2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[RedScare]

It sounds like McCain is more worried about the state of our economy rather than playing politics.

Coming from a guy who said this...

But he also admitted that, "the issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should." Adding, "I've got [former Fed Chairman Alan] Greenspan's book."

...I'm not sure I WANT McCain worried about the economy.

[barracuda]

It sounds like McCain is more worried about the state of our economy rather than playing politics.

It sounds to me like McCain doesn't know anything about the economy, so he's trying to buy some time so he can study up before the big debate. That's playing politics IMO.

It's not like anyone in the Senate is actually working on bills at 9PM on a Friday. And if it's so important, he should have been working on the issue all throughout the last week instead of emphasizing that "the economy is fundamentally strong" and then changing his mind several times.

[Mark F. Barnes]

You do realize that he has indirectly endorsed Obama, right? And before the election... I wouldn't be surprised to see him directly endorse Obama...

No I don't "realize". How do you indirectly endorse some one? Either you do or you don't. He's not endorsed any candidate in this election. The media has speculated is all along (I guess that's what you mean by indirectly), most likely due to his ethnic background. The media was even saying he was going to be a speaker at the DNC, and of course we know he was not. He donated the maximum amount to McCain's campaign, It could be assumed assume out of party loyalty, but not donating a dime to Obama says anything but an endorsement, more than anything. But he has not directly or indirectly endorsed anyone. And I don't think he will either.

He did endorsed and served under George W. Bush, so what? I don't vote for people because of who endorses them.

I personally endorse Jeb Hensarling myself. I have known, and been friends with Jeb, his entire life, I know his entire family, they are good folk from the Brazos Valley, his grandmother (RIP) was my 5th grade math teacher, and later was a fine Justice of the Peace after she retired from teaching. Jeb is as honest person as I've ever known. Don't know if he'll ever run for the top spot, but would not be surprised by it. He knows he can count on, and has received maximum donations from me in the past and can expect the same, and financial backing from my company if he ever does run for President.

[TJones]

It sounds to me like McCain doesn't know anything about the economy, so he's trying to buy some time so he can study up before the big debate. That's playing politics IMO.

It's not like anyone in the Senate is actually working on bills at 9PM on a Friday. And if it's so important, he should have been working on the issue all throughout the last week instead of emphasizing that "the economy is fundamentally strong" and then changing his mind several times.

Yet, McCain had enough insite to warn EVERYONE 3 years ago that this country was heading in this EXACT direction we are in today. How's that for "not knowing anything about the economy" ?

Let me get this right 'Cuda, staying on the campaign trail, instead of going to work in Washington, where your actual job is, to try and get something done, is more important than trying to come to a conclusion on fixing the economy ?

[KinkaidAlum]

Country First?

McCain missed FOUR HUNDRED AND TWELVE votes in the U.S. Senate since January 4th, 2007. That's 64.1% of ALL votes. He's numero uno when it comes to missing votes by a wide margin.

#2 on the list is Tim Johnson (D of South Dakota). Of course, Mr. Johnson had a brain hemorrage in December of 2006 and needed months for recovery time. Still, he only missed 311 votes, a full 101 less than McCain.

To be fair, Obama and Clinton come in at #3 and #4 but both managed to vote on issues over one hundred more times than Senator McCain.

[west20th]

Yet, McCain had enough insite to warn EVERYONE 3 years ago that this country was heading in this EXACT direction we are in today. How's that for "not knowing anything about the economy" ?

Let me get this right 'Cuda, staying on the campaign trail, instead of going to work in Washington, where your actual job is, to try and get something done, is more important than trying to come to a conclusion on fixing the economy ?

What was that warning exactly?

[KinkaidAlum]

What was that warning exactly?

I'd be interested to hear what McCain's warning was in 2005 about the economy because I am fairly certain he's changed his mind since then in order to get elected. Heck, he's even stated that he wouldn't vote for bills he authored!

[ricco67]

I'd be interested to hear what McCain's warning was in 2005 about the economy because I am fairly certain he's changed his mind since then in order to get elected. Heck, he's even stated that he wouldn't vote for bills he authored!

actually, I can back up TJ on this one, I remember his saying it several years ago, unfortunately, I don't remember if it was on Beck or meet the press.

McCain has been mocked by the Republican Party for years for not towing the line.

As far as the "America First", I can't say much as far as the votes for, but at least he didn't just show up and say "present" while casting.

Just remember, he has gone to the Democrats on several occasions against the republicans on at least a couple of issues I am aware of.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Let me get this right 'Cuda, staying on the campaign trail, instead of going to work in Washington, where your actual job is, to try and get something done, is more important than trying to come to a conclusion on fixing the economy ?

You can't be serious. Being President is bigger than being a Senator. I agree with McCain in terms of suspending the campaign itself (like attack ads, appearances, stuff like that), and I think Obama should have done that as well at least for Thursday, but the economy is no excuse for delaying ANY of the debates that will decide which of these two men will be leading this country while that same jacked up economy is going to need some long term planning.

Now this really is starting to smell like fish. I just heard on CNN (I'm not making this up), that the McCain campaign now wants to delay the VP debate as well. The rumor has it that they want to replace that debate with the Presidential one. But Joe Biden likely would be available to attend, and Sarah Palin isn't even in Congress. She's a govenor. She wouldn't have anything in Washington holding her back. The hell is this?

I also agree with Bush in inviting both candidates to give both an idea as to what's going on from the President's point of view, but the debates have no reason to not go on.

[KinkaidAlum]

After watching Palin in her "interviews" I could see why the republicans would want to cancel the VP debates.

Also, it is interesting to note that debates were held during D-Day in World War II as well as during Sherman's advance on Atlanta during the Civil War! To say that we can't hold debates because we need to bailout Wall Street is redonkulous. It's even funnier coming from the "free market" party.

[Mark F. Barnes]

I'd be interested to hear what McCain's warning was in 2005 about the economy because I am fairly certain he's changed his mind since then in order to get elected. Heck, he's even stated that he wouldn't vote for bills he authored!

Okay Kinky here you go, in summary, the bill, S. 190, of which John McCain was one of only four co-authors (Sen. Obama being none of the other three), Sen. Charles Hagel [R-NE] Cosponsors Sen. Elizabeth Dole [R-NC] Sen. John McCain [R-AZ] Sen. John Sununu [R-NH], this bill proposed to amend the Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act of 1992 to establish an independent Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Agency which would have authority over the Federal Home Loan Bank Finance Corporation, the Federal Home Loan Banks, the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae), and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac).

Bill S. 190

And this bill was blocked by the Democrats in the Senate at it's initial introduction. It was never even allowed to the floor for a vote. And on the floor of the Senate on May 25, 2006 John McCain made the following statement.

McCain's Speech from May 2006

Mr. McCAIN. Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae

[Highway6]

Also, it is interesting to note that debates were held during D-Day in World War II as well as during Sherman's advance on Atlanta during the Civil War! To say that we can't hold debates because we need to bailout Wall Street is redonkulous. It's even funnier coming from the "free market" party.

Minus the word "redonkulous", It was more interesting when I heard Paul Begala say the exact same thing on Cnn's AC360 last night.

[barracuda]

Yet, McCain had enough insite to warn EVERYONE 3 years ago that this country was heading in this EXACT direction we are in today. How's that for "not knowing anything about the economy" ?

Let me get this right 'Cuda, staying on the campaign trail, instead of going to work in Washington, where your actual job is, to try and get something done, is more important than trying to come to a conclusion on fixing the economy ?

What exactly did McCain say about the economy that insightful was 3 years ago? I'm surprised, considering he's been a champion of deregulation. I'm also surprised since McCain looks to Phil Gramm for financial advice. That's the same Phil Gramm that slipped deregulation into the 2000 omnibus bill, thus exempting from regulatory oversight the trading of energy, which was key to the collapse of Enron. The same bill also prevented the SEC and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission from regulating swaps, helping lead to the sub-prime meltdown.

Based on this and McCain's public acknowledgement that he knows very little about the economy, it's hard to believe McCain ever said anything prescient about the economy.

And yes, you don't have to stop a campaign every time there's a crisis. There are better qualified people already working on the issue.

That said, I think it's was pretty funny how Letterman handled the McCain diss last night...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/24/j...e_n_128998.html

Edited September 25, 2008 by barracuda

[barracuda]

And on the floor of the Senate on May 25, 2006 John McCain made the following statement.

Good find. Oh, how I miss the McCain of 2006.

[TJones]

What was that warning exactly?

I am done spoonfeeding you people all the right info. Go look it up on your idiot box you are looking at right now.

Besides Mark has already put it up for you to read.

I will change insight to the FORESIGHT of McCain.

Edited September 25, 2008 by TJones

[TJones]

Minus the word "redonkulous", It was more interesting when I heard Paul Begala say the exact same thing on Cnn's AC360 last night.

D'oh !!!

[west20th]

I am done spoonfeeding you people all the right info. Go look it up on your idiot box you are looking at right now.

Besides Mark has already put it up for you to read.

I will change insight to the FORESIGHT of McCain.

Soooorry. What a grouch! All this from someone who is always aking for links.

[barracuda]

Colbert asks Jon Stewart to join him by suspending his show due to the economic crisis:

http://blog.indecision2008.com/2008/09/25/...ix-the-economy/

[RedScare]

How's that for "not knowing anything about the economy" ?

"the issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should." Adding, "I've got [former Fed Chairman Alan] Greenspan's book."

I think I will defer to Sen. McCain's words on that.

I must admit though, that a distinguished member of the 'Keating Five' probably DOES know more about financial and banking bailouts than Senator Obama.

Edited September 25, 2008 by RedScare

[KinkaidAlum]

That was actually a great find by Mark. It is on almost every conservative blog website right now.

The funny thing about a rush to put things on politcal blogs is that problems can later arise like;

The 109th Congress had a small REPUBLICAN majority so the Dems couldn't have killed it on their own.

The 109th Congress had Richard Shelby (R-Alabama) as the Chairman of the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs. It never made it out of the committee despite there being 11 Republican members there to just 9 for the Dems.

The bill actually called for MORE government deregulation rather than less! The bill's fine print sought to transfer any remaining oversight from the federal government to an independent agency. It's all there for anyone to read in the link Mark himself provided.

Additionally, this bill came back in 2007 at the start of the 110th Congress. It was reintroduced on April 12,2007. Funny thing is, McCain was no longer a co-sponsor.

Edited September 25, 2008 by KinkaidAlum

[Subdude]

I normally hate to get involved in these things, but the UK papers today were headlining a story that there is a youtube video of Palin receiving blessings for protection against witchcraft. Needless to say there was more than a bit of discussion about this one. Me, I've never given much thought to the threat of witchcraft, but maybe I should start!

Video shows Palin in anti-witchcraft prayer

A video has emerged showing Sarah Palin playing a central role in a church service in Alaska in which witchcraft is denounced.

Thomas Muthee, a Kenyan who is a regular preacher at Palin's local Pentecostal church in Wasilla, made a passionate plea to defeat witchcraft and other supposed enemies of Palin during a sermon three years ago.

..In a video that emerged last week Palin, in a speech to the church on June 8, thanked Muthee for his help in getting her elected governor. She said his invocation was "very, very powerful".

And the link..

[memebag]

I normally hate to get involved in these things, but the UK papers today were headlining a story that there is a youtube video of Palin receiving blessings for protection against witchcraft. Needless to say there was more than a bit of discussion about this one. Me, I've never given much thought to the threat of witchcraft, but maybe I should start!

I think you're on to something. It could be witchcraft that's keeping all of us from being vice president.

[RedScare]

I think you're on to something. It could be witchcraft that's keeping all of us from being vice president.

So, THAT'S what's been holding me back.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I think you're on to something. It could be witchcraft that's keeping all of us from being vice president.

Well poke a needle in my doll and call me Quayle...

[Mark F. Barnes]

That was actually a great find by Mark. It is on almost every conservative blog website right now.

The funny thing about a rush to put things on politcal blogs is that problems can later arise like;

The 109th Congress had a small REPUBLICAN majority so the Dems couldn't have killed it on their own.

The 109th Congress had Richard Shelby (R-Alabama) as the Chairman of the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs. It never made it out of the committee despite there being 11 Republican members there to just 9 for the Dems.

The bill actually called for MORE government deregulation rather than less! The bill's fine print sought to transfer any remaining oversight from the federal government to an independent agency. It's all there for anyone to read in the link Mark himself provided.

Additionally, this bill came back in 2007 at the start of the 110th Congress. It was reintroduced on April 12,2007. Funny thing is, McCain was no longer a co-sponsor.

It was filibustered by the 109th

A filibuster, or "talking out a bill", is a form of obstruction in a legislature or other decision-making body. An attempt is made to infinitely extend debate upon a proposal in order to delay the progress or completely prevent a vote on the proposal taking place. Senate rules permit a senator, or a series of senators, to speak for as long as they wish and on any topic they choose, unless a supermajority of three-fifths of the Senate (60 Senators, if all 100 seats are filled) brings debate to a close by invoking cloture.

Having a minor majority cannot prevent a filibuster, and that's why it died on the vine.

When it was re-introduced, it had been so altered and twisted he refused to sponsor it, at it's currrent form.

Here's my thinking, most Major finacial institutions have a lot of reporting and accountability, was more regulation needed? Considering Freddie and Fannie did not have to report like regular private entities... yes. So what is the big thing about having to be accountable? It's only a problem unless you are stealing.

[TJones]

I will give Jon Stewart some kudos. He recently shot Biden down, twice in one show. Once about Joe's "stock market crash" soundbite, and again when he showed a clip of Joe chastizing Obama about gun control. Funny thing was Joe was talking about Obama is "...not about to take away my Baretta Shotguns !!!" They cut back to Jon, and Jon tries to make a point that "a Baretta is a handgun and NOT a shotgun." Jon.........although I appreciate your attempt to make Biden look like a goof, you made yourself look more like a goof by not doing the proper homework.

west20th, I have probably asked for links to about 3 statements while on this forum the past 3 years, and that was only after I could not find anything on the subject myself. So, I don't know where you come from with that statement. I am not being a grouch, I am just being right. Besides, nobody ever bothers to read my links, so what's the use ?

[RedScare]

It was filibustered by the 109th

A filibuster, or "talking out a bill", is a form of obstruction in a legislature or other decision-making body. An attempt is made to infinitely extend debate upon a proposal in order to delay the progress or completely prevent a vote on the proposal taking place. Senate rules permit a senator, or a series of senators, to speak for as long as they wish and on any topic they choose, unless a supermajority of three-fifths of the Senate (60 Senators, if all 100 seats are filled) brings debate to a close by invoking cloture.

Having a minor majority cannot prevent a filibuster, and that's why it died on the vine.

When it was re-introduced, it had been so altered and twisted he refused to sponsor it, at it's currrent form.

Here's my thinking, most Major finacial institutions have a lot of reporting and accountability, was more regulation needed? Considering Freddie and Fannie did not have to report like regular private entities... yes. So what is the big thing about having to be accountable? It's only a problem unless you are stealing.

Just so everyone is clear, Mark, are you arguing that McCain actually is an expert on economic and financial markets? Or is this an example that the sun even shines on a dog's ass occasionally?

I am not being a grouch, I am just being right. Besides, nobody ever bothers to read my links, so what's the use ?

If you'd quit linking worldnetdaily and the freerepublic, we'd start reading them.

[TJones]

Just so everyone is clear, Mark, are you arguing that McCain actually is an expert on economic and financial markets? Or is this an example that the sun even shines on a dog's ass occasionally?

Good point, perhaps the sun has shined again, or perhaps he is down playing exactly how much he knows about economic affairs ? Someone had ahold of his ear if McCain didn't come up with the bill. I find it hilarious that Dodd is trying to take credit for what McCain had already thrown out there.

Just so everyone is clear, Mark, are you arguing that McCain actually is an expert on economic and financial markets? Or is this an example that the sun even shines on a dog's ass occasionally?

If you'd quit linking worldnetdaily and the freerepublic, we'd start reading them.

Oh, I forgot, if it isn't CNN or AirAmerica.com it ain't worth a damn, right ? I will try to post more LA Times and NYTimes for you more sensitive viewers.

[RedScare]

Good point, perhaps the sun has shined again, or perhaps he is down playing exactly how much he knows about economic affairs ? Someone had ahold of his ear if McCain didn't come up with the bill. I find it hilarious that Dodd is trying to take credit for what McCain had already thrown out there.

Umm...I believe his name is Phil Gramm. Is that who you want as your new Treasury Secretary?

But, seriously, what is you guys' point? That McCain knows how to solve the financial crisis, just because he predicted a bubble? Big deal. I predicted it too. I also predicted the tech stock crash. It isn't hard to do when the increases are out of all relation to historical trends. That doesn't mean I know how to solve the problem, or even that it can be solved. So quit dancing around the issue. Are you guys claiming McCain has economic expertise or not? Because if you are, then THAT is something we can debate.

Edited September 25, 2008 by RedScare

[Mark F. Barnes]

Just so everyone is clear, Mark, are you arguing that McCain actually is an expert on economic and financial markets? Or is this an example that the sun even shines on a dog's ass occasionally?

If you'd quit linking worldnetdaily and the freerepublic, we'd start reading them.

Not claiming McCain is an expert on anything. But just putting it out there that he had made an effort in the past to address this very issue that we are dealing with today. TJ brought it up, and someone called him on it, and you know I had to get my boys back, that's how we roll Red. As long as TJ leaves the glue in the drawer, I'm there for him. Got to watch out for those kids from the short bus you know.

Now the latest on good ole Lyin' Joe Biden.

Okay he got a pass the other day on the FDR gaffe, but yesterday he said this during his foreign policy speech.