Downtown Houston 2025 Master Plan

[cspwal]

I put a marker down on the Days Inn: "Ugly needs to be demolished"

[bobruss]

23 hours ago, cspwal said:

I put a marker down on the Days Inn: "Ugly needs to be demolished"

I did also. Hopefully if enough of us mark it they will do something about it. It sure cant hurt if everyone marks it as a avoidance area.

Take the survey.

[kbates2]

Took it.  Marked the Days Inn.  My downtown was barely visible with all of the markers.

[bobruss]

Way to go kbates2. I hope everyone will take it. I had a terrible time using the trail marker and Im sure my routes looked like a drunken soldier, but I really took advantage of the comment sections for each question. I highly recommend all HAIFERS take the survey. Its your chance to make a difference. Don't miss this chance to let them know how you feel.

[bobruss]

Forgive me if there is already a thread for this.

 

HOUSTON ASPIRES TO BOOST ITS WORLD CLASS STATUS WITH PLAN HOUSTON

 

This months Texas Architect, Florence Tang writes about the Houston Downtown Management District's announcement of Plan Houston.

A plan to improve livability in downtown  and to redefine areas for development  is being developed

They will be holding public meetings and hope to have a draft for their proposal by the end of 2017. 

It sounds like a good opportunity for anyone truly interested in how downtown grows. Here's your chance.

I hope this includes room for organic growth and not a sterile environment designed like the Domain.

I always look forward to getting my Texas Architect. It's always a very good read and informative.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by bobruss

[H-Town Man]

This seems like something that should have happened 10 or 20 years ago. One would think by now that downtown is at a point where it doesn't need visionary plans to encourage development. As far as suggesting development guidelines, it is for the most part too late to save Texas Avenue from driveways and curb cuts, or Main Street from being lined with parking garages. But maybe it will do some good?

 

[downtownian]

1 hour ago, H-Town Man said:

This seems like something that should have happened 10 or 20 years ago. One would think by now that downtown is at a point where it doesn't need visionary plans to encourage development. As far as suggesting development guidelines, it is for the most part too late to save Texas Avenue from driveways and curb cuts, or Main Street from being lined with parking garages. But maybe it will do some good?

 

 

There was a plan (and it was implemented pretty successfully) developed 13 years ago called the "Houston Downtown Development Framework." It called for increased public space and additional residents and aided in the development of Discovery Green and the Downtown Living Initiative (subsidies for 5,000 apartment units).

 

I'm hopeful that this plan will call for and achieve additional parks and public spaces and integrate some of the various patches of downtown. Also hopeful it will have the city partner with private developers to develop a grocery store and more residential. 

[H-Town Man]

This article gives an interesting array of comments on issues that are being discussed for downtown's development. Apparently there was a Future of Downtown event at The Rice a few days ago, but this article was written prior as a kind of preview of the event. Anyone hear anything about what was said at the event?

 

https://www.bisnow.com/houston/news/retail/five-trends-to-watch-in-downtown-houston-92579?rt=62429

 

One of the more interesting bits was the discussion of two vacant blocks of land along La Branch that are owned by international companies. I assume these are the two blocks north of Root Park. I couldn't tell from the quote whether they were discussing anything with the landowners or if they are just hoping these blocks will get developed.

 

[Sanjorade]

Would be great to see some mixed use developments go on those two blocks. Parking, retail, and residential would be ideal IMO. 

[kdog08]

I think hotels and residences are still the catalyst for retail and to break the 9-5 aspect of downtown. Houston's DT  hotel additions are a good sign and bodes well for tourism/visitors. Houston has steadily been getting good reviews from travel and food critics. Something not mentioned in the article are the new parking garages going up that will bring more intown visitors. 

 

It certainly doesn't hurt the Astros and Rockets have been good for the last several years, averaging 37,000 and 18,000 per game respectively.

Edited September 25, 2018 by kdog08

[UtterlyUrban]

Why would New parking garages bring more “in town visitors”?  Was there a shortage of parking that kept “in town visitors” away?

 

 

[kbates2]

Yeah I think we have more parking than any downtown that I have ever seen.  I think the addition of new parking garages is a negative and just shows poor use of our current space.

[UtterlyUrban]

On 9/21/2018 at 11:18 AM, H-Town Man said:

This article gives an interesting array of comments on issues that are being discussed for downtown's development. Apparently there was a Future of Downtown event at The Rice a few days ago, but this article was written prior as a kind of preview of the event. Anyone hear anything about what was said at the event?

 

https://www.bisnow.com/houston/news/retail/five-trends-to-watch-in-downtown-houston-92579?rt=62429

 

One of the more interesting bits was the discussion of two vacant blocks of land along La Branch that are owned by international companies. I assume these are the two blocks north of Root Park. I couldn't tell from the quote whether they were discussing anything with the landowners or if they are just hoping these blocks will get developed.

 

I find Mr Eury’s discussion on retail enlightening but depressing.

 

this document was published 5 years ago and fully executed on by the taxpayer:

http://www.downtowndistrict.org/static/media/uploads/downtown_retail_task_force_report_sept_12_2013_online.pdf

 

yet, I read into Mr. Eury’s comments that it isn’t working:  Hard and soft goods Retail is not coming.  Heck, Mr. Eury now seems to see the tunnels as a “night time” shopping solution.  

 

Perhaps the author of the article didn’t capture Mr. Eury’s sentiments properly.  Perhaps I am interpreting the words wrong.  Or perhaps i’m not.

 

[LBC2HTX]

Retail and grocers wont come into downtown until there are more residents, which, even if there's a DTLI-redux or an oil-boom, will be another 5-10 years. 

 

More hotels are nice, but unless there's more for people to do downtown then they will really only benefit business travelers/convention-goers. Hotels in-and-of-themselves don't promote tourism unless they have world-class amenities (e.g. rooftop pools, day/night clubs, connected retail centers). The best thing Houston could do is allow casinos. 

[H-Town Man]

2 hours ago, UtterlyUrban said:

I find Mr Eury’s discussion on retail enlightening but depressing.

 

this document was published 5 years ago and fully executed on by the taxpayer:

http://www.downtowndistrict.org/static/media/uploads/downtown_retail_task_force_report_sept_12_2013_online.pdf

 

yet, I read into Mr. Eury’s comments that it isn’t working:  Hard and soft goods Retail is not coming.  Heck, Mr. Eury now seems to see the tunnels as a “night time” shopping solution.  

 

Perhaps the author of the article didn’t capture Mr. Eury’s sentiments properly.  Perhaps I am interpreting the words wrong.  Or perhaps i’m not.

 

 

I did not see where Bob Eury said in this article that retail is not coming. Granted we obviously haven't seen it, but this is also a terrible time for retail across the board, with Amazon changing everything and investors scared of physical retail. Downtown Austin has a decent amount of retail; I guess when we have as many residents/visitors as they do, we could have this as well? This is an attainable goal over the next 5-10 years.

 

[j_cuevas713]

2 hours ago, UtterlyUrban said:

I find Mr Eury’s discussion on retail enlightening but depressing.

 

this document was published 5 years ago and fully executed on by the taxpayer:

http://www.downtowndistrict.org/static/media/uploads/downtown_retail_task_force_report_sept_12_2013_online.pdf

 

yet, I read into Mr. Eury’s comments that it isn’t working:  Hard and soft goods Retail is not coming.  Heck, Mr. Eury now seems to see the tunnels as a “night time” shopping solution.  

 

Perhaps the author of the article didn’t capture Mr. Eury’s sentiments properly.  Perhaps I am interpreting the words wrong.  Or perhaps i’m not.

 

Yeah I don't know where you got that retail is not coming either. As downtown continues to grow and more people move in, it's only a matter of time. 

[Luminare]

I don't know which article some of y'all read. Here is the full text in context to one of the 5 topics in full:

 

"What To Buy?"

 

"One sector missing is soft goods retailers, places where residents can purchase basic apparel and fashion, home goods and other specialty items, Eury said.  The challenge of developing more ground-level retail is that many of the buildings were constructed with a large footprint not ideal for smaller stores. It is expensive to reconfigure buildings to accommodate retail. Downtown is also limited by the amount of available space for new development or redevelopment projects, he said.    Moving forward, it will be important that the city continues to embrace and promote the tunnel system, Eury said. The problem historically was the shorter operational hours due to the dependence on the workday traffic. “You could always do business during the day, [but] can you do business at night," Hernandez said."

 

I see no where in this that Eury says that retail won't work in downtown. His concern is where to expand it. That's completely different. He obviously wants retail on ground level, but there are some things that are preventing it. Until we find creative work-arounds to solve the problem, he suggests that we embrace the tunnel system more as a way to bridge the gap. The problem with the tunnel system is that its still heavily focused on the office buildings its connected too which are mainly operational from 9-5 meaning retail will only function during that time as well. Its actually an interesting situation/problem to solve. I personally think the new Captial Building is taking a good approach. its clearly an office building, but has that large inviting atrium that will guide one into the tunnel system. We just need more visible access into it.

 

As for the grocerers. Again the full quote and title for context:

 

"Grocery Shortage?"

 

"The lack of a large-scale, full-service grocer remains a concern, and is one of the most-cited needs for Downtown's future growth. It is only a matter of time before a brand like H-E-B or Whole Foods enters the corridor, Downtown District Executive Director Bob Eury said. Currently, the only grocer is Phoenicia Specialty Foods, which opened Downtown in 2006. Eury and other Downtown experts will discuss what's next for Downtown Houston at Bisnow's Future of Downtown event Sept. 18. Marcus & Millichap First Vice President Justin Miller is not totally sold that Downtown residents desire a full grocery store and would be surprised if one opened. More likely options include a smaller, specialty grocer, an urbanized, multiple-story version of a major retailer like the Whole Foods in Midtown or more mobile grocery trucks like Grit Grocer, which park at Market Square every Thursday, he said. Houstonians are accustomed to driving to a grocery store and are using ride-sharing apps more frequently. Therefore, shopping at a grocery store a few miles away will not deter families from living in Downtown, he believes. The Randalls location at 2225 Louisiana St., south of the central business district, is an option nearby.  "

 

Its actually the opposite of what some of you have been concerned about. Eury actually wants to get a HEB and Whole Foods into town sayings its only "a matter of time". Its this other guy Justin Miller (I have no clue who he is, or why he matters. It seems bisnow needed some opposite opinion to at least be fair). Justin Miller is the guy who doesn't believe its worth it and believes we already have what we need.

 

Lets be sure to be more critical with what we read. I was pleased by the article and its seems like Downtown District higher ups are doing everything they can to expand downtown and have a bigger vision. Its the current business class that has been there forever that doesn't seem to think beyond what downtown has always been (then again they probably have never lived a day in town.)

[kdog08]

On 9/25/2018 at 5:42 AM, UtterlyUrban said:

Why would New parking garages bring more “in town visitors”?  Was there a shortage of parking that kept “in town visitors” away?

 

 

 

They make visiting downtown much easier. Perhaps we are at peak parking garages due to ride sharing, but I view parking garages as a solid investment towards a more well rounded downtown. I certainly use the parking garages when I'm visiting from Austin for an Astros or Rockets game. I've been parking near Market Square during this Astros' season and have really enjoyed how active the area has gotten. 

[102IAHexpress]

I think the opportunity has come and gone for a large scale full size grocer in Downtown. Grocery delivery services are upending traditional grocery chains in urban neighborhoods. Here in Chicago, In an absolute shock, long time Chicago grocery chain Treasure Island Foods announced they are closing all their stores by next week. I think the best downtown can hope for is Peapod delivery (if it ever comes to Houston).

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelinemaynard/2018/09/30/in-a-surprise-chicagos-beloved-treasure-island-grocery-chain-says-it-will-close/#3a952f3d11bb

 

[j_cuevas713]

8 hours ago, 102IAHexpress said:

I think the opportunity has come and gone for a large scale full size grocer in Downtown. Grocery delivery services are upending traditional grocery chains in urban neighborhoods. Here in Chicago, In an absolute shock, long time Chicago grocery chain Treasure Island Foods announced they are closing all their stores by next week. I think the best downtown can hope for is Peapod delivery (if it ever comes to Houston).

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelinemaynard/2018/09/30/in-a-surprise-chicagos-beloved-treasure-island-grocery-chain-says-it-will-close/#3a952f3d11bb

 

I honestly don't see how that means a full service grocery store wouldn't do well. I mean grocery stores are always going to do well, especially when you have a name like HEB. Treasure Island Foods sounds a mix between a strip club and a can of mini weenies. 

[downtownian]

10 hours ago, 102IAHexpress said:

I think the opportunity has come and gone for a large scale full size grocer in Downtown. Grocery delivery services are upending traditional grocery chains in urban neighborhoods. Here in Chicago, In an absolute shock, long time Chicago grocery chain Treasure Island Foods announced they are closing all their stores by next week. I think the best downtown can hope for is Peapod delivery (if it ever comes to Houston).

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelinemaynard/2018/09/30/in-a-surprise-chicagos-beloved-treasure-island-grocery-chain-says-it-will-close/#3a952f3d11bb

 

 

There are plenty of other grocery delivery services beyond Peapod. I live downtown and use Instacart every week or do HEB curbside pickup. I imagine Whole Foods + Amazon will start doing an extremely efficient delivery service. Delivery is much more time efficient than grocery shopping - I have zero desire for a grocery store to be located downtown. 

[Chi-Char-Hou-Dal]

I kind of feel you @downtownian - i know there are constant calls for a target downtown but having just survived a quick trip to the one on Sawyer, I think the days of the big box target store's are numbered. Picking up on your comment, an Amazon GO store where there is no checkout. I will start the calls for one of these to pop up!

[Luminare]

46 minutes ago, downtownian said:

 

There are plenty of other grocery delivery services beyond Peapod. I live downtown and use Instacart every week or do HEB curbside pickup. I imagine Whole Foods + Amazon will start doing an extremely efficient delivery service. Delivery is much more time efficient than grocery shopping - I have zero desire for a grocery store to be located downtown. 

 

I was thinking about this the other day. I think if you are at the top class when it comes to big grocer chains then they can keep going with the bigger stores, but ones that are struggling to stick at the top will probably have to adjust their business model. One model that I think needs to be cornered quickly is the sorta hyper localized grocer. One that is maybe between 5,000-10,000 sqft. Not like an Aldi, but a small to medium size that still brings in a good market for the decent food brands that is perfect for those who only need to walk 5mins to grab a few groceries. There are almost zero stores like this in town. This a concept that is very much a void in the market right now that needs filled. This is evident in more urbanized cities. The same can be said with some of these big box retailers. Gone are the days where we need a lot of stores that cater to EVERYONE. Instead to compete these stores need to scale to the local level and be more intimate with the context and the locals that are there and get street traffic moving more.

[dbigtex56]

1 hour ago, Luminare said:

Instead to compete these stores need to scale to the local level and be more intimate with the context and the locals that are there and get street traffic moving more.

We have one :D.
Your point is well-taken. Imagine if the Main Street Market started carrying less cheap beer, cigarettes, junk food, etc. and more nut milk, scallions, kale, etc.
This is one case where gentrifying the locals out of the neighborhood would be a good thing. The question is, how much density is required to make it work? Are people willing to walk two blocks? three? five?

[downtownian]

2 hours ago, Chi-Char-Hou-Dal said:

I kind of feel you @downtownian - i know there are constant calls for a target downtown but having just survived a quick trip to the one on Sawyer, I think the days of the big box target store's are numbered. Picking up on your comment, an Amazon GO store where there is no checkout. I will start the calls for one of these to pop up!

 

Yeah, all physical retail is pretty much done for me. I value my time too much to deal with it. I bet 90%+ of my retail dollars go to Amazon, online grocery shopping, online clothing shopping, etc. The only time I go to a physical store is when I absolutely need something quickly and it is not available via a 2 hr Amazon delivery. 

[Luminare]

28 minutes ago, dbigtex56 said:

We have one :D.
Your point is well-taken. Imagine if the Main Street Market started carrying less cheap beer, cigarettes, junk food, etc. and more nut milk, scallions, kale, etc.
This is one case where gentrifying the locals out of the neighborhood would be a good thing. The question is, how much density is required to make it work? Are people willing to walk two blocks? three? five?

 

One...One! haha. A good coverage would be 1 or 2 major brand supermarkets per district and ideally a smaller local supermarket every 3-5 blocks. Some areas that haven't been revived yet not so much, but a lot of areas are getting there. You'd be surprised.

To your point about people walking. I've not seen so many people walking in this town ever. There are more people walking more than the past 30 or so years. This is also in the era of digital markets. Stores that offer a unique experience for a particular shopper that isn't like the others get the traffic they need.

 

EDIT: This is also what I see trending in interior design. If you look at the kinds of detailing and aesthetics that are going into new interiors for retail you will see exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to experience. A digital UI design doesn't hold a candle to a well designed and interesting physical space that can be explored at the leisure.

 

 

24 minutes ago, downtownian said:

 

Yeah, all physical retail is pretty much done for me. I value my time too much to deal with it. I bet 90%+ of my retail dollars go to Amazon, online grocery shopping, online clothing shopping, etc. The only time I go to a physical store is when I absolutely need something quickly and it is not available via a 2 hr Amazon delivery. 

 

When it comes to something you already want...yes digital is definitely the preferred option for me, but digital just doesn't come close when it comes to browsing retail or finding that oddity or something that you just would have never found with all the digital clutter. There will always be a place for physical retail. The thing that is dying is "one size fits all" model of retail. When ever single name brand retail store offers the same options in an era where there are more options and specialty options than ever before, of course people are going to go with digital for that. Retail that has seen renewed success? Ones that have further focused on particular styles, brands, and identities that take forever to find in the digital clutter.

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Luminare

[dbigtex56]

44 minutes ago, Luminare said:

 

One...One! haha. A good coverage would be 1 or 2 major brand supermarkets per district and ideally a smaller local supermarket every 3-5 blocks. Some areas that haven't been revived yet not so much, but a lot of areas are getting there. You'd be surprised.

To your point about people walking. I've not seen so many people walking in this town ever. There are more people walking more than the past 30 or so years

That would be good coverage. I'd love it, but the sort of store I assume we're talking about would deal mostly in perishables. Without a steady reliable client base there's going to be a lot of waste, which would be reflected in higher prices and/or lower profits. Or is this more the sort of establishment you have in mind? http://www.mercantilehouston.com/
Always nice to know that a $45 bottle of balsamic vinegar is just a few steps away if you're ever caught short.
As a confirmed pedestrian who moved to the Montrose 37 years ago, and currently lives on the edge of downtown/Midtown, I think you'll be surprised at my lack of surprise. There's been an uptick in the number of pedestrians in the past few years, but it's nowhere near what it was in the early 80's. [edit: this was meant to reflect the number of pedestrians in the Montrose, not downtown. I agree that downtown was a cemetery 30+ years ago. I worked the night shift at HL&P.)
We're getting there. I'm greatly encouraged to know that there are others who know the pleasure of walking simply for the sake of walking and hope entrepreneurs willing to assume the risk will reap the rewards by catering to this market.

Edited October 8, 2018 by dbigtex56
added info

[dbigtex56]

38 minutes ago, dbigtex56 said:

hope entrepreneurs willing to assume the risk will reap the rewards by catering to this market.

An example: Central City Co-Op has a farmer's market at Kindred (formerly Grace Lutheran) Church on Waugh Drive. An individual (or group) pays a subsidy to a farmer. In exchange, they receive regular shipments of fresh produce, according to whatever agreement they have about frequency and quantity. The types of produce will vary according to the season and whatever the farmer has promised to plant. 
So. If someone wanted to invest with some friends to rent a space close (walking distance) to the market (downtown) and use the existing network of farmers and co-ops, you're halfway there. 
There's your business model. It comes down to having the time, the money, and the balls to make it work. 

[H-Town Man]

If I had to guess at a potential grocery location downtown, I would think that Midway is working to gain control of the combined site of the Sakowitz garage and the convenience store next to it and put a grocer there, with apartments above. This would generate huge traffic for GreenStreet and increase the value of the whole development. Most retail projects would love to have a grocery anchor these days. It would be central to all downtown residents; only drawback is that it is a long walk from most residents so you would be relying on most of them to carry groceries on the rail line. Auto access right there is a non-starter.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by H-Town Man

[102IAHexpress]

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 9:28 AM, downtownian said:

 

There are plenty of other grocery delivery services beyond Peapod. I live downtown and use Instacart every week or do HEB curbside pickup. I imagine Whole Foods + Amazon will start doing an extremely efficient delivery service. Delivery is much more time efficient than grocery shopping - I have zero desire for a grocery store to be located downtown. 

 

Instacart is not a grocery store, it's a third party delivery service. Peapod, instead is a direct supplier of online groceries that directly delivers its products. But yeah I get what you're saying. Grocery delivery to your door is the future. One other benefit, besides the time savings, is buying in bulk. In car-free urban environments, you are hindered by only purchasing the groceries that you can hand-carry with you on your walk home. 

 

You mentioned curbside pickup. Something like that could work in downtown if HEB offered it. Up here Peapod offers a pickup service too. The pickup option is still not a grocery store but allows you to pick up your order at a small Peapod distribution center. If your order is too small and not eligible for delivery then this is a good alternative. I could see HEB having a small footprint pickup center (not a store) in downtown, where downtown residents could pick up their groceries.