Crime In Downtown

[kylejack]

Overly zealous cops are at it again. Was that guy a danger to anyone? Not until the cops got involved. How many folks on a typical Houston street are carrying guns? Quite a few. We will all be in the most danger when the cops are the only ones with the guns.

Also, think about it. When you are riding the dog, it only makes sense to be packing a shooter or two. Look at what parts of town those stations tend to be in.

Weapons on the buses and in the station are illegal. The gun was stolen and involved in another Houston crime. The guy was wanted for shooting 3 people in California.

[Highway6]

I don't see the point of this game. It would cost the city and the tax payers in order to buy off Greyhound with enough incentives to move.

BUT.. since this game is already being played..... I think access to the rail network and a Metro TC is much more important than freeway access. If your typical Greyhound user had a car, he wouldn't be needing a bus in the first place. Freeways are mostly used for express busses to bypass the local streets, if you look at the system map, you have essentially one bus crossing 10 at almost every major exit and no local buses running parallel. For any given site on 10, you'd only have access to 1 bus line.

I think the idea of incorporating Greyhound into a Metro rail/bus Intermodal facility is the right way to go. I just wish people would stop talking about Greyhound like an object to be moved as if we the people or the city has that control. Greyhound would have to be presented with a plan, better (partially Metro funded) facilities, and financial incentives because they have all the power in this situation. I'm sure they are perfectly happy with where they are.

Also.. where's the incentive for the city here? Wherever Greyhound moves, there will still be increased crime. They'd just be moving responsibility for monitoring it from one police district to another. Midtown ( the mgmt group and the residents ) and the City are two different groups. Would it be financially worth it to the city to appease one group by moving a problem elsewhere ?

[HoustonMidtown]

Overly zealous cops are at it again. Was that guy a danger to anyone? Not until the cops got involved. How many folks on a typical Houston street are carrying guns? Quite a few. We will all be in the most danger when the cops are the only ones with the guns.

Also, think about it. When you are riding the dog, it only makes sense to be packing a shooter or two. Look at what parts of town those stations tend to be in.

Are you serious?? The guy was on the run from SF where he shot multiple people, had a stolen gun, etc....

[Jeebus]

BUT.. since this game is already being played..... I think access to the rail network and a Metro TC is much more important than freeway access. If your typical Greyhound user had a car, he wouldn't be needing a bus in the first place. Freeways are mostly used for express busses to bypass the local streets, if you look at the system map, you have essentially one bus crossing 10 at almost every major exit and no local buses running parallel. For any given site on 10, you'd only have access to 1 bus line.

I-10 was intended to be more convenient to Greyhound, but I understand your point.

Also.. where's the incentive for the city here? Wherever Greyhound moves, there will still be increased crime. They'd just be moving responsibility for monitoring it from one police district to another. Midtown ( the mgmt group and the residents ) and the City are two different groups. Would it be financially worth it to the city to appease one group by moving a problem elsewhere ?

Is either group appeased now?

[ricco67]

I don't see the point of this game. It would cost the city and the tax payers in order to buy off Greyhound with enough incentives to move.

BUT.. since this game is already being played..... I think access to the rail network and a Metro TC is much more important than freeway access. If your typical Greyhound user had a car, he wouldn't be needing a bus in the first place. Freeways are mostly used for express busses to bypass the local streets, if you look at the system map, you have essentially one bus crossing 10 at almost every major exit and no local buses running parallel. For any given site on 10, you'd only have access to 1 bus line.

I think the idea of incorporating Greyhound into a Metro rail/bus Intermodal facility is the right way to go. I just wish people would stop talking about Greyhound like an object to be moved as if we the people or the city has that control. Greyhound would have to be presented with a plan, better (partially Metro funded) facilities, and financial incentives because they have all the power in this situation. I'm sure they are perfectly happy with where they are.

Also.. where's the incentive for the city here? Wherever Greyhound moves, there will still be increased crime. They'd just be moving responsibility for monitoring it from one police district to another. Midtown ( the mgmt group and the residents ) and the City are two different groups. Would it be financially worth it to the city to appease one group by moving a problem elsewhere ?

I agree, there is no incentive, but since we're being "smart" might as well figure out what is the best.

My reasoning for I-10 @ Patterson is that the buses to be able to easily there there, as well as they would be fairly easy to access two two different metro lines and their respective TC centers. Additionally, the rail line is (supposedly) to be built along washington in a few years. Let's not forget the close proximity to Walmart nearby.

[Highway6]

Is either group appeased now?

Does the city even care one way or the other about Greyhound being in Midtown ?

Just seems like to me, Midtown (the mgmt group and the residents) will get a lot more out of it if Greyhound decides to move than the City does.... and since the city is going to have to be the one to fork over the incentives..... does the city win?

Edited May 9, 2011 by Highway6

[Jeebus]

Does the city even care one way or the other about Greyhound being in Midtown ?

Just seems like to me, Midtown (the mgmt group and the residents) will get a lot more out of it if Greyhound decides to move than the City does.... and since the city is going to have to be the one to fork over the incentives..... does the city win?

I thought the Midtown TIRZ falls under the city, which is also who I thought we were talking about.

[jdbaker]

Problem is.. Grayhound is a private entity. Greyhound relocation isn't up to the City, isn't up to the midtown mgmt district, and isn't up to all their neighbors that don't want them there.

If the city was inclined to do so, it could make life difficult for Greyhound by altering the traffic flow in the blocks surrounding the station. The train already makes access less than ideal, however, playing games with no left turns and one-ways could probably make the site unsuitable for continuing operation as a bus station. That's what I would do.

[RedScare]

...as far as saying that no one else would want them, it would be like Walmart 'invading' the heights, lots of unhappy residents, but ultimately it's something those people have to live with.

You mean kinda like it would be if they decided to leave it exactly where it is?

[editor]

I think it's important to figure out what it is about that Greyhound station that draws crime. I've seen Greyhound stations in plenty of cities that are as bad as Houston's or worse. But I've also seen Greyhound stations in cities that were perfectly fine.

Blaming the Greyhound station for crime is like blaming Walgreens stores for homelessness because there isn't a Walgreens in America that doesn't have a homeless guy begging in front of it.

[brian0123]

I think it's important to figure out what it is about that Greyhound station that draws crime. I've seen Greyhound stations in plenty of cities that are as bad as Houston's or worse. But I've also seen Greyhound stations in cities that were perfectly fine.

Blaming the Greyhound station for crime is like blaming Walgreens stores for homelessness because there isn't a Walgreens in America that doesn't have a homeless guy begging in front of it.

You're right. My buddy rides Greyhound and says the Austin station is very nice. My theory is that HPD and Greyhound do nothing about the loitering going on around it. If they moved in full force and ran off anyone hanging out w/out a bag... then things might change. Problem is people hang out even inside the station (and Greyhound's security does nothing to run them off). When I've been in there, they had homeless guys opening the front doors for people asking for money. If Greyhound won't even make an effort to run them off... there is no hope for this place.

[samagon]

I agree, moving it without looking at the actual problem isn't any good. It's a known entity where it is, and I'm sure it can be made a not so bad place if gh gave a poop about it.

I know it's there, and stay away from the area when I can, I'd like that to not be though. As it is, people avoid it like this huge sinkhole in midtown. Wherever it would be moved, if it wasn't kept up it would be the same sinkhole of avoidance.

[kylejack]

There's been a shooting Downtown, Dallas at Main. No details or articles yet.

[HoustonMidtown]

There's been a shooting Downtown, Dallas at Main. No details or articles yet.

 

Outside Starbucks....

 

http://www.khou.com/news/local/HPD-officer-opens-fire-on-suspect-outside-downtown-Starbucks-247554451.html

 

http://www.click2houston.com/news/officerinvolved-shooting-reported-in-downtown-houston/-/1735978/24711418/-/hoj3viz/-/index.html

 

 

Edited February 27, 2014 by HoustonMidtown

[kylejack]

Here's the rumors I've been able to cobble together, take with a grain of salt. This is like fourth hand, so could have lots of inaccuracies:

 

A guy in a trenchcoat went into the Starbucks, stole two bags of coffee, and ran. Cops ordered him to stop. He didn't, and the cops opened fire.

[H-Town Man]

Here's the rumors I've been able to cobble together, take with a grain of salt. This is like fourth hand, so could have lots of inaccuracies:

 

A guy in a trenchcoat went into the Starbucks, stole two bags of coffee, and ran. Cops ordered him to stop. He didn't, and the cops opened fire.

 

They shot a guy running away with two bags of coffee?  I hope that is not true.

 

[arche_757]

If he threatened someone or made a pretense that he was armed then perhaps the shooting will be viewed as warrented?  Otherwise - I agree - VERY excessive use of force.  What happened to cops running down perps?

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

have you seen the cops today? The only thing they can run down is a donut... lol

[HoustonMidtown]

If he threatened someone or made a pretense that he was armed then perhaps the shooting will be viewed as warrented?  Otherwise - I agree - VERY excessive use of force.  What happened to cops running down perps?

 

They said he swung a 4x4 (?) at the cop  (Im guessing they meant 2x4)

 

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=9447312

Edited February 27, 2014 by HoustonMidtown

[arche_757]

A 2x4 being swung by someone probably does not constitute the use of deadly force.  A knife or another firearm does - unless the perp is not threatening anyone else (eg: holding it to his body or head).

 

I understand there were 2 shots fired!  One struck him in the arm, the other?  Who knows?  I guess if the guy was much bigger than the cop (who was in plain clothes) then perhaps shooting him was required to stop him.  Regardless, I thought this is why HPD started to use tasers?  Seems like a perfect chance to use one from what I've read so far.

[H-Town Man]

A 2x4 being swung by someone probably does not constitute the use of deadly force.  A knife or another firearm does - unless the perp is not threatening anyone else (eg: holding it to his body or head).

 

I understand there were 2 shots fired!  One struck him in the arm, the other?  Who knows?  I guess if the guy was much bigger than the cop (who was in plain clothes) then perhaps shooting him was required to stop him.  Regardless, I thought this is why HPD started to use tasers?  Seems like a perfect chance to use one from what I've read so far.

 

Swinging a 2x4 seems as deadly as swinging a baseball bat, especially if it was a big person swinging it.  Ever seen Inglorious Basterds?  If I'm a cop and someone's swinging that at me, I am pulling out the first human-stopping tool that my hand finds, be it taser or pistol.  Maybe pistol just to be safe.  The human skull is only so strong.

[arche_757]

Agreed.  However, if I am an assailant with a bat and at least 4' away from whomever I am trying to assail, and they pull out a handgun - I'm going to stop and beg for mercy or run like heck away from there hoping I don't get killed or seriously wounded.

 

I'm not faulting the officer, just saying perhaps a phaser set to stun would have been a better alternative.

[H-Town Man]

Agreed.  However, if I am an assailant with a bat and at least 4' away from whomever I am trying to assail, and they pull out a handgun - I'm going to stop and beg for mercy or run like heck away from there hoping I don't get killed or seriously wounded.

 

I'm not faulting the officer, just saying perhaps a phaser set to stun would have been a better alternative.

 

 

 

Definitely, and if you get shot begging for mercy, it's plain murder. But assailing a cop with a 2x4 sounds like someone has a death wish.

[arche_757]

The good news is that the person who was doing this wasn't killed - the officer shot him in the arm.  Which I wonder how soundly said officer will sleep tonight wondering if he got lucky he shot him there, or that the assailant moved just the right way and the arm kept the bullet from hitting him in a more precarious location?  Imagine what the guy must feel if he was aiming at say the perps head or chest?

 

I often wonder how military members get help for their ptsd but police officers seldom do (at least its not widely discussed); but police must suffer many of these same issues (even just being in a car chase) there must be some long term issues these officers suffer from - perhaps unknowingly at that?  I mean the officer who shot the guy at the HPD Starbucks is only on desk duty for 3 days.  If I were in his shoes I would need more than that amount of time to clear my head and be able to react/think properly to a crisis situation - training or no training.

Edited February 27, 2014 by arche_757

[Nate99]

Missed this last week, but I walk by there all the time. 

 

There are several corners that seem to attract a lot of crazy, that's one of them.