Dallas - Houston HSR Station

[Houston19514]

I get it 19514. I have spent plenty of time in downtown. I don't do bars, I'm not a baseball or basketball fan, and I'm not much on theater. Dynamo stadium sucks.

People like different things. I am simply reporting what I was told by a sample of out-of-towners who had a convention downtown.

If it's so precious for you to see downtown as the only rightful area of focus, rock on with your bad self. Have a good time. Knock yourself out. There's so much to do down there, I don't see how you have time to even post on message boards

ROFL. You obviously DON'T get it. If you'd paid the least bit of attention, you'd have noticed I've been calling out delusions on both sides of this silly argument. But I guess for some it's more fun to have a dramatic melt-down than to be bothered with silly things like facts or reality.

[gmac]

ROTFLMAO at you, 19514. You made a snarky and uninformed remark about me really needing to visit downtown Houston. I pointed out the error of your ways.

 

We shouldn't really be sidetracking this thread with our petty back-and-forths, so I will leave it at this.

[mollusk]

If anything, this Shelbyville vs. Springfield ranting points out that having a station that is more or less convenient to both is a sensible idea.  

 

The trick is going to be getting Metro or some other entity to pony up the infrastructure to get from the station to the two centers of commerce and entertainment.

[Houston19514]

ROTFLMAO at you, 19514. You made a snarky and uninformed remark about me really needing to visit downtown Houston. I pointed out the error of your ways.

We shouldn't really be sidetracking this thread with our petty back-and-forths, so I will leave it at this.

Uninformed? If you think there is nothing downtown open after 3pm, it is you who is uninformed.

[IronTiger]

There are upwards of 400 stores and 50 restaurants at the Galleria, plus various other options nearby. As hard as it may be to believe, lots of folks prefer to wander around a brightly lit, indoor, mall with lots of shopping, eating, and people watching options than dodging panhandlers on the not so brightly lit streets Downtown. My colleagues who come here from South America and Asia have little interest in watching baseball or basketball, or going to bars, as those activities aren't reimbursed by the company. They do love to shop, often arriving with a half full suitcase, and departing with 2 nearly overweight ones. This is because equivalent shopping at home is far more expensive for them. On weekends, they generally head to the outlet mall in Cypress.

 

They will sometimes attend Dynamo games, since they love soccer.

 

This is true, to the fact that at least as a few years ago, the Baytown Best Buy stores deliberately put iPods and other consumer electronics close to the front because they're often visited by international visitors who spend their limited shore time buying consumer electronics that are substantially more expensive elsewhere. But HSR stations aren't international, they connect with Dallas, unless you consider Dallas to be another country.

 

I'm pretty sure that some of the "The station should be downtown" sentiment stems from the fact that Dallas has theirs downtown, but besides things like access and all, it still wouldn't work in Houston's favor because the downtowns aren't comparable. Instead of comparing Downtown to Uptown, if we compared the Dallas Downtown to Houston Downtown, it's not a contest. Dallas Downtown has museums, performing arts spaces, actual shopping (Neiman Marcus, at least), American history (Dealey Plaza), and a farmer's market, all within reasonable walking distance. Houston's downtown has a bunch of skyscrapers, some bars, the tunnels (one of my favorite things about Houston's downtown, personally, but shut after 3 pm and on weekends), performing arts spaces, and a bunch of often-empty stadiums surrounded by parking lots. That's not to say Dallas is better than Houston (we are not getting into that) but downtown to downtown, no contest...a downtown Houston station could still come across as inferior.

 

That's why I think that the NW Mall/Uptown connection is a better bet overall. Change the playing field and don't compete directly.

[scarface]

This is true, to the fact that at least as a few years ago, the Baytown Best Buy stores deliberately put iPods and other consumer electronics close to the front because they're often visited by international visitors who spend their limited shore time buying consumer electronics that are substantially more expensive elsewhere. But HSR stations aren't international, they connect with Dallas, unless you consider Dallas to be another country.

 

I'm pretty sure that some of the "The station should be downtown" sentiment stems from the fact that Dallas has theirs downtown, but besides things like access and all, it still wouldn't work in Houston's favor because the downtowns aren't comparable. Instead of comparing Downtown to Uptown, if we compared the Dallas Downtown to Houston Downtown, it's not a contest. Dallas Downtown has museums, performing arts spaces, actual shopping (Neiman Marcus, at least), American history (Dealey Plaza), and a farmer's market, all within reasonable walking distance. Houston's downtown has a bunch of skyscrapers, some bars, the tunnels (one of my favorite things about Houston's downtown, personally, but shut after 3 pm and on weekends), performing arts spaces, and a bunch of often-empty stadiums surrounded by parking lots. That's not to say Dallas is better than Houston (we are not getting into that) but downtown to downtown, no contest...a downtown Houston station could still come across as inferior.

 

That's why I think that the NW Mall/Uptown connection is a better bet overall. Change the playing field and don't compete directly.

 

You are saying this isn't a Houston vs Dallas thing yet you say it's not contest that downtown Dallas is the clear winner. It seems that you're using this as reason as to why they should get a station and Houston shouldn't. I gotta correct you.

 

You mention that downtown Dallas has museums and performing arts spaces, yet you fail to mention Houston's theater district. Houston has only been out of having it's shopping (Former Macy's) for about 2 years now. With the planned retail district, that will definitely leave it not long before Houston will be back on the scene for retail again. C'mon, we're talking about one freegin department store here? No contest? Houston has 3 stadiums in it's downtown, how the heck is that no contest? 

 

C'mon bro, Let's use some better examples. Downtown Houston is more than just some bars and a bunch of empty stadiums surrounded by parking lots. Those parking lots have been quickly converting to hotels, parks, and apartments.

 

This can not be a serious post here,  really.

 

[IronTiger]

You are saying this isn't a Houston vs Dallas thing yet you say it's not contest that downtown Dallas is the clear winner. It seems that you're using this as reason as to why they should get a station and Houston shouldn't. I gotta correct you.

You mention that downtown Dallas has museums and performing arts spaces, yet you fail to mention Houston's theater district. Houston has only been out of having it's shopping (Former Macy's) for about 2 years now. With the planned retail district, that will definitely leave it not long before Houston will be back on the scene for retail again. C'mon, we're talking about one freegin department store here? No contest? Houston has 3 stadiums in it's downtown, how the heck is that no contest?

C'mon bro, Let's use some better examples. Downtown Houston is more than just some bars and a bunch of empty stadiums surrounded by parking lots. Those parking lots have been quickly converting to hotels, parks, and apartments.

This can not be a serious post here, really.

Sounds like you're misquoting me already. Did I say that Houston only had a few bars and stadiums, and no theaters? No. Did I say that Dallas had its own equivalent of Uptown and all those other things that make Houston better? No.

Wait until tomorrow (well, later today sometime) when I can answer your post better and clear up any misunderstandings. I've got work in 9 hours.

[jgriff]

I'd rather stay in downtown but those who argue that the galleria is popular with foreigners are correct. People from South America come in to load up on luxury items. My wife used to work in Neiman Marcus. That is a large part of their business. Walk through the high end shops in the galleria, you won't see rich people from Houston, they don't shop there. The women in River Oaks shop in New York, London, etc... My wife can't even get the kind of purses she wants in Houston. We get them when we're in New York.

[IronTiger]

You are saying this isn't a Houston vs Dallas thing yet you say it's not contest that downtown Dallas is the clear winner. It seems that you're using this as reason as to why they should get a station and Houston shouldn't. I gotta correct you.

 

You mention that downtown Dallas has museums and performing arts spaces, yet you fail to mention Houston's theater district. Houston has only been out of having it's shopping (Former Macy's) for about 2 years now. With the planned retail district, that will definitely leave it not long before Houston will be back on the scene for retail again. C'mon, we're talking about one freegin department store here? No contest? Houston has 3 stadiums in it's downtown, how the heck is that no contest? 

 

C'mon bro, Let's use some better examples. Downtown Houston is more than just some bars and a bunch of empty stadiums surrounded by parking lots. Those parking lots have been quickly converting to hotels, parks, and apartments.

 

This can not be a serious post here,  really.

Besides completely misquoting me (I did say that Houston had performing arts venues, for starters) and I did not say anything to close to the fact that Houston's downtown is "just some bars and a bunch of empty stadiums surrounded by parking lots", trying to pass off the former Macy's (which was doing badly even before it closed) as the retail Houston needs, and ignoring everything else.

If we're on retail, a better argument to claim would be GreenStreet, which Dallas does not have an equivalent of. The "retail district" has been discussed for several years, and nothing has come of it, which is just as well since downtown malls (indoor and outdoor) have traditionally failed.

[Houston19514]

I'd rather stay in downtown but those who argue that the galleria is popular with foreigners are correct. People from South America come in to load up on luxury items. My wife used to work in Neiman Marcus. That is a large part of their business. Walk through the high end shops in the galleria, you won't see rich people from Houston, they don't shop there. The women in River Oaks shop in New York, London, etc... My wife can't even get the kind of purses she wants in Houston. We get them when we're in New York.

 

You are absolutely correct with regard to the Galleria being popular with foreigners.  Sadly, you then slip in to delusional territory when you state that rich people from Houston don't shop there.  That is silliness.

[islandofmind]

This is true, to the fact that at least as a few years ago, the Baytown Best Buy stores deliberately put iPods and other consumer electronics close to the front because they're often visited by international visitors who spend their limited shore time buying consumer electronics that are substantially more expensive elsewhere. But HSR stations aren't international, they connect with Dallas, unless you consider Dallas to be another country.

 

I'm pretty sure that some of the "The station should be downtown" sentiment stems from the fact that Dallas has theirs downtown, but besides things like access and all, it still wouldn't work in Houston's favor because the downtowns aren't comparable. Instead of comparing Downtown to Uptown, if we compared the Dallas Downtown to Houston Downtown, it's not a contest. Dallas Downtown has museums, performing arts spaces, actual shopping (Neiman Marcus, at least), American history (Dealey Plaza), and a farmer's market, all within reasonable walking distance. Houston's downtown has a bunch of skyscrapers, some bars, the tunnels (one of my favorite things about Houston's downtown, personally, but shut after 3 pm and on weekends), performing arts spaces, and a bunch of often-empty stadiums surrounded by parking lots. That's not to say Dallas is better than Houston (we are not getting into that) but downtown to downtown, no contest...a downtown Houston station could still come across as inferior.

 

That's why I think that the NW Mall/Uptown connection is a better bet overall. Change the playing field and don't compete directly.

 

This issue is transportation. Uptown is as connected as it can be assuming the BRT is completed.

 

The lack of a connection to Downtown is the problem.

 

Aside from that, your assessment of the amenities available in Downtown Houston is lacking but those have already been enumerated ad nauseam.

[JJxvi]

Like I mentioned earlier...this tourism argument is folly. Most travel between Dallas and Houston is business day travel.  

 

Any travelers on the train are going to be mostly businessmen and lawyerly types going to Downtown, Uptown, Energy Corridor, Greenway Plaza or some other miscellaneous location (like a hotel uptown for a conference, or visiting a plant, or a warehouse at a another random location etc).

 

Downtown has about 40 million square feet of office compared to about 40 million between Uptown and the Energy corridor NW transit center is a well suited site for pretty much anywhere except travel to the Medical center which is closer to Hobby.  

Edited December 21, 2015 by JJxvi

[JJxvi]

Metro already has a plan for rail between downtown and the northwest transit center.  It was originally slated to be built in Phase 2 and was one of the lines we voted on in the Phase 2 referendum but they never even tried to build it.

Edited December 21, 2015 by JJxvi

[Houston19514]

Metro already has a plan for rail between downtown and the northwest transit center.  It was originally slated to be built in Phase 2 and was one of the lines we voted on in the Phase 2 referendum but they never even tried to build it.

 

To clarify, the line to the Northwest Transit Center that was included in the vote was the Uptown Line.  Yes, it did technically connect downtown by rail to the Northwest Transit Center, but it would be a long ride.  Uptown Line to University Line to Red Line.  I think it's correct it was at times referred to as a Phase 2, but I don't think it was part of what we voted on.

 

Edited December 21, 2015 by Houston19514

[islandofmind]

To clarify, the line to the Northwest Transit Center that was included in the vote was the Uptown Line.  Yes, it did technically connect downtown by rail to the Northwest Transit Center, but it would be a long ride.  Uptown Line to University Line to Red Line.

 

 

This would be a tortured route to downtown assuming a mode change BRT/Rail and a couple of other line transfers. Long ride indeed.

[JJxvi]

To clarify, the line to the Northwest Transit Center that was included in the vote was the Uptown Line.  Yes, it did technically connect downtown by rail to the Northwest Transit Center, but it would be a long ride.  Uptown Line to University Line to Red Line.  I think it's correct it was at times referred to as a Phase 2, but I don't think it was part of what we voted on.

 

 

You're wrong.  There were SIX corridors for Phase 2 that we voted on.  

 

"North Hardy"  which is the built extension of the red line to Northline Mall

 

"Southeast" partially built as the purple line

 

"Harrisburg" partially built as the green line

 

"Westpark" which was from Wheeler Station to the Westpark TC. Stalled never built line called the University line.

 

"Uptown" which was from Westpark TC to Northwest TC.

 

"Inner Katy" which was described on the ballot as "Approximately 7.4 miles westward from Downtown tying into the Uptown/West Loop line at the Northwest Transit Center. Serves Washington Avenue and the Heights areas. This segment or line will have approximately 6 stations."

Edited December 21, 2015 by JJxvi

[JJxvi]

EXHIBIT A-4 METRORail PHASE II

METRORail Phase II generally consists of the following light rail segments or lines, including associated vehicles and facilities:

 

North Hardy • Approximately 5.4 miles from University of Houston-Downtown through the Near Northside neighborhoods to Northline Mall, serving Downtown, Moody Park, and Houston Community College at Northline. This segment or line will have approximately 4 stations.

 

Southeast • Approximately 9.9 miles through Downtown serving the University of Houston Central Campus, Texas Southern University and Palm Center ending at Griggs at the South Loop 610, including an approximate 1.5-mile connection into Downtown and an approximate 2.8-mile branch to the Sunnyside community along Cullen to Bellfort. These extensions, including the Sunnyside branch, will have approximately 13 stations.

 

Harrisburg • Approximate 6-mile branch off the Southeast line that extends east from Dowling through the East End to the Magnolia Transit Center, then turning southward and extending to the Gulfgate Center and the Gulfgate area. This segment or line will have approximately 4 stations.

 

Westpark • Approximately 6.6 miles westward from the Wheeler station on Phase I METRORail to the Hillcroft Transit Center, serving Greenway Plaza, West University, Bellaire and the Uptown/Galleria area. This segment or line will have approximately 4 stations.

 

Uptown/West Loop • Approximately 4.4 miles north from Westpark along Post Oak Blvd. and the West Loop 610 to the Northwest Transit Center. Serves the Galleria and Uptown businesses on Post Oak Boulevard. This segment or line will have approximately 7 stations.

 

Inner Katy • Approximately 7.4 miles westward from Downtown tying into the Uptown/West Loop line at the Northwest Transit Center. Serves Washington Avenue and the Heights areas. This segment or line will have approximately 6 stations.

[Houston19514]

You're wrong.  There were SIX corridors for Phase 2 that we voted on.  

 

"North Hardy"  which is the built extension of the red line to Northline Mall

 

"Southeast" partially built as the purple line

 

"Harrisburg" partially built as the green line

 

"Westpark" which was from Wheeler Station to the Westpark TC. Stalled never built line called the University line.

 

"Uptown" which was from Westpark TC to Northwest TC.

 

"Inner Katy" which was described on the ballot as "Approximately 7.4 miles westward from Downtown tying into the Uptown/West Loop line at the Northwest Transit Center. Serves Washington Avenue and the Heights areas. This segment or line will have approximately 6 stations."

 

I stand corrected.  We indeed voted on the Inner Katy line.  We just didn't vote on any funding for it.  In the same sense, we apparently also voted on extending the red line to Greenspoint and Bush airport, the Southeast line to Hobby Airport, and the Southwest commuter line from Fannin South to the Harris County line, and other light rail and commuter line extensions/additions.  http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/18/what-else-did-the-97-of-scientists-say/

Edited December 21, 2015 by Houston19514

[Visitor]

From recent conversations i was privy to with metro and gulf coast rail district, there are no near term plans to build the inner katy line. This doesn't preclude it from happening, just isn't a priority at the moment.

There are a couple of groups pushing this though, and some new groups being formed to move rail development in Houston along.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Visitor

[JJxvi]

I don't think they have near term plans to actually build anything.

[Visitor]

Exactly, they are too proud of their buses...

[Houston19514]

Focus shifts to stretching bullet train to downtown

[JJxvi]

Again, that article is hilarious because the "plan" to resolve this "how to get to downtown" from the Northwest TC crisis has existed on paper for more than a decade and we all even voted on it.

Edited December 21, 2015 by JJxvi

[JJxvi]

The beginning of that article is almost ridiculous, it sounds much more like all of the local transportation agencies are getting together to "study" to prove to the feds and TCR that THEY should pay to move their station downtown rather than any kind of planning among those agencies about how they would plan to link up with TCR.

Edited December 21, 2015 by JJxvi

[jgriff]

You are absolutely correct with regard to the Galleria being popular with foreigners.  Sadly, you then slip in to delusional territory when you state that rich people from Houston don't shop there.  That is silliness.

Maybe Neiman Marcus.

 

The Galleria is not a location for the really rich to shop. I used to walk through it multiple times a day. It's for quinceaneras now. Without South Americans that place would be dead. 

[BigFootsSocks]

Hey man, we can knock the absurdity and perhaps redundancy of the article and its proposition, but if that's the kind of political maneuvering that's necessary to get a rail extension for METRO to the HCR station, then I'm not complaining.

[j_cuevas713]

Hey man, we can knock the absurdity and perhaps redundancy of the article and its proposition, but if that's the kind of political maneuvering that's necessary to get a rail extension for METRO to the HCR station, then I'm not complaining.

Took the words out of my mouth! 

[Houston19514]

Maybe Neiman Marcus.

The Galleria is not a location for the really rich to shop. I used to walk through it multiple times a day. It's for quinceaneras now. Without South Americans that place would be dead.

Riiiiggghhht. LOL

[BigFootsSocks]

Stereotypes riiiigggghhht? LOL

[TxDave]

As a likely passenger to Houston on this route, I would primarily be happy for quick access to any stop.

However, I would prefer, and be more motivated to travel to a more vibrant location than the proposed former mall site at a freeway intersection. Even the easiest connections would not be the same as arriving in a center of action.

That said, the end of line connections should not only be designed for business travelers, but also to make Houston easy to acces for leisure travelers who might not otherwise take a chance to visit or know where they could go around town

An airport type endpoint - with less than simple 'ground transportation' requirements - would dilute the benefits of the quick train ride. Hopefully lemonade can be made from any lemons!

[BigFootsSocks]

They've been open about building up the area around both stations with mixed-use type developments

[MaxConcrete]

I just attended the meeting. The crowd was much larger than previous meetings, filling the room before the meeting officially started at 6:30. The room had bad acoustics so it was very loud and difficult to have a conversation.

 

Bottom line: there is no new information since the last public meeting in December. The representative I spoke to said the exact location for the Houston station is still under study, and could be anywhere from Northwest Mall to the Northwest Transit Center.

 

The key to getting good information at these meetings is to find a person who really knows what is going on, such as a project manager or lead engineer. Many of the representatives available to answer questions are staff members of the consulting firms, and they often have ancillary roles in the project, only knowing details about their specific area. Tonight I was not able to find a knowledgeable person regarding the station location or design details, partly due to the crowd and noise, and also because there was a limited number of people from the engineering team. (Other reps are from the survey, environmental, or public relations depts.)

 

But I did press one engineering rep to find out if anything is new on the design along Hempstead Road. Details are not final, but efforts remain focused on the elevated structure on the north side of the Union Pacific railroad. The representative said they would not infringe on the UP right-of-way, including no use of "air rights" (ie allowing the elevated structure to overhang the UP right-of-way). He said Texas Central would need to use the full width of the elevated train structure on the south side of Hempstead Road, so they will need 50 feet of the Hempstead Road right-of-way. He said there are discussions with the City of Houston, since COH owns the Hempstead right-of-way. He also said Hempstead travel lanes would not be underneath the north side of the elevated structure. Since the Hempstead Road right-of-way is about 100 feet, that would leave only 50 feet for Hempstead Road, assuming no right-of-way acquisition. That's enough for 3 lanes and sidewalks. I'm also thinking this could make the future planned Hempstead tollway infeasible because much more property will need to be acquired on the north side of Hempstead Road.

 

The rep also mentioned they are looking at preserving a potential commuter rail line corridor underneath the elevated structure. Presumably it would be one track on each side of a center column. But that idea seemed to be very preliminary at this point.

 

Outside Beltway 8, Hempstead Road does not exist, so I asked the rep what they are planning. At this point the rep became ticked off by my questions and started ignoring me.

 

It will be interesting to see what is planned outside BW 8. I don't think they can place the elevated structure between the US 290 frontage road and main lanes because the space will be very tight when the expansion is complete. So they'll need to acquire right-of-way on the south side of the railroad tracks.

[BigFootsSocks]

Ok so you're clearly confused on the whole ROW situation...The Cuty wouldn't just sell 50 ft of ROW to TCR and turn Hempstead into a three lane road. That's laughably ridiculous; what would happen, is that TCR buys 50 ft of ROW north of Hempstead and Hempstead is shifted over 50 ft to accommodate the standard lanes. Thus, if HXTRA still wants to build a tollway, they're buying approximately the same total amount of land as they did before.

As for the rep getting "ticked off", I doubt that was his ego and was more so the fact that there is still so much preliminary design underway that asking concrete questions like that is relatively pointless.

Thanks for going to the meeting though.

[Sparrow]

FWIW, the FAQ facts section on the Texas Central website now is updated slightly to provide some insight to the question of the Houston station location:

 

"In Houston, the station is planned for the area along the 610 Loop between 290 and I-10."

 

Sure, it may just be the choice of wording, but things seem to be leaning more towards a NW TC adjacent location just as the Alignment Map suggests.

[IronTiger]

Ok so you're clearly confused on the whole ROW situation...The Cuty wouldn't just sell 50 ft of ROW to TCR and turn Hempstead into a three lane road. That's laughably ridiculous; what would happen, is that TCR buys 50 ft of ROW north of Hempstead and Hempstead is shifted over 50 ft to accommodate the standard lanes. Thus, if HXTRA still wants to build a tollway, they're buying approximately the same total amount of land as they did before.

As for the rep getting "ticked off", I doubt that was his ego and was more so the fact that there is still so much preliminary design underway that asking concrete questions like that is relatively pointless.

Thanks for going to the meeting though.

 

I'm not sure the "same amount of land" works that way even accounting for land values. Just as an example, 50 feet would shave off parking spaces and green space, 50 more feet would start seeing building demolitions, which would raise the price considerably.

[BigFootsSocks]

Yeah I get that, it's a valid point, but I don't see TXDOT signing off on a decreased lane version of Hempstead.

[IronTiger]

Yeah I get that, it's a valid point, but I don't see TXDOT signing off on a decreased lane version of Hempstead.

I'll have to look, but I think that may have been one of the plans all along.

[BigFootsSocks]

Nothing has been approved yet lol

[IronTiger]

Nothing has been approved yet lol

I know, but you were just swearing up and down they'd never reduce the capacity of Hempstead Road, when in reality, that's probably in the cards.

[BigFootsSocks]

The absence of approval does not back up my claim just as much as it does not back up yours! You're doing literally the exact same thing you accuse me of.

You, however, do not have the pleasure/experience with working with TXDOT. They are not going to reduce the lanes on a highly-traveled corridor for a private project that won't be accessible to the people immediately on this stretch of road (unless of course they buy a ticket to Dallas and actually ride the train) because the lawsuits and PR battle that would result from such a foolish idea would be insane. You don't even need experience with TXDOT; that's just common sense. In reality, no, it's not.

Edited January 27, 2016 by BigFootsSocks

[Sparrow]

http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/texas/2016/03/11/dallas-houston-high-speed-rail-loses-brazos-valley-support/81676242/

Losing support in the Brazos Valley. The longer this takes to get started, the more time the rural opposition has to stir up problems.

It's kind of peculiar how the local politicians have made such a big show against this project that aims to gain a 100 foot wide easement while we hear nothing negative from them about the planned 400 foot wide 249 Aggie Expressway or the similarly wide proposed Forts-to-Ports Interstate 14 or even the proposed loop around BCS. Do these same rural folks and local politicians oppose Union Pacific, BNSF, the power line companies, and the Keystone pipeline?  

[BigFootsSocks]

Yeah I saw that, though I assume it's just the current political climate leaking into the public realm. I'm sure once construction does start, most of the political pandering will dwindle, as the election of Socialist Bernie, Hitler Trump, Benghazi Clinton, or Ted "pedophile" Cruz to the presidency will have been over by then. 

[Texasota]

Wait, Ted Cruz is a pedophile? I though he was just the Zodiac Killer!

[BigFootsSocks]

I mean, isn't that the same thing?

[tigereye]

On March 11, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Sparrow said:

http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/texas/2016/03/11/dallas-houston-high-speed-rail-loses-brazos-valley-support/81676242/

Losing support in the Brazos Valley. The longer this takes to get started, the more time the rural opposition has to stir up problems.

It's kind of peculiar how the local politicians have made such a big show against this project that aims to gain a 100 foot wide easement while we hear nothing negative from them about the planned 400 foot wide 249 Aggie Expressway or the similarly wide proposed Forts-to-Ports Interstate 14 or even the proposed loop around BCS. Do these same rural folks and local politicians oppose Union Pacific, BNSF, the power line companies, and the Keystone pipeline?  

Honestly, I hope the rural opposition succeeds in scuttling the entire project. If they can't find a way to get it Downtown, where it belongs, then don't waste money & time because of a poorly planned dead-end terminus in suburbia.

Screw Northwest Mall and NWTC. This city deserves better.

[BigFootsSocks]

So because it can't go an extra few miles, and because we haven't heard any official confirmation of a METRO line transit extension to the area, we should just say "**** it" to the entire thing? That makes no sense, and it's logic like this that the opposition relies on to steer attention away from issues, such as the fact that the Brazos Valley Committee chairmen is also a chair on Texans Against High Speed Rail.

No mention of that anywhere but on a Dallas transpo blog.

[cspwal]

It is that private company's money to waste.  It's not any of our money, unless you're one of their investors.  A private rail line being scuttled now, even if it doesn't go to downtown, makes it even less likely any company would try it again in the future.

[tigereye]

I don't care. If you can't do it right, don't do it at all. 

Downtown should be the final destination. Anywhere else is a mistake. 

[tigereye]

13 hours ago, BigFootsSocks said:

So because it can't go an extra few miles, and because we haven't heard any official confirmation of a METRO line transit extension to the area, we should just say "**** it" to the entire thing? That makes no sense, and it's logic like this that the opposition relies on to steer attention away from issues, such as the fact that the Brazos Valley Committee chairmen is also a chair on Texans Against High Speed Rail.

No mention of that anywhere but on a Dallas transpo blog.

I wouldn't rely on a MetroRail extension for this, especially after the Blue line fiasco. 

Metro could work at it and get confirmation. But politics could also get in the way...

[BigFootsSocks]

Very true, though there's already early talks of such a thing occurring, and the 2040 Future Transit plan on the HGAC site shows a line to this exact spot up the Washington corridor area