H-Town Man Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, arche_757 said: I suppose one could look to Petco Park in San Diego as an example of the sort of neighborhood you could hope would build up around a MLB ballpark. I think once you have enough critical mass that it would be a fun neighborhood, developments would have cafes and bars built in. As for living there… I would think avoiding the traffic downtown wouldn’t be nearly as hard as avoiding it around NRG. Night games aren’t every day during the season, and even day games on the weekends wouldn’t be too bad if there was enough parking available that it’s spread out away from the immediate couple of streets around the park. I could also see the merit to building another city/sports authority owned garage with the possibility of another hotel and/or offices above nearby. [edit: you could nitpick anyplace to pieces. The theatre district doesn’t have any buildings with interior visibility from the outside. There is also traffic associated with that. I think living in a downtown you just accept there is a near constant expectation of activity.] Yes, traffic is better there than around NRG. But I am comparing living at MMP to other parts of downtown, which is the more pertinent decision if you are a developer or someone looking to live downtown. Right now if you could live near Main St./Market Square or Discovery Green and walk to MMP, this seems like the better deal. Petco is a little different since everything is full thanks to the waterfront so you're not living in an empty zone. Also, the point about interior visibility is that the attraction to living next to a ballpark in some cities is getting to watch the game from your balcony, but it wouldn't work at MMP since the roof is usually closed and the site across the street from left field has been developed. But you are right, it is impossible to see inside the theatre buildings. Edited July 19, 2021 by H-Town Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arche_757 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) The Petco Park neighborhood before/after. I feel that folks in virtually any city that do not live immediately adjacent to a ball park are likely not able to see the action very well if at all. [edit: of course we do not have the San Diego harbor front for our downtown…unfortunately! That said, 59/69 is nearly as effective in serving as a point of demarcation!] Edited July 19, 2021 by arche_757 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, arche_757 said: The Petco Park neighborhood before/after. I feel that folks in virtually any city that do not live immediately adjacent to a ball park are likely not able to see the action very well if at all. [edit: of course we do not have the San Diego harbor front for our downtown…unfortunately! That said, 59/69 is nearly as effective in serving as a point of demarcation!] I'm not sure what you're driving at. My point is that, right now, most people would probably rather live close to Main St./Market Square or Discovery Green and walk to Minute Maid than live next to Minute Maid. From the photo you post of Petco, the view into the park is gorgeous and has attracted highrises with that view as a selling point. With Minute Maid, views into the park aren't much of a factor for development outside because the roof is almost always closed. I'm not sure whether it is common for ballparks to offer views to outside buildings. Some ballparks do. But not Minute Maid. Why do you think more development has happened in other parts of downtown than around Minute Maid? I've attempted to offer a few reasons. What do you think? Edited July 20, 2021 by H-Town Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) . Edited July 20, 2021 by H-Town Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arche_757 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 Not to continue arguing for the sake of arguing… Your point (as I see it) is that any ballpark isn’t a decent catalyst for development because of traffic, noise etc. I just posted a picture of a vibrant (looking) neighborhood next to a ballpark. Now, San Diego had development prior to Petco Park, yet much of the neighborhood that grew around the ballpark there was vastly underdeveloped. This is despite the great views, and no doubt strong zoning/planning ordinances to push the very type of development that had yet to occur around Petco. That is all. Why has it taken longer? I’d guess: adjacent land prices too high, too many other neighborhoods in town where that sort of development is easier, oil price recessions…etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, arche_757 said: Not to continue arguing for the sake of arguing… Your point (as I see it) is that any ballpark isn’t a decent catalyst for development because of traffic, noise etc. I just posted a picture of a vibrant (looking) neighborhood next to a ballpark. Now, San Diego had development prior to Petco Park, yet much of the neighborhood that grew around the ballpark there was vastly underdeveloped. This is despite the great views, and no doubt strong zoning/planning ordinances to push the very type of development that had yet to occur around Petco. That is all. Why has it taken longer? I’d guess: adjacent land prices too high, too many other neighborhoods in town where that sort of development is easier, oil price recessions…etc. No, my point was that Minute Maid Park hadn't been a good catalyst for development, because of a combination of those factors and the fact that there are better areas of downtown that lack some of those drawbacks. Petco has enviable development and shows that factors such as parking and dead days can be overcome, but Petco is not a good comparison because it offers great views to nearby highrises (almost as nice a visual amenity as Discovery Green) and doesn't have a roof that closes over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arche_757 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 I seem to have misinterpreted your reasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 Interesting tidbit from this week's City Council agenda regarding the capital improvement plan for the MAIN STREET/MARKET SQUARE REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY: The FY23 – FY27 CIP Budget totals $64,631,000 and includes economic development program provisions for office-to-residential conversion plan and blight removal targeting 901 Main, 801 Jefferson, and 1111 Main; San Jacinto Street reconstruction to connect to Hardy Yards; the installation of enhanced pedestrian lighting through key walkable corridors Downtown; mobility connections to the Near Northside; and infrastructure and improvements in the Warehouse District. 5 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookey23 Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) I'm glad there is money going into the Warehouse District. It has the potential to be a really cool little walkable pocket of downtown Houston, but clearly needs some help. Once those new apartments are done, I could see that 6 block stretch becoming a fun little bar and restaurant area. Is there a presentation or anything available online? Edited January 30, 2023 by bookey23 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) Yikes so the city is going to demo 901 Main!? That sucks. I was really hoping that building was salvageable. I wish the blight removal applied to that other convenience store on Main St that has paneling covering a beautiful façade. It would be great for the city to work with the owner to help finance the restoration of that property. Edited January 30, 2023 by j_cuevas713 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookey23 Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 Any clue what 801 Jefferson would mean? Is that the odd structure next to the old Days Inn at 801 St Joseph Parkway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avossos Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 1 hour ago, j_cuevas713 said: Yikes so the city is going to demo 901 Main!? That sucks. I was really hoping that building was salvageable. I wish the blight removal applied to that other convenience store on Main St that has paneling covering a beautiful façade. It would be great for the city to work with the owner to help finance the restoration of that property. blight removal doesn't necessarily mean demolition... I would wait to hear "demo" before grieving. I do hope it is saved. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChannelTwoNews Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 1 hour ago, bookey23 said: Any clue what 801 Jefferson would mean? Is that the odd structure next to the old Days Inn at 801 St Joseph Parkway? That part of that block facing Jefferson with the odd numbers would belong to the YMCA parking garage. Is the odd structure that you mean the old Wells Fargo Motor Bank? The address for that was 1802 Travis. I'd be interested in hearing what "office-to-residential conversion plan and blight removal" would be proposed for 1111 Main. I know there had been ideas to convert it into something other than a garage in the past that didn't go much of anywhere. I seem to recall one of the previous "boom" periods had a tower considered for or atop the existing structure - but not necessarily tied to any concrete proposal from a developer. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EspersonBuildings Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 "bookey23", "ChannelTwoNews" is correct that you are probably referring to the old Wells Fargo Motor Bank. I'm guessing they mean this structure and not The YMCA parking garage. But what do I know? 😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyt36 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Great intel, Houston19514 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindesky Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 "Council members will vote on a new budget for the Main Street/Market Square TIRZ, also known as TIRZ 3, for fiscal year 2023-24 and a capital improvement plan covering 2023-27. The TIRZ's total budget for the CIP is $64.6 million with funds set aside for various office-to-residential projects, including at 901 Main St., Houston; 801 Jefferson St., Houston; and 1111 Main St., Houston." According to the agenda items, there will be $25.5 million set aside for FY 2023-24. Of that, $17.7 million will be allotted for costs of construction on Trebly Park and pedestrian improvements to the Montrose Bridge over Allen Parkway, among other projects. https://communityimpact.com/houston/heights-river-oaks-montrose/government/2023/01/30/houston-city-council-to-vote-on-budgets-for-main-streetmarket-square-upper-kirby-southwest-houston-tirzs/ 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 22 hours ago, Avossos said: blight removal doesn't necessarily mean demolition... I would wait to hear "demo" before grieving. I do hope it is saved. I think you're right! Office to residential conversions! 😮 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyt36 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) Well one can only assume (hope?) the 901 Main St would be restored to the original exterior--look at those windows! Would make a unique place to live in. Just will need lots of noise insulation. Image courtesy of @Urbannizer from this thread: Edited February 1, 2023 by mattyt36 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, mattyt36 said: Well one can only assume (hope?) the 901 Main St would be restored to the original exterior--look at those windows! Would make a unique place to live in. Just will need lots of noise insulation. Image courtesy of @Urbannizer from this thread: This would be a huge save. Based off all the buildings that have been saved over the past decade, I think it's safe to assume it will be restored. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyt36 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, j_cuevas713 said: This would be a huge save. Based off all the buildings that have been saved over the past decade, I think it's safe to assume it will be restored. As you said, it’s all in the use of the word “conversion”—you don’t tear down something you’re going to “convert.” Seems pretty clear they limited themselves from going back to the Downtown Living Initiative approach for new construction and are focusing now only on conversion. Perhaps a refreshed, less “rich” DLI could be launched at some point in the near future, as one would think it shouldn’t cost as much to entice additional development now that the area is much more “proven” for residential development. Concepts for the Sakowitz conversion will definitely be interesting to see. Hopefully we are about to start a third wave of residential construction after the 1990s Rice/loft conversion, then the DLI, now this. 🤞 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, mattyt36 said: As you said, it’s all in the use of the word “conversion”—you don’t tear down something you’re going to “convert.” Seems pretty clear they limited themselves from going back to the Downtown Living Initiative approach for new construction and are focusing now only on conversion. Perhaps a refreshed, less “rich” DLI could be launched at some point in the near future, as one would think it shouldn’t cost as much to entice additional development now that the area is much more “proven” for residential development. Concepts for the Sakowitz conversion will definitely be interesting to see. Hopefully we are about to start a third wave of residential construction after the 1990s Rice/loft conversion, then the DLI, now this. 🤞 Exactly, that's why I'm crossing my fingers about this one. And the Sakowitz building becoming residential would be awesome. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindesky Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindesky Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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