2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[memebag]

I did answer you with posts #1501 and #1504.

No, you just asked more questions. What is your answer?

[TJones]

No, you just asked more questions. What is your answer?

Same as post #1504. I don't think my belief will sway any of you. You agreed that I was entitled to my opinion. Do I think it is important for people to know whether Obama is lying about his faith, ABSOLUTELY ! Go watch the youtube again, is that a "gaffe" ? How long have you been an Atheist meme ? Have you accidentally ever mixed up what your faith is, in those years ? I haven't, not once in 38 years, I highly doubt any Catholics on here have ever mistakenly said they were of the Jewish faith. Especially if they have been practicing their religion longer than 20 years.

[Highway6]

Puppies and rainbows would be about as effective as Joe T. Nascar rushing the Pentagon with his huntin' rifle.

The way to STOP fascism is to hold leaders accountable. We're doing a horrible job of it right now since we've allowed an illegal war, changes to the Constitution, gutting of the Justice Department, and expansion of powers to the executive branch. Education is the best defense against a rise in fascism but we Americans are growing lazy.

And if your way doesn't work...

while I agree, joe t nascar wouldn't have much of a chance against the fascist regime and their military.. i would like to think the morale of he and his fellow freedom loving revolutionaries might be slightly higher if they weren't armed with just puppies.

[houstonmacbro]

This surely won't help Barack:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09092008/news/...ndal_128142.htm

[sevfiv]

Thank goodness Obama is not Rev. Wright's keeper

[houstonmacbro]

Thank goodness Obama is not Rev. Wright's keeper

LOL

So right. But still, it will be guilt-by-association. Or someone will no-doubt use this to confirm Barack's Muslimness.

[memebag]

Same as post #1504. I don't think my belief will sway any of you. You agreed that I was entitled to my opinion. Do I think it is important for people to know whether Obama is lying about his faith, ABSOLUTELY !

Why, though? I think most politicans lie about their religious beliefs, but I don't repeat my opinion in post after post. It seems to be especially important to you. Why is that?

[TJones]

Why, though? I think most politicans lie about their religious beliefs, but I don't repeat my opinion in post after post. It seems to be especially important to you. Why is that?

Because people's belief systems play an important part in their daily lives and how they conduct themselves. I wouldn't expect you to understand, and you know why.

So, can you give me some examples of those "MOST" politicians who have lied about their faith to get into office ?

FYI, you and your Obama buddies keep regurgitating it. I left it way back in some post in the 1400's. If you don't want to hear about it, quit asking me, and move on like I have.

[memebag]

Because people's belief systems play an important part in their daily lives and how they conduct themselves. I wouldn't expect you to understand, and you know why.

I don't, but I can guess. Is it because you're biggotted against atheists, too?

[west20th]

You intend to overthrow the military with puppies and rainbows ??

Your going to overthrow the US military? Even with automatic weapons fat chance.

[TJones]

I don't, but I can guess. Is it because you're biggotted against atheists, too?

LOL! You saying that I have ever judged you for not believing in GOD ? I am not gonna judge you, I will just be the one waving at you from Heaven. I may be standing right next to you in Hell though. meme, if I felt that I didn't like you because of your lack of a belief system, I would have put you on ignore. I respect you, take me at my word or not, I won't lose any sleep over it.

You can't understand how religious beliefs play a part in people's daily lives, because you believe in nothing. That is why I think you are having a hard time grasping this whole faith based thing. It's ok though, vote with your heart.

[westguy76]

"I disagree with Obama's flip to allow for "limited" offshore drilling increases in areas where it was once banned. What does limited mean? Why did he change his views?"

Because --oops--, have you even put gas in a car, are you aware of the fact that we are dependant on foriegn oil, are you aware that the majority of that oil comes from not too friendly places, and are you even cognisent of the fact that anything we do even if it takes years is positive to fix these problems!

head explodes.

Thank goodness Obama is not Rev. Wright's keeper

hell, he is not even his brothers keeper.

[memebag]

You can't understand how religious beliefs play a part in people's daily lives, because you believe in nothing. That is why I think you are having a hard time grasping this whole faith based thing. It's ok though, vote with your heart.

Ick. That gets the ballot all messy.

I think I can understand how religious beliefs play a part in people's daily lives, since I used to be a devout Christian.

I'm not saying you don't like me because of my beliefs, but that you seem to have preconceptions about atheists (and Muslims) that aren't necessarily true. And really, I think you know Obama isn't a Muslim. I think you probably know enough about religious faith to see that a real Muslim wouldn't present himself as a Christian so long and so thoroughly. I think you just like to say it because you think it will scare people.

[west20th]

"I disagree with Obama's flip to allow for "limited" offshore drilling increases in areas where it was once banned. What does limited mean? Why did he change his views?"

Because dumbass, have you even put gas in a car, are you aware of the fact that we are dependant on foriegn oil, are you aware that the majority of that oil comes from not too friendly places, and are you even cognisent of the fact that anything we do even if it takes years is positive to fix these problems!

head explodes.

hell, he is not even his brothers keeper.

Nothing like polite, intelligent discourse.

[Highway6]

Your going to overthrow the US military? Even with automatic weapons fat chance.

i have no plans on overthrowing the military with either puppies or automatic weapons.

nor do i fear a fascist regime and the need to do so. but you're missing the point.

obviously the 2nd amendment couldnt have envisioned the country's military strength that the people might have to go against one day, but i just find it funny that the 2nd amendment was put in place for exactly that kind of situation, and the ones that fear, or at least in the recent past have warned that the country is heading in that direction of fascism, want to do away with their back-up plan.

Of course the people wouldnt have a chance against the military, but the 2nd amendment represents the people's right to fight back.. and you wanna go and take away that right.

so like i said.. ultimate act of pre-emptive surrender.

hell, he is not even his brothers keeper.

haha.. i read Sean Hannity is willing to send Obama's brother $1000 if someone can get him a proper address. I think thats equivalent to a decades salary or something.

yeahhh... we'll see who's the better brother keeper around here !!!

[TJones]

Ick. That gets the ballot all messy.

I think I can understand how religious beliefs play a part in people's daily lives, since I used to be a devout Christian.

I'm not saying you don't like me because of my beliefs, but that you seem to have preconceptions about atheists (and Muslims) that aren't necessarily true. And really, I think you know Obama isn't a Muslim. I think you probably know enough about religious faith to see that a real Muslim wouldn't present himself as a Christian so long and so thoroughly. I think you just like to say it because you think it will scare people.

I know it scares ME. I hope that I am wrong, especially if he wins. I am not trying to scare anyone, I just want everyone to see all sides. No preconceptions either. I have sat down and had serious discussions with those of the Muslim faith to gain understanding of the religion. I cannot say the same of Athiests. The opportunity just really hasn't ever presented itself. I have to go by what I have read here and there.

The ballot has always been messy. Think about this for a second. When some documentary talks about JFK, within the first 5 sentences the word CATHOLIC is thrown in there. Half the reason JFK was voted for was because he was a "good Catholic boy" Religion plays a MAJOR part of U.S. politics, and it doesn't matter what side you are on. How do you think he would have decided on abortion ?

A "sleeper" Muslim would definately play the part as long as it was a means to an end, it would be the only realistic chance he/she would have at gaining the Presidency. Once the end is fulfilled, what happens, you gonna impeach Obama because he lied about his Muslim faith while running for office? I don't vote for whose religion is more closely related to my own, I just want to be damn sure who I am getting, when I vote.

[memebag]

A "sleeper" Muslim would definately play the part as long as it was a means to an end, it would be the only realistic chance he/she would have at gaining the Presidency.

So you're seriously entertaining the notion that Obama is a Muslim sleeper agent? (I ask because if you do, I want to make sure everyone else here knows you think that's possible.)

[west20th]

haha.. i read Sean Hannity is willing to send Obama's brother $1000 if someone can get him a proper address. I think thats equivalent to a decades salary or something.

yeahhh... we'll see who's the better brother keeper around here !!!

I'll take a bad brother over a man who cheats on his wife while she's in the hospital.

Note: Yes I know Edwards did that also as well as Newt. They're not running for president now.

[Mark F. Barnes]

I am pretty sure the founding fathers never envisioned April 12, 1861, however none the less it's part of the Constitution, and stands to this day. Everybody wants restrictions, hell there are restrictions. Hell let's put restrictions on the 1st Amendmant while your at it. That's it, nothing but Baptists allowed, because you or someone else has no use for Catholics. And shut down this forum because you have no right to speak your mind.

Take a close look, no eraser marks or multiple choice here. Live with it or move to France.

[westguy76]

I apologize for that. Let's not pretend we are angels though. Just a case of straight from the mind to the keyboard.

[ricco67]

So you're seriously entertaining the notion that Obama is a Muslim sleeper agent? (I ask because if you do, I want to make sure everyone else here knows you think that's possible.)

I have to admit that it IS a bit of a stretch.

As far as JFK goes, there was a big deal of his BEING Catholic to NOT vote for him. The same stupidity happened when they attacked Romney's Mormonism. (is that a word?)

[TJones]

So you're seriously entertaining the notion that Obama is a Muslim sleeper agent? (I ask because if you do, I want to make sure everyone else here knows you think that's possible.)

Nope, not entertaining it persay, more like, anything is possible. That is not on the top of the list of my worries though. I agree with Ricco, it is a stretch, just like forgetting what religion you are, that's a stretch.

[Highway6]

I'll take a bad brother over a man who cheats on his wife while she's in the hospital.

Note: Yes I know Edwards did that also as well as Newt. They're not running for president now.

I just think it takes a serious lack of judgment and brains to say a line like that is his nomination speech...

" It's that fundamental belief

[westguy76]

So you're seriously entertaining the notion that Obama is a Muslim sleeper agent? (I ask because if you do, I want to make sure everyone else here knows you think that's possible.)

What are we to believe Obama sat on his arse 20 years in Rev Wrights church, listening to that drivel for what? why? Because it was the place to be. Because he was trying to get into politics in the south side. I don't know the man's heart so I can't judge him in this matter. He has stated himself his family did not force religion on him, sent him to catholic and muslim school to get the best education? One of the tenants of christianity is to believe in the one true God.

intolerance is not a dirty word.

[west20th]

I just think it takes a serious lack of judgment and brains to say a line like that is his nomination speech...

" It's that fundamental belief

[Highway6]

Ahh...so Obama needs to held accountable for his "BS".

http://www.alternet.org/election08/97813/e...9;s_big_speech/

Guess McCain is free to sling as much BS as possible. Below is the quote from the above link. IMO the most troubling McCain BS:

No, I'l very much give you that McCain probably spews equal B.S. to Obama.. after all, they are both politicians.

BUT...

Normal political B.S. is done at the policy level.... much harder to detect.

Obamas's brother gaffe though... thats B.S. at the personal/character level...... anyone and everyone can smell that one.

[sevfiv]

Here's the CNN story on George Obama:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/22/bts.obama.brother/

[west20th]

No, I'l very much give you that McCain probably spews equal B.S. to Obama.. after all, they are both politicians.

BUT...

Normal political B.S. is done at the policy level.... much harder to detect.

Obamas's brother gaffe though... thats B.S. at the personal level...... anyone and everyone can smell that one.

So your saying McCain is better at slinging BS? He's less obvious and only slings political BS.

[Highway6]

Ahhhhhh.......so your saying McCain is better at slinging BS. He's less obvious and only slings political BS.

No.. i didnt say better. I said equal.

I am accepting that all politicians, in order to get elected, must b.s. people on their policy stances to some degree.

It's another thing altogether to b.s. who you are as a person. That is not the norm, nor necessary for politicians to get elected, and judging a candidate's character also matters at the voting booth.

On a personal level.. we all know who McCain is... good and bad.

[west20th]

No.. i didnt say better. I said equal.

I am accepting that all politicians, in order to get elected, must b.s. people on their policy stances to some degree.

It's another thing altogether to b.s. who you are as a person. That is not the norm, nor necessary for politicians to get elected, and judging a candidate's character also matters at the voting booth.

On a personal level.. we all know who McCain is... good and bad.

So McCain saying he is a "maverick" and "change candidate" isn't misrepresenting who he is as a person? That's who he was years ago. Since running for president this cycle he's changed every position that made him a "maverick". Now he just tows the GOP line. My point is you seem quick to judge Obama's integrity but McCain gets a pass. I think we can agree we have two flawed candidates, which is usually the case, and we choose the one who is less flawed.