he'll be content, otherwise, they scour the garbage. These are the guys that I believe are on the very border of giving up all hope. There are at least 6-10 in Downtown that I know of.

The aggressive types I think are the more fascinating, but they too break down in classes.

Stage one:

Typical Begging: They walk up to the various people asking for change, actual begging.

Conman Begging: These are the ones that are basically the ones asking for a bus fare home, or some other reason that they are short of funds. These are generally found all over the city (tell you a story of one instance later). They seem to make a moderate living at it. In some cases I estimated they can earn about 5 bucks to more than 20 an hour.

Stage two

Predatory Begging: These guys I basically consider the "hyenas" of the human population, but they rarely work as a group (see Conman begging). They walk up to you and strongly ask or borderline demand money. Once they see a particular body language from whom they solicit, they either get more aggressive or simply back off. Not entirely sure what their take is since they're constantly on the move and I didn't want to appear "following".

Anything beyond that is getting to be criminal behavior and no longer qualifies as "Begging".

The reactions of people to the various types of begging is also fascinating:

In downtown people generally ignore stage one beggars with little more than a glance if at all. The con men have very little success here either unless they encounter someone who isn't familiar with them and fall for their story.

In Montrose and lower midtown, they have a tendency to hang out on street corners bearing signs. I was easily able to peg the "locals" to those who are either from the 'burbs or out of towners. As they approach the cars at the lights, the locals will simply ignore them knowing recognizing them as not a hazard, but the other group will generally look at them closely, lock their doors.

with the Stage two's they are treated basically the same way in downtown and midtown. Some are openly hostile to the beggers while others shirk back or walk faster to avoid them. I think confrontation is actually a bit of a better technique to dealing with these guys since I've seen them pursue those that back down from them. When someone actually threatens the stage two, the begger will generally react by either backing/cowering away unless they're being watched by friends nearby and become a bit hostile (over the top, I think) to intimidate the victim, which seems to occasionally work, but this is generally a wasted effort so they usually retreat.

now to the story:

I had just pulled up to the pump and got out to pay cash at a station on the gulf freeway when I was approached by a couple of girls wanting money for gas. They wanted 5 bucks. I told them to pull up to a pump and I'll put in a couple of ____s for them. They declined and as I continued walking I kept an eye on them in the reflection of the glass and while I was standing in line and I saw them approach several people, obtaining from what I can tell was about $20. When I got out they had approached a couple of guys and the they were chatting them up, i saw money exchanging hands.

Since they were on the pump next to me, I started talking to one of the guys. "You know, they have been on this corner for the past 15 minutes asking for money." One of the guys bursts out in laughter as he said his buddy slipped them a twenty and made a date for the next day. We turned around and saw the girls leave in a pickup with two guys in the front seat.

A sucker is born every minute.