LTAWACS Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I have been watching the forum for a while now, but I had to join for this thread. Yes, this is not a hoax as I have personally meet the developers with two of my fellow classmates. The project has been in the works for a while, the website went up over a year ago (Its not new). In 2006 I meet with the developers, Mr. Angel and Mr. McIver at their offices. We developed the site for our finial project at the UH masters program and the gentlemen wanted to get an idea of what we thought of the site (They keep our model). When we meet with everyone at that point the architects of the project was SPA architecture, but it looks as if that might have changed now. I would be shocked if it got built, it will take a while after all due to the scale of the site...but considering the current economy don't count on anything soon. Currently they have not even cleaned up from the hurricane, I live very close to the site so I go by every day on my way home. I bet it will be 5 years before you see one building on the site. Below is some images of our project (note: we took the car dealship and the metro land in our school project). I have more images of our project if anyone is interested in seeing them. Hi there and welcome. Yes. Please post more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totheskies Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Plan away! All the planning in the world isn't going to transform the South Loop hotel market or the surrounding demographics (South Union, Sunnyside, S. Main, Astrodome areas) into a situation that supports the kind of stuff that you're talking about. Hell, Marq-E is located along I-10 near 610, where there is better population density and better household income levels, and even they have struggled for years with high vacancy and high tenant turnover. That just is what it is, and plans must accommodate reality or face abject failure.If you're proposing that a government entity become a financial sponsor of the project, well that may be financially, legally, and physically feasible but it would have to happen on an unprecedented (basically impossible) level. You see how difficult it is to get government cooperation on the Astrodome convention hotel? Well, we're only talking about vacant land, here. Fat chance. It is politically infeasible. As I said in both of my posts... I'm clearly dreaming, but hey that's what the internet is for In regards to the vacancies... let he who is without empty storefront cast the first stone. I'm well aware of the demographics of the area, which is why it wouldn't make sense to plan a "Highland Village"-style dev. in that quadrant of I-610. But you're suggesting that just b/c someone lives in Sunnyside or Hiram Clarke that they don't go to the movies, don't eat out, and probably don't go to the club... simply not true on all counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totheskies Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'm not saying it doesn't bring business, but from the looks of this ambitious project, it has the potential to bring even more money then what the Marquee could. Look at the plaza, show me a place in Houston, heck, the whole state of texas that looks as modern and beautiful as it does. (Ok, the arts district in Dallas doesn't count, because they're not building an opera house). But fine resteraunts and ammenities, could attract a nicer crowd then the Marquee. I know a lot of UH students who would love a safe refuge (compared to telephone rd.). And this could be it. This project has so much potential, if it came to fruitation. I would argue that this could be the best project, neck and neck with reagent square, if it was done right.LMAO... I guess I just don't view things this way, but I guess you're right. "Retreats" from the "danger and dilapidation" of UH are necessary. I also know a lot of UH and TSU students (myself included) that keep the Marq-E in business. Personally, I could care less for the looks of Southpointe... but I do care what it can DO for the area. Upscale is ok I guess, but functionality IMO is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 uGh.. Who thought of this design..?? Please reply Moonb007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 In regards to the vacancies... let he who is without empty storefront cast the first stone. So you're trying to compare Christian morality to real estate finance? I think you need to ask yourself, "Would Jesus do that?" I'm well aware of the demographics of the area, which is why it wouldn't make sense to plan a "Highland Village"-style dev. in that quadrant of I-610. But you're suggesting that just b/c someone lives in Sunnyside or Hiram Clarke that they don't go to the movies, don't eat out, and probably don't go to the club... simply not true on all counts. I'm not saying that a development at the former Astroworld site should or needs to cater to the Highland Village crowd. But it DOES need customers, and in that location they're relatively scarce and relatively poor. Poor people do go to the movies, they do eat out, and they most definitely do go to clubs. But they do not have as much money to spend, so they do all these things less frequently and spend less when they do. This is why with few exceptions the only kinds of new built-from-scratch retail that poor people get are supported by grocery stores, bulk goods stores, dollar stores, and fast food. Nearly everything else that poor people use just recycles existing real estate because retailers are unable to afford new space. The other bad thing about poor people is that they tend to drive away the better-paying customers, especially when the poor people are there in order to have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 The other bad thing about poor people is that they tend to drive away the better-paying customers, especially when the poor people are there in order to have fun. Did you hear that the Macaroni Grille in Cypress went ghetto?? Oh sorry, I'm confusing this with another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totheskies Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 So you're trying to compare Christian morality to real estate finance? I think you need to ask yourself, "Would Jesus do that?" I'm not saying that a development at the former Astroworld site should or needs to cater to the Highland Village crowd. But it DOES need customers, and in that location they're relatively scarce and relatively poor. Poor people do go to the movies, they do eat out, and they most definitely do go to clubs. But they do not have as much money to spend, so they do all these things less frequently and spend less when they do. This is why with few exceptions the only kinds of new built-from-scratch retail that poor people get are supported by grocery stores, bulk goods stores, dollar stores, and fast food. Nearly everything else that poor people use just recycles existing real estate because retailers are unable to afford new space. The other bad thing about poor people is that they tend to drive away the better-paying customers, especially when the poor people are there in order to have fun. - I certainly can't deny that, but any new development is a major risk in this recession. If you're going to build in this area, you've got two options... try to create a "new world" that attracts people from other areas of the city, or cater to something that the current residents may or may not use. Either way is going to be very risky. Southpointe seems like a good idea, but it would be a hell of a lot better if they thought towards the future of the area. The South Loop is densi-gentrifying on both sides, and Pearland is expanding like crazy... Houston would do well to develop some entertainment/retail distractions on the south side of town. OTOH, what could ever possibly compete with Pearland Town Center?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 - I certainly can't deny that, but any new development is a major risk in this recession.On the contrary, interest rates on commercial real estate construction loans have not gotten out of hand as might reflect an especially high perception of risk by lenders. It's just that the lending institutions that can make big loans aren't especially well-capitalized right now and need to keep larger reserves of cash instead of doing more volume of business. That's actually a very big part of why the larger economy is not doing well is because banks stopped making loans to firms. That is specifically why I'm out of a job. Fix that and the economy recovers.You have to bear in mind that the development timetable of a project as ambitious as this may be up to 10 years. Maybe more. The recession in which we are presently in has virtually no bearing on the marketability of office, medical office, retail, or apartment space two years from now, which is about the soonest that they could possibly deliver product if they were able to plow ahead starting today.If you're going to build in this area, you've got two options... try to create a "new world" that attracts people from other areas of the city, or cater to something that the current residents may or may not use. Either way is going to be very risky. Southpointe seems like a good idea, but it would be a hell of a lot better if they thought towards the future of the area. The South Loop is densi-gentrifying on both sides, and Pearland is expanding like crazy... Houston would do well to develop some entertainment/retail distractions on the south side of town. OTOH, what could ever possibly compete with Pearland Town Center??False Bifurcation. The developer could just plan to carry on with the pattern of development (as I have described) that has already been established as being financially successful within and to the south of the Texas Medical Center. In so doing, they continue the creation of the same sort of world as opposed to trying (and probably failing) to create a new world.Sophisticated national retailers such as would be required as pre-leased tenants in order to develop some kind of retail/entertainment complex use demographics typically measured out in 1-, 3-, and 5-mile rings. None of these encompasses Pearland. A drive-time analysis also will not encompass Pearland.With the exception of a few new relatively-affordable apartment complexes off of Bellfort, Lakes @ 610 Dr., and Almeda, the south side of 610 isn't really adding the kind of housing that is necessary to support a major retail/entertainment destination. And I see no evidence to suggest that South Union or Sunnyside is gentrifying. Crosswell/Torian is not going to wait forever for that area to fill in. It'll take a long...long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Timmy Chan's Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 And I see no evidence to suggest that South Union or Sunnyside is gentrifying. I am your evidence! I gentrified South Union all by myself. We don't need any more honkies, thank you very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas911 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I haven't read the whole thread but everytime I pass by I shout in my head "What the heck was the hurry to demolish Astorworld"? So that it could sit vacant for 4 years? Ridiculous. They should have just kept it open until they had a real buyer. Houston got screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I haven't read the whole thread but everytime I pass by I shout in my head "What the heck was the hurry to demolish Astorworld"? So that it could sit vacant for 4 years? Ridiculous. They should have just kept it open until they had a real buyer. Houston got screwed.I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonb007 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Sorry to be critical, but why would you waste 20% of the land on a parking lot, and not build a garage? Is that was I see on the bottom right? Ahhh, don't worry about being critical...after all it was just a school project with is a mix of compermize between the teachers will, fellow students, and your own ambitions. But no, that's not parking, those are homes. All the red are some sort of buildings, parking is all done underground with limmited street access. The idea was two mini rail lines run on the two arcs that you see...something like a hop on and hop off. We tried to provide a mix for all types of living, private homes, condos, hotel, office, entertainment. The other requirment, which I don't think is right for the site was the extremely tall highrises. The class was a high rise class and not a size planning, so we had to work those into the program. Below are a lot more images of the project. uGh.. Who thought of this design..?? Please reply Moonb007 Yea, its not the worlds best. It was suppose to be a gate way into the site from the bridge. The orginal idea was you where to pass between these two clean angled towers, but the prof. did not think that was interesting enough....so next thing you know it has this ugly skin....hahahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbaNerd Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 High rise class? What year of the program were you in when you took that? Eee, I have a long way to go...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 we had to work those into the program. Below are a lot more images of the project. Yea, its not the worlds best. It was suppose to be a gate way into the site from the bridge. The orginal idea was you where to pass between these two clean angled towers, but the prof. did not think that was interesting enough....so next thing you know it has this ugly skin....hahahahaha Lol. I like that first building...is it around 80+ floors? Also the second building looks cool but,blue glass may have been better. Thanks for sharing this with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) Ahhh, don't worry about being critical...after all it was just a school project with is a mix of compermize between the teachers will, fellow students, and your own ambitions. But no, that's not parking, those are homes. All the red are some sort of buildings, parking is all done underground with limmited street access. The idea was two mini rail lines run on the two arcs that you see...something like a hop on and hop off. We tried to provide a mix for all types of living, private homes, condos, hotel, office, entertainment. The other requirment, which I don't think is right for the site was the extremely tall highrises. The class was a high rise class and not a size planning, so we had to work those into the program. Below are a lot more images of the project.Yea, its not the worlds best. It was suppose to be a gate way into the site from the bridge. The orginal idea was you where to pass between these two clean angled towers, but the prof. did not think that was interesting enough....so next thing you know it has this ugly skin....hahahahahaI noticed all the thematic maps depicting density, ethnicity, etc., and I know that UH has an art school format, opening up the program for broader interpretation, but one of my pet peves is to watch architects trying to play City Planner. The maps and information are interesting, but they just aren't relevant to anything that is within the architect's control. And to the extent that the scope of the architect's project must accomodate the marketplace, that is the developer's prerogative. Edited January 31, 2009 by TheNiche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samsandrasan Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I will be very surprised if this doesn't end up being utilized by the medical center or some entity within the medical center. A great deal of the value of this property is due to it's proximity to the medical center.We are running out of room over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rube88 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Not sure if it is new, but I was coming in from out of town on Sunday and noticed on the Southern end of the pedestrian bridge they had put up the framework (2x4's and plywood) of what looks like a sign, possibly announcing the project. If anyone passes by soon, maybe you can take a peak and see if they do make an announcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmulder Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Not sure if it is new, but I was coming in from out of town on Sunday and noticed on the Southern end of the pedestrian bridge they had put up the framework (2x4's and plywood) of what looks like a sign, possibly announcing the project. If anyone passes by soon, maybe you can take a peak and see if they do make an announcement.I'll keep an eye out....Boy six flags over texas opens next weekend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinite_jim Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 LULZ @ the internet jurors.. Remind me to never post any of my projects.W/R/T SouthPointe; these types of utopian schemes never fully address the programmatic values of users and are mere monuments to client egos. It really has a ship in a bottle effect in the creative design process. I'd like to see this property parceled out into smaller properties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonb007 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Not sure if it is new, but I was coming in from out of town on Sunday and noticed on the Southern end of the pedestrian bridge they had put up the framework (2x4's and plywood) of what looks like a sign, possibly announcing the project. If anyone passes by soon, maybe you can take a peak and see if they do make an announcement.That went up last weekend...they also fixed the fence from Ike and mowed. I have a feeling they are going to allow cars to park there for the Rodeo...that is what I bet the signs will say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChannelTwoNews Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Not sure if it is new, but I was coming in from out of town on Sunday and noticed on the Southern end of the pedestrian bridge they had put up the framework (2x4's and plywood) of what looks like a sign, possibly announcing the project. If anyone passes by soon, maybe you can take a peak and see if they do make an announcement.Yes, the sign facing east, at least, is for South Pointe. Saw it driving by earlier this morning... Just had basic info like the developers' names, #s & website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Yes, the sign facing east, at least, is for South Pointe. Saw it driving by earlier this morning... Just had basic info like the developers' names, #s & website.What are they going to build there? It's been vacant for a few years now right?I will be very surprised if this doesn't end up being utilized by the medical center or some entity within the medical center. A great deal of the value of this property is due to it's proximity to the medical center.We are running out of room over here.Yeah, medical center can really only move south. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I drove by there earlier today, too, and the sign facing westbound traffic was blank, and the eastbound had the South Pointe information like mentioned above.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) 13 just had a report said it will be used for rodeo parking. in the near future it is scheduled to be used as a music venue. evidently there was some concert there last yr. Edited February 26, 2009 by musicman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livincinco Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 13 just had a report said it will be used for rodeo parking. in the near future it is scheduled to be used as a music venue. evidently there was some concert there last yr.Rock The Bayou was held there last year over Labor Day Weekend. Supposed to occur same weekend this year also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie_tech Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I actually had a nice time with my family last year. Wife dragged me from my home office...hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 (edited) Guys theres a video now of this developement in detail, there are two twin towers, 30-40 possibly 50 stories with spires. The video also includes metrorail, palm trees, mid-rise towers etc.The towers are very similiar to renderings I saw before yrs ago (Im looking for the rendering); are different than the others on the website.(Its on the right very small)http://crosstorian.com/southpointe Edited April 11, 2009 by UpuPUp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flipper Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I liked the video. Reminds me of the similar developments in sugarland and pearland minus the high rises. I hope someone builds something similar.flipperGuys theres a video now of this developement in detail, there are two twin towers, 30-40 possibly 50 stories with spires. The video also includes metrorail, palm trees, mid-rise towers etc.The towers are very similiar to renderings I saw before yrs ago (Im looking for the rendering); are different than the others on the website.(Its on the right very small)http://crosstorian.com/southpointe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 (edited) The towers in the video are similar to this rendering from 2007. Edited April 11, 2009 by UpuPUp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Guys theres a video now of this developement in detail, there are two twin towers, 30-40 possibly 50 stories with spires. The video also includes metrorail, palm trees, mid-rise towers etc.The towers are very similiar to renderings I saw before yrs ago (Im looking for the rendering); are different than the others on the website.(Its on the right very small)http://crosstorian.com/southpointeVERY cool. I love that they are at least thinking big. I hope this can happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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