2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[Highway6]

Uh...McCain flat out said he wasn't going to the debate.

Thats so two hours ago... He's going.

[memebag]

I just read this article: The next meltdown was political

Frank, a gruff and rumpled Democrat from Massachusetts, demanded to know which of two competing financial rescue plans Republican presidential nominee John McCain supported. With Bush, Congress's top leaders and McCain's Democratic opponent, Barack Obama, watching intently, McCain declined to say, according to one person who was present and others briefed by attendees.

Pelosi and other Democrats had let Obama do most of the talking for their side, but McCain was mostly silent, participants said. At one point, according to two officials, McCain expressed support for the House GOP critics of the Bush plan. That ignited Frank's sharp question to him.

So it sounds like McCain cancelled the debate and "rushed" back to DC so he could gum up the bailout. Now that his job is done, he's free to de-cancel the debate.

Classic.

[20thStDad]

So...exciting debates so far. might as well just put a donkey and an elephant up there, they are taking their flash cards well so far. Eh, a little personal-ity coming through. I think they both sound like leaders at least. Vice presidential debates will probably not deliver that much.

[N Judah]

This debate is much better than the debates of the past two elections. They both seem very D.C.-savvy.

I think they're both correct to not give a straightforward opinion on the financial mess. A plan will be put into action by the time 2009 rolls around. Until then, it's not really their problem.

Edited September 27, 2008 by N Judah

[sevfiv]

I'm sorry, but that was yawnfest 2008 (I know, surprise!)

[DJ V Lawrence]

This debate is much better than the debates of the past two elections. They both seem very D.C.-savvy.

I think they're both correct to not give a straightforward opinion on the financial mess. A plan will be put into action by the time 2009 rolls around. Until then, it's not really their problem.

I agree. This debate was one of the most productive ever in terms of both candidates giving a clear view as to where they stand on the issues. I consider this debate to be a virtual tie. I also felt that McCain had a lot more to lose due to the question prior to the debate as if the debate would happen, but he held his ground well, made his agenda presentable, and did an excellent job at naming names he's met and locations that add to his resume and stances.

Neither candidate won after tonight, but I think the boxing ring's been built for the next few debates.

---------------------------------------------

I do predict that the Biden/Palin debate will be one of, if not, the most influential Vice Presidential debate in US history. Palin's been doing a pretty bad job so far in terms television interviews and not enough Sunday morning appearances, and Biden's basically in a re-introduction mode because he simply hasn't had nearly as much momentum since the DNC as Palin has in the RNC. My prediction is that there's very little chance of a tie, and both Palin and Biden will come out swinging against each other much more than Obama and McCain did tonight.

[RedScare]

I was hoping McCain would tell us what he thinks of earmarks.

[KinkaidAlum]

I was hoping McCain would tell us what he thinks of earmarks.

LOL. Or that he was a prisoner!

The debate was fine. Neither man went too far from their talking points so if you've been paying any attention at all, you most likely learned nothing.

I just finished watching Bill Maher. One of the folks on his panel tonight was Nader. Say what you want about the man, but it sure would have been interesting to hear a truly alternative voice tonight in Oxford. We've got to break the DemRep stranglehold on our society.

[Trae]

Thats so two hours ago... He's going.

I was talking about TJONES, first line, when he said "you cry when McCain says he may need to suspend a debate". It wasn't directed at you anyway, so...

[editor]

Discuss the candidates, not the HAIFers. No one on this forum is running for president.

[RedScare]

I came away from this debate convinced that John McCain wouldn't know what the economy was if it slapped him in the face. After sitting in DC without uttering a word, and mumbling without supporting ANY of the bailout plans, he then shows up at the debate and does more of the same. Further, he opposes every economic stimulus every known to work. It is a well known and time tested theory of economics that increased government spending spurs the economy. It also runs up the deficit, but in tough economic times, you can only solve one of these two ills. McCain, unsure of what to say, trots out his usual tirade against earmarks. That is all well and good, but that $18 Billion in earmarks actually acts as an economic stimulus. So would increased funding for roads, bridges, highways and public transit. So, what does McCain do? He surprises everyone in the room by declaring he would institute a spending freeze on all domestic spending!

Freezing domestic spending would slow the economy even more. The bailout, by the way, would be domestic spending. Does he propose to stop that too? For all the carping about Obama's spending wish list, one thing it would do is spur the economy. So, pick your poison. Do you want an economy with increased government spending or an economic implosion to go with that earmark free budget?

[N Judah]

John McCain wants our corporate taxes to be like Ireland's.

Ireland is officially the first Eurozone economy to go into recession.

[sarahiki]

So, what does McCain do? He surprises everyone in the room by declaring he would institute a spending freeze on all domestic spending!

I thought the comment about freezing non-defense spending was classic McCain... the maverick answer, showing he's not afraid to do something politically dangerous to solve a problem. Unfortunately, like so many of his maverick moves, it's not well though out. Obama pointed out that programs like early childhood education, which should be expanded, would be frozen. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Everyone would be furious to find that the things they care about (Medicaid, education, highways, etc.) are not being adequately funded. A more carefully considered, thoughtful solution is needed. It's increasingly obvious that that's not McCain style of decision making. I think we should be really concerned about that.

Edited September 28, 2008 by sarahiki

[barracuda]

I thought the debate was good and both candidates held their ground well. I did find McCain a bit condescending though. How many times can you claim your opponent doesn't understand something before you sound like a really broken record?

The best political coverage of the week has to be SNL's spoof of the Sarah Palin interview. It's gotta be the funniest interview spoof ever!

http://rawstory.com/rawreplay/?p=2021

[HtownWxBoy]

The latest daily Gallup Poll now has Obama up 50% to 42% over McCain... if the current trends continue Obama will definitely win this election. The excitement over Sarah Palin has diminished greatly... some conservatives are now even saying she should bow out b/c she was obviously not a good choice for V.P. candidate. The thought of her being second in line for the Presidency scares the heck out of me.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Yeah well all those numbers mean squat right now. If Palin does well in the debate against Biden, or rather if Biden implodes or gaffes himself to death, you will see a 10%-15% swing, perhaps more. The few points Obama gained after their debate, will be minute compared to the swing of this next debate. You'd think she was running for frigging President, the way the numbers swing on her more than McCain. The numbers are so polarized right now on three major issues. She hasn't been in the pit yet. If she jumps in and breaks even with Biden, McCain/Palin can call it a victory and the points will swing. It will get those leaners that are still unsure on how she will handle pressure. She will be debated a seasoned politician that been in office since she was eight years old. If Biden gaffes himself badly there will be a huge swing in points. For whatever reason the numbers react more on things around her. Which really is insane, in the history of the office, I don't think a VP candidate has had this much influence on the polls. I don't think McCain would have gotten a bigger rise out of people if he'd have chosen the world class idiot Thomas Robb (current grand dragon of the KKK). This race has been stranger than strange. Bill Clinton has practically been endorsing McCain/Palin with some of his interviews on TV. I see now why Obama distanced himself from Hillary, because Bill would have to be dealt with. It's hard to figure his motivation these days, other than to get Bill on the TV, and plug his latest project. This thing is far from a done deal. No matter who you vote for, get your ass out and vote, it's part of the process, and it's the right thing to do. People gave their lives so we would have the right to do so, it's a right we should be proud of and exercise at every given chance.

See you at the Polls..............

[HtownWxBoy]

Yeah well all those numbers mean squat right now. If Palin does well in the debate against Biden, or rather if Biden implodes or gaffes himself to death, you will see a 10%-15% swing, perhaps more. The few points Obama gained after their debate, will be minute compared to the swing of this next debate. You'd think she was running for frigging President, the way the numbers swing on her more than McCain. The numbers are so polarized right now on three major issues. She hasn't been in the pit yet. If she jumps in and breaks even with Biden, McCain/Palin can call it a victory and the points will swing. It will get those leaners that are still unsure on how she will handle pressure. She will be debated a seasoned politician that been in office since she was eight years old. If Biden gaffes himself badly there will be a huge swing in points. For whatever reason the numbers react more on things around her. Which really is insane, in the history of the office, I don't think a VP candidate has had this much influence on the polls. I don't think McCain would have gotten a bigger rise out of people if he'd have chosen the world class idiot Thomas Robb (current grand dragon of the KKK). This race has been stranger than strange. Bill Clinton has practically been endorsing McCain/Palin with some of his interviews on TV. I see now why Obama distanced himself from Hillary, because Bill would have to be dealt with. It's hard to figure his motivation these days, other than to get Bill on the TV, and plug his latest project. This thing is far from a done deal. No matter who you vote for, get your ass out and vote, it's part of the process, and it's the right thing to do. People gave their lives so we would have the right to do so, it's a right we should be proud of and exercise at every given chance.

See you at the Polls..............

If Palin doesn't do well in the debate I think it's over... unless Obama does something horrible... I know Palin is not running for President but so much focus has been placed on her and she has been on a downward spiral the past several days. Her interview w/ Katie Couric... what a disaster!

[N Judah]

If McCain weren't so old, nobody would care about Sarah Palin. The Vice President doesn't do much. I think it's been years since I heard anything at all about Dick Cheney, and that was only because he shot that dude.

[tierwestah]

I personally think Sarah Palin is going to get fried on Thursday against Biden. Her past interview history shows that she's intimidated very easily. I wouldn't count on Sarah Palin doing anything to save the repuclican numbers right now. She still looks good though

I saw the debates and I think Obama adressed most of the issues very well. Both candidates did a great job in holding their own. I too thought Mccain sounded like a broken record by saying Obama doesn't understand the issues over and over. Furthermore, i thought it was disrespectful that Mccain wouldn't even acknowledge his opponent, didn't look at him once. Mccain also hasnt convinced over his plan on bringing the troops and helping the economy crisis. He obviously has some nervous condition as much as he was moving and blinking.

[memebag]

If McCain weren't so old, nobody would care about Sarah Palin. The Vice President doesn't do much. I think it's been years since I heard anything at all about Dick Cheney, and that was only because he shot that dude.

Au contraire, Dick Cheney has been in the news a lot since then. Lately he's been trying to move the office of VP out of the executive branch so his documents don't end up in the National Archive.

[N Judah]

I don't think Sarah Palin not knowing anything will hurt her in the debates. It's like debating your little cousin. The mindset is so different that you can't even establish the grounds for making a point.

[TJones]

Discuss the candidates, not the HAIFers. No one on this forum is running for president.

Just to be fair, after seeing the choices, I may as well throw my hat in the ring. I could do just as good a job, and I am alot younger than both candidates. I could certainly pick a much better VP choice and I would increase spending for HAIF also.

Trae, all McCain wanted to do was postpone the debate a few days in order to go back to Washington while this Non-passing Bill got worked out. Can you tell me what the difference would have been between Friday and Tonight ? Why were y'all so scared about that ? Then he decides to show up after all, and you guys got even more scared. Also, if Obama was so hot to debate all the issues, how come Obama would never agree to more debates ?

Edited September 29, 2008 by TJones

[RedScare]

Just to be fair, after seeing the choices, I may as well throw my hat in the ring. I could do just as good a job, and I am alot younger than both candidates. I could certainly pick a much better VP choice and I would increase spending for HAIF also.

Socialist!

Trae, all McCain wanted to do was postpone the debate a few days in order to go back to Washington while this Non-passing Bill got worked out. Can you tell me what the difference would have been between Friday and Tonight ? Why were y'all so scared about that ? Then he decides to show up after all, and you guys got even more scared. Also, if Obama was so hot to debate all the issues, how come Obama would never agree to more debates ?

TJ, I cannot believe that you actually think McCain pulled that stunt out of some altruistic belief that he needed to be in DC. It was a political knee jerk stunt, made by a desparate candidate, just like his choice of Palin for VP. Once he realized that it had backfired, fueled by his uselessness at the White House meeting, he pretty much had to attend the debate.

And, I really do not understand your, and other Republican voters' constant use of the word 'scared' to describe everything. Pick a better word to describe our seeing through McCain's cynical political stunts. Scared ain't it.

[pineda]

"It was a political knee jerk stunt, made by a desparate candidate, just like his choice of Palin for VP."

Funny, I guess you see what you want to see, Red.

I viewed the choice of Joe Biden as the same kind of political knee-jerk response, made by a desperate candidate, in this case, Barack Obama.

[barracuda]

I personally think Sarah Palin is going to get fried on Thursday against Biden. Her past interview history shows that she's intimidated very easily. I wouldn't count on Sarah Palin doing anything to save the repuclican numbers right now. She still looks good though

Quite possibly, but I think Biden needs to approach the debate carefully. If Biden is too aggressive, it could back fire by making Palin into the victim, and that could turn people off to Biden.

[barracuda]

"It was a political knee jerk stunt, made by a desparate candidate, just like his choice of Palin for VP."

Funny, I guess you see what you want to see, Red.

I viewed the choice of Joe Biden as the same kind of political knee-jerk response, made by a desperate candidate, in this case, Barack Obama.

Joe Biden rounds out the experience of the Obama/Biden team. He has many years of foriegn policy experience, so it's a well thought-out choice for Obama.

McCain's pick of Palin was a knee-jerk response for a couple of reasons:

1. It's hypocritical. McCain railed against Obama's lack of experience for months, and then turned around and picked a VP mate with even less experience than Obama.

2 It's pretty obvious that Palin just isn't ready to run the country. The campaign is closely guarding her to avoid any more embarrassments like the handful of interviews she's given. She can't manage a press conference, so how is she going to run the country?

[DJ V Lawrence]

Trae, all McCain wanted to do was postpone the debate a few days in order to go back to Washington while this Non-passing Bill got worked out. Can you tell me what the difference would have been between Friday and Tonight ? Why were y'all so scared about that ?

I don't mean to jump in here, but I can see exactly why Democrats would be scared of that. John McCain was trying to postpone the debate until this Thursday in St. Louis...which in effect would mean the Biden/Palin Vice Presidential debate would have been either postponed or canceled. Palin's still in a bit of a PR blunder because of the Couric interview and lack of other interviews, and I think Obama-supporters want to see the VP debate happen on Thursday and not later because they feel that Palin would be more prepared to answer questions if she had more time.

I also believe that Palin may have actually benefitted from the bad Couric interview. Now, people are "expecting" her to not do a good job against Biden at the debate. She lowered the bar for herself big-time. At the same time, Biden's been doing a great job solidifying his stance on the issues on tv interviews. People expect him to be solid, and people already know that his biggest weakness in debates is talking too much. What if Palin does a great job at the debate? She'd change the momentum back to the McCain campaign.

On the contrary, if she doesn't do a great job at the debate after she's been seen as one trying to avoid the media, it could be quite damaging to the McCain ticket. A lot's riding on Thursday night.

Then he decides to show up after all, and you guys got even more scared. Also, if Obama was so hot to debate all the issues, how come Obama would never agree to more debates ?

That's inaccurate. Obama didn't agree to more TOWN HALL appearances with John McCain. (To my knowledge, Obama didn't agree to any). But that was a very smart political move on Obama's part to turn that down. It wouldn't do anything but help McCain by making Obama look like he's a follower of McCain's ideas. If Obama said yes, it would not have changed anything on their stance on the issues, wouldn't have changed the minds of the voters that already made their minds up, and there's already three nationally televised debates.

Remember that shortly before the DNC, there were polls out there showing that a high number of voters said they thought Obama was being covered too much, and McCain not enough. Obama showing up at McCain's town hall appearances would not have helped. But Obama, to be fair, didn't turn down any of the three debates thus far.

[Highway6]

Joe Biden rounds out the experience of the Obama/Biden team. He has many years of foriegn policy experience, so it's a well thought-out choice for Obama.

McCain's pick of Palin was a knee-jerk response for a couple of reasons:

1. It's hypocritical. McCain railed against Obama's lack of experience for months, and then turned around and picked a VP mate with even less experience than Obama.

How is it not equally hypocritical for Obama to preach change then pick a running mate whos been in DC for 25 yrs.

..... You wanna call McCain a hypocrite.. fine.. but dont leave out that Obama was the hypocrite first.

and repackaging it as "rounds out the experience of the Obama/Biden team" doesnt make Obama any less a hypocrite.

[pineda]

Joe Biden rounds out the experience of the Obama/Biden team. He has many years of foriegn policy experience, so it's a well thought-out choice for Obama.

McCain's pick of Palin was a knee-jerk response for a couple of reasons:

1. It's hypocritical. McCain railed against Obama's lack of experience for months, and then turned around and picked a VP mate with even less experience than Obama.

2 It's pretty obvious that Palin just isn't ready to run the country. The campaign is closely guarding her to avoid any more embarrassments like the handful of interviews she's given. She can't manage a press conference, so how is she going to run the country?

As I said before, we see what we want to see.

In MY opinion, I believe Obama knew he was way in over his head when it came to foreign affairs, so he picked Biden, whom he thought to be more knowledgeable than himself in that area.

I also don't see that McCain's pick of Palin was hypocritical, as you suggest. McCain's name is at the TOP of the ticket, and his questioning of Obama's experience was indeed legitimate, as Obama's name was also at the TOP of the ticket.

Why do you say that Palin isn't ready to "RUN" the country? I believe she's as ready, if not more so, than other presidents we have had that had even less experience than she does. I definitely think she'd do a better job than Joe Biden would!

[RedScare]

Quite possibly, but I think Biden needs to approach the debate carefully. If Biden is too aggressive, it could back fire by making Palin into the victim, and that could turn people off to Biden.

All Biden needs to do is the political equivalent of a prevent defense. He need not attack Palin at all, and shouldn't. She has already shown in her few interviews (which are relentlessly highlighted since there are only 3 to look at) that she is woefully unprepared to lead the country. At best, she can slow the bleeding. She cannot regain the lost popularity.

I also believe that Palin may have actually benefitted from the bad Couric interview. Now, people are "expecting" her to not do a good job against Biden at the debate. She lowered the bar for herself big-time.

Again, the best she can do is show that she studied her books between the Couric interview and the debate. Nothing she says will make anyone forget the Couric and Gibson interviews. She may soothe the feelings of Republican voters now calling for her to withdraw, but she will never recapture the popularity she had when she was unknown, mostly because the McCain campaign is limiting her interviews. So, after the debate, she'll have one debate and 3 interviews, two of which were terrible, one of which was with Sean Hannity. That is all people have to compare. To use another football analogy, how can you score when you keep the offense on the bench?