2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[Mark F. Barnes]

You have to give her kudos for her ability to see 1000's of miles from eastern AK to the easternmost tip of Russia. I guess she also believes the earth is flat?

How else would someone like George W. Bush get elected?

Quit showing your ignorance while trying to be cute and belittle the lady. It's 72 miles from Wales AK to Naukan Russia. And if you want to take in consideration of Little Diomede and Big Diomede, the USA and Russia is only 2.4 miles apart technically. It's not 1000's of miles at it''s farthest points, so at least try and sound competent when making fun of someone who has managed to do something successful with their life. Geography 101

[Mark F. Barnes]

I don't consider any vote a throw away vote. Why do I have to choose either a Democrat or a Republican? Where is that the written law? Additionally, I do NOT consider Ralph Nader an idiot.

Nader supports a single payer national health insurance program. I do too.

Nader wants to adopt a carbon pullution tax to generate revenue and help us reduce carbon emissions. Sounds good to me.

Nader wants to adopt a Wall Street securities speculation tax. That sounds BRILLIANT right about now.

Nader wants to end corporate personhood within the judicial system. I agree.

Nader supports the National Initiative which brings TRUE democracy to the people. I fully support this idea.

Nader wants to reverse tort "deform" and bring justice back to consumers. Hard to argue with that unless you've fallen for the lobbyist spam.

Nader wants to open up political debates and end ballot obstructionism at the State level largely controlled by the Dems and Repubs. Why shouldn't alternative voices be heard?

In the end, while I do not agree with everything Nader stands for, I do TRUST him and KNOW that he is not profiting off of policy making like the other 99.99% of politicians.

The entire idea of a throw-away vote is another bi-product of the two party system that I simply don't buy.

Kink re-read my question, I never even insinuated that it was any kind of law, I just simply asked what you were trying to accomplish by voting for an idiot like Ralph Nadar? And you can think what you want about old Ralph, and I am not going to get in a pissing match over his pro's and con's, we both know he'll never be President, so why bother. You want to start a thread on Nadar, I might try to enlighten you of all the ignorant crap he's been responsible for in his worthless self serving life. You answered my original question good enough. Like I said Just Curious.

[RedScare]

Quit showing your ignorance while trying to be cute and belittle the lady. It's 72 miles from Wales AK to Naukan Russia. And if you want to take in consideration of Little Diomede and Big Diomede, the USA and Russia is only 2.4 miles apart technically. It's not 1000's of miles at it''s farthest points, so at least try and sound competent when making fun of someone who has managed to do something successful with their life. Geography 101

Sounds like someone didn't watch Saturday Night Live recently.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Not since Belushi died, not a real fan.

[sevfiv]

And you can think what you want about old Ralph, and I am not going to get in a pissing match over his pro's and con's, we both know he'll never be President, so why bother.

And with that attitude, that's why politics in America is dead and worthless.

You want to start a thread on Nadar, I might try to enlighten you of all the ignorant crap he's been responsible for in his worthless self serving life.

I'd be interested in hearing more about his worthless life. I have always been a fan of his ideas. Maybe a thread's in order.

[barracuda]

Quit showing your ignorance while trying to be cute and belittle the lady. It's 72 miles from Wales AK to Naukan Russia. And if you want to take in consideration of Little Diomede and Big Diomede, the USA and Russia is only 2.4 miles apart technically. It's not 1000's of miles at it''s farthest points, so at least try and sound competent when making fun of someone who has managed to do something successful with their life. Geography 101

True, but Juneau is in southeastern AK and much closer to Canada. It's a loooooooooong way from Russia.

And with that attitude, that's why politics in America is dead and worthless.

I think Ralph Nader is a great consumer advocate, but I would find it hard to support him for President. To me he seems about as authoritarian and strident as they come. He makes a great attack dog against corporate wrong-doers, but I don't think he has the diplomatic skills to be President.

Edited September 24, 2008 by barracuda

[KinkaidAlum]

Quit showing your ignorance while trying to be cute and belittle the lady. It's 72 miles from Wales AK to Naukan Russia. And if you want to take in consideration of Little Diomede and Big Diomede, the USA and Russia is only 2.4 miles apart technically. It's not 1000's of miles at it''s farthest points, so at least try and sound competent when making fun of someone who has managed to do something successful with their life. Geography 101

If Barracuda needs a Geography 101 class, then you need a remedial reading comprehension class.

Go back a re-read what was typed in that post. Here's a hint; Wales, AK is in far WESTERN Alaska...

[travelguy_73]

OK, I know it's the Onion and all, but I swear the Point opinion piece pretty much nails it, LOL.

http://www.theonion.com/content/point/poin...t_gov_palin_has

[DJ V Lawrence]

Quit showing your ignorance while trying to be cute and belittle the lady. It's 72 miles from Wales AK to Naukan Russia. And if you want to take in consideration of Little Diomede and Big Diomede, the USA and Russia is only 2.4 miles apart technically. It's not 1000's of miles at it''s farthest points, so at least try and sound competent when making fun of someone who has managed to do something successful with their life. Geography 101

Are you claiming that Palin is successful because she's far-sighted?

[Mark F. Barnes]

If Barracuda needs a Geography 101 class, then you need a remedial reading comprehension class.

Go back a re-read what was typed in that post. Here's a hint; Wales, AK is in far WESTERN Alaska...

My bad it's 1217 miles from Juneau AK to Nuakan, Russia

You two keep grasping at straws, see you at the polls.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Are you claiming that Palin is successful because she's far-sighted?

No I really have said very little about her, but since you bring it up, I will humor you.

Sarah Palin is successful because she is driven and quick on the uptake. She's successful because she's firm in her convictions and wears them on her sleeve. She's successful because of sitting around and bitching about it, she got off her ass and did something about it. People sit around here and try and pick her apart, just because they disagree with her, nothing new, those same idots do it with everyone they disagree with. But at the end of the day, they are still where they are and the object of their idiot attacks are still where they are.

Is Sarah Palin ready for Presidency, probably not, but she not running for President. You'd think she was, watching these campaigns. And the resolute whiners talking about when John McCain Dies, then what? That bridge will be crossed when the time somes. But I tell you this, she is as ready as Obama is and he is running for President, you don't have to wait on anyone to die for him to take the seat. Joe Biden? Everyone wants to talk about her being ready and they question her intellegence, hell Joe Biden had FDR as President in 1929 on TV talking about the crash on Wall Street the other day. Joe is high as a kite I guess. I guarantee you everytime Biden opens his mouth in front of a camera, Obama winces, waiting to the shoe to drop. Biden has cut his own throat with the media so many times over the years, you have to lose count.

If I had a choice, none of the people running would be in the white house, but that's not a choice I am given. The cards are dealt, and you have to make the best hand possible, with the cards you have. This recent time bomb that is ticking on Wall Street, just shows that both sides have foxes in the chicken coop. Red hit the nail on the head. Red and I dwell on oposite ends of the political spectrum however we have common ground in this statement.

True. When the advisors to BOTH candidates come from the same group that created the deregulated free-for-all that Wall Street financial markets had become, there is no rational basis for believing EITHER candidate will propose a workable solution to the mess. The only difference between the two candidates seems to be that one is hardly saying anything because he doesn't know how to fix it (Obama), and the other is proposing contradictory solutions to different groups because he doesn't know what he is talking about (McCain).

Hardly inspires confidence in the next 4 years.

I don't sit around and pick apart the short comings of Barak Obama, reason being the majority of it it is my opinion, which means nothing to anyone but me, and secondly, it's just not constructive. Who gets elected is yet to be seen, I do now feel certain Obama wishes he would have bit the bullet and chose Hillary as his running mate, because he would probably be a slam dunk from here out. His handlers bungled that one, but hey, he's got what he's got. His campaign was deperate to get some experience on the ticket, but they were just a little short sited on Biden. He had other options that would have done a lot better job, if he was determined to have experience on the ticket and not have to deal with Bill Clinton either. But all in all I think he probably regrets the choice he made.

Just for a laugh, I thought this was funny, poor Bill no wonder he screws around all the time.

[DJ V Lawrence]

BTW, I saw that Clinton video a couple days ago. Funny stuff

No I really have said very little about her, but since you bring it up, I will humor you.

Sarah Palin is successful because she is driven and quick on the uptake. She's successful because she's firm in her convictions and wears them on her sleeve. She's successful because of sitting around and bitching about it, she got off her ass and did something about it. People sit around here and try and pick her apart, just because they disagree with her, nothing new, those same idots do it with everyone they disagree with. But at the end of the day, they are still where they are and the object of their idiot attacks are still where they are.

Is Sarah Palin ready for Presidency, probably not, but she not running for President. You'd think she was, watching these campaigns. And the resolute whiners talking about when John McCain Dies, then what? That bridge will be crossed when the time somes. But I tell you this, she is as ready as Obama is and he is running for President, you don't have to wait on anyone to die for him to take the seat. Joe Biden? Everyone wants to talk about her being ready and they question her intellegence, hell Joe Biden had FDR as President in 1929 on TV talking about the crash on Wall Street the other day. Joe is high as a kite I guess. I guarantee you everytime Biden opens his mouth in front of a camera, Obama winces, waiting to the shoe to drop. Biden has cut his own throat with the media so many times over the years, you have to lose count.

I'm still calling myself undecided until the debates are over, but I'm simply not buying the "Palin is just as ready as Obama to be President" argument. To be a Vice Presidential candidate (Palin), you have to be hand-picked by the candidate that is representing that party. To be the Presidential candidate, you have to be the one the party picks as the best in the party to represent them, and for that to happen, you have to prove to be capable and experienced enough to win by winning multiple primaries along the way.

Palin prior to September was never in the national spotlight, and we're still learning who she is. We know McCain. Obama's been in the national spotlight since the 2004 DNC. We know Biden; not as much as we know McCain in my opinion, but Americans were probably more aware of Biden prior to his VP announcement than most other VP candidates in the past 20 years prior to their announcements.

If I had a choice, none of the people running would be in the white house, but that's not a choice I am given. The cards are dealt, and you have to make the best hand possible, with the cards you have.

I felt that McCain and Obama were the best choices each party could have made during the primaries. Who were you suggesting?

[Gary]

Rumor has it that Biden will step down on October 5th to make way for Hillary. Again, this is a "rumor".

[sevfiv]

^I had heard about that...

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/joebiden/...bersurprise.htm

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/bid...o-step-down.htm

[KinkaidAlum]

My bad it's 1217 miles from Juneau AK to Nuakan, Russia

You two keep grasping at straws, see you at the polls.

How am I grasping at straws?

It was JOHN McCAIN who first made the lame claim that Alaska's proximity to Russia lent Palin some foreign policy expertise. AND, it was Palin who dignified McCain's claim in the Gibson interview by talking about how the two are indeed "neighbors."

If that's all they've got, then YES, I do see a major problem with putting her on the ticket as the V.P. choice. You might as well just head on down to the Galleria and pick out the first woman you see at Neiman's because she'd have lived closer to Mexico than Palin ever did to Russia in Wasilla or Juneau and maybe that lucky woman with the overpriced items could fix our borders and immigration issues!

[Mark F. Barnes]

BTW, I saw that Clinton video a couple days ago. Funny stuff

I'm still calling myself undecided until the debates are over, but I'm simply not buying the "Palin is just as ready as Obama to be President" argument. To be a Vice Presidential candidate (Palin), you have to be hand-picked by the candidate that is representing that party. To be the Presidential candidate, you have to be the one the party picks as the best in the party to represent them, and for that to happen, you have to prove to be capable and experienced enough to win by winning multiple primaries along the way.

Palin prior to September was never in the national spotlight, and we're still learning who she is. We know McCain. Obama's been in the national spotlight since the 2004 DNC. We know Biden; not as much as we know McCain in my opinion, but Americans were probably more aware of Biden prior to his VP announcement than most other VP candidates in the past 20 years prior to their announcements.

I felt that McCain and Obama were the best choices each party could have made during the primaries. Who were you suggesting?

I would be first in line to vote for a Powell/Thompson ticket, or really anybody Colin Powell wanted to choose to run with. I am and always will be a fan of Colin Powell. But he wasn't an option so I am stuck trying to go all in with an weak pair, on either side.

I have one thing that sticks in my crawl about McCain that still nags at me. Don't get me wrong, he has given plenty to his country and I can and will always respect that. But when he was called upon and asked if he would care to be Vice President in 2004, he turned it down saying he wasn't there to play second fiddle. That to me was an all out act of selfishness that I can't seem to pass on and let go. I have discussed this before in a previous post. For someone who claims to be an all out patriot to his country, his country asked for his help and he turned them down. That just still to this days bothers me.

I have also discussed some things I saw in Obama that I liked in this thread months back, but he's changed stances and fell into the same ole flip flop, that he swore to never be. Not saying the rest of them aren't flip flopping as well, because they are, it's being a typical politician. That's what Obama wasn't going to be, but has turned out to be so. He's surrounded himself with a crooked bunch of advisers, that I wouldn't trust with the tip jar at a seedy south-side bar. He's in the deep end of the pool and I think that he's made some bad choices on who he chose for lifeguards.

So I am caught between a rock and a hard place....Like Red said, it doesn't look promising for the next four years.

[DJ V Lawrence]

How am I grasping at straws?

It was JOHN McCAIN who first made the lame claim that Alaska's proximity to Russia lent Palin some foreign policy expertise. AND, it was Palin who dignified McCain's claim in the Gibson interview by talking about how the two are indeed "neighbors."

If that's all they've got, then YES, I do see a major problem with putting her on the ticket as the V.P. choice. You might as well just head on down to the Galleria and pick out the first woman you see at Neiman's because she'd have lived closer to Mexico than Palin ever did to Russia in Wasilla or Juneau and maybe that lucky woman with the overpriced items could fix our borders and immigration issues!

BTW, there's something else I'm not sure if anyone's asked or answered yet, and for anyone from any political party to answer, because this doesn't make sense.

When Sarah Palin went to Mexico and Canada (the two countries said to be the only two Palin visited prior to the nomination), was it for ambassador-work, for business, or for vacation? And if the answer were a vacation or a trip where she didn't meet any foreign leaders to talk about their issues, how could that count as a trip that would give her "foreign policy experience" that both sides are bringing up?

And when she went to Kuwait or Germany (Iraq doesn't count because she was on the border and never went into Iraq, and Ireland doesn't count because she didn't leave the airport), did she meet any leaders there? I would count both trips as legit for political claim because of the troops, but if those are the only two that count as such, why would it be wrong to question Palin's experience after being thrust into VP candidate spot less than three months before the General Election, and with less than one percent of the U.S. population capable of recognizing her name prior to McCain's VP announcement?

And (to any McCain supporter only), do you believe this is one legitimate reason to question McCain's judgement?

(Of course, Palin will have a chance to state her party's case at the VP debate. But until then, I'm just asking because of what I do/don't know so far)

[Jeebus]

Is Sarah Palin ready for Presidency, probably not, but she not running for President. You'd think she was, watching these campaigns. And the resolute whiners talking about when John McCain Dies, then what? That bridge will be crossed when the time somes. But I tell you this, she is as ready as Obama is and he is running for President, you don't have to wait on anyone to die for him to take the seat. Joe Biden? Everyone wants to talk about her being ready and they question her intellegence, hell Joe Biden had FDR as President in 1929 on TV talking about the crash on Wall Street the other day. Joe is high as a kite I guess. I guarantee you everytime Biden opens his mouth in front of a camera, Obama winces, waiting to the shoe to drop. Biden has cut his own throat with the media so many times over the years, you have to lose count.

I wanted to be the first to post on this, this morning - but a certain 3 year old just had to go to pre-school..

Anyway, this is what Biden said on the CBS evening news last night: (source)

And last night, in an interview with

[west20th]

Friday's debate may be canceled.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/us/polit...5mccain.html?hp

[Gary]

Anyway, this is what Biden said on the CBS evening news last night: (source)

And last night, in an interview with

[RedScare]

That is simply brutal, and scary.

I am quite sure that you, Mark and Jeebus were just as brutalized and scared when John McCain made his myriad of misstatements on Iraq, Iran, al Qaeda, Sunnis, Shia, and Czechoslovakia. When I have the time, I'll be sure to go back through this thread to find all of the examples of you three's equal opportunity outrage.

[KinkaidAlum]

Biden certainly had a big mistake.

He's certainly never been charged with being immune from stupid comments.

That said, he was talking about something that happened nearly 80 years ago. AND, I'd think that modern day Republicans would be somewhat happy in what he got wrong. Do you REALLY want to remind Americans that it was a Republican (Hoover) that was in office when the Great Depression hit but it took a Democrat (FDR) to lead us out of it?

Additionally, I'd hardly call a V.P. candidate mixing up economic history from 80 years ago nearly as scary as a current Presidential candidate thinking that Iraq and Pakistan share a border.

And to hear the McCain is suspending his campaign and wanting to postpone the first presidential debate because he wants to rush back to D.C. to fix this economic clustermuck is downright laughable. I am sure this has nothing with the latest figures such as;

1) Obama taking a 9% lead

2) Obama polling very well in Virginia as of yesterday

3) Palin's free fall in favorable ratings (lost nearly 18%)

4) Obama's campaign bringing in nearly twice as much cash last month as McCain's

And, I know McCain said the fundamentals of the economy were strong and all just last week, but does he really think this came up out of the blue? What about all of the votes over the past year that he's missed?

[Trae]

David Letterman today:

David Letterman tells audience that McCain called him today to tell him he had to rush back to DC to deal with the economy.

Then in the middle of the taping Dave got word that McCain was, in fact just down the street being interviewed by Katie Couric. Dave even cut over to the live video of the interview, and said, "Hey Senator, can I give you a ride home?"

Earlier in the show, Dave kept saying, "You don't suspend your campaign. This doesn't smell right. This isn't the way a tested hero behaves." And he joked: "I think someone's putting something in his metamucil."

"He can't run the campaign because the economy is cratering? Fine, put in your second string quarterback, Sara Palin. Where is she?"

"What are you going to do if you're elected and things get tough? Suspend being president? We've got a guy like that now!"

[DJ V Lawrence]

I understand Letterman's stance on how he'd feel about McCain suddenly delaying his Late Show appearance, but to be fair, it's a comedy show and Letterman was snubbed for a news show appearance. Hopefully that gets settled sometime before the election peacefully.

The debate though. Damn. Here's the Chronicle article on McCain's delay announcement. When it was mentioned earlier on HAIF, I thought it was just a joke article from the NY Times. I didn't think either candidate would actually do something like that. I really wanted to hear what both candidates had to say in debate-format on the economic crisis before anything was passed so both people could stop giving the "our economy will be fine" rhetoric, and would start giving the "these people messed up here, here, and here, and these parts of the new proposal will not work and have to be tweaked so we avoid anything getting worse". THEN after that, have both candidates get the 411 from the President.

The problem here is that it does look much more like a political move than a "good for the country" move in my opinion. What McCain's basically trying to say is that (if I'm inaccurate here, let me know) if Obama doesn't follow McCain by suspending his campaign and go to Washington to meet with President Bush, his priorities are not on fixing the economy. But if Obama were to do just that, he would hurt his presidential chances more by following his rival's lead and becoming associated with a President with a really low approval rating and on the other side of the aisle.

What happens if the economy doesn't improve within the next 41 days? Delay all the debates and campaigning until November? We need a national assessment. Congress can do without Obama and McCain. They're running for President. I'm sure they would understand, and the bills will pass/fail regardless. Just tell Palin and Biden to check it out on Friday while y'all go to DC on Monday.

[Jeebus]

When I have the time..

You always make this excuse when you have no quick rebuttal. Wouldn't it just be better to say nothing than to say you have nothing?

Besides.. You have no power, what else could possibly be taking up your time?

EDIT: Thinking about it.. Even if McCain has said some incorrect things about "Iraq, Iran, al Qaeda, Sunnis, Shia, and Czechoslovakia" as you quoted, how could that possibly be worse than not knowing your own country's history?

Edited September 25, 2008 by Jeebus

[RedScare]

You always make this excuse when you have no quick rebuttal. Wouldn't it just be better to say nothing than to say you have nothing?

Besides.. You have no power, what else could possibly be taking up your time?

Clearly, sarcasm is not your long suit.

EDIT TO YOUR EDIT: When you claim war and foreign policy as your strong suit, well, you do the math.

Edited September 25, 2008 by RedScare

[Jeebus]

David Letterman:

"He can't run the campaign because the economy is cratering? Fine, put in your second string quarterback, Sara Palin. Where is she?"

"What are you going to do if you're elected and things get tough? Suspend being president? We've got a guy like that now!"

It sounds like McCain is more worried about the state of our economy rather than playing politics.

FYI: Letterman is bitter that a lesser comedian took his show. He lost his funny years ago.

[BryanS]

I would be first in line to vote for a Powell/Thompson ticket, or really anybody Colin Powell wanted to choose to run with. I am and always will be a fan of Colin Powell. But he wasn't an option so I am stuck trying to go all in with an weak pair, on either side.

You do realize that he has indirectly endorsed Obama, right? And before the election... I wouldn't be surprised to see him directly endorse Obama...

[DJ V Lawrence]

FYI: Letterman is bitter that a lesser comedian took his show.

Are you referring to Jay Leno or Katie Couric?

[BryanS]

It sounds like McCain is more worried about the state of our economy rather than playing politics.

FYI: Letterman is bitter that a lesser comedian took his show. He lost his funny years ago.

Right. So he plays politics by running to DC, his nest... suggests that this Friday's debate be deferred until next week - bumping the VP debate! The man (and the woman) are running scared! - ducking and hiding! Hey McCain - ENGAGE the enemy! Grow a pair! You really can multi-task if you try... take an extra nap, if needed...

EDIT: And more direct... He's playing politics because he's NOT on any of the committees that are currently hammering out the deal. Your services are not needed, sir! HE BRINGS NOTHING to the table, other than hot air.

Edited September 25, 2008 by BryanS