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102-Story Tower Planned

lockmat

By lockmat
in Houston Neverbuilt

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nativehoustonion

nativehoustonion

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It has a rumor for a few years. Now would be time with the tax abatements. Many people are moving here. I don't care if it stands out a long it has amazing architectural design. We thought the Williams tower use to stand out. If true the view would be amazing! You could the whole city. We may pass Chicago in population in 2020. Toronto did and Chicago did not like it. We need another supertall.

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Subdude

Subdude

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That Astros parking lot you mentioned is owned by...a railroad company??? ---> http://hcad.org/records/details.asp?crypt=%94%9A%B0%94%BFg%84%8D%80%7Bqd%8El%87tXtYW%9E%99%A2%D3%89%95%C2e%7CU%8A%7F%86%C0%AB%A8%AD%86%5E&bld=1&tab=1

 

...and also the Houston Sports Authority ---> http://hcad.org/records/details.asp?crypt=%94%9A%B0%94%BFg%84%8D%80%7Chf%8El%87tXtYW%9E%99%A2%D3%89%95%C2e%7CU%8A%7F%86%C0%AB%A8%AD%86%5E&bld=1&tab=1

 

If this is true and they still own it, they must be trying to improve that area, especially between BBVA and MMP, helping to connect the two. I can't imagine it taking two years for hcad to update their database.

 

edit: Could it be the first block I mentioned?

 

Louise Macey, a former city council member, and "current owner" (according to hcad, which seems very fishy) of this block (confirmed by google search of the address and suite number) is described by the linked story below as, "a below-the-radar middleman who can put together investment groups for land and commercial property plays."

 

Check out these other interesting quotes:

 

"Palmer will not disclose when Enron's option on the property runs out, but does say the company is in talks with real estate firms about development possibilities, and that multi-use would make sense."

 

"Multiple real estate sources say The Mills Corp. has been contacted about developing an "entertainment-themed" retail complex."

 

"One City Hall source says the Mills deal appears to be off -- at least for the moment. According to the source, the rumored development of a major retail complex -- similar to the Theater District's Bayou Place"

 

"Mills is currently testing "The Block," a new urban prototype designed for dense areas that features an open-air concept catering to younger crowds through innovative decor, restaurants, clubs and targeted retail."

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/1999/06/21/story1.html?page=all

 

This article is super old (1999), and The Mills Corp now seems like it as since been acquired by Simon Properties, per google. I'm not suggesting the same plans are in place, but it seems like he's had a vision of a major mixed-use development for this area for a long time, and this could be perfect timing for him. I'm going to research a little more and see if he still owns any other blocks in this area. It'd be a lot easier if it wasn't listed as "current owner" on hcad, as previously stated. To me, that seems very fishy.

 

http://hcad.org/records/details.asp?crypt=%94%9A%B0%94%BFg%84%8D%80%7Bol%8El%87tXtYW%9E%99%A2%D3%89%95%C2e%7CU%8A%7F%86%C0%AB%A8%AD%86%5E&bld=1&tab=1

 

Enron had proposed a mixed-use development on the site.  I think I posted a rendering once.  

 

 

I suppose it's possible, but it really strikes me as a stretch to try to develop an 80-floor tower at that location, outside of the downtown loop.  

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lockmat

lockmat

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Enron had proposed a mixed-use development on the site.  I think I posted a rendering once.  

 

 

I suppose it's possible, but it really strikes me as a stretch to try to develop an 80-floor tower at that location, outside of the downtown loop.  

I agree totally. The location is not very good at all, in my opinion, but if it's true, that's just my best guess.

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TowerSpotter

TowerSpotter

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New information? This is from City-Data, of all places.

"The Houston planning commission recently has been reported of a 102 story mixed use tower including hotel, residential, and minor office component. The tower is allegedly between 1,200-1,400 feet. The developer has yet to submit his bid on the tower but is actively in the conceptual phases for it. They're looking to next year for further information on it."

"You got it right, it's still in the discussion phase. They're waiting until next year to negotiate the tax increments Downtown with city hall and formally submitting their bid to the planning commission, if that's the route they want to go with their development."

"Not yet, like the Seattle and Dallas supertalls to be, this one is also in it's infancy stage. Next year there will be more physical details and a possible first conceptual rendering."

http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-vs-city/2010443-houston-lightrail-vs-phoenix-lightrail-2.html

 

 

A seattle supertall was just announced not too long ago...could this be the same one this guy was talking about???

 

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=208776

 

If so...this guy has to have some good connections. I think we could be hearing more about the Dallas and Houston ones pretty soon?

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lockmat

lockmat

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A seattle supertall was just announced not too long ago...could this be the same one this guy was talking about???

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=208776

If so...this guy has to have some good connections. I think we could be hearing more about the Dallas and Houston ones pretty soon?

If the 102-story is true, I wonder if they're relying on the incentives? Maybe that's part of the reason it was increased???

Also, did all the ones he listed below come true? And did he reveal any of them before we knew about them? That would further his credibility.

Red john:

You can add a few more on your list. Block 52 in Downtown (28 stories), a 35 story residential highrise in Downtown, another 28 story residential highrise in Downtown by a Chicago developer, another 25 story residential highrise in Downtown by Hines, 28 story residential tower by ZC near the convention district in Downtown, the 38 story tower next to the Texaco building downtown, which that building is also being converted into residential lofts. The 42 story Helix tower in the Museum District (south of Midtown and also on the light rail line). The Southmore in the Museum District by Hines, also 35 stories and along the light rail line. All of these being confirmed projects, already locked on finances and nearly all doing site work, all along the light rail line. Being a skyscraper enthusiast, I'm not going to bother listing the midrises but you've got the big ones on your list already.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-vs-city/2010443-houston-lightrail-vs-phoenix-lightrail-rail-2.html#ixzz2xptSAtch

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lockmat

lockmat

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Does anyone have a relationship with Red John? In listing planned supers in February, he doesn't list Houston:

As a metropolitan area, Miami moves up to second. Plus it has two supertalls proposed (buildings above 300 meters), as a skyline, it's arrived in every way. If it gets those two supertalls built, it will have both volume and height and be one of the only 5 cities (New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, and Houston) to have two buildings exceeding 300 meters and will join others like San Francisco, Philadelphia, and potentially Dallas and Seattle in getting it's first supertall this boom cycle. Atlanta has one as well.

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TowerSpotter

TowerSpotter

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If the 102-story is true, I wonder if they're relying on the incentives? Maybe that's part of the reason it was increased???

Also, did all the ones he listed below come true? And did he reveal any of them before we knew about them? That would further his credibility.

Red john:

You can add a few more on your list. Block 52 in Downtown (28 stories), a 35 story residential highrise in Downtown, another 28 story residential highrise in Downtown by a Chicago developer, another 25 story residential highrise in Downtown by Hines, 28 story residential tower by ZC near the convention district in Downtown, the 38 story tower next to the Texaco building downtown, which that building is also being converted into residential lofts. The 42 story Helix tower in the Museum District (south of Midtown and also on the light rail line). The Southmore in the Museum District by Hines, also 35 stories and along the light rail line. All of these being confirmed projects, already locked on finances and nearly all doing site work, all along the light rail line. Being a skyscraper enthusiast, I'm not going to bother listing the midrises but you've got the big ones on your list already.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-vs-city/2010443-houston-lightrail-vs-phoenix-lightrail-rail-2.html#ixzz2xptSAtch

Seems a bit logical, could be because of it.

Also I can't remember if I seen those other projects listed, maybe it was edited?

Does anyone have a relationship with Red John? In listing planned supers in February, he doesn't list Houston:

As a metropolitan area, Miami moves up to second. Plus it has two supertalls proposed (buildings above 300 meters), as a skyline, it's arrived in every way. If it gets those two supertalls built, it will have both volume and height and be one of the only 5 cities (New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, and Houston) to have two buildings exceeding 300 meters and will join others like San Francisco, Philadelphia, and potentially Dallas and Seattle in getting it's first supertall this boom cycle. Atlanta has one as well.

Urbannizer got some info from him awhile ago maybe he could try again but he did say by the summer time we should have more concrete news on the project.

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lockmat

lockmat

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ive heard rumors of a $2B downtown project on the drawing board, foreign investors.

Ummmm....ummm......ummmm....ummmm blah ablh ablh blah, can't speak.

What is the most expensive project already announced? 300 mil?

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Avossos

Avossos

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ive heard rumors of a $2B downtown project on the drawing board, foreign investors.

 

It would make sense foriegn investors want to make a statement in the Energy Capitol... It would up the ante downtown.

 

I will leave you with - "The best is yet to come"

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cloud713

cloud713

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It would make sense foriegn investors want to make a statement in the Energy Capitol... It would up the ante downtown.

 

I will leave you with - "The best is yet to come"

i dont think its oil money..

the Burj Khalifa was 1.5 billion dollars to build, at 2,717 feet tall and 3.3 million square feet (granted the UAE doesnt have the same codes and regulations as the US, so im sure it was cheaper to build there). now dont get me wrong, the skyscraper enthusiast in me is all for a 3,000 foot tower in Houston to take the title of worlds tallest building, but the realist in me says this would likely be a very large mixed use project (possibly with an office component anchored by a large foreign energy company). think GreenStreet or CityCentre on steroids.

when i was thinking of potential large scale mixed use developments that could possibly be comparable in size (or at least give an idea of the scale of a 2 billion dollar project), i stumbled across this...

it could be a long shot, but i was doing research into the cost of the huge Brickell City Center complex in Miami (a 1+ billion dollar development) and found that, low and behold, the investor behind the project was foreign.. now like i said, its a long shot. i realize there are lots of foreign companies in the world, but this one is known for building these huge mixed use developments in cities all across the world, and Houston isnt one of them (yet). and the Brickell City Center just so happens to be going through with an EIGHTY story building, the new tallest in Miami. sounds like a possibility to me.. Houston is booming, and if this company has taken notice (the Chinese seem to love the Rockets, so they probably know about Houston..), they likely see an incentive to bring their successful business model to our city for a new development. 

its Swire Properties/Swire Pacific Holdings Ltd, out of China/Hong Kong.. could this be our mystery investor?

 

"About Swire Properties Inc

For more than 40 years, Swire Properties has built projects that have transformed neighborhoods and city centers throughout the world into vibrant places where people live, work and play. Closer to home, we are proud of a 30-year successful track record in Miami demonstrated by our development of Brickell Key. Swire continues to confirm our confidence in Miami with development of Brickell City Centre.

A global company, Swire Properties Inc is the U.S.real estate subsidiary of the publicly listed Swire Pacific Holdings Ltd based in Hong Kong. Whether in Hong Kong, China or Miami, our ability to develop world-class mixed-use projects creates destinations and builds value for the communities around them."

 

http://brickellcitycentreconnect.com/project-description/

now where could a development of this magnitude possibly go? (Brickell City Center looks like it takes up at least 7 blocks) the Post Office site is an obvious choice, given the size of the property. other than that it looks like it would either have to go around the west/north sides of the baseball stadium, or on the southeast corner of downtown.

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ClutchCity

ClutchCity

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i dont think its oil money..

the Burj Khalifa was 1.5 billion dollars to build, at 2,717 feet tall and 3.3 million square feet (granted the UAE doesnt have the same codes and regulations as the US, so im sure it was cheaper to build there). now dont get me wrong, the skyscraper enthusiast in me is all for a 3,000 foot tower in Houston to take the title of worlds tallest building, but the realist in me says this would likely be a very large mixed use project (possibly with an office component anchored by a large foreign energy company). think GreenStreet or CityCentre on steroids.

when i was thinking of potential large scale mixed use developments that could possibly be comparable in size (or at least give an idea of the scale of a 2 billion dollar project), i stumbled across this...

it could be a long shot, but i was doing research into the cost of the huge Brickell City Center complex in Miami (a 1+ billion dollar development) and found that, low and behold, the investor behind the project was foreign.. now like i said, its a long shot. i realize there are lots of foreign companies in the world, but this one is known for building these huge mixed use developments in cities all across the world, and Houston isnt one of them (yet). and the Brickell City Center just so happens to be going through with an EIGHTY story building, the new tallest in Miami. sounds like a possibility to me.. Houston is booming, and if this company has taken notice (the Chinese seem to love the Rockets, so they probably know about Houston..), they likely see an incentive to bring their successful business model to our city for a new development.

now where could a development of this magnitude possibly go? (Brickell City Center looks like it takes up at least 7 blocks) the Post Office site is an obvious choice, given the size of the property. other than that it looks like it would either have to go around the west/north sides of the baseball stadium, or on the southeast corner of downtown.

Not gonna speculate who the developer is because there are a multitude of Chinese(and other Asian nationalities) investors making splashes in London, SF, NYC, Mia, etc due to lower returns at home(China is in for a hell of a real estate bubble) but I will speculate on the size.

While there are smaller buildings square foot wise(let's say the mystery development is 4 million square feet) that are incredibly tall like the Burj Khalifa, there are also larger buildings, such as the Sears(Willis) Tower at almost 4.5 million square feet and less then 1500 feet(though 1450 to the roof is nothing to sneeze at). While it would be awesome if we got a real power tower like that, I agree it seems unlikely. However, I also don't think it'll be as big land wise as Brickell(although the Post Office site makes a lot of sense) it doesn't seem too big to fit over 2 or 3 blocks/towers to fit better into downtown's current landscape. A super tall(300+ meter) and a shorter(200+ m) pair of towers seems to be like it would be the best choice in order to get a good site location. That way they could develop some blocks along Dallas(and probably make like thieves with all the tax incentives), plug into the current skyline district with a couple blocks in southern downtown but still north of Exxon's old tower(and have better access to the light rail), or snatch up some of the last few blocks along the East End line and further invigorate the convention district(although they'd probably have to squash some nice historic buildings to do so). Kind of rambled there sorry. Was just thinking out loud! Trying not to get too excited in case it falls through haha

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cloud713

cloud713

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Not gonna speculate who the developer is because there are a multitude of Chinese(and other Asian nationalities) investors making splashes in London, SF, NYC, Mia, etc due to lower returns at home(China is in for a hell of a real estate bubble) but I will speculate on the size.

While there are smaller buildings square foot wise(let's say the mystery development is 4 million square feet) that are incredibly tall like the Burj Khalifa, there are also larger buildings, such as the Sears(Willis) Tower at almost 4.5 million square feet and less then 1500 feet(though 1450 to the roof is nothing to sneeze at). While it would be awesome if we got a real power tower like that, I agree it seems unlikely. However, I also don't think it'll be as big land wise as Brickell(although the Post Office site makes a lot of sense) it doesn't seem too big to fit over 2 or 3 blocks/towers to fit better into downtown's current landscape. A super tall(300+ meter) and a shorter(200+ m) pair of towers seems to be like it would be the best choice in order to get a good site location. That way they could develop some blocks along Dallas(and probably make like thieves with all the tax incentives), plug into the current skyline district with a couple blocks in southern downtown but still north of Exxon's old tower(and have better access to the light rail), or snatch up some of the last few blocks along the East End line and further invigorate the convention district(although they'd probably have to squash some nice historic buildings to do so). Kind of rambled there sorry. Was just thinking out loud! Trying not to get too excited in case it falls through haha

ha, most of my post was rambling.. 

for sure, too early to speculate. i just thought it was interesting that the Brickell developer matched the criteria.

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Subdude

Subdude

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A $2b downtown project?  C'mon...  Color me majorly dubious.  Not to belabor the obvious, but chat boards aren't exactly renowned as reliable intelligence on these matters.  I'm sure that developers always toss ideas about, but that is a far cry from actual planning. 

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Triton

Triton

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ive heard rumors of a $2B downtown project on the drawing board, foreign investors.

 

That would rival the 3,281 ft Kingdom Tower currently under construction in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. The Kingdom Tower is set to cost $1.23 billion. 

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arche_757

arche_757

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I'll believe it when I see it.  How many supertalls get proposed that never get off the ground?

Perhaps we could have something like San Fran's Transbay that includes a large transit hub?  Maybe to connect in that HSR to Dallas?

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TowerSpotter

TowerSpotter

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That would rival the 3,281 ft Kingdom Tower currently under construction in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. The Kingdom Tower is set to cost $1.23 billion. 

 

This is odd....One World Trade Center cost is $3 billion+ and The Grand Wilshire is $1 billion. Why is it the Kingdom Tower's cost is less of One World Trade Center and just a little over the Grand Wilshire?

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Sellanious Caesar

Sellanious Caesar

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This is odd....One World Trade Center cost is $3 billion+ and The Grand Wilshire is $1 billion. Why is it the Kingdom Tower's cost is less of One World Trade Center and just a little over the Grand Wilshire?

Cheap labor and materials. The Middle East is notorious for importing near free labor and from Vietnam to Turkey and Russia is some of the worlds largest steel manufacturers. Cost to purchase and import material is inexpensive compared to the US.
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monarch

monarch

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normally, i shall concur with your thoughts as per consternation, regarding such a high dollar downtown proposition subdude.  however, before i proceed...   shall we bare in mind the "messenger".  whenever "swtsig" speaks as per any houston related proposition...   trust me, there is normally a "hint" of reality.  just saying.

 

A $2b downtown project?  C'mon...  Color me majorly dubious.  Not to belabor the obvious, but chat boards aren't exactly renowned as reliable intelligence on these matters.  I'm sure that developers always toss ideas about, but that is a far cry from actual planning. 

 

 

 

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TowerSpotter

TowerSpotter

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Cheap labor and materials. The Middle East is notorious for importing near free labor and from Vietnam to Turkey and Russia is some of the worlds largest steel manufacturers. Cost to purchase and import material is inexpensive compared to the US.

 

What about in the US....is anything cheaper depending on the state?

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