ExxonMobil Spring Campus

[RedScare]

http://www.chron.com...ape-3489126.php

the exxon campus will come online slowly. the grand parkway segments that will relieve congestion should be well on their way by the time exxon mobil is fully operational. the connection from holzworth to grogan's mill requires a bridge over spring creek.

I wouldn't call ramping up from 0 employees to 10,000 between the years 2014 and 2015 coming online slowly, at least as far as congestion mitigation is concerned. Sure, dropping 10,000 additional commuters on one intersection all at once would be chaos, but adding 500 to 1,000 at a time every month for a year to 18 months would simply create orderly congestion. At the end of 2015, there will still be 10,000 additional vehicles trying to enter and leave the most bottlenecked portion of I-45, that portion on either side of the Hardy Toll Road connector.

Your suggestion that work will proceed quickly to build the Grand Parkway connector is likely true. It may or may not be online by the time ExxonMobil is fully operational (TxDOT claims it will be built by 2015), but the question is how an additional highway interchange in the middle of the area's most bottlenecked location will HELP the situation. Numerous traffic studies have found that traffic entering and leaving a freeway is the biggest cause of congestion. It is worse when the traffic wishing to enter the freeway must cross through that traffic wishing to exit, causing everyone to slow down while changing lanes. This can be easily seen at the I-45/Hardy Road interchange. Traffic heading north from Hardy to I-45 must change lanes to the left while I-45 traffic wishing to exit Rayford-Sawdust must change lanes to the right. Similarly, southbound I-45 traffic wishing to enter the Hardy must cross entering traffic from Rayford-Sawdust. The results can be seen on TranStar's speed chart.

http://traffic.houst...peedcharts.aspx

Traffic during rush hour at this location drops to an average speed of 30 mph, and sometimes into the 20s due to this merging problem.

Now, add another major highway interchange to I-45 directly south of the Hardy interchange. This will be another congestion generator, in that, thousands of vehicles that previously did not exist will be entering and leaving I-45 at this location. There will also be a couple of additional congested on/off ramps for employees at ExxonMobil that are not currently heavily used. What will that do to freeway speeds that already dip to 25-30 mph at this location?

Now, admittedly, people coming from the west will quickly learn to exit Grand Parkway prior to I-45, and enter XOM from Spring Stuebner in order to avoid I-45 congestion. However, residents that previously did not use Spring Stuebner will undoubtedly begin to use Grand Parkway to get to I-45. And worse, Kingwood and other eastern residents who currently cannot access I-45 will suddenly find a convenient access, adding thousands more vehicles to I-45. Everyone who currently must use 242 to get from Kingwood to the Woodlands, plus everyone heading to Dallas from Kingwood will now take the Grand Parkway to get to I-45. If the Grand Parkway is as needed as the planners claim, there will be tens of thousands of additional vehicles being dumped onto I-45 at this already congested area daily.

There is precious little road infrastructure, planned or existing, to relieve this projected traffic. Much of the increased traffic will be forced onto I-45...even for a short distance...due to the dearth of north/south arteries over Spring Creek. I don't see much mitigation planned.

Edited June 9, 2012 by RedScare

[Mister X]

The posts seem to be getting longer on here.

[jgriff]

The posts seem to be getting longer on here.

And far more boring. I find myself visiting here less and less.

[Pleak]

Meanwhile back to the construction.....

Nancy Sarnoff posted some interesting numbers over the weekend from an "unnamed source". Still makes for interesting speculation.

http://www.chron.com/business/sarnoff/article/Sarnoff-Exxon-Mobil-project-s-value-could-3621219.php

$1.2 billion in costs broken down by:

"1 $700 million for 3.5 million square feet worth of buildings, including their interior finishes.

1 $150 million for parking garages.

1 $100 million for site development.

1 $200 million for furniture, fixtures and equipment.

1 $75 million for architecture, engineering and related fees."

[lockmat]

When it's built out in as many as 20 years, Springwoods Village is expected to have 5,000 homes - including apartments - of all types.

10,000 Exxon employees plus 5,000 new home owners? Of course some might live in SWV, but most probably won't, I'm guessing.

[WestGrayGuy]

Exxon has owned this land for decades. This is not a new purchase.

[TheNiche]

The land was purchased from Coventry Development Corporation, which offices out of New York City. I know that Exxon certainly has had previous dealings with that company, but was under the impression that this was an arm's length sale.

[swtsig]

The land was purchased from Coventry Development Corporation, which offices out of New York City. I know that Exxon certainly has had previous dealings with that company, but was under the impression that this was an arm's length sale.

i was under the same impression.

[Trae]

10,000 Exxon employees plus 5,000 new home owners? Of course some might live in SWV, but most probably won't, I'm guessing.

I'm sure people who don't work for Exxon will buy in there. Maybe Exxon won't allow it though.

[LTAWACS]

You've got to be kidding. Who in their right mind would live all the way up there???

[Houston19514]

Meanwhile back to the construction.....

Nancy Sarnoff posted some interesting numbers over the weekend from an "unnamed source". Still makes for interesting speculation.

http://www.chron.com...uld-3621219.php

$1.2 billion in costs broken down by:

"1 $700 million for 3.5 million square feet worth of buildings, including their interior finishes.

1 $150 million for parking garages.

1 $100 million for site development.

1 $200 million for furniture, fixtures and equipment.

1 $75 million for architecture, engineering and related fees."

This is an awesome development, with amazing architecture and will be beautiful when completed. The relocations from Virginia and elsewhere are obviously great news for Houston (and I still think the corporate HQ will end up on this campus as well).

But, still, every time I read about it I get a little sick to my stomach thinking about they could have done on the vacant blocks surrounding their current downtown tower. Building structures containing about 2.5 million square feet of space added to the existing approx. 1 million square feet of space in the current tower... Could have added 2 or 3 major skyscrapers to our downtown. :-(

[Pleak]

What do you think drove the decision? Cost? Privacy of a closed campus? The current wave of corporate thinking?

[jgriff]

What do you think drove the decision? Cost? Privacy of a closed campus? The current wave of corporate thinking?

I wonder the same thing. I live between Beltway 8 and 610 so I'm not inner loop and not quite the suburbs either. I usually find the people who think everything and everyone should be inside the loop or downtown are really annoying. In this case though if I worked for ExxonMobil I would rather be downtown. Downtown is a great place to work. You can get there via bus from everywhere. It's a great place to work if you live in the Woodlands or Sugarland.

I guess cost and privacy may be it. I've worked on many ExxonMobil projects. I've also worked downtown. They really do take corporate espionage seriously. There are so many related business in Houston and especially downtown. Some companies I've worked for have poilices of not talking about work at lunch in a public place. You never know who is sitting next to you. We also have to put all documents in locked trash bins that are sent to be shredded. Sometimes they send people out to inspect your desk to make sure you've left no confidential documents out. This is inside an office building where you have to show your badge to get in and swipe it again to get onto the project floor.

Edited June 12, 2012 by jgriff

[Jesse]

0 to 10,000 employees? Wait a second. Is everyone forgetting the few thousand employees already in Greenspoint? They have employees in at least 8 buildings there already. The 9 miles between Greenspoint and the new campus is not going to make everyone sell their house and move - a vast majority already live in The Woodlands, so you're looking at a net change of zero people coming out of the 'burbs and onto I-45. A majority of the rest live inside the loop, and they're looking at an added 7-10 minutes on the highway. Since so few people are coming Northbound already (reverse commute), you're still not looking at any net influx into the Woodlands (they'll all exit at the new campus, or even take Hardy up and just get off from there). Right now there isn't any slowdown on I-45 going Northbound until you get to the Woodlands flyover. There is zero traffic backup from XOM employees on the Greenspoint exit ramps at any time of day, and those ramps are far smaller than the ones near the campus.

Now, let's talk about the downtown office and the research center (Greenway plaza):

A surprisingly large amount of people commute from the Woodlands to the downtown building and Greenway. Maybe a few additional cars coming out of the Woodlands to the new campus, since some of those people take the HOV bus currently. Same with the research center. People who live inside the loop and work there will now commute Northbound, so yes, a little bit of added traffic getting off I-45 at the new campus.

People who work at the energy corridor building out I-10 already live out there, so they'll either be coming North, or moving to the Woodlands or Spring Creek. Speaking of Spring Creek - isn't that development going to be West of I-45, next to the campus? So those people won't be on I-45, they'll enter the campus through one of the 4+ entrances.

My point here is that for the employees already in Houston, very very few will be moving, and even few will be dramatically changing their commutes (most will be getting shorter, in fact). The company is very actively looking at carpool/bus/vanpool options for higher employee density neighborhoods, so that should help the congestion a bit too.

The larger issue is the ~2000 employees coming from other cities (Fairfax, Baytown, etc). Who knows where they'll live - I'm guessing the Woodlands and Spring Creek area. They will have a traffic impact, though as Redscare said, it's not like they're all going to appear overnight.

One more note - XOM employees generally get to work between 6am and 8:30am (some even earlier). So you're looking at 10,000 people (eventually) spread out over 2.5+ hours, across multiple entrances, from multiple directions. To think that XOM didn't plan for this is to not understand how XOM approaches projects.

I wouldn't call ramping up from 0 employees to 10,000 between the years 2014 and 2015 coming online slowly, at least as far as congestion mitigation is concerned. Sure, dropping 10,000 additional commuters on one intersection all at once would be chaos, but adding 500 to 1,000 at a time every month for a year to 18 months would simply create orderly congestion. At the end of 2015, there will still be 10,000 additional vehicles trying to enter and leave the most bottlenecked portion of I-45, that portion on either side of the Hardy Toll Road connector.

...

etc etc etc

....

There is precious little road infrastructure, planned or existing, to relieve this projected traffic. Much of the increased traffic will be forced onto I-45...even for a short distance...due to the dearth of north/south arteries over Spring Creek. I don't see much mitigation planned.

[bachanon]

for what it's worth:

05.03.2012

Txdot publishes grand parkway request for proposals on segments F1, f2 and g

A final Request for proposals for Segments F1, F2, and G were published by TxDOT on May 3, 2012. Five teams have been shortlisted on the design/build project.

Timeline for Segments F1, F2, and G

Proposals are due August, 2012

Conditional Contract Award is set for September, 2012

A TxDOT Bond Sale is scheduled for October, 2012

Contract signing is scheduled for December, 2012

Construction begins January, 2012

Open to traffic July, 2015

Request for Proposals (docs and many links to more info):

http://www.gpprocure....com/gprfp.aspx

Toll Configuration (traffic and revenue):

http://www.gpprocure...e132803033.aspx

things will get worse before whatever relief grand parkway will provide is on line. ditto jesse's sentiment that many will not be new to the area/perhaps already here; however, the area is growing substantially without exxon mobil. the traffic will not be pretty. (thanks to the poster who posted the above information in the grand parkway thread! i thought it relevant here too.)

[RedScare]

0 to 10,000 employees? Wait a second. Is everyone forgetting the few thousand employees already in Greenspoint? They have employees in at least 8 buildings there already. The 9 miles between Greenspoint and the new campus is not going to make everyone sell their house and move...

While I note your well written response, my concern is not that 10,000 people will move to the Woodlands, but that 10,000 will be exiting at this location that is already very congested at rush hour. That section of I-45 already slows to speeds as slow as I-45 and Beltway 8, and that is before ExxonMobil or the Grand Parkway traffic have arrived. And, Greenspoint has much better access than the new campus. Greenspoint is accessible by 45, BW8, Hardy Toll Road, and several arterial streets. The new campus will have 45 and the GP, but the all important arterial streets have not been developed, and Spring Creek prevents much of it.

As for XOM's preparedness, it is well known. They run the company with a military like precision. But, while I expect the campus to be as well planned as one could imagine, XOM has no control over existing traffic on I-45. Staggering work schedules should help immensely with congestion at the entrance to the campus, however, and in time, people will adjust to the new reality. But, as bachanan stated, it won't be pretty, especially at the beginning.

[SkylineView]

I'm not sure this is any different than anywhere else in Houston. As stated, they already have thousands at Greenspoint, and many live north of town. If anything it will cut traffic going further south (until the buildings fill back up). I view this like another Greenway Plaza. In fact, the "trivia" page on Greenway's webpage says they have 13,000 parking spaces, so 10k employees wouldn't be too far off. It's a rush from 8-9 and 5-6, but otherwise everyone meanders in and out orderly.

Edited June 13, 2012 by SkylineView

[Jesse]

Actually with 13,000 spaces I'd wager there are >13,000 employees. Or at least the capacity for such. Building >1 spot per person is purely wasteful (nobody can drive 2 cars at a time, obviously), but there are always people out of the office on vacation, sick, travelling, in training, carpooling (ie: spouses and neighbors), riding a motorcycle, handicapped parkers, being dropped off by a spouse/neighbor, etc.

I'm not sure this is any different than anywhere else in Houston. As stated, they already have thousands at Greenspoint, and many live north of town. If anything it will cut traffic going further south (until the buildings fill back up). I view this like another Greenway Plaza. In fact, the "trivia" page on Greenway's webpage says they have 13,000 parking spaces, so 10k employees wouldn't be too far off. It's a rush from 8-9 and 5-6, but otherwise everyone meanders in and out orderly.

[Jesse]

Well, kinda. Greenspoint is accessable through all of those roads, but for the ExxonMobil buildings, you're looking at a few hundred exiting I-45 from Rankin Road, and the rest exiting Greens Road (90% East, 10% West)

Beltway 8 drivers only exit Greenspoint Drive - there are no XOM buildings on Imperial Valley or East of there. Hardy Toll Road drivers have to exit onto BW8, and then again can only exit onto Greenspoint Drive

The new campus will have I-45, Grand Parkway, and that last exit off Hardy (I forget the name). Plus a likely entrance on the West side of the campus from the new neighborhood.

I agree with you though... it won't be pretty, at least at first. I for one am very interested to see what kind of car/van/bus pooling options they provide, especially to inner-loopers. I think the company recognizes that anytime you bring that many people together in one spot, you're very likely to have traffic issues

And, Greenspoint has much better access than the new campus. Greenspoint is accessible by 45, BW8, Hardy Toll Road, and several arterial streets. The new campus will have 45 and the GP, but the all important arterial streets have not been developed, and Spring Creek prevents much of it.

[woolie]

(nobody can drive 2 cars at a time, obviously)

[Jesse]

was this not obvious?

[RedScare]

The new campus will have I-45, Grand Parkway, and that last exit off Hardy (I forget the name). Plus a likely entrance on the West side of the campus from the new neighborhood.

I agree with you though... it won't be pretty, at least at first. I for one am very interested to see what kind of car/van/bus pooling options they provide, especially to inner-loopers. I think the company recognizes that anytime you bring that many people together in one spot, you're very likely to have traffic issues

The Hardy Toll Road commuters would likely exit at Spring Crossing Blvd. This also happens to be the exit northbound I-45 commuters would take, as well as southbound I-45 commuters. That's going to be one busy intersection.

Now, it is possible that some northbound I-45 commuters will take Spring Stuebner or the Grand Parkway westbound, in order to come in the southern entrance, but this will also be the entrance for all of those commuters from the back of the Woodlands, as well as those from northwestern and western Harris County. At least Greenway Plaza is an urbanized area, which allows traffic to come in from several arterial streets, which spreads out the congestion.

My own selfish gripe is that I will be driving southbound through this mess most afternoons. It is already extremely congested right there at the toll road. It won't take much to really shut it down. I don't particularly care whether the Woodlands approaches gridlock, as I do not live there, and have no dog in their hunt. I care a LOT whether the bottleneck at the Hardy Toll Road is exacerbated by the Grand Parkway (and XOM) as the Beltway 8 interchange does to I-45 further down the road.

[swtsig]

wow.... 1+ page on nothing but traffic concerns. jesus, you people must have a lot of free time.

[lockmat]

wow.... 1+ page on nothing but traffic concerns. jesus, you people must have a lot of free time.

Traffic is a major part of people's lives, in terms of quantity and quality. HAIF is a hobby for people, too.

[Hugh Stone]

Reading posts in this thread has started to become the online equivalent of sitting in a traffic jam. It's just as exciting. But eventually, traffic will start moving again and we will arrive at our destination.

[RedScare]

wow.... 1+ page on nothing but traffic concerns. jesus, you people must have a lot of free time.

Boy, you sure added to the dialogue. How about we go back to discussing how many cranes we can see above the tree line?

[wxman]

I just flew back into Houston for a week-long visit with the 'rents and it is amazing how many cranes dot the skyline here in The Woodlands. Between Anadarko, Waterway 3 and Exxon, there are at least 20 cranes in the air. It's VERY impressive. I can only imagine what people driving in from out of town on I45 must think when they pass through.

[RedScare]

They probably think the traffic sucks.

[LTAWACS]

They're probably lost.

[lockmat]

traveling south on 45 this morning I could see the top of a building. we'll see if it's the only one or there's more.