2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[memebag]

Interesting reading from someone who has no dog in this hunt

Yeah, neither of these dogs are far enough to the right for Melanie Phillips.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Another tidbit

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.a...305420655186700

[wernicke]

Another tidbit

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.a...305420655186700

Do you believe that crap? Because that article was both crazy and stupid.

[TJones]

Do you believe that crap? Because that article was both crazy and stupid.

You don't recall Obama saying this ?

The government now funds about half of Public Allies' expenses through Clinton's AmeriCorps. Obama wants to fully fund it and expand it into a national program that some see costing $500 billion. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded" as the military, he said.

[DJ V Lawrence]

You don't recall Obama saying this ?

The government now funds about half of Public Allies' expenses through Clinton's AmeriCorps. Obama wants to fully fund it and expand it into a national program that some see costing $500 billion. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded" as the military, he said.

Is that good or bad?

(I don't have an opinion yet. That's why I ask)

[TJones]

Is that good or bad?

(I don't have an opinion yet. That's why I ask)

I do not believe the USA needs a militia on top of an already fully armed and fully functioning voluntary military. Under Obama's plan, I guarantee that it won't cost an additional $500 billion. He will simply cut military defense spending in HALF and put $250 billion toward his new Socialist Civilian Army. That all those between the ages of 18 and 30 will HAVE to join and serve for a 3 year minimum. That is how that breaks down DJ. So, "just as strong, and just as well funded", actually means under funded and under powered.

Edited September 13, 2008 by TJones

[DJ V Lawrence]

I do not believe the USA needs a militia on top of an already fully armed and fully functioning voluntary military. Under Obama's plan, I guarantee that it won't cost an additional $500 billion. He will simply cut military defense spending in HALF and put $250 billion toward his new Socialist Civilian Army. That all those between the ages of 18 and 30 will HAVE to join and serve for a 3 year minimum. That is how that breaks down DJ. So, "just as strong, and just as well funded", actually means under funded and under powered.

I don't know all the numbers or my stance just yet, and when. That "Socialist Civilian Army" thing sounds off though. From what I understand, Obama was looking to spend on both the civilian defense sector AND the into military defense. I also believe he would get that to pass in Congress too, since there's a Democratic majority. He also seemed to support the recent new GI Bill when from what I also understand, McCain voted against (please correct me there if I'm wrong there).

What I'm not aware of is how he plans to fund his plans. Though I hear that those plans are in detail on his website, I'll just wait until the debates to hear them break it down live. At that time, I think I'll decide if I like the overall plan or not.

[TJones]

I don't know all the numbers or my stance just yet, and when. That "Socialist Civilian Army" thing sounds off though. From what I understand, Obama was looking to spend on both the civilian defense sector AND the into military defense. I also believe he would get that to pass in Congress too, since there's a Democratic majority. He also seemed to support the recent new GI Bill when from what I also understand, McCain voted against (please correct me there if I'm wrong there).

What I'm not aware of is how he plans to fund his plans. Though I hear that those plans are in detail on his website, I'll just wait until the debates to hear them break it down live. At that time, I think I'll decide if I like the overall plan or not.

The GI Bill, I am sure had some attachments to it, as usual, that don't have anything to do with the Bill introduced itself. If you worry about earmarks, that is how they get through. DJ, you have to look at the whole bill, not just the title bro.

[DJ V Lawrence]

The GI Bill, I am sure had some attachments to it, as usual, that don't have anything to do with the Bill introduced itself. If you worry about earmarks, that is how they get through. DJ, you have to look at the whole bill, not just the title bro.

Can you explain what earmarks you're referring to? Because as a veteran, the only part of the new GI Bill I read was "College $$$$$$$$ starting in Fall 2009"

[tierwestah]

Did anyone see Sarah Palin interview with Charlie Gibson on Thurday, Sept 11. Even if i was in support of Mccain, i think i'd jump ship because of this idiot. Does she know how to answer a question. Gibson asked her about the Bush doctrine and she froze up. I'm not even in to politics all that much and I could easily tell by her body language that her mouth stank with b/s.

Edited September 16, 2008 by tierwestah
Language

[DJ V Lawrence]

Did anyone see Sarah Palin interview with Charlie Gibson on Thurday, Sept 11. Even if i was in support of Mccain, i think i'd jump ship because of this idiot. Does she know how to answer a question. Gibson asked her about the Bush doctrine and she froze up. I'm not even in to politics all that much and I could easily tell by her body language that her mouth stank

I was hoping to watch it, but I'm sure many of us can relate to the fact that we were distracted by the Presidential Forum that night, plus getting ready for Ike. I do plan on watching it on youtube later this week, then hittin' y'all up with if I thought she answered what I wanted to get answered. Also, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that the Palin/ABC interview was spread out for a few nights with Thursday being the first. Should that be the case, that was during the Ike blackout. A lot of us including myself have some catching up to do

BTW, when you say "Gibson asked her about the Bush doctrine and she froze up," are you saying she stumbled at first, or she flat-out didn't know what it was?

[KinkaidAlum]

I was hoping to watch it, but I'm sure many of us can relate to the fact that we were distracted by the Presidential Forum that night, plus getting ready for Ike. I do plan on watching it on youtube later this week, then hittin' y'all up with if I thought she answered what I wanted to get answered. Also, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that the Palin/ABC interview was spread out for a few nights with Thursday being the first. Should that be the case, that was during the Ike blackout. A lot of us including myself have some catching up to do

BTW, when you say "Gibson asked her about the Bush doctrine and she froze up," are you saying she stumbled at first, or she flat-out didn't know what it was?

She flat out didn't know what it was. Apparently, she wasn't coached on that answer. I am sure you'll be seeing her initial response all over the web, Daily Show, Colbert Report, etc...

I wasn't going to vote for McCain regardless, but this Palin interview just made me make a $$$ donation to Obama's campaign. Palin was downright scary in her views and her lack of knowledge. About the only thing worse would be McCain telling us today that the fundamentals of our economy are still strong on a day when our economy officially hit the fan.

[tierwestah]

BTW, when you say "Gibson asked her about the Bush doctrine and she froze up," are you saying she stumbled at first, or she flat-out didn't know what it was?

Yeah I'm gonna repeat KK and say she flat out didn't know crap. Anytime she answered a question, she would spin into talking about something totally irrelavant to the topic.

It was so clear she was intimidated a little by Gibson and like a dog, he smelled her fear and kept attacking. Palin is nothing but a hot chick who's only qualified to run a beauty pagent or direct a porn star video. Maybe even star in one! To be honest, when i look at her the only thing i think about is the sayin' "Bobbin n Weavin!"

Anyone who votes these two into power are just those who are so dead set in their ways just like our local NIMBYs who oppose light rail on Richmond.

Edited September 16, 2008 by tierwestah

[KinkaidAlum]

Wow. Just wow.

Apparently, hackers got into Sarah Palin's email account. She has been using gov.sarah@yahoo.com and gov.palin@yahoo.com FOR OFFICIAL BUSINESS despite warnings.

This lady is in WAY OVER HER HEAD.

[HtownWxBoy]

Wow. Just wow.

Apparently, hackers got into Sarah Palin's email account. She has been using gov.sarah@yahoo.com and gov.palin@yahoo.com FOR OFFICIAL BUSINESS despite warnings.

This lady is in WAY OVER HER HEAD.

I can just see it... "vicepresidentpalin@hotmail.com"... ... what a moron.

[20thStDad]

Hey at least she knows that much about email. I doubt McCain has ever used it. Not that he should really, it's not the most secure or classified way to get info across.

[HtownWxBoy]

Hey at least she knows that much about email. I doubt McCain has ever used it. Not that he should really, it's not the most secure or classified way to get info across.

Not sure what would worry me more... having a President / Vice President who thinks it's OK to use something like yahoo for government email or having a President who does not know how to use email at all.

[OkieEric]

Hmmm...I wonder why we haven't seen any electoral-vote.com updates lately? Why could that be? It IS the only thing that matters now, right? Gallup actually has Obama with a 2 pt lead now, so that's probably the one that counts now. I'm betting that the electoral map will probably shift back in Obama's favor the next few days as this a$$ kicking in the market probably isn't helping McCain much

[KinkaidAlum]

We've spent the last 8 years with a President who makes political decisions with his gut rather than making hard decisions about what is best for the nation. That is why we had Brownie heading FEMA and cocaine + sex parties between the Interior Dept. and Oil Execs.

McCain's pick of Palin demonstrates a really BAD decision. Sure, it might be good for a bump in the polls, but naming someone so grossly UNQUALIFIED to be V.P. shows a complete lack of judgement. Who else is he going to surround himself? Will we see Elisabeth Hasselbeck running the FAA? How about Kelsey Grammer to head FDA?

[Mark F. Barnes]

Wow. Just wow.

Apparently, hackers got into Sarah Palin's email account. She has been using gov.sarah@yahoo.com and gov.palin@yahoo.com FOR OFFICIAL BUSINESS despite warnings.

This lady is in WAY OVER HER HEAD.

None of the emails that were posted by the hacker contained any "OFFICIAL BUSINESS" as you like to put it. The are personal emails between mostly her family, and friends, she briefly states a few times about how she has been swamped in her duties as Gov. hardly can be construed as "OFFICIAL BUSINESS". The state attorney of Alaska has reviewed them as well as the Attorney Generals office, and the only thing being looked at now is how the can prosecute the punk that did this and the website that posted them.

Quit drinking the Media Kool-Aide. The fact that she merely mentions being Gov is a pain in the ass or a lot of work is not "OFFICIAL BUSINESS", give us a break, and quit grasping for straws. What is with all this hate towards this woman? You have the nerve to call the Right haters in other threads, yet that's all you've done since the hour Sarah Palin was announced. Do you hate her because she doesn't fear you or your kind? Do you hate her because she has a friggin' backbone that won't bend like others have, out of fear of being "politically incorrect"? Do you hate her because other people identify with her, and not your Metro-sexual world of shallow users? And do you know what, I say hate her more because the more you hate her, the stronger she gets, thus the more you will hate her. And in the end that's all you've got is hate. Yet the Right is nothing but haters correct?

We've spent the last 8 years with a President who makes political decisions with his gut rather than making hard decisions about what is best for the nation. That is why we had Brownie heading FEMA and cocaine + sex parties between the Interior Dept. and Oil Execs.

McCain's pick of Palin demonstrates a really BAD decision. Sure, it might be good for a bump in the polls, but naming someone so grossly UNQUALIFIED to be V.P. shows a complete lack of judgement. Who else is he going to surround himself? Will we see Elisabeth Hasselbeck running the FAA? How about Kelsey Grammer to head FDA?

Ever since George W Bush came into office in 2001 inviting a "new tone" in Washington, and you and your kind on the left spat it back in his face and have done so for the subsequent almost-eight years. I'm tired of your Lefties' ad hominems and non-sequiturs, lecturing us all on how "we hate." Keep it up. Democrats may not only lose the White House, but possibly the House and Senate as well, and it won't be because the candidates were that much better. It'll be because the American people are tired of your protests, your riots, your Photo-shops, your celebrity admonishments, your arrogance, your narcissism, and your hate.

Barack Obama, has been given real criticism here, even as some have mocked him as being "The MESSiah" or "Uh-bama", in reality he isn't really worth the job he's ignoring now, to make his run for the Presidency. This talk of Constitutional Law Scholar comes off as being a little dry when it comes to the fact he hasn't voted in cases dealing with what is actually presented in the Constitution. This isn't a bash just check his voting record. He's constantly going on about the 90+% of the time McCain went with his President in voting in the Senate. Well at least he cast a vote and was present to do so. Obama talks about what experience he has, when he's been absent in 70% of his session. What experience do you get, not showing up for work? Oh but he's a Constitutional Scholar, Woo Hoo so the friggin' what. The US Constitution, when it was written, was a contract the people had among each other as to how they were to decide laws amongst one another (through the states) and how we were to be represented to the world. It was a minarchist and minimalist contract that has been torn to pieces by members of all groups since it's coming into law. Some of the very same Presidents that are praised as being the greatest have in fact been the worst in the fact that they have ignored the very document they are sworn to uphold. Obama hasn't exactly shown me signs that he wants to keep in what the document actually guidelines as limitations to the power the government actually grants officials. The office after all is a creation of the Constitution and the latter is only an agreement among the people of this country. We are the ones who have a say in it, no other people, and it has a means to be "ratified" written in it. Which have been largely ignored because it is easier to do so by using legislation that won't be fought against unless the Supreme Court wishes to hear it in the first place. What a crock of crap. Judges legislating from the bench, a major no no in basic governmental theory. You lose your checks and balances, once that line is crossed, and you enter a point of no return. You do not want to go there.

Now I don't sit in this thread and bash Barrack Obama, I do address his views and I do defend McCain and Palin when people bash them, but I do it without bashing Obama. I don't care where he went to church or what his "crazy uncle" (his word not mine) pastor had to say. I don't care if his wife is or isn't proud of here country for the first time in her life. I could care less, all I care about is what the hell he is going to do if he takes office. I don't post distasteful cartoons or photo-shopped pictures, and I try to listen to both views, and try to understand what they are trying to get at. But I'm on day 6 without power as I am sure a lot of others are, and my fuse is a little shorter, and I get enough and say what I feel. But people need to get a grip and quit feeding the bullshit media frenzy, by repeating the crap over and over again, just to try and make there candidate look better. It happens on both sides, don't get me wrong, I just try to steer clear of it that crap. I can state my case without resorting to posting BS and propaganda about the other person, just to try and make a silly point, that in the end means absolutely nothing come November 4th. I find all this EXTREMELY amusing that people are comparing the VICE presidential nominee to the PRESIDENTIAL nominee. Seems like McCain is playing second fiddle to Palin, if you follow the attack plan of the left. They are going after her with both barrels, and for what, to try and sway a vote? If you ask me, they are cutting their own throat.

See you at the polls........................

[westguy]

How can they prosecute if her account wasn't hacked? From what I've heard, the person just guessed the answer to her password recovery question. If she's dumb enough to make it that obvious, then by all means, give her the nuclear codes.

[Mark F. Barnes]

How can they prosecute if her account wasn't hacked? From what I've heard, the person just guessed the answer to her password recovery question. If she's dumb enough to make it that obvious, then by all means, give her the nuclear codes.

Actually guessing someones password is hacking by definition. That's all hacking is, unauthorized accessing something by use of a computer. It's like reading someones mail because it wasn't sealed properly, it's not addressed to you, it's not yours. Email laws have come full circle since the beginning. Emails are now considered legally documents, also the use of disclaimers at the end od emails, gives you legal protection in certain instances. Might be surprised by what all can be prosecuted, if they really want to.

[west20th]

This isn't a bash just check his voting record. He's constantly going on about the 90+% of the time McCain went with his President in voting in the Senate. Well at least he cast a vote and was present to do so.

McCain has the second worst attendance record and Obama has the fourth worst. Neither is anything to brag about.

Edited September 18, 2008 by west20th

[westguy]

You'll have to ask Red about internet law, but email does not have the same guarantee of privacy that snail mail does. Your company can access anything you send and anything addressed to you that passes over their server. Similarly, content providers like Yahoo! have a disclaimer which gives them ownership of anything you place on their servers. The government is also arguing that email is more analgous to "e-postcards" that could be read without "opening" anything. So good luck trying to find out what laws were broken.

Basically, the issue is that Palin is a dunce because her security question was "What is your zipcode?" This election is getting weirder, so next we'll probably find out that Wasilla's debt was sent to help Nigerian princes recover their bank accounts.

[Daniepwils]

I saw this on a blog somewhere and thought it was interesting. (I will say that I am not voting for either of the two):

Let's look at the educational background of your two options:

Obama:

Occidental College - Two years.

Columbia University - B.A. political science with a specialization in international relations.

Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

& Biden:

University of Delaware - B.A. in history and B.A. in political science.

Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

vs.

McCain:

United States Naval Academy - Class rank 894 of 899

& Palin:

Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester

North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study

University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism

Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester

University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in journalism

Now, which team are you going to hire ?

[HtownWxBoy]

As expected it looks like the post-republican convention surge is wearing off... Obama's numbers are up... McCain's are down... Palin's are also going down (kind of expected when you want to be next in line for the Presidency yet don't even know not to use yahoo email for government business)

[ricco67]

I saw this on a blog somewhere and thought it was interesting. (I will say that I am not voting for either of the two):

Let's look at the educational background of your two options:

Obama:

Occidental College - Two years.

Columbia University - B.A. political science with a specialization in international relations.

Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

& Biden:

University of Delaware - B.A. in history and B.A. in political science.

Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

vs.

McCain:

United States Naval Academy - Class rank 894 of 899

& Palin:

Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester

North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study

University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism

Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester

University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in journalism

Now, which team are you going to hire ?

If you're going by THAT standard:

Clinton:

BS in Foreign Service in 1968 from Georgtown Univeristy

Juris Doctor from Yale in 73

GW Bush:

College:

Yale University, bachelor's degree, history

Graduate School:

Harvard University, Master of Business Administration

Abe Lincoln:

formal education consisted of about 18 months of schooling, but he was largely self-educated and an avid reader

[Mark F. Barnes]

You'll have to ask Red about internet law, but email does not have the same guarantee of privacy that snail mail does. Your company can access anything you send and anything addressed to you that passes over their server. Similarly, content providers like Yahoo! have a disclaimer which gives them ownership of anything you place on their servers. The government is also arguing that email is more analgous to "e-postcards" that could be read without "opening" anything. So good luck trying to find out what laws were broken.

Basically, the issue is that Palin is a dunce because her security question was "What is your zipcode?" This election is getting weirder, so next we'll probably find out that Wasilla's debt was sent to help Nigerian princes recover their bank accounts.

Violation of US CODE Title 18 Part 1

[RedScare]

It is a crime to hack into others' servers. It is not a crime to look at data on your own server.

Mark,

I don't hate sarah palin. I hate the thought of a candidate even more unqualified than GWB being near the white house. And I disagree with almost everything you wrote in those couple of posts. With the economic and financial meltdown currently occuring does anyone really want a POW who admits he knows nothing about the economy and a self described hockey mom in charge?

You don't need to answer me. But from you posts I suspect that you have far more to lose in an economic collapse than I do. Be careful who you vote for. An R next to one's name clearly does not make one an economic expert.

[west20th]

It is a crime to hack into others' servers. It is not a crime to look at data on your own server.

Mark,

I don't hate sarah palin. I hate the thought of a candidate even more unqualified than GWB being near the white house. And I disagree with almost everything you wrote in those couple of posts. With the economic and financial meltdown currently occuring does anyone really want a POW who admits he knows nothing about the economy and a self described hockey mom in charge?

You don't need to answer me. But from you posts I suspect that you have far more to lose in an economic collapse than I do. Be careful who you vote for. An R next to one's name clearly does not make one an economic expert.

Even though McCain says "The issue of economics is not something I