SMUrban Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I know this topic was talked about in another thread (Pavilions, I think), but I don't believe it has it's own thread. Anyways I was in Houston for a wedding last weekend and I was staying at the Four Seasons, so I wandered across the bridge to the shops to check them out. Very pathetic, horrible tenant mix, nobody was there (granted it was a Sat.) but there was definitely A LOT of potential. It was very similar to the Galleria..design wise and obviously on a much smaller scale. I was thinking if they opened it up to the street more and/or the outside in general it would be a very enjoyable experience, as I wandered around I found a newspaper like receptacle that had the Houston Center's "Magazine", anyways it was basically all about the planned renovation. They plan to make it an "Urban Park" inside, in fact they used that term A LOT. They have some of the info. on their website if you want to check it out, but it's much more in-depth in the mag, I'd scan it if I had the technology and the knowledge, unfortunately I have neither.Construction Update 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houstonian in Iraq Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Yeah I'm sure it's looking really bad.Last I checked about two months ago there was still some major renovating.I'm hoping they do find some better tenants if not to replace the lousy ones they have now at leastto fill in all the empty spaces.More ground retail and maybe a few more windows would make it a bit more appealing to potenial shoppers.Ultimately, the complete renovated Houston center along with the new Houston Pavilion will spark a major much needed urban retail district. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE CHAD IS GREAT Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Yeah I was at a Rockets game and I wanted to take a look at The Shops, but it was depressing because there was no street level retail shops. I was just dissapointed because it looked so empty. I'll be glad when I can actually see progress going on between the Houston Pavillions and The Park Shops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houstonian in Iraq Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I know this topic was talked about in another thread (Pavilions, I think), but I don't believe it has it's own thread. Anyways I was in Houston for a wedding last weekend and I was staying at the Four Seasons, so I wandered across the bridge to the shops to check them out. Very pathetic, horrible tenant mix, nobody was there (granted it was a Sat.) but there was definitely A LOT of potential. It was very similar to the Galleria..design wise and obviously on a much smaller scale. I was thinking if they opened it up to the street more and/or the outside in general it would be a very enjoyable experience, as I wandered around I found a newspaper like receptacle that had the Houston Center's "Magazine", anyways it was basically all about the planned renovation. They plan to make it an "Urban Park" inside, in fact they used that term A LOT. They have some of the info. on their website if you want to check it out, but it's much more in-depth in the mag, I'd scan it if I had the technology and the knowledge, unfortunately I have neither.Construction Update THis hasn't much to do with this thread, but if you click on the link above and scroll down there are pictures of my old Elementry school........ahhh th memories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) Last time I was in Houston with my sister, I went for a joy ride through downtown after I dropped her off at work. I went in to the shops to see what they were like. I thought that it looks like a mini Galleria. I have always wondered why people don't talk about this place. I was one of the few people walking around in there. That place could really be something, but it would take away from the street activity in downtown. Later that day when my sister and I got back to her place I told here that there was a mall in downtown and she said:"Duh! there building a big mall down there" she was refering to the Pavilions. Then I told here that I knew that they where building the think called Pavillion, but there is one downtown already called Houston Center. I was supprised that she did not know about it, I asked other people and they didn't know either. I wonder why this place isn't known???I consider the tunnel system to be like a mall also. (although I have only been in the part under Foley's) PS: When I left Houston Center parking garage I had to pay like $2-3, and I only stayed mabe 30-1 hour. I had thought before I had entered there it had said free for under an hour. I guess I was wrong. Edited January 18, 2006 by citykid09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwright1 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 It would be a great place if it were renovated the right way. It's all wrong. Why can't there be some street level retail or why can't you enter some of the malls stores and restaurants from the street? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesternGulf Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) It would be a great place if it were renovated the right way. It's all wrong. Why can't there be some street level retail or why can't you enter some of the malls stores and restaurants from the street? I know. I just dodge the place all together unless Chick-fil-A is giving out the free Chicken biscuits. I don't care how nice the place is, I have a hard time enjoying an indoor mall. I even hate the Galleria. I know this sounds funny, but I even find the high end part of the Galleria, from Chanel to Dior, beautiful, but I hate going to the place because I find the shopping experience rather dull. Edited January 13, 2006 by WesternGulf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssullivan Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 It would be a great place if it were renovated the right way. It's all wrong. Why can't there be some street level retail or why can't you enter some of the malls stores and restaurants from the street?The first renovation stages did address this, and you can enter Jos. A. Bank Clothiers and the Twisted Fork restaurant directly from the sidewalk on San Jacinto St. as well as from inside the mall.A lot of the issue with this problem is the building's basic design that has the vast majority of the retail space elevated above ground level, with all the utilities and physcial plant facilities underneath at street level. That presents a big challenge to opening up more street-level retail. But they have done what they could given these restraints.I believe there is some unleased ground-level retail space on the back side of the building along Austin St. as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 The Shops does pretty well at lunchtime. I'm sure they do a bang up jub when it rains, too. True, the design is from the 70s, when enclosed spaces were all the rage. It is hard to convert that to outside looking space.The difference between this and Pavillions is that this place caters to working crowds. The Pavillions is aiming to be a destination for those who are visiting downtown, with its collection of "unique" retailers and restaurants. For that reason, the Shops will always be seen by most people as second rate. It is a utilitarian place that serves a lunchtime purpose. Even downtown workers who eat there don't brag on it, they just eat there because it is there, conveniently located for Houston Center workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Yes, the Shop are cheek-to-cheek during lunch. Don't miss the Dumplings on Level One. Even Dress Barn does a good business. The Twisted Fork is low grade dog food. Overall the place has gone down hill since Brooks Bros. & the jewelery store left right after you know what happened.I would love to see the Parks/Pavillions/Foleys connected via a pedestrian zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokieone Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 They did at least re-do the food court area, which is the main reason the place exists currently. New carpet, added the plasma TV's. I also use Larry North gym which is one level up. Its funny to go there after work around 6-ish and the entire mall is basically closed and/or empty. the only things I think open later are the Longhorn cafe and Sbarro. Everything else is done by like 3. Its got a long way to go, but they decided to first work on the thing people are actually using, which is the food court area. Makes sense to me.Tenant mix is a big problem. An Aeros merchandise store? About 10 glorified gift shops? The bookstore in there is horrendous too. Its more of a newstand than anything, I see people in there usually just to buy magazines. The Dozo dumplings is probably the most popular thing there, thinking about it makes me want to head over there today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwright1 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Why even waste time spending millions of dollars renovating something that's only caters to weekday lunchtime crowds and is deserted the rest of the time. It makes absolutely no sense. Houston, WAKE UP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Why even waste time spending millions of dollars renovating something that's only caters to weekday lunchtime crowds and is deserted the rest of the time. It makes absolutely no sense. Houston, WAKE UP. I first heard of the The Shops at Houston Center was as "the tunnel", through friends and family 10 years ago, and I thought it was a myth. My aunt finally took me there just to prove that a mall downtown really existed. First thing I noticed were the amount of space and shops, but lack of customers. There's a lack of customers there mostly because there's a lack of knowledge about the place. I think pwright1 is right. Why would you want to spend mad money on a project when few Houstonians even go there or know it exists, then at the same time spend millions to build Houston Pavillions just blocks away? If people weren't going there before, and there's not a BIG advertizing campaign (via TV) for The Shops, how can you expect people to start going there and filling up this place AFTER Houston Pavillions gets built? Why would retailers not want to move to Houston Pavillions after it's completed? They are putting mad money into this project because they believe The Shops can be one of the premier malls in Houston revenue wise, right? Because if not, what exactly is the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houstonian in Iraq Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I first heard of the The Shops at Houston Center was as "the tunnel", through friends and family 10 years ago, and I thought it was a myth. My aunt finally took me there just to prove that a mall downtown really existed. First thing I noticed were the amount of space and shops, but lack of customers. There's a lack of customers there mostly because there's a lack of knowledge about the place. I think pwright1 is right. Why would you want to spend mad money on a project when few Houstonians even go there or know it exists, then at the same time spend millions to build Houston Pavillions just blocks away? If people weren't going there before, and there's not a BIG advertizing campaign (via TV) for The Shops, how can you expect people to start going there and filling up this place AFTER Houston Pavillions gets built? Why would retailers not want to move to Houston Pavillions after it's completed? They are putting mad money into this project because they believe The Shops can be one of the premier malls in Houston revenue wise, right? Because if not, what exactly is the point? I believe the people running the The Shops see potential in it. Yeah they haven't been too big on getting the word out about the the Shops, mainly because they just catered to the 9-5 crowd(lunch crowd) and were okay with that. But now that the Houston Pavilions will be going up they may see a surge in Downtown Houston retail, and they want in on it. So therefore they are sprucing up the place. Some of those Houston Pavilion customers might just spill over two blocks over to their place while looking for parking or just walking around the area. As for retailers moving there I'm sure the pavilions will run out of space and retailers who don't get in it will look at the next best thing (concentration of retail) The Shops. I don't think that they expect to make it into a premier mall but just to compliment the Pavilions and to get a downtown retail district going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesternGulf Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 (edited) Downtown malls are hell or should I say malls in general. The day of the mall is definitely dead and there has not been one constructed in Americaf for years, except for the one in Orlando and I guess the one at AOL Time Warner Center at Columbus Circle in NYC. Edited January 17, 2006 by WesternGulf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike1 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 The first renovation stages did address this, and you can enter Jos. A. Bank Clothiers and the Twisted Fork restaurant directly from the sidewalk on San Jacinto St. as well as from inside the mall.A lot of the issue with this problem is the building's basic design that has the vast majority of the retail space elevated above ground level, with all the utilities and physcial plant facilities underneath at street level. That presents a big challenge to opening up more street-level retail. But they have done what they could given these restraints.I believe there is some unleased ground-level retail space on the back side of the building along Austin St. as well.Agreed. From the outside, the building feel like a fortress instead of a retail center. It feels as if they want to keep people out instead of inviting them in to shop! Not very inviting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike1 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I lived out in San Diego for a few years and was always impressed with Horton Plaza. Of course, almost all of the malls in Southern California are outside, sometimes constructed in a park-like setting. I'm glad to see that at least from the plans, the new Pavillions will look a lot like Horton. Too bad they couldn't take out the skylights and walls to make The Park Shops into more of an outdoor plaza as well. It would certainly be more integrated into surrounding area. Weather might be an issue, though.Check out this picture on this link:http://www.photohome.com/photos/california...on-plaza-1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Downtown malls are hell or should I say malls in general. The day of the mall is definitely dead and there has not been one constructed in Americaf for years, except for the one in Orlando and I guess the one at AOL Time Warner Center at Columbus Circle in NYC.I think you've overstated it more than a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Downtown malls are hell or should I say malls in general. The day of the mall is definitely dead and there has not been one constructed in Americaf for years, except for the one in Orlando and I guess the one at AOL Time Warner Center at Columbus Circle in NYC.Not exactly sure why you feel that way. TheGalleria's a mall, and the #1 tourist destination in Houston. Could you explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I believe the people running the The Shops see potential in it. Yeah they haven't been too big on getting the word out about the the Shops, mainly because they just catered to the 9-5 crowd(lunch crowd) and were okay with that. But now that the Houston Pavilions will be going up they may see a surge in Downtown Houston retail, and they want in on it. So therefore they are sprucing up the place. Some of those Houston Pavilion customers might just spill over two blocks over to their place while looking for parking or just walking around the area. As for retailers moving there I'm sure the pavilions will run out of space and retailers who don't get in it will look at the next best thing (concentration of retail) The Shops. I don't think that they expect to make it into a premier mall but just to compliment the Pavilions and to get a downtown retail district going. I do hope that whenever Houston Pavillions gets close to opening up, The Shops has some kind of "we exist" advertizement campaign to get people going to both establishments. I really would like to see The Shops successful, but I'm really blown away by the lack of knowledge that a place like that is already there (a downtown mall). But I'm optomistic as well. Let's see what The Shops can do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwright1 Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 A mall dt would be great imo. Nothing big with 200 stores, but something to attract big name retail and blend in with street level stores. No big city in america has street level stores exclusively. Look at Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, and even New York. That's why I love Pacific Place. Only about 40 stores, but is a great impact to the dt Seattle retail core. There's San Francisco Centre, Pacific Place, Water Tower Place. Just design it right where you can enter some of the stores from the street. The huge mall in dt Philadelphia is way to big imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citizen4rmptown Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Whats your opinion about the shops? they have a wide selection for food and "dining" but retail wise they are falling behind.. plus they use most of the empy spaces to advertise for other stores... Although i think its great for what they do have.. I went yesterday with an aunt from mexico and we went to the grocery store at the end, and she asked (in spanish) "Why do they have all this stuff here?" i replied with a quote i heard in this forum ... but back to your opinion..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 It houses Doozo, and that's reason enough to venerate it. I wouldn't say they are "falling behind" on retail. I've been there on and off for 15 years and they've never had much retail. It's downtown's food court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I always thought it had a lot of potential, but outside of office workers and maybe now because of the park, there isn't much interest in this as a destination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Hizzy! Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I've accepted it for what it is: it's a useful and popular place for lunchtime crowds and convenience shopping but it's not a "destination". It's not meant to be the talk of the town or any other town.I'm sure that it can evolve as downtown evolves but right now, it seems to work pretty well for what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wernicke Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 The exterior and entry points are so uninviting... I've always thought this place was lame. I don't think it is rehabilitate-able either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livincinco Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 The exterior and entry points are so uninviting... I've always thought this place was lame. I don't think it is rehabilitate-able either.It becomes more appealing for retail once One Park Place and some of the other proposed residential development goes in downtown. It's walking distance for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 The exterior and entry points are so uninviting... I've always thought this place was lame. I don't think it is rehabilitate-able either.The tunnels lead straight into it. It invites the people it wants to invite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wernicke Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 The tunnels lead straight into it. It invites the people it wants to invite. So they consciously didn't want to invite more people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 So they consciously didn't want to invite more people? You'd have to ask the folks who designed it. My guess is, no, they didn't go out of their way to invite people from the streets. People on the streets downtown are usually losers who can't afford Chik-Fil-A. Why bother with doors for street people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.