2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[pineda]

Try reading Bob Woodward's new book when it comes out. Early reviews and Woodward's own statements suggest that Bush may have a false set of convictions. He has always been accused of not having intellectual curiosity. Many of his "convictions" seem to me to have a political convenience to them, not the least among them his religious convictions. Even his patriotism has a falseness to it.

I'll pass on buying Woodward's book, I heard him being interviewed about it, and it sounds like a real snooze to me.

Got anything else to justify your earlier statement of "growing body of evidence" or was that about it?

Sorry, regardless of President George Bush's policies, I don't question his patriotism after September 11th.

[RedScare]

I'll pass on buying Woodward's book, I heard him being interviewed about it, and it sounds like a real snooze to me.

Got anything else to justify your earlier statement of "growing body of evidence" or was that about it?

Sorry, regardless of President George Bush's policies, I don't question his patriotism after September 11th.

Apparently none that you'd look at. Not sure why'd you'd even ask, given that you already have your mind made up. And I don't even know why I took you up on it.

[pineda]

Apparently none that you'd look at. Not sure why'd you'd even ask, given that you already have your mind made up. And I don't even know why I took you up on it.

Actually, I was serious when I asked for more sources. I just don't care to buy/read anything from Woodward, sorry.

If you have additional information that supports your claim to the "growing body of evidence" that suggests that President Bush has no convictions, false convictions, whatever, please point to them.

[infinite_jim]

^How about his unprecedented powers, granted to himself through "signing statements?"

It dawned on me tonight as to how the MSM wants to give people the impression of a liberal bias when in effect the reactionary right is soft balled self-validation through perceived insight & when coupled by identity politics will help create a dangerous cocktail of market psychology for unraveling our republic. The overton window has been slammed shut on those of us that are moderate.

edit:

To elaborate on the conservative bias in media; this is something I rarely hear of in the media itself and if so it is acknowledged to be the necessary counterbalance to the "liberal bias." Nothing more is really said and intentions are assumed to be the most patriotic; the political equivalent of an ambiguous sign leading to another ambiguous sign. Yet market figures show that right leaning programs have captured the masses, yet only one of the four major operates claims to be conservative, in effect it is the vocal minority and the ratings king. Refer my previous statement as to the other three major's underlying strategies and in summation the operators have created their own vision of our politics that matter and can shift the window wherever to increase bottom lines in a harmonious discord with one another.

So I ask my fellow posters, where do you get most of your information from TV, newspaper, internet, or other informed people?

What issues matter most to you?

How is your ticket is going to handle these issues?

What are your neighbor's issues (in your opinion) and how do they weigh against yours?

[Mark F. Barnes]

Bob Woodward! Come on Red, If Woodward told me water was wet, I'd question the validity of his source. Woodward and Bernstein built huge careers off of the fact that a DC snitch felt grew a conscience and felt compelled to drop the big one in these to bumbling idiots laps, that blew up one of the biggest scandals in DC's history, and they've used it to give them some kind of credentials as the great water walkers in investigative reporting. These two clowns even distorted the truth, when the truth sounded better, to make their book on the Watergate Scandal seem more dramatic. They were given the goose that laid they golden egg, and still had to distort truths, to make themselves appear to be more than they were. Watergate was a gift from the reporting gods, but these two Shmoiger's (that's a Yiddish term for total idiot and screw up) tried their best to screw that up. I speak of this from first hand knowledge and not some slanted political view. I have had a lengthy conversation with Mark Felt over this very subject. He lives next door to my sister in Santa Rosa. Though he's been accused for years of being Deep Throat, he still denies it to this day. He says he knew Woodward well, and refers to him as a "Jock Sniffer", but also a bumbling fool. And Felt had him kissing his ass for leads all the time. They had the world dropped in their laps and still had to be spoon fed. He says the truth was, unlike the movie and book portrays, that Deep Throat sought them out, rather than they did the seeking. They were chosen because of the high probability that they screw it up, because they had a track record of doing so. And if they did, so be it, the snitch would have a clear conscience, and no one would be the worse for wear for the most part. Try that they did, it all came together, and brought down a lot of the top ranks at 1600 Pennsylvania. So I guess crap will do for brains, if luck is on your side. If it weren't for Tricky Dicks own stupid paranoia nothing would have ever come of this, but Dick imploded as we all know and the rest is history.

[Mark F. Barnes]

They must have dug up Nipsey Russell to write speeches for Obama lately, even though it may well be metaphoric, this pig deal is on fire. Jesus what can his people be thinking, he has got to think these things out, Nipsey Russell got away with this type of stuff, Obama can't. This thing is getting halareous now.

[musicman]

The opposite of pro is con

That fact is clearly seen

If progress means move forward

Then what does Congress mean?

N. Russell

[BryanS]

They must have dug up Nipsey Russell to write speeches for Obama lately, even though it may well be metaphoric, this pig deal is on fire. Jesus what can his people be thinking, he has got to think these things out, Nipsey Russell got away with this type of stuff, Obama can't. This thing is getting halareous now.

Not sure why. He's statement was about McCain's sudden "I'm the one for change" position - when the whole time, he was for something else. You can't put lipstick on a pig... or you can... but its still a pig. His statement had nothing to do with Palin, or even a jab at her...

[westguy76]

We're Gonna Frickin' Lose this Thing

Full article here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-mckay/w...t_b_124772.html

"Stop saying that!" my wife says to me. But this is not a high school football game and I'm not a cheerleader with a bad attitude. This is an election and as things stand now, we're gonna frickin' lose this thing. Obama and McCain at best are even in the polls nationally and in a recent Gallup poll McCain is ahead by four points.

Something is not right. We have a terrific candidate and a terrific VP candidate. We're coming off the worst eight years in our country's history. Six of those eight years the Congress, White House and even the Supreme Court were controlled by the Republicans and the last two years the R's have filibustered like tantrum throwing 4-year-olds, yet we're going to elect a Republican who voted with that leadership 90% of the time and a former sportscaster who wants to teach Adam and Eve as science? That's not odd as a difference of opinion, that's logically and mathematically queer.

It reminds me of playing blackjack (a losers game). You make all the right moves, play the right hands but basically the House always wins. I know what you're going to say " But I won twelve hundred dollars last year in Atlantic City!" Of course there are victories. The odds aren't tilted crazy, but there is a 51%-49% advantage. And in the long run, the house has to win. The house will win.

So what is this house advantage the Republicans have? It's the press. There is no more fourth estate. Wait, hold on...I'm not going down some esoteric path with theories on the deregulation of the media and corporate bias and CNN versus Fox...I mean it: there is no more functioning press in this country. And without a real press the corporate and religious Republicans can lie all they want and get away with it. And that's the 51% advantage.

Maybe someday reality we smack you in the face and you will realize that your opinion are not the majority, that your assumptions are not fact, you might realize that your ideas about what has happened the last 7 years are radical.

You are clearing gripping here, I am not trying to judge you here, but if you could step outside of yourself and read what you just wrote you could maybe see that you are over the edge and slipping. You are clearly on the end of a spectrum, far from logic, if you could just see that then you might understand why you are on the losing side of reason.

[sevfiv]

^the post you quoted was the full article by Adam McKay (cropped here for copyright reasons)

[Highway6]

The opposite of pro is con

That fact is clearly seen

If progress means move forward

Then what does Congress mean?

N. Russell

If used as an abbreviation for contra, then yes.. con (against) could be the opposite of pro (for).

However, con com and col are also the latin prefixes for with or together. ...e.g. concerted or consensus

Ergo, Mr Russel is full of Merda!

[KinkaidAlum]

Not sure why. He's statement was about McCain's sudden "I'm the one for change" position - when the whole time, he was for something else. You can't put lipstick on a pig... or you can... but its still a pig. His statement had nothing to do with Palin, or even a jab at her...

Unfortunately, this is where the Republicans win.

This is stupid but stupid is what plays in American politics.

I commend Obama for trying to take the highroad but he's gonna get swiftboated right out of this race. When will the Democrats learn that in order to win, you're gonna have to stoop to the Republican level?

The Obama campaign needs to come out with a commercial ASAP showing McCain making the EXACT SAME COMMENT about Hillary Clinton's healthcare proposal less than a year ago and then tell people who the pig really is; McCain.

There is too much to lose in this election to try and take the highroad because the Republicans haven't traveled on that road in 30 years. All one has to do is read this thread to see such examples... Willie Horton is alive in well on the right.

[Highway6]

Oh! ye'll take the high road and

I'll take the low road,

And I'll be in Scotland afore ye;

[TJones]

I find it amazing he is running on a promise of: hey we sucked in the past but now we are gonna change, just don't ask how.

You might be right, sounds awfully familiar, in fact it sounds just like the Obama gameplan of "CHANGE". Base your whole campaign on "HOPE". Don't tell anyone how you are gonna change things in Washington and hope you get elected.

SO, we have a much more qualified candidate running on the same promise as the opposition, and you want to chastise him for it. The big difference is McCain will let you keep more of your money while Obama wants to redistribute more of your money to the poor. Socialism at it's finest.

[tierwestah]

This thread has been nothin short of hilarious. I tried reading all pages but I'm laughing too hard. The only quality I see from Sarah Palin is she's hot. Nothin else. Her speech seemed so dry and confusing last week. Obama's plan of change seems to be the more sincere. Mccain has barely said anything that supports change except his sudden desire to want it.

Oh and TJones, your sigs are a joke!

[TJones]

Oh and TJones, your sigs are a joke!

Thanks Tier. Have a nice day buddy.

[memebag]

Nope, not entertaining it persay, more like, anything is possible.

Really? I thought some things were impossible. You learn something new every day.

Which one of the candidates spent 5 years in an enemy prison being tortured? Have you ever seen "The Manchurian Candidate"?

[TJones]

Really? I thought some things were impossible. You learn something new every day.

Which one of the candidates spent 5 years in an enemy prison being tortured?

I don't know, how long has Barry Hussein been in the Democrat party ?

[Mark F. Barnes]

Unfortunately, this is where the Republicans win.

This is stupid but stupid is what plays in American politics.

I commend Obama for trying to take the highroad but he's gonna get swiftboated right out of this race. When will the Democrats learn that in order to win, you're gonna have to stoop to the Republican level?

The Obama campaign needs to come out with a commercial ASAP showing McCain making the EXACT SAME COMMENT about Hillary Clinton's healthcare proposal less than a year ago and then tell people who the pig really is; McCain.

There is too much to lose in this election to try and take the highroad because the Republicans haven't traveled on that road in 30 years. All one has to do is read this thread to see such examples... Willie Horton is alive in well on the right.

Okay I am going to try the spoon feeding technique for a change.

Let's use common sense, all your BS partisan politics aside. You can do a search on McCain over the past 20 some odd years and he's used this very line over thirty times.

In comes Palin and puts Lipstick on a Pit bull to get a laugh, and it's a hit, and she's identified with lipstick in the general public. And she it the only person in this race that actually wears the stuff.

Now comes Obama a week later and uses the lipstick on a pig metaphor and it's blown up in his face. You can search his entire career and see that he's never used that metaphor in his entire life, that can be found in a recorded public forum. So why does he chose to use it now. I'll tell you, not a damn clue to how timing works, and his speech writers should be fired on the spot for letting it happen. Metaphoric or not, it's out of character for him, and it's gives the appearance of a direct shot at Palin, whether it is or not. The damage is done. That my friends is inexperience at it's finest. No one with any common sense would have gone there. Plain and simple. You think I am wrong, keep watching. McCain doesn't even have to address Obama's comments of this morning that it's something the McCain camp has done to distract from the issues. What a literal dumbass, McCain is not the distraction, YOU are the distraction. Quit trying to be cute and comedic and stick to your original policies, and quit changing your stance on issues daily. No offshore drilling, well maybe some with limitations, Get out of Iraq, well maybe get out in due time, The surge was a failure, Oh it work better than anyone expected. Jesus H Christ make up your mind. McCain is not going to have to beat Obama, his handlers will implode him if he doesn't start thinking for himself.

[memebag]

I don't know, how long has Barry Hussein been in the Democrat party ?

You haven't seen "The Manchurian Candidate"? It's a great film. It's about a war hero from a prominent family who was brainwashed by communists to become a sleeper agent.

[TJones]

You haven't seen "The Manchurian Candidate"? It's a great film. It's about a war hero from a prominent family who was brainwashed by communists to become a sleeper agent.

Yes, yes, remake with Denzel a few years ago, I know what the movie is about. So, you obviously see my point that anything is possible. Especially after McCain's meteoric rise of 26 years in the Senate, and sudden superstar status ?

Oh, and a new sig, just for Tier, just tryin' to keep it fresh for ya. I don't want to let down my fans.

[CyKat]

Okay I am going to try the spoon feeding technique for a change.

Let's use common sense, all your BS partisan politics aside. You can do a search on McCain over the past 20 some odd years and he's used this very line over thirty times.

In comes Palin and puts Lipstick on a Pit bull to get a laugh, and it's a hit, and she's identified with lipstick in the general public. And she it the only person in this race that actually wears the stuff.

Now comes Obama a week later and uses the lipstick on a pig metaphor and it's blown up in his face. You can search his entire career and see that he's never used that metaphor in his entire life, that can be found in a recorded public forum. So why does he chose to use it now. I'll tell you, not a damn clue to how timing works, and his speech writers should be fired on the spot for letting it happen. Metaphoric or not, it's out of character for him, and it's gives the appearance of a direct shot at Palin, whether it is or not. The damage is done. That my friends is inexperience at it's finest. No one with any common sense would have gone there. Plain and simple. You think I am wrong, keep watching. McCain doesn't even have to address Obama's comments of this morning that it's something the McCain camp has done to distract from the issues. What a literal dumbass, McCain is not the distraction, YOU are the distraction. Quit trying to be cute and comedic and stick to your original policies, and quit changing your stance on issues daily. No offshore drilling, well maybe some with limitations, Get out of Iraq, well maybe get out in due time, The surge was a failure, Oh it work better than anyone expected. Jesus H Christ make up your mind. McCain is not going to have to beat Obama, his handlers will implode him if he doesn't start thinking for himself.

And to think, He's still your guy.

Cykat

[memebag]

Yes, yes, remake with Denzel a few years ago, I know what the movie is about. So, you obviously see my point that anything is possible.

You're right. They're both sleeper agents. In fact, I'm a sleeper agent and so are you.

[CyKat]

The really funny thing is that Obama is either a Muslim or.......a faithful follower of Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Now that's a hoot.

You folks sure got yourselves a heck of a candidate there.

What's that noise????? It's the sound of the Obama presidential run imploding,

......and he's doing it all himself.

Chicago democrat campaign motto, "vote early and vote often". Now that's what we need in the white house.

CyKat

[Mark F. Barnes]

And to think, He's still your guy.

Cykat

Place the Bong at your feet and step back, because you have got to be high!

[CyKat]

Place the Bong at your feet and step back, because you have got to be high!

If I'm wrong about that, I apologize. I thought I read a post by you defending him and I really didn't want to go through a 30+ page thread. My bad.

CyKat, who hasn't been high like that in nearly 20 years.

[TJones]

You're right. They're both sleeper agents. In fact, I'm a sleeper agent and so are you.

Ok, so then may the best sleeper agent win.

[Mark F. Barnes]

All you Bush hating bastards out there have got to laugh at our boy Dubya, nobody makes better fun of him than himself. Enjoy!

I nearly pissed my pants when I ran across this! Now that's funny, I don't care who you are.

[ricco67]

I'm still waiting on people to point out things they don't like about the candidate they plan on voting for.

I'm just sayin'.

[DJ V Lawrence]

You might be right, sounds awfully familiar, in fact it sounds just like the Obama gameplan of "CHANGE". Base your whole campaign on "HOPE". Don't tell anyone how you are gonna change things in Washington and hope you get elected.

SO, we have a much more qualified candidate running on the same promise as the opposition, and you want to chastise him for it. The big difference is McCain will let you keep more of your money while Obama wants to redistribute more of your money to the poor. Socialism at it's finest.

This is exactly the campaign strategy I don't understand, and I'd really like you to answer this question. There's been a President for the past eight years who represents the Republican Party and conservative ideas in policy. Why would the McCain/Palin ticket want to "Change" that? What's the shame in using the fact that McCain voted 90-95% of the time for the President that represents his own party and using that as an example of the "experience" factor that so many people in both parties are talking about? ANY devoted member of a political party would more than likely also vote for their party's policies more than against it. If anything, why not say "I'm going to keep the same policies as Bush, my fellow Republican, only I'm going to do it better and make them work. At the same time, I'm going to reform the Republican Party after getting voted in by trying to get people to vote out Congress, because the President's done a great job, and THEY'RE the ones that failed"?

I mean, how are you going to support the President, then try to alienate any association with him, then try to improve his strategies after getting elected?

-----------------------------------------------

Also, how are you going to claim that Obama hasn't told "anyone how you are gonna change things in Washington and hope you get elected," when he, Biden, AND John McCain were ALL getting interviewed on the issues this past weekend. Hell, Obama was on the O Reilly Factor for four nights including tonight, and on ABC's This Week, and neither let ANY issue slide. Reilly for example made Obama tell everyone exactly where he stood on the issues, and how he planned to fix it, and he blatantly told everyone his plans. Biden was on Meet The Press, and got drilled hardcore by Tom Brokaw on issues like the surge, discrepancy on policy, etc. And McCain was on Fox News Sunday. Regardless of if you agree with either Obama, Biden, or McCain's policies, you KNOW where they stand, and everyone now has a semi-idea as to how they plan to implement.

Sarah Pain however has not had a drilling interview on the policies since join the general election. That's an absolute lack of substance until that happens. Right now, all we have to rely on her is her rhetoric on the campaign trail, and some false liberal lies on the internet. NEITHER have substance. Her first interview is going to be on September 11th on the day her son's being sent to Iraq? WTF? How are you suppose to drill a parent on the day their child's getting sent to war on the real issues? That sounds like more of a sympathy-move than a get-to-know-the-candidate move. Why aren't you slamming Palen for not giving people insight on her stance on issues via tough interviews like the other three?