Retail On Main Street

[totheskies]

I dig the Beaver, but there is NO WAY it works downtown. The entire concept is built around being a road stop. A clean place to pee, fill up the car, and get the screaming kids to shut up for the next hour while they stuff their faces with Icees and Beaver Nuggets. Would a Buc-ees make money without the ability to move tons of gas?

However, when the new Marriott Marquis opens, then maybe the convention bureau needs to open a retail joint in the lobby filled with Texana stuff that the tourists can buy that would also market stuff to the park (convenience store stuff).

Buc-ee's is so much more than a gas station... It's become a true Texas brand. Besides beaver swag and beautimus bathrooms, Buc-ee's could bring a bulwark of boisterous dining options. They have great food at the one in Madsonville, and it's all grab-n-go. Absolutely BUILT for downtown Houston. Edited June 18, 2013 by totheskies

[august948]

Buc-ee's is so much more than a gas station... It's become a true Texas brand. Besides beaver swag and beautimus bathrooms, Buc-ee's could bring a bulwark of boisterous dining options. They have great food at the one in Madsonville, and it's all grab-n-go. Absolutely BUILT for downtown Houston.

 

Actually, having a Buc-ee's with gas pumps could be a good move.  Not many gas stations in downtown.

[arrodiii]

Buc-ee's is so much more than a gas station... It's become a true Texas brand. Besides beaver swag and beautimus bathrooms, Buc-ee's could bring a bulwark of boisterous dining options. They have great food at the one in Madsonville, and it's all grab-n-go. Absolutely BUILT for downtown Houston.

 

But no, I don't think that it will work - it's a gas station. Just because they sell shirts and other branded items doesn't mean that it will bring in revenue like in their other stores without providing gas. And honestly, I wouldn't want a Buc-ee's in downtown.  I would rather have a workable market, more restaurants and bars, and another macy's, or similar department store.

Edited June 18, 2013 by arrodiii

[KinkaidAlum]

No it isn't. Buc-ees is a gas station with an incredible brand and gimmick but people aren't going to go there when they aren't on the road. 

 

I've been to the Buc-ees in Madisonville, the one in Luling, and the newer one in Bastrop. Heck, just today they announced one for Baytown along I-10. Those places make sense because tens of thousands pass by them in their CARS daily. 

[Triton]

I have this feeling that totheskies is trolling

[august948]

But no, I don't think that it will work - it's a gas station. Just because they sell shirts and other branded items doesn't mean that it will bring in revenue like in their other stores without providing gas. And honestly, I wouldn't want a Buc-ee's in downtown.  I would rather have a workable market, more restaurants and bars, and another macy's, or similar department store.

Most of the revenue for gas station/convenience stores comes from merchandise, not gas. They frequently sell at near cost (for them) just to be competitive. That's what Buc-ee's figured out so well. They are able to draw people into the store where they line up to buy stuff. Still think it could work in the city. Especially if they put up the 100 foot beaver beacon.

[LarryDierker]

 Especially if they put up the 100 foot beaver beacon.

 

Signs in downtown are limited to 42.5 feet, unless it is the companies national headquarters and the company occupies at least 45% of the building that the sign is on.

 

http://documents.publicworks.houstontx.gov/documents/divisions/planning/enforcement/signcode20110902.pdf

 

Section 4609 (E)(2)

Edited June 18, 2013 by LarryDierker

[august948]

Signs in downtown are limited to 42.5 feet, unless it is the companies national headquarters and the company occupies at least 45% of the building that the sign is on.

 

http://documents.publicworks.houstontx.gov/documents/divisions/planning/enforcement/signcode20110902.pdf

 

Section 4609 (E)(2)

Well then, we just need to get them to relocate. It'd definitely give us a one-up on NYC for corporate headquarters. Rename one of the downtown buildings Beaver Tower. Maybe that's where we could put a downtown Treasure's as well.

[TGM]

Well then, we just need to get them to relocate. It'd definitely give us a one-up on NYC for corporate headquarters. Rename one of the downtown buildings Beaver Tower. Maybe that's where we could put a downtown Treasure's as well.

Has anyone contacted the mayors office about this idea?

[mkultra25]

We need a Treasures in the tunnels.  

 

 

And a gun range.

 

"This is my rifle, this is my gun..."

[totheskies]

I have this feeling that totheskies is trolling

 

Why do you say that?  You should probably be careful to lodge such accusations. 

 

 

 

Y'all don't have to like the idea... that's the point of having a forum.  But in my opinion, downtown needs to do some things to increase it's tourist appeal. 

 

On Monday I took the day off and decided to catch the bus downtown.  I had lunch at Phoenicia, then rode the Green Link bus over to City Hall.  I checked out the one gift shop we do have, and went to the Ideson Library, then decided to get some pictures from the observation decks. 

 

At the Chase tower deck, I met a whole group (8 people) of tourists from China.  They were all taking pictures in the deck, and they stopped me to ask where they PAY to be able to exit.  I told them that Houston's ob decks are free, and they were floored.  I'm sure most of us have been to New York, and paid 40, 50 bucks for the "privilege" of going into the Empire State Building.  The fact that we just dismiss our downtown as something unworthy of a true tourist infrastructure really upsets me.  Downtown Houston has lots of fun, interesting things to do, and we need to start acting like it!! 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2013 by totheskies

[Chi-Char-Hou-Dal]

You should have charged them $20 bones each

[Nate99]

Well then, we just need to get them to relocate. It'd definitely give us a one-up on NYC for corporate headquarters. Rename one of the downtown buildings Beaver Tower. Maybe that's where we could put a downtown Treasure's as well.

 

Now that's some marketing synergy right there.

 

Plus, we all know how conventioneers like gift shops and peeler joints

[Triton]

Why do you say that?  You should probably be careful to lodge such accusations. 

 

Well ok... but your " Absolutely BUILT for downtown Houston." sounded sarcastic and even the rest of that comment for that matter. It's not unreasonable to make one think you are trolling...

[totheskies]

Well ok... but your " Absolutely BUILT for downtown Houston." sounded sarcastic and even the rest of that comment for that matter. It's not unreasonable to make one think you are trolling...

 

So it's a crime to like Buc-ee's and downtown so much that you feel the need to capitalize?? 

 

No beaver nuggets for you. 

[infinite_jim]

I prefer Stuckey's. 

[Nate99]

Swamplot linked to an article that mentioned the Spencer's in the Hilton Americas will soon be a Pappasito's.

 

That is going to do very well.

 

I'd like to see something similar at the new Marriott. Goode Company perhaps?

[arrodiii]

If we are talking about food, I wouldn't mind an expansion of Gatlin's BBQ especially if it were away from Pierce and Pappa's BBQ

[htownproud]

Walmart.  106 pages of comments on the Heights/Walmart page can't be wrong.  The City could enter a 380 agreement to fund tunnel improvements.  Nothing controversial with those.  

[august948]

Walmart. 106 pages of comments on the Heights/Walmart page can't be wrong. The City could enter a 380 agreement to fund tunnel improvements. Nothing controversial with those.

Edited June 25, 2013 by august948

[livincinco]

Dead serious how many residents would DT need to shift the attitude change and make DT CBD he new hot spot. I'm not really interested in debating suburbs v DT but I feel DT has so much pos momentum regarding living and social aspects but the lechuguga seems to be heading north and west. There will always be law firms and smaller O&G I guess I am asking does 10k residents help DT office landscape or is it just another albeit new neighborhood to live - again this is far from bashing DT- look at my post history I'm thinking big pic

Cheers

Lorenz

 

Personally, I don't think that the amount of residential population in downtown impacts office development in that area that much.  Right now at least, that seems to be much more heavily driven by cost judging by the developments that are underway.

 

I do think that residential population is huge in driving the kind of retail development that people are looking for downtown and would agree that something around 10k is the right number.  From what I've read from various sources, that seems to be the tipping point in being able to support basic neighborhood retail.

 

 

[cloud713]

Personally, I don't think that the amount of residential population in downtown impacts office development in that area that much.  Right now at least, that seems to be much more heavily driven by cost judging by the developments that are underway.

 

I do think that residential population is huge in driving the kind of retail development that people are looking for downtown and would agree that something around 10k is the right number.  From what I've read from various sources, that seems to be the tipping point in being able to support basic neighborhood retail.

if 10,000 is the tipping point, we are well on our way to passing that figure. before the residential initiative there were ~2,500 units in downtown, and close to 5,000 residents i believe. with this initiative and the projects announced so far we are at like 3,500 new units being built in downtown over the next few years, more than doubling the population. (i would like to see that trend continue and have a base of like 25-50k residents in downtown eventually..)

with that said i really hope the city raises the cap for the number of residential units that get incentives, since they are well past that 2,500 mark now. it would be a shame if they didnt raise it and some of these developments didnt happen because they didnt get in with the first 2,500 units of incentives. 

[livincinco]

if 10,000 is the tipping point, we are well on our way to passing that figure. before the residential initiative there were ~2,500 units in downtown, and close to 5,000 residents i believe. with this initiative and the projects announced so far we are at like 3,500 new units being built in downtown over the next few years, more than doubling the population. (i would like to see that trend continue and have a base of like 25-50k residents in downtown eventually..)

with that said i really hope the city raises the cap for the number of residential units that get incentives, since they are well past that 2,500 mark now. it would be a shame if they didnt raise it and some of these developments didnt happen because they didnt get in with the first 2,500 units of incentives. 

 

I think you're right and believe that the city has been doing the right thing by focusing on residential incentives to get the population up.  The retail demand will come with the population.  I'd be really surprised though if the downtown population gets even close to 25-50k in the near ten years.  Consider that the population of Midtown isn't even 10,000 yet and that's been developing for years.

 

[cloud713]

true.. i didnt really give a time frame, though id like that to be achieved sooner rather than later (20 years or so?). ive heard Dallas has like 40,000 people living downtown (though maybe they were using that dallasified stretching of boundaries to boost numbers, by including uptown and the surrounding residential areas into "downtown"). if true, id imagine a lot of that has to do with them having so much empty office space they had to convert a number of buildings over to residential.. hopefully a problem Houston never has.

[H-Town Man]

I think you're right and believe that the city has been doing the right thing by focusing on residential incentives to get the population up.  The retail demand will come with the population.  I'd be really surprised though if the downtown population gets even close to 25-50k in the near ten years.  Consider that the population of Midtown isn't even 10,000 yet and that's been developing for years.

 

 

true.. i didnt really give a time frame, though id like that to be achieved sooner rather than later (20 years or so?). ive heard Dallas has like 40,000 people living downtown (though maybe they were using that dallasified stretching of boundaries to boost numbers, by including uptown and the surrounding residential areas into "downtown"). if true, id imagine a lot of that has to do with them having so much empty office space they had to convert a number of buildings over to residential.. hopefully a problem Houston never has.

 

Dallas doesn't have anywhere near that, unless they're casting the net really large for "downtown." Using the center of each downtown as the focal point, Houston has higher pop. than Dallas at the 1 mile, 3 mile, and 5 mile radii, as of 2010 census.

 

Try it yourself:

http://mcdc2.missouri.edu/websas/caps.html

 

For this magic number of 10,000, I would think the office worker population must contribute something to helping retail, if only a little. Let's say an office worker equals 1/100th of an actual resident (very conservative estimate), since the resident is there 24 hours and the office worker is a typical Houston fuddy-duddy who just goes from car to office to car each day and crawls in the tunnels for lunch. Take the downtown worker population of ~150,000 and that gives you approximately 1,500 souls who occasionally emerge from the HVAC environment and chance a street-level retail experience.

 

Another phenomenon that must be considered is that as there are more downtown residents walking around, more office workers are likely to be lured outside. Right now the downtown worker sees mostly just homeless people from the tinted windows of his car as he drives in and leaves; once he starts seeing a few thousand people-that-look-like-him about, he is more likely to risk fresh air and sun exposure and step outside. So from 1/100th of a resident he soon becomes 1/50th, 1/25th, maybe even someday 1/10th of a resident in his ability to support street retail. Something like this phenomenon is happening in Austin and has happened in Atlanta. And 1/10th would mean 15,000 downtown workers walking our streets.

[nativehoustonion]

Downtown Dallas does not have population of 10,000.  And all their office buildings are empty.  They are including  Victory Park and Uptown and that is a maybe. 

[livincinco]

Dallas doesn't have anywhere near that, unless they're casting the net really large for "downtown." Using the center of each downtown as the focal point, Houston has higher pop. than Dallas at the 1 mile, 3 mile, and 5 mile radii, as of 2010 census.

 

Try it yourself:

http://mcdc2.missouri.edu/websas/caps.html

 

For this magic number of 10,000, I would think the office worker population must contribute something to helping retail, if only a little. Let's say an office worker equals 1/100th of an actual resident (very conservative estimate), since the resident is there 24 hours and the office worker is a typical Houston fuddy-duddy who just goes from car to office to car each day and crawls in the tunnels for lunch. Take the downtown worker population of ~150,000 and that gives you approximately 1,500 souls who occasionally emerge from the HVAC environment and chance a street-level retail experience.

 

Another phenomenon that must be considered is that as there are more downtown residents walking around, more office workers are likely to be lured outside. Right now the downtown worker sees mostly just homeless people from the tinted windows of his car as he drives in and leaves; once he starts seeing a few thousand people-that-look-like-him about, he is more likely to risk fresh air and sun exposure and step outside. So from 1/100th of a resident he soon becomes 1/50th, 1/25th, maybe even someday 1/10th of a resident in his ability to support street retail. Something like this phenomenon is happening in Austin and has happened in Atlanta. And 1/10th would mean 15,000 downtown workers walking our streets.

 

The reason that a residential population is so important to retail is more about evenings and weekends.  Most retail businesses do a high percentage of their volume on weekends and are generally reluctant to open in areas that they don't generate that volume.  Very difficult to be profitable as a retailer off of daytime, weekday business.

 

Look at Wall Street which has an extremely dense office population, but virtually no residential in the immediate area. It has a much lower retail presence than the rest of Manhattan and virtually all businesses located there close on weekends.

[H-Town Man]

The reason that a residential population is so important to retail is more about evenings and weekends.  Most retail businesses do a high percentage of their volume on weekends and are generally reluctant to open in areas that they don't generate that volume.  Very difficult to be profitable as a retailer off of daytime, weekday business.

 

Look at Wall Street which has an extremely dense office population, but virtually no residential in the immediate area. It has a much lower retail presence than the rest of Manhattan and virtually all businesses located there close on weekends.

 

 

I agree, and I believe that this consideration is factored into the 1/100th estimate.  Surely the 150,000 people who work downtown must contribute something toward the success of retail? Not very much, but something?

[fernz]

I agree, and I believe that this consideration is factored into the 1/100th estimate. Surely the 150,000 people who work downtown must contribute something toward the success of retail? Not very much, but something?

They do contribute, that's why you have all the fast food restaurants in the tunnels. Beyond that, they don't support much more.

[livincinco]

I agree, and I believe that this consideration is factored into the 1/100th estimate. Surely the 150,000 people who work downtown must contribute something toward the success of retail? Not very much, but something?

Totally agree with you and that's obviously a huge factor in the retail that exists, but I'm not sure what percentage of workers shop near their job vs. the percentage that shop near their houses. I'm sure that data exists, I just haven't seen it.