White Oak Music Hall At 2915 N. Main St.

[Luminare]

32 minutes ago, Ross said:

I don't think so. They want to make money for themselves, regardless of how many lives they interrupt or destroy with late hours music that can be heard several miles away. If they cared about the neighborhood, they would close the outdoor venue and ensure that anyone within 2 miles could go to bed during a concert and go to sleep without incessant bass keeping them awake. This is an awful place for a music venue.

 

"Destroy" people's lives? Come on. Lets not be hyperbolic. Also if we are going to talk about noise then lets talk about the highway that is right next door which is constant noise. The outdoor venue would only be momentary noise on occasion. If this was put right in the middle of the community you might have a point to agree with, but its on the fringe.

 

The lawsuit is the definition of frivolous. The people that built this project went through the proper legal channels, legally got the project permitted, legally went through the entire process. Outdoor venues are probably some of the most difficult to get approved because of the multiple amount of issues that go with noise. I'm sure they located it next to the highway both because the cost of land would be low and that the noise would mostly be directed at the highway (which if you actually go to the venue the open part of the venue is directed at the highway.

 

I say it's wiser and pragmatic to not work against the current, but to work with it. Harness it. Build a new dynamic community around it. Holy crap White Oak has dollar signs all around. Look at all these kids coming into an area they never would have before to hear music. Thats ripe to create a fun and interesting community. One that will actually be resilient and not silent and whimpering.

 

From being in that area its not much of a community. You are right though that if White Oak didn't exist then they could sleep. In fact that's all they would do is sleep. I mean what a terrible thing to be part of dynamic community instead of static and silent one.

[Ross]

2 hours ago, Luminare said:

 

"Destroy" people's lives? Come on. Lets not be hyperbolic. Also if we are going to talk about noise then lets talk about the highway that is right next door which is constant noise. The outdoor venue would only be momentary noise on occasion. If this was put right in the middle of the community you might have a point to agree with, but its on the fringe.

 

The lawsuit is the definition of frivolous. The people that built this project went through the proper legal channels, legally got the project permitted, legally went through the entire process. Outdoor venues are probably some of the most difficult to get approved because of the multiple amount of issues that go with noise. I'm sure they located it next to the highway both because the cost of land would be low and that the noise would mostly be directed at the highway (which if you actually go to the venue the open part of the venue is directed at the highway.

 

I say it's wiser and pragmatic to not work against the current, but to work with it. Harness it. Build a new dynamic community around it. Holy crap White Oak has dollar signs all around. Look at all these kids coming into an area they never would have before to hear music. Thats ripe to create a fun and interesting community. One that will actually be resilient and not silent and whimpering.

 

From being in that area its not much of a community. You are right though that if White Oak didn't exist then they could sleep. In fact that's all they would do is sleep. I mean what a terrible thing to be part of dynamic community instead of static and silent one.

I'm going by what the people in the area said about the noise disrupting their lives. The freeway noise is different, more of a white noise thing. Perhaps White Oak could show they are part of the community by only having outdoor concerts between noon and 2pm on weekdays. 

[BigFootsSocks]

Noon and 2pm hahahahahaha 

[Triton]

On 2/10/2018 at 5:23 PM, Luminare said:

 

No its not shut down. I went to a concert last night there. Its actually doing pretty well. The venue is great and I think has a great future ahead. They are still having problems with the outdoor venue though. NIMBY's have been pushing back claiming that the noise from the outdoor venue would adversely impact their "community". The lawsuits seem frivolous anyway. White Oak already is built, got through permitting etc... and its only now that they care. If they actually cared they would have been there during the design phase. This venue actually wants to do something for the community.

 

I am not part of the lawsuit in anyway but I do live in the neighborhood affected by it and, if you go to the beginning of this thread, you'll see that me and the entire area were voicing our concerns long before it was built to the developer, to the superneighborhood representatives and to the the city itself. And despite all that effort, it still got built along with the city saying they would throw in millions in improvements to the area which have not come as of yet. Also, why is community in quotations? Just curious... you're saying I live in a crackhouse or something? My cousin, my aunt, and my uncle own individual homes here, and there are a lot of similar families just like that here in the neighborhood and most have lived here since the 1930s and were previously Union Pacific workers.

 

For the noise itself, my home does in fact shake now with the windows getting rattled the worse. I can't afford sound proofing my home yet. My fiance is studying at UofH for finance and it's nearly impossible to study for anything in our home when a concert occurs. My bed rattles when I have to go to bed early, especially artists that are heavy in bass. So to say that the lawsuit is a bunch of garbage, I wish you would actually come over to my place during a concert and experience it yourself.

 

Now, let me just make it clear, I personally go to this venue myself. I've gone to 7 different concerts here so far, including the opening M83 concert. I am not wanting this place to be shut down but I absolutely know they can build soundproof clear walls that would mitigate a lot of the sound but it's an added expense that they see no benefit in. The people that decided to get a lawyer did it as a last resort because they felt like their voices were not being heard anywhere else. In my own personal view, I really wish WOMH would just try to prevent sound from escaping into the neighborhood.... As for the I-45 sound comment, it just sounds like distance-white background noise. I can even record a video and you wouldn't really here much. The only thing ungodly over here before WOMH are those damn train horns. lol

[Luminare]

56 minutes ago, Triton said:

 

I am not part of the lawsuit in anyway but I do live in the neighborhood affected by it and, if you go to the beginning of this thread, you'll see that me and the entire area were voicing our concerns long before it was built to the developer, to the superneighborhood representatives and to the the city itself. And despite all that effort, it still got built along with the city saying they would throw in millions in improvements to the area which have not come as of yet. Also, why is community in quotations? Just curious... you're saying I live in a crackhouse or something? My cousin, my aunt, and my uncle own individual homes here, and there are a lot of similar families just like that here in the neighborhood and most have lived here since the 1930s and were previously Union Pacific workers.

 

For the noise itself, my home does in fact shake now with the windows getting rattled the worse. I can't afford sound proofing my home yet. My fiance is studying at UofH for finance and it's nearly impossible to study for anything in our home when a concert occurs. My bed rattles when I have to go to bed early, especially artists that are heavy in bass. So to say that the lawsuit is a bunch of garbage, I wish you would actually come over to my place during a concert and experience it yourself.

 

Now, let me just make it clear, I personally go to this venue myself. I've gone to 7 different concerts here so far, including the opening M83 concert. I am not wanting this place to be shut down but I absolutely know they can build soundproof clear walls that would mitigate a lot of the sound but it's an added expense that they see no benefit in. The people that decided to get a lawyer did it as a last resort because they felt like their voices were not being heard anywhere else. In my own personal view, I really wish WOMH would just try to prevent sound from escaping into the neighborhood.... As for the I-45 sound comment, it just sounds like distance-white background noise. I can even record a video and you wouldn't really here much. The only thing ungodly over here before WOMH are those damn train horns. lol

 

I understand that I'm probably very naive and off base about this area, and would like to know more. I honestly didn't know it was that bad. Should probably experience it before hand before making such a statement. More than anything I get annoyed when we finally get something cool in town and it gets attacked. It's just gotten painful to watch. What I'm not naive of is how these projects do get pushed by cities when they want to redevelop an area or when its seen as a marquee project that will get more development later. Currently working on a project that is this case. Essentially its a project that will lead to bigger projects and so a lot at stake. I feel for everyone evolved. While not a one way fix, this could certainly have been alleviated if we had a more robust planning authority and comprehensive plan to identify places for projects like these early on.

I should definitely come and see whats up some time. See the place literally bring the house down haha. Talk about a new concept for demolition. Demo by concert bass!

Finally, I agree with you wholeheartedly that more can be done. When I was walking around there were still way to many open areas for sound to escape. The glass or Plexiglas that you see as sound barriers that are normally used on highways would be a good way to go (as you have addressed). In the future I would like to see that parking space next to it be replaced by a 4-5 story building (same on the other side) to help conceal the sound.

[Triton]

37 minutes ago, Luminare said:

 

I understand that I'm probably very naive and off base about this area, and would like to know more. I honestly didn't know it was that bad. Should probably experience it before hand before making such a statement. More than anything I get annoyed when we finally get something cool in town and it gets attacked. It's just gotten painful to watch. What I'm not naive of is how these projects do get pushed by cities when they want to redevelop an area or when its seen as a marquee project that will get more development later. Currently working on a project that is this case. Essentially its a project that will lead to bigger projects and so a lot at stake. I feel for everyone evolved. While not a one way fix, this could certainly have been alleviated if we had a more robust planning authority and comprehensive plan to identify places for projects like these early on.

I should definitely come and see whats up some time. See the place literally bring the house down haha. Talk about a new concept for demolition. Demo by concert bass!

Finally, I agree with you wholeheartedly that more can be done. When I was walking around there were still way to many open areas for sound to escape. The glass or Plexiglas that you see as sound barriers that are normally used on highways would be a good way to go (as you have addressed). In the future I would like to see that parking space next to it be replaced by a 4-5 story building (same on the other side) to help conceal the sound.

Sure, no worries. I along with people that live here in this neighborhood see the area redeveloping and, frankly, are excited to see this area coming back to life. In fact, there's been half a dozen new homes built in the past couple of years in the neighborhood now, with the vacant lot going on sale next to my home for $100k. Before WOMH, there were literally two crack houses there and I felt it was never safe to walk down North St. where WOMH and Raven Tower are located. Now with that all being there, I walk down there all the time past it to the Woodland Heights area with no issue at all.

 

Now, there are some of course that can't stand change and they are opposed to this no matter what. Well, in my opinion, that's going to get us no where. I think there's a balance that can be struck between the neighborhood and the venue, but unfortunately, I don't think the barrier I am speaking of will ever get built. I imagine this loud noise will be something we'll have to adapt to, and unfortunately, the low income people here will have to simply deal with it since they can't afford sound proofing. 

 

Anyway, I see a lot of development headed this way and the Northside is absolutely taking off now, something I couldn't say just 2 years ago. Look at a company called Refuge Homes. They are building throughout the Northside now and their products are impressive, though the prices are somewhat shocking ($400k to well over $600k single family homes) but it's a sign of the times that development is extending from the Heights to over here. You see that even with all the new restaurants like Fusion Taco, Hughie's, Morningstar, an upcoming restaurant at Pecore and N Main, and many others in the works along N Main.

[tanith27]

Triton, have you been following any of the I-45 construction talks?  I'm sure sound mitigation is a popular item, and perhaps some of what you expected from the city could be done simultaneously here during the rebuild....

[Triton]

On 2/12/2018 at 0:44 PM, tanith27 said:

Triton, have you been following any of the I-45 construction talks?  I'm sure sound mitigation is a popular item, and perhaps some of what you expected from the city could be done simultaneously here during the rebuild....

 

Actually, that is what I have been thinking (or hoping at least). The plan is to build a bike trail along Little White Oak Bayou behind WOMH and the Raven Tower, among other improvements such as lighting, and I think the only way they're going to be able to connect that to the White Oak Bayou trail is by having the I-45 bridge at least rebuilt to allow a bike trail to go underneath it.

[ajgallion]

Does anyone have predictions on this area? I recently visited this area and I thought the Fulton North area would be amazing for retail and living. The rail line was appealing. Perfect area for retail on lower and 4 or 5 stories of living.

 

I meant the area is definitely raw but i feel like it could be very hip soon. And thoughts?

[Triton]

13 hours ago, ajgallion said:

Does anyone have predictions on this area? I recently visited this area and I thought the Fulton North area would be amazing for retail and living. The rail line was appealing. Perfect area for retail on lower and 4 or 5 stories of living.

 

I meant the area is definitely raw but i feel like it could be very hip soon. And thoughts?

 

Nothing yet. A few businesses have ventured over there, such as Ham Cycles, but have moved out since it's not quite there yet. It's definitely prime to be something really cool in the future and it's oh-so close to downtown. I'm telling ya'll, drive through the Northside when you have a chance like around the Hogan area, somewhat close to the Hardy Yards development. The area is really taking off and it just started happening very recently. Let's look back at these posts in say 3 years and see where we're at.

 

Here's the company I was talking about earlier: http://realestaterefuge.com/construction-services/

 

[thatguysly]

I am looking at buying in this area now. Value will only go up.

[IamHouston]

I've been in the area for about 4 years now. I originally grew up in the Heights and moved to the Northside as we've had family in the area for a few generations. I wasn't really feeling connected to any of the new residents in the Heights. I leased my house and made the jump across 45 to join childhood friends and family. Most of my family that previously lived in the Heights lives here now as well, as most were slowly pushed out over the last 10 years. It still blows me away when people act like Northside is newly discovered or an "up and coming" area. It's pretty much always been here, and has always had a really tight knit community. I know it's likely going to way of the Heights, and it's a tough pill to swallow. But I'll be the first to admit I'm going to miss "Sabor del Northside", the Christmas Slab parade on Fulton, Day of the Dead altars on Paschal street, the mini pop ups at Houston Warehouse Studios, and the carne asadas every Sunday. North Main is in need of a face lift it's true, and while I do hope to continue to see some change, I hope it doesn't come in the way of overpriced and "trendy" bungalows like Refuge builds. Living across the street from one of their recent remodels has been a bit of a pain. The developers really could care less about the neighborhood, but I can't really judge them for it. It's just capitalism at is finest. But until it all comes down, you can find me on my front porch swing politely waving at the new Columbus' and crew driving through in their fancy Teslas and germans discovering the neighborhood. 

[Ross]

18 hours ago, ajgallion said:

Does anyone have predictions on this area? I recently visited this area and I thought the Fulton North area would be amazing for retail and living. The rail line was appealing. Perfect area for retail on lower and 4 or 5 stories of living.

 

I meant the area is definitely raw but i feel like it could be very hip soon. And thoughts?

I would vote to rip out the rail on Fulton. It's a pain in the ass to get across. My wife's family lives East of Fulton, and getting to a spot where the rail can be crossed to return to the Greater Heights area is getting old.

[Naviguessor]

Yes, we know, Ross.  This is It's not about the rail. 

[BigFootsSocks]

“Rip out the rail” is up there along with “send police to beat up the homeless” for Best HAIF takes 2018.

[wilcal]

Settlement reached for outdoor shows:

 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/White-Oak-Music-Hall-noise-lawsuit-settlement-2018-12860229.php?utm_campaign=twitter-premium&utm_source=CMS Sharing Button&utm_medium=social

 

40 shows/year with only 20 on school nights.

 

School night shows cut off at 930PM

[Triton]

4 hours ago, wilcal said:

Settlement reached for outdoor shows:

 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/White-Oak-Music-Hall-noise-lawsuit-settlement-2018-12860229.php?utm_campaign=twitter-premium&utm_source=CMS Sharing Button&utm_medium=social

 

40 shows/year with only 20 on school nights.

 

School night shows cut off at 930PM

 

As a neighbor, I have to say I think it's a fair compromise. Still wish they built the clear glass walls I had proposed which I think would lessen some of the noise, I still think this is fair especially with the sound monitors.

 

It was pretty devastating in the beginning but I guess I've learned to live with it. The bass still is bad some nights and still literally rocks my bedroom, but I suppose it's getting better. Just hoping this development brings more retail and restaurants to the area.

[Angostura]

I kind of love the idea of being able to go see a show and still be home before 10PM.

[Triton]

22 hours ago, wilcal said:

Settlement reached for outdoor shows:

 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/White-Oak-Music-Hall-noise-lawsuit-settlement-2018-12860229.php?utm_campaign=twitter-premium&utm_source=CMS Sharing Button&utm_medium=social

 

40 shows/year with only 20 on school nights.

 

School night shows cut off at 930PM

 

Hmmm... the article doesn't say that though:

 

Quote

Under the terms of the deal, the music hall at 2915 N. Main will hold no more than 40 amplified outdoor shows per year and a maximum of 20 on evenings before a regular school day. Shows scheduled on nights before State of Texas Assessment of Academic Resources, or STAAR, testing for grades 5-8 must end at 9:30 p.m.

 

Shows won't end at 9:30pm during school nights unless it's during this testing period.

[wilcal]

48 minutes ago, Triton said:

 

Hmmm... the article doesn't say that though:

 

 

Shows won't end at 9:30pm during school nights unless it's during this testing period.

 

They edited it! That would make more sense though.

[hindesky]

Does this apply to outdoor shows only or is for their indoor shows too?

[Triton]

49 minutes ago, hindesky said:

Does this apply to outdoor shows only or is for their indoor shows too?

 

Lawn shows only.

[Triton]

On 6/27/2017 at 3:18 AM, CrockpotandGravel said:

More renderings of Oui Eats or Oui Eat at Little White Oak (2645 N Main), part of the White Oak Music Hall development

Pictures from Loopnet:










Additional renderings here in the forum.
 

 

I am guessing this fell through? Seems like all the old links I go to for this project are gone and when I tried to reach out, I didn't get a response.

 

Edit: Nevermind. Looks like this link works now: http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/2645-N-Main-St-Houston-TX/7663872/

 

2019 construction

[gene]

I haven't been to a show in awhile...I need to get over to that area to check it all out...does it seem like there is a big boom in development of the area still? I hope the venue is being respectful of the neighbors and everyone is starting to be excited to have more things to do in that part of town! 

[Triton]

Largest Event I've seen so far here... Turn Out For Texas:

WOMH - Turn Out For Texas by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

WOMH - Turn Out For Texas by Marc longoria, on Flickr

[Triton]

3 hours ago, CrockpotandGravel said:

A rendering of the exterior of Black Page Brewing Co. at 210 Glen Park, part of the White Oak Music Hall development

Rendering is from W Squared Architects.

 

That might be old then? The barn was demo'd.

[Triton]

From WOIH Partners to Planning Commission: (Wanting to build multi-family project)

 

 

Quote

The reasonable use of this property is patently commercial. It is adjacent to 4 acres of non-use restricted property that
currently includes a volleyball bar (Sideout VolleyBar at 2623 Keene, 77009) and a 300 car parking lot utilized by White
Oak Music Hall and the Volleybar. In the future we are hoping to develop multi-family residential on the site of the
parking lot and anticipate a need for connectivity between Keene and Ideal Street which these two properties would
provide because they are adjacent to Ideal. Both LWRH in its fund raising prior to the MLSA and the City of Houston
have consistently described this property’s highest and best use as commercial. It has sat vacant and undeveloped and
commercial development is much needed. This need is best outlined in the 2009 Northside Needs Assessment- Livable
Centers Study commissioned by the Houston/Galveston Area Council and Northside Management District (Exhibit B).
These properties are within the Transit Oriented Development Area of the Northline Metro (Red) where the study
encourages “creating a mix of land uses such as residential, office, retail, civic uses, and entertainment” (p.10). Tracts
1&9 are in the head of the TOD and intertwined geographically within the already existing commercial infrastructure
created by White Oak Music Hall, Sideout Volleybar, and hopefully higher density multi-family in the near future. As
LWRH disclosed to investors in their prospectus (Exhibit C) months before the MLSA passing, these tracts were chosen
specifically because they were “an attractive development site for retail and bar/restaurant businesses”. If these tracts,
only because they had previously been vacant at the time of the MLSA, were to be restricted to single family it would be
to ignore the most reasonable and best use of the land and deprive the owner of moving forward with the commercial
project he had presented prior to the MLSA.

 

 

[Triton]

 

It appears construction has started on Oui Eats complex. Not sure if these renderings are still relevant.

[southerncrj]

Indeed, there has been some movement during the last few days. It seems they have at least cleaned up the lot and put up new fencing. They also eliminated the temporary gravel path that connected N. Main St. with the WOMH Parking lot and Sideout Volleybar. The two photos below are taken from Keene St. looking toward N. Main St.  

 

[Triton]

Food hall. 🕵️‍♂️