Kinder High School For The Performing And Visual Arts At 790 Austin St.

[UtterlyUrban]

I sure as heck hope that the city planners have put one and one together and figured out that they are going to need to pass some kind of ordinance/variance to allow liquor sales / bars downtown once this highschool is built. Otherwise, they can kiss their convention dreams and residential dreams goodbye.

Does anyone know if the folks at City Hall have figured this one out yet?

[bachanon]

i think the students, families, and alumni of hspva are very proud of the name and would not be surprised if all were consulted during the design process. although "hspva" makes me think "husqvarna" lawn equipment, i have a good feeling about this building.

 

most renderings i see, i expect the building to look less than; i think this one may turn out to look better than the rendering.  fingers crossed.  that said, if it looks worse than the rendering, it will be one ugly building.

[j_cuevas713]

The overall design isn't bad, but there are some elements that could be adjusted or eliminated all together. I'm in design, and after a project, whenever we go back and look at what we just finished, say the next day, we usually find flaws that in the moment we thought were brilliant. It's all part of the creative process, and I'm sure these designs will be adjusted along the way.

[Luminare]

There are some big moves and massing in this that I actually really really like. It is definitely a more contemporary design than what many people in houston are used too This design is going to need some more work though. It still looks very unresolved and a little massive sitting on that site. Also not liking the exaggerated HSPVA on the ground or the one being used as a shading device -.-

 

My younger sister actually went to school at HSPVA I'll have to show her this and gauge her opinion on this.

 

Finally, don't even get me started on the beige brick >.< After being at A&M for 4 years I swore that I will never, during my whole architectural profession, put beige into or onto my buildings like this!

Edited June 16, 2014 by Luminare

[Subdude]

An incoherent mess.  This is seriously the best they could come up with?

[arche_757]

Not a fan of this product being played out for us.  But then the existing one is ugly as well.

 

For a school dedicated to the arts, and firm as big and broad as Gensler - this should be much better.

[houstontexasjack]

The rendering doesn't indicate a building that will age very well. Its signature feature is big capital letters in a banal typeface. This could be so much more.

[Luminare]

if anyone has access to the floor plans or interior images that would be good. Honestly lets not bash it too much. It isn't horrible just not really pushing the envelope. I mean its way better than their current building and from the article it seems that this current design is something that the client likes (of course anything would be better than where they are at right now >.> ). I know I'm essentially saying 'lets be positive' or 'lets find the positives in this' , but really whatever gets built there is going to be better than a surface parking lot. I think we should start looking at this as 'will I be able to live with this or driving by this for the next 30 years'. If the answer is yes then ok lets move on and hope this gets built. If you think its an damnation of mankind then really discuss why. Other than that lets just be glad that this idea has gotten this far. 10 years ago putting a school like this in downtown would have been insane!

[Subdude]

if anyone has access to the floor plans or interior images that would be good. Honestly lets not bash it too much. It isn't horrible just not really pushing the envelope. I mean its way better than their current building and from the article it seems that this current design is something that the client likes (of course anything would be better than where they are at right now >.> ). I know I'm essentially saying 'lets be positive' or 'lets find the positives in this' , but really whatever gets built there is going to be better than a surface parking lot. I think we should start looking at this as 'will I be able to live with this or driving by this for the next 30 years'. If the answer is yes then ok lets move on and hope this gets built. If you think its an damnation of mankind then really discuss why. Other than that lets just be glad that this idea has gotten this far. 10 years ago putting a school like this in downtown would have been insane!

 

I'm sorry, but it is pretty horrible. And whether the client likes it, or whether it beats the current design, or that it replaces a surface lot, do nothing to make it a good design.  The client loved the Civic Courts building design, but it's still trite garbage.

 

Since this is a discussion board about architecture and development, I've never bought into the "we should just all appreciate whatever gets thrown up" argument.  

 

I discussed why I think it is a damnation of mankind a few posts up.  It is an incoherent mess.

[arche_757]

Here, Here!

 

A "school for the performing arts" shouldn't ever be "just ok" or "better than an asphalt parking lot"

 

I'm not saying this product is trash - very much like Subdude mentioned, this thing (and it is a thing) is an incoherent mess.  A "hodge-podge" of assembled rectangular forms and oversized letters incorporated into structural components and shade canopies makes a building, but not a great one.  Frankly I am not surpirsed.

 

I'm not going to bash the architect, Gensler produces nice work.  They're hands were tied here no doubt, as they client probably got a tad too involved in the architecture of this building.

 

At least we will have Holl's MFA addition!  Perhaps he can invigorate our overly corporate influenced architecture in town?

Edited June 16, 2014 by arche_757

[Houston19514]

if anyone has access to the floor plans or interior images that would be good.

 

There are some floor plans in this slide show.

[Luminare]

I'm sorry, but it is pretty horrible. And whether the client likes it, or whether it beats the current design, or that it replaces a surface lot, do nothing to make it a good design.  The client loved the Civic Courts building design, but it's still trite garbage.

 

Since this is a discussion board about architecture and development, I've never bought into the "we should just all appreciate whatever gets thrown up" argument.  

 

I discussed why I think it is a damnation of mankind a few posts up.  It is an incoherent mess.

 

AGAIN! I don't think its fantastic either, but just looking at it from another perspective

 

I also agree with Arch in that it's clear that the client had a VERY specific vision for this school even if it is very drab. The fate of this one was sealed long ago and I'm sure Gensler did all it could to make something out of nothing. I just had a situation with a project I'm working on for a school as well. When a client gets so fixated onto a certain 'look' that they have attached to their minds then they are really going to do everything they can to keep it. My guess.....it's also going to have the clients name on it Their is definitely politics at play here as well. When a client (especially with schools) is going to get a name on the building then of course they are going to put all their hands all over it!

Edited June 16, 2014 by Luminare

[mollusk]

If this were exposed concrete rather than beige brick, would it be Brutalist? 

[Houston19514]

AGAIN! I don't think its fantastic either, but just looking at it from another perspective

 

I also agree with Arch in that it's clear that the client had a VERY specific vision for this school even if it is very drab. The fate of this one was sealed long ago and I'm sure Gensler did all it could to make something out of nothing. I just had a situation with a project I'm working on for a school as well. When a client gets so fixated onto a certain 'look' that they have attached to their minds then they are really going to do everything they can to keep it. My guess.....it's also going to have the clients name on it Their is definitely politics at play here as well. When a client (especially with schools) is going to get a name on the building then of course they are going to put all their hands all over it!

 

Why do we think the client had a very specific vision for what this school should look like?

 

[arche_757]

Why do we think the client had a very specific vision for what this school should look like?

 

 

Who knows if they had a specific vision?  They did have required spaces and special uses for the building.  I feel like (my opinion) the architecture was molded a bit by the clients more so than the designer may have liked?  Or the budget just didn't allow for everything the architects wanted to do (most likely), and they scrambled together as many elements as possible.

 

Plus, this is a school - schools seldom ever have the money needed to really churn out a fantastic design.

 

Architecture is a thankless profession.

Edited June 16, 2014 by arche_757

[Luminare]

Because unless the designer of this building was flippin high as hell lol I don't think this would have been real design. Maybe a conceptual idea, but not the real thing. I love big media graphics on buildings like this, but this isn't clever at all and is very literal. I don't even think some overachieving intern would have produced this also.

 

As for why I think it was the client who envisioned the design, because it is soooooo conceptual. A client only really has a building they are imagining at a very conceptual level and it's up to the architect to mold and shape that vision into something that is unique, creative, proportioned correctly, and practical. The super large "structural" lettering alone wouldn't have ever gotten past the first iteration or at least the first option review. It probably would have been something to be sort of an exaggeration to sort of gauge where the client is looking to go with the project and be done with it. Obviously the client did not care for the process, thought their vision was picture perfect, thought the letter was very innovative and cool and wanted that in there. Beige for the longest time has been seen as a color of academic buildings (especially in texas) and the client probably liked that on the building. Client wanted lots and lots of glass most likely especially in the lobby for the auditorium and so their you go its there.

 

All I'm saying is that some of the design choices in this are not very sophisticated and there are areas that would have refined further along in the design process.

 

Now let's not completely write off the large lettering. In different situations it would have been a cool feature. If this was some kind of children's school maybe a younger age magnet school or even if this was at the childrens museum or childrens hospital then I can see it because it's such a huge exaggeration. Maybe if this was to more of an art statement in an art district or cultural district, but it just seems so out of place here. Not to mention the font is bland and the proportions of those letters are enormous! The architect also copied some elements that I have recently seen on academic buildings on archdaily. While it isn't criminal for architects to copy others it's pretty clear what are some of the inspirations for this project and maybe the client already had a few favorites of his/her own.

 

Now of course none of us know the client or architect and eithers intentions, but this building simply looks more like the first month into a design rather than 3-4 months later and about to go into CD work. Just my analysis/opinion.

[Houston19514]

^  I think it's fair to note that the rendering being discussed here is 2 1/2 months old.  Do we know it is anything more than a conceptual rendering?  We do know that "Preparation of more detailed Schematic Design Phase drawings and documents are underway."

 

I found some more renderings and floor plans.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Houston19514

[Luminare]

^  I think it's fair to note that the rendering being discussed here is 2 1/2 months old.  Do we know it is anything more than a conceptual rendering?  We do know that "Preparation of more detailed Schematic Design Phase drawings and documents are underway."

 

Whoa Whoa Whoa wait??? Ok lets just get this out of the way lol Is that correctly quoted??? Because if this is "Schematic Design" then we still have a LONGGGGG way to go here xD

 

Like...this building might not look the same a couple months from now. If they are at the tail end of SD then that means that there is still lots and lots of room for this to change. If they mean they are at the end of Design Development "DD" then it's to late and they are about to begin Construction Documents. Big BIG difference so either whoever quoted that has no idea what the architecture nomenclature is or we might be in for one heck of a design ride if this still isn't even in the actual Design Document phase yet >.>

 

EDIT: after looking at those floor plans this is actually a very well assembled building! My last project in architecture school was to design a black box theater and if you haven't designed one then you have NO idea the hell it is to program one of these things lol. It looks like they did a really good job of it though. From the "renderings" though it looks like this is still very basic. I don't even see material choices or any kind of style instead the building and the Exterior is just a "skin" on the building. Because of these I think we are still long ways away from seeing "real" look of this building. Just my hypothesis.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Luminare

[Houston19514]

Whoa Whoa Whoa wait??? Ok lets just get this out of the way lol Is that correctly quoted??? Because if this is "Schematic Design" then we still have a LONGGGGG way to go here xD

 

Like...this building might not look the same a couple months from now. If they are at the tail end of SD then that means that there is still lots and lots of room for this to change. If they mean they are at the end of Design Development "DD" then it's to late and they are about to begin Construction Documents. Big BIG difference so either whoever quoted that has no idea what the architecture nomenclature is or we might be in for one heck of a design ride if this still isn't even in the actual Design Document phase yet >.>

 

I can only tell you that was a direct copy and paste from HISD's website giving the project status for this building. 

 

[arche_757]

Looks the same.  Doubt the design - overall feel of the design - will change all that much.  They've gone public with a lot of images, and had meetings with HISD people and the community at large with these renderings.  Things can be tweeked but doubtful they change too much.  Only "value engineering" will drastically change the scope and scale of the design.

 

Looking at the plans - this building is mixing 100 ideas and concepts into one space.  That is a challenge for any architect.

[Luminare]

Looks the same.  Doubt the design - overall feel of the design - will change all that much.  They've gone public with a lot of images, and had meetings with HISD people and the community at large with these renderings.  Things can be tweeked but doubtful they change too much.  Only "value engineering" will drastically change the scope and scale of the design.

 

Looking at the plans - this building is mixing 100 ideas and concepts into one space.  That is a challenge for any architect.

 

Initially those were my thoughts as well and from seeing the schedule it does look like this is very much locked down in terms of design. I was just very fishy at what that one quote was from saying that they are moving out of "Schematic Design". That was a bit confusing. We are also looking at stuff that was put out 3 months ago!

 

I agree with you unless there is serious intervention on the part of contractors during the bidding process then this design isn't going anywhere then  (pretty sure those letters will be listed as an alternate xD)

 

At the end of the day you have to pat the architect/designer on the back for doing what he was paid for and that was giving the client 'exactly' what they asked for (no matter how much he/she probably wanted to change it). That's an architects job. We can only do so much or go as far as the client will let us at the end of the day

 

Finally, designing an auditorium/assembly space is always a tremendous challenge so I applaud the designer for at least walking out sane after all this lol.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Luminare

[Mab]

Here a new file with renderings of the new school

 

http://www.houstonisd.org/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=150743&dataid=103706&FileName=140327HSPVA_COMMUNITYMEETING.pdf

Edited June 29, 2014 by Mab

[Avossos]

I like it

[WshfulThnkn]

nice building......20 years ago.

[cloud713]

The night time rendering looks nice.. Heh. I have to say I had high hopes after what they did with the Houston Ballet Center, but maybe HSPVA had certain design guidelines they wanted Gensler to go by?

[fernz]

nice building......20 years ago.

Exactly!

[H-Town Man]

I agree about the nighttime rendering looking better. Beige brick is just too associated with 70's suburban schools for me to like it here.

 

The interiors are exciting.

 

[Timoric]

-

 

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by Timoric

[mollusk]

Would the brick color be better if we called it "fawn?"  Or perhaps we can click our heels three times and think of it as an homage to the brick on the Gulf Building and various other historical structures with buff brick. 

 

For some odd reason, the giant letters are starting to grow on me - particularly now that it's clearer that they will separate off the porte cochere.

Edited June 30, 2014 by mollusk

[Subdude]

It does look better at night, since the ugly beige brick isn't as noticeable.  It's still a disjointed mess however.  If they have to use those jumbo "HSPVA" letters they should at least choose a decent typeface.