Houston Center Redevelopment

[Moderators]

Finally The Shops have come out of it's

Rip Van Winkle coma.Someone whispered in their ears that 8,000 people live downtown now. With more coming next year. This looks great and hopefully

some soft apparel retail will follow, it's a good beginning.

[Nate99]

I wonder how accommodating these plans are of the existing tenants.  After 2pm, it's a mausoleum in there, but the existing food court hall does brisk business at lunch.  I suppose if they dress up the staff at Doozo and Chick-Fil-A in trendy outfits and place a few buzzwords on the menu boards, folks might not know the difference.  Getting bar traffic in there will be a challenge, but I've been surprised how many people Discovery Green draws in, so hopefully that carries over. 

 

I still refer to the area as "The Park Shops", maybe the third name is the charm. I had a theory that the Bennigan's that was in there failed (a decade before the whole company went down the tubes) because of the lack of alcohol sales that help to support profits of the casual restaurant biz. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Nate99

[Elseed]

Mehh. The Houston shops has been lame just like the downtown tunnels since day one. 

Edited December 10, 2018 by Elseed

[swtsig]

1 hour ago, Elseed said:

Mehh. The Houston shops has been lame just like the downtown tunnels since day one. 

 

hence the reason they're about to undergo a major renovation. 

 

please never stop posting. 

[j_cuevas713]

When is the renovation supposed to begin?

[UtterlyUrban]

4 hours ago, Elseed said:

Mehh. The Houston shops has been lame just like the downtown tunnels since day one. 

I disagree.

 

20-years ago, the mall was full of decent stores.  There was a brooks brothers, a mid-tier jewelry store (‘corrigans” as I recall), luggage store, men’s shoe store, a fancy candy store and lots more.  How do I know this? 

 

Well..... I bought clothes at brooks brothers for myself.  Johnson and Murphy dress Shoes at the shoe store, pearl earrings at the jewelry store for my wife, an expensive Jack George briefcase at the luggage store, and my friend owned the candy store.  The mall was NOT “lame” since “day one”.... it was quite functional and a place where downtown office people actually shopped.

 

 

[Nate99]

13 hours ago, UtterlyUrban said:

I disagree.

 

20-years ago, the mall was full of decent stores.  There was a brooks brothers, a mid-tier jewelry store (‘corrigans” as I recall), luggage store, men’s shoe store, a fancy candy store and lots more.  How do I know this? 

 

Well..... I bought clothes at brooks brothers for myself.  Johnson and Murphy dress Shoes at the shoe store, pearl earrings at the jewelry store for my wife, an expensive Jack George briefcase at the luggage store, and my friend owned the candy store.  The mall was NOT “lame” since “day one”.... it was quite functional and a place where downtown office people actually shopped.

 

 

 

There was an Oshman's and a Bennigan's that lasted quite a while in there too.  It was a functional mall without an anchor department store, and that model has tailed off everywhere. It may have happened a bit earlier for the Park Shops given their location in the CBD, but the world is sprouting up around it now. It's an interesting space with potential. 

[Elseed]

18 hours ago, UtterlyUrban said:

I disagree.

 

20-years ago, the mall was full of decent stores.  There was a brooks brothers, a mid-tier jewelry store (‘corrigans” as I recall), luggage store, men’s shoe store, a fancy candy store and lots more.  How do I know this? 

 

Well..... I bought clothes at brooks brothers for myself.  Johnson and Murphy dress Shoes at the shoe store, pearl earrings at the jewelry store for my wife, an expensive Jack George briefcase at the luggage store, and my friend owned the candy store.  The mall was NOT “lame” since “day one”.... it was quite functional and a place where downtown office people actually shopped.

 

 

 

Sorry bud, it was and always will be lame.

21 hours ago, swtsig said:

 

hence the reason they're about to undergo a major renovation. 

 

please never stop posting. 

 

You got it brother!

[swtsig]

Brookfield is unveiling their plans for Houston Center 1/15, just FYI

[CaptainJilliams]

Awesome!

[downtownian]

1 hour ago, CrockpotandGravel said:

The Houston Center website has a new look, promising new changes to go with the look of the website.

 

The heart of downtown Houston is changing. Planning is underway for a major redevelopment of Houston Center’s landmark 4.2M square foot office and retail campus. Brookfield Properties is making a significant capital investment that will raise the bar in the total tenant experience. Houston Center will be a modern and dynamic mixed use office campus with the amenities to retain and attract top talent.
 

Please check back in January 2019 for the unveiling of the redevelopment plans.

 

http://houstoncenter.com/

 

 

 

I hope there is a food hall component. Downtown Houston can't get by with only Conservatory, Bravery, Lyric, Finn Hall and Understory plus the planned one at the Post HTX.

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

10 minutes ago, downtownian said:

I hope there is a food hall component. Downtown Houston can't get by with only Conservatory, Bravery, Lyric, Finn Hall and Understory plus the planned one at the Post HTX.

 

 

the east half of the first floor of the Shops is pretty much all restaurants now, but more choices would be good

[Texasota]

It would be cool if it became an actual market hall. There are no food halls yet on the east side of downtown though, so that would work too..

(I'm actually like 75% serious)

[Urbannizer]

http://houstoncenter.com/

[H-Town Man]

19 hours ago, Urbannizer said:

http://houstoncenter.com/

 

Man, you just infuriated Crockpot, who already posted that link above.

 

The images suggest something kind of Austin-y. I hope it doesn't get too weird along McKinney; these are understated, classy buildings deserving of dignity.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by H-Town Man

[UtterlyUrban]

On 12/19/2018 at 1:06 PM, CrockpotandGravel said:

The Houston Center website has a new look, promising new changes to go with the look of the website.

 

The heart of downtown Houston is changing. Planning is underway for a major redevelopment of Houston Center’s landmark 4.2M square foot office and retail campus. Brookfield Properties is making a significant capital investment that will raise the bar in the total tenant experience. Houston Center will be a modern and dynamic mixed use office campus with the amenities to retain and attract top talent.
 

Please check back in January 2019 for the unveiling of the redevelopment plans.

 

http://houstoncenter.com/

 

 

“Retail campus”?

 

hmmmmmm.  I guess the dress barn is about the only store left in the “retail campus” ......

 

sadly, I think that thier vision for the “retail campus” is going to be a food court with liquor.   

[CREguy13]

Looking forward to this announcement.  This is approx. a $100m investment by Brookfield into Houston Center.

[DrLan34]

On 12/19/2018 at 11:49 AM, swtsig said:

Brookfield is unveiling their plans for Houston Center 1/15, just FYI

 

Not sure if this is part of the final plans, but I found this:

 

https://gibranvillalobos.com/gibran-villalobos-architecture/

 

 

 

[UtterlyUrban]

If I had. Nickel for every time a developer used H&M or other store logos on their project, I might be able to buy a condo at Marlowe.

 

Does Greenstreet retail look  like the renderings?  It’s been about 5 years.

 

didnt The Star include H&M specifically in their renderings?  Under the new tower that they didn’t build as I recall.

 

didnt the downtown organization include an H&M in the renderings for Dallas street where Houston has spent millions to attract retail and has gotten none?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[j_cuevas713]

I was hoping they would open it up with more glass and natural light. I like it!

[Houston19514]

They need visible access to the shops from the east end.  I had hoped for exterior escalators on the prior remodel...  surely they'll add something this time?

[DrLan34]

More information:

 

https://www.chron.com/business/real-estate/article/Downtown-s-Houston-Center-prepares-for-makeover-13536779.php 

 

"Construction will begin next month and is expected to take nearly two years to complete."

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by DrLan34

[downtownian]

8 minutes ago, DrLan34 said:

More information:

 

https://www.chron.com/business/real-estate/article/Downtown-s-Houston-Center-prepares-for-makeover-13536779.php 

 

The rendering in the chron article looks even better than the renderings posted above 

[LBC2HTX]

1 minute ago, downtownian said:

 

The rendering in the chron article looks even better than the renderings posted above 

That's a rendering of 2 Houston Center, which is catty corner to the shops. 

[Houston19514]

28 minutes ago, LBC2HTX said:

That's a rendering of 2 Houston Center, which is catty corner to the shops. 

 

In Slide #12 you can catch a glimpse of the Shops building.  As downtownian said, it looks better than the renderings posted above.

 

The presentation is barely mentions the Shops.  The same for their website information about the renovation.  I guess they aren't ready to announce any details on the Shops renovation just yet.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Houston19514

[DrLan34]

Film to watch here:

 

http://houstoncenter.com/ 

 

Brochure:

 

http://houstoncenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/HC_brochure-01.19.pdf

Edited January 16, 2019 by DrLan34

[Urbannizer]

 

 

 

 

[Luminare]

Great design, honestly. Probably the best possible approach with balancing the need to address ground level and not damage the identity of the building. These buildings come from a completely different idea/era of a different type of city. Its interesting to image just what the mega platform city of Houston Center would have looked like if it would have been built out in its full glory. Without the full development, these buildings have always been awkward. As far as the brick Houston Center building, that one still has a long way to go. Its just plain ugly, but the renovation images for that one also seem to be good ways readdressing ground level. All of this will completely turn this area around. Instead of being unwelcoming, monolithic, and dark, it will be the complete opposite.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Luminare

[mattyt36]

Page 4 of the PDF DrLan posted mentions nothing specific with regard to the Shops, which is strange when combined with lack of renderings.  I would've thought that would be one of the most prominent components given its uniqueness, but maybe they don't see much opportunity there.

 

I can't copy and paste but maybe someone will have better luck than I.  Synopsis:

 

-New central plaza and greenspace

 

-Renovation of LBT and 2 HC lobbies

 

-Reclad pedestrian bridges

 

-"Reshaping the retail and dining experience throughout Houston Center"

 

-New shared space design

 

-Conferencing and co-working venues

[H-Town Man]

The plaza looks pretty crisp. I think though that they are missing an opportunity to add more street-fronting retail along McKinney between Fannin and Austin. At one end of that stretch you have Morton's steakhouse at 1001 McKinney being one of their top performing locations in Texas. At the other end, we all know how successful Phoenicia has been. So give us more than just one new retail space in the three intervening blocks. Remove the covered driveway from 2HC and put something there (you can still have your entrance/exit on McKinney). Put something where the green triangle is at the foot of LyondellBasel Tower. Open up The Shops at Houston Center more, I can't even tell what they're doing to it (do we know if the Villalobos renderings above are part of the project?).

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by H-Town Man

[DrLan34]

This looks like The Shops might have significant changes.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by DrLan34

[mattyt36]

1 hour ago, DrLan34 said:

This looks like The Shops might have significant changes.

 

 

If so, why keep under wraps at the grand unveiling and the initial distribution of the marketing materials? It usually works in the opposite direction.

[swtsig]

the shops/4hc is far trickier - apparently a lot of the MEPs run along the outside of the structure so just "opening it up" isn't really feasible. as of now it's still somewhat of an unknown but it sounds like their preference is to bring in a real grocer... whether or not they can is another story.

 

all in all brookfield and gensler have done a great job, though.

[kbates2]

Real grocer is awesome, putting them right across the street from our only other grocer is less awesome.

[tigereye]

5 hours ago, DrLan34 said:

This looks like The Shops might have significant changes.

 

 

Considering the the amount of leases Brookfield let expire causing closures, I’d say a renovation of the Park Shops is still likely. But I am surprised at the lack of details on this side of the project. Also, in the below render, you can see a sliver of the Park Shops, which looks to be at least reclad in a new material. The squared up design is similar to the renders on the Gibran Villalobos site. 

 

9 hours ago, Urbannizer said:

 

[august948]

I assume the other grocer you're talking about is Phoenicia.  Since they're sort of a specialty store, they could co-exist just fine with a regular grocery store.  It would be convenient to have two complimentary stores next to each other.

[kbates2]

1 hour ago, august948 said:

I assume the other grocer you're talking about is Phoenicia.  Since they're sort of a specialty store, they could co-exist just fine with a regular grocery store.  It would be convenient to have two complimentary stores next to each other.

 

I shop at Phoenicia a pretty fair amount and while they have some specialty products for sure, they would still probably suffer more than benefit.  That said my comment is really in regards to proximity.  I live downtown and would even shop at Phoenicia more often if it was closer to me personally.  Adding the second downtown grocer directly next to the current doesn't help to make walking to the grocery store a reality for more downtown residents, just expands the options for the ones that live on that side.

Edited January 17, 2019 by kbates2

[Luminare]

12 minutes ago, kbates2 said:

 

I shop at Phoenicia a pretty fair amount and while they have some specialty products for sure, they would still probably suffer more than benefit.  That said my comment is really in regards to proximity.  I live downtown and would even shop at Phoenicia if it was closer to me personally.  Adding the second downtown grocer directly next to the current doesn't help to make walking to the grocery store a reality for more downtown residents, just expands the options for the ones that live on that side.

 

I get it, but lets explore this further. What happens when one grocer then gets another one near it? More competition. If that small area can all the sudden handle two grocers then hey Downtown can probably handle 3 grocers, but maybe we should try over there, and then another area and so on. The moment you have two instead of one it creates a competition, and competition breeds more competitors.

 

EDIT: I'm in no sense by the way dismissing what you said. Its viable, however, the logic just doesn't hold up if we look at different examples. If we were to apply your line of logic to say...Indian restaurants. Well one area really can only handle ONE Indian restaurant at a time...well then areas like Little India wouldn't even exist. Or take Bars for instance. There are tons of bars cropping up in The Heights. Well we really only need one patio bar. It just doesn't hold up.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Luminare

[kbates2]

Competition is good but that doesn't necessarily mean that both competitors survive, just that the better one will (or should).  This area may well be able to handle two and I would be happier for it.  I would hate to lose either but having two over there would be very cool.  That said, the initial point is the news of a grocer is awesome but if the grocer was a bit more spread out, the news would be more awesome.  

[downtownian]

Just now, kbates2 said:

Competition is good but that doesn't necessarily mean that both competitors survive, just that the better one will (or should).  This area may well be able to handle two and I would be happier for it.  I would hate to lose either but having two over there would be very cool.  That said, the initial point is the news of a grocer is awesome but if the grocer was a bit more spread out, the news would be more awesome.  

 

Agree. For example one at market square and Phoenicia would be great. Each anchoring a residential hub of downtown.

[kbates2]

19 minutes ago, Luminare said:

 

I get it, but lets explore this further. What happens when one grocer then gets another one near it? More competition. If that small area can all the sudden handle two grocers then hey Downtown can probably handle 3 grocers, but maybe we should try over there, and then another area and so on. The moment you have two instead of one it creates a competition, and competition breeds more competitors.

 

EDIT: I'm in no sense by the way dismissing what you said. Its viable, however, the logic just doesn't hold up if we look at different examples. If we were to apply your line of logic to say...Indian restaurants. Well one area really can only handle ONE Indian restaurant at a time...well then areas like Little India wouldn't even exist. Or take Bars for instance. There are tons of bars cropping up in The Heights. Well we really only need one patio bar. It just doesn't hold up.

 

Also the ability of areas to handle two of something is definitely not equal in all respects.  Two Indian restaurants and bars would be quite different than grocers.  We have bars all down main across from each other but 7 NBA teams in 7 stadiums across from each other wouldn't work the same.  I'm obviously using a lot of hyperbole here but just trying to make the general point.

[Luminare]

1 minute ago, kbates2 said:

 

Also the ability of areas to handle two of something is definitely not equal in all respects.  Two Indian restaurants and bars would be quite different than grocers.  We have bars all down main across from each other but 7 NBA teams in 7 stadiums across from each other wouldn't work the same.  I'm obviously using a lot of hyperbole here but just trying to make the general point.

 

Then we need to take a drive up to Gallery Furniture. Its the biggest competitor in town regarding furniture stores. Look around nothing, but other furniture competitors and they probably drop like flies every now and then, yet that area consistently has the highest concentration of furniture stores in the entire city. If either of the grocery stores do fail and die then fine, but the fact that the competition took place means that more are going to want to join the competition. To use your sports hyperbole, do those NBA teams play one game and if they fail the competition then they don't play another game all season? No. They play like 80 more games? Do they play one season? No they play many more seasons. They will keep playing because one game isn't enough to settle the score for good and the audience wants more games which means the supply isn't going to end. Its certainly possible for a city to handle 7 NBA teams if the supply for basketball is that ridiculous. Even your hyperbole still doesn't work because we have cities with 2 major competing sports franchises! Typically NYC and LA and there are many cities around the world which support multiple soccer franchises/clubs. Supply and Demand plus Competition is one of the few things in our reality that consistently scales both small and big. In only very few instances (and most times by decree or by force) is there a monopoly or an instance with only 1 entity exist without competition.

[Urbannizer]

https://www.bisnow.com/houston/news/retail/houston-center-to-undergo-massive-renovation-96765

 

The Shops at Houston Center is a major element to the overall vision for the development, Overall said. However, the center struggles due in part to a lack of any in-demand retailers, while it does offer a range of fast-food concepts. Occupancy for the retail wing stands at between 50% and 60%, according to Overall. "The retail has dropped, and we have allowed that to happen,” he said. “It gives us more flexibility to redevelop the shops when we don't have all these leases in place.” The redevelopment of the shops is planned for future expansion. Brookfield is actively studying the space, and Gensler is considering design plans, Overall said.  

[kbates2]

10 hours ago, Luminare said:

 

Then we need to take a drive up to Gallery Furniture. Its the biggest competitor in town regarding furniture stores. Look around nothing, but other furniture competitors and they probably drop like flies every now and then, yet that area consistently has the highest concentration of furniture stores in the entire city. If either of the grocery stores do fail and die then fine, but the fact that the competition took place means that more are going to want to join the competition. To use your sports hyperbole, do those NBA teams play one game and if they fail the competition then they don't play another game all season? No. They play like 80 more games? Do they play one season? No they play many more seasons. They will keep playing because one game isn't enough to settle the score for good and the audience wants more games which means the supply isn't going to end. Its certainly possible for a city to handle 7 NBA teams if the supply for basketball is that ridiculous. Even your hyperbole still doesn't work because we have cities with 2 major competing sports franchises! Typically NYC and LA and there are many cities around the world which support multiple soccer franchises/clubs. Supply and Demand plus Competition is one of the few things in our reality that consistently scales both small and big. In only very few instances (and most times by decree or by force) is there a monopoly or an instance with only 1 entity exist without competition.

 

Ok man, I won't fight with you.  Everything works in all numbers.

[H-Town Man]

11 hours ago, Luminare said:

 

I get it, but lets explore this further. What happens when one grocer then gets another one near it? More competition. If that small area can all the sudden handle two grocers then hey Downtown can probably handle 3 grocers, but maybe we should try over there, and then another area and so on. The moment you have two instead of one it creates a competition, and competition breeds more competitors.

 

EDIT: I'm in no sense by the way dismissing what you said. Its viable, however, the logic just doesn't hold up if we look at different examples. If we were to apply your line of logic to say...Indian restaurants. Well one area really can only handle ONE Indian restaurant at a time...well then areas like Little India wouldn't even exist. Or take Bars for instance. There are tons of bars cropping up in The Heights. Well we really only need one patio bar. It just doesn't hold up.

 

I don't think that there is synergy for grocery stores the way there is synergy for restaurants. People go to a restaurant district because it's lively and because they don't have to decide what to eat until they get there. I've never heard of someone wanting to go to a grocery store district. You shop for groceries out of necessity and most people don't really enjoy it. I personally like my grocery stores isolated with minimal traffic from other businesses.

 

[talltexan83]

FWIW, this approach does work in Australia.  In every major city in Australia, it's not uncommon to find Coles and Woolworths within a few hundred feet of each other.

[H-Town Man]

17 minutes ago, talltexan83 said:

FWIW, this approach does work in Australia.  In every major city in Australia, it's not uncommon to find Coles and Woolworths within a few hundred feet of each other.

 

They are probably doing what CVS and Walgreen's do, trying to take the other's market share in a strangling contest. If we are talking about what would be best for downtown, I don't think this is beneficial. It probably hurts Phoenicia and puts our first full-scale grocer in a suboptimal location. You're far from residents and surrounded by office workers, who don't traditionally make the best grocery customers. I would think a Target might be logical at this location. It could carry some groceries, the kinds of essential things that a worker might need to pick up one or two of on the way home.

 

[august948]

If they can market it the right way, they might be able to sell downtown workers on the click-and-pickup sort of thing they are doing elsewhere.  It'd be convenient to set up an order you can swing by and pick up on your way out of downtown after work.  I know HEB and Kroger are doing that sort of thing now in stores.  That would go a long way to supporting a downtown grocer, regardless of where they are located downtown.

 

Or they can put in a Buc-ee's.  That would be awesome.

Edited January 17, 2019 by august948

[Nate99]

33 minutes ago, august948 said:

 

Or they can put in a Buc-ee's.  That would be awesome.

 

I like it. They would need a restroom bouncer unless they wanted it to become a homeless shelter though. 

[rechlin]

Has the construction begun, or is this work at 2 Houston Center an unrelated project?