METRORail University Line

[zaphod]

I dont really completely agree that the tunnel system is preventing street retail, nor do i think that the heat is doing that either. I think that if downtown had more people actually living in it, it would have street level retail co-existing with the tunnels. I think the tunnels are there to serve office workers, providing fast food and services, while if we got street retail it would cater more to residents, with nicer stores selling things like shoes and electronics and groceries, and etc.

Going down Main the rail passes building after building with for sale or for lease signs in the windows. Nobody is on the street. It is a ghost town. It appears maybe some property was bought and demolished by speculators (I'm speculating) but a lot of that has for sale signs too. After riding the rail and looking at it with my eyeballs I'm wondering what would become of Richmond if the rail goes down it. The businesses along Main are empty or closed and if rail really brought customers to these businesses they would be open.

Didnt main look like crap before the train?

All i ever noticed before the train was the buses everywhere stopping in the middle of the road so i forgot

[gavoodi]

Monday through Friday, a quarter million people work downtown. There are numerous businesses, including restaurants, that cater to that quarter million people. On Saturday, that quarter million people are not at work. Therefore, those businesses that cater to that quarter million people do not open. The train has nothing to do with the stores being closed. Economics does.

The fare you paid to get on the bus allows you to transfer to the train without paying an additional fare. Technically, you should get a transfer pass to prove you paid, but you did not need to pay again.

BTW - If you had been on the train with me at lunch yesterday, you would not have been able to find a seat.

I've read posters on this forum writing about how businesses on Richmond should be happy to have rail customers delivered to their doors. Obviously the rail is not delivering them on Saturdays. It's not like people don't go out on Saturday. Maybe the people riding the rail just aren't stopping to shop and eat. If they were one would not see miles of for lease signs down Main.

[nmainguy]

Emails sent once again. I wish I had a nickle for every one I've sent in suport of the U Line on Richmond.

I also wish I had a dime for everyone who has complained about for lease signs on the Red Line. I'd be stinkin' rich.

[gavoodi]

Emails sent once again. I wish I had a nickle for every one I've sent in supoort of the U Line on Richmond.

I also wish I had a dime for everyone who has complained about for lease signs on the Red Line. I'd be stinkin' rich.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Emails sent once again. I wish I had a nickle for every one I've sent in supoort of the U Line on Richmond.

I also wish I had a dime for everyone who has complained about for lease signs on the Red Line. I'd be stinkin' rich.

i wonder if the complainers actually took a ride on the existing train line. the garbage they spew in opposition to expansion of the rail line would be nipped in the bud if they bothered to look at the existing line and ridership numbers............

[gavoodi]

i wonder if the complainers actually took a ride on the existing train line. the garbage they spew in opposition to expansion of the rail line would be nipped in the bud if they bothered to look at the existing line and ridership numbers............

Ha Ha. I rode it today for free. I bet lots of people do the same thing. There's nobody to check if riders have a ticket or not.

If so many people are riding this then why is Main street dead? I read a lot of posts from you rail pumpers that rail is going to deliver customers to businesses on the rail line. It sure doesn't look like that is happening on Main!

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Ha Ha. I rode it today for free. I bet lots of people do the same thing. There's nobody to check if riders have a ticket or not.

If so many people are riding this then why is Main street dead? I read a lot of posts from you rail pumpers that rail is going to deliver customers to businesses on the rail line. It sure doesn't look like that is happening on Main!

Now you should do the good citizen thing and turn yourself in to the authorities. I hope you are not advocating breakage of the law? Turn yourself in and pay the fine, then ask your questions.

[nmainguy]

Ha Ha. I rode it today for free.

You may want to avoid so publicly advertising that you steal free rides on METRO. It kind of makes your posts regarding LRT irrelevant and moot.

In addition, you may be turned in and fined a hefty sum. I wonder if they have a bounty? I would love to be the one to see you knabbed.

[gavoodi]

Now you should do the good citizen thing and turn yourself in to the authorities. I hope you are not advocating breakage of the law? Turn yourself in and pay the fine, then ask your questions.

I'm not advocating breaking the law by riding the train for free but I am saying it is real easy to do and I bet a lot of people do it. I tell you what I'll pay another visit to the deserted businesses lining the Main street rail line next week (the businesses a lot of metro tool posters say should have plenty or rail customers) and I'll try to check out whether people are actually buying tickets or just riding for free.

[YakuzaIce]

Now you should do the good citizen thing and turn yourself in to the authorities. I hope you are not advocating breakage of the law? Turn yourself in and pay the fine, then ask your questions.

Well he paid for the bus, so technically he was allowed to ride the rail. But gavoodi I already told you that they do random checks, and unless you only get caught once every year and a half (if you ride every day) it is not very economical to not purchase a ticket.

Also I have been down Richmond before when not many people were going to the stores. So can I assume that building the road was bad for the area? Perhaps you should base your assumptions off of more than one experience. Also I guess most of the for lease signs you are talking about are in the Midtown area. Because I am sure you aren't talking about the TMC/Museum district. As for Downtown, I know the building next to Clarks is for lease, and the one next to Jefe Bar is for sale. Perhaps you confused some of the advertisements for St. Germain, Franklin Lofts, and Commerce Towers for abandoned retail?

[gavoodi]

Well he paid for the bus, so technically he was allowed to ride the rail. But gavoodi I already told you that they do random checks, and unless you only get caught once every year and a half (if you ride every day) it is not very economical to not purchase a ticket.

Also I have been down Richmond before when not many people were going to the stores. So can I assume that building the road was bad for the area? Perhaps you should base your assumptions off of more than one experience. Also I guess most of the for lease signs you are talking about are in the Midtown area. Because I am sure you aren't talking about the TMC/Museum district. As for Downtown, I know the building next to Clarks is for lease, and the one next to Jefe Bar is for sale. Perhaps you confused some of the advertisements for St. Germain, Franklin Lofts, and Commerce Towers for abandoned retail?

Get in your car (or I suppose in your case the bus) and drive down Richmond and see how many for lease signs you see on abandoned businesses. You don't see many. Next get on the Main street rail from Rice or wherever and just ride it down the street. There is a stark difference between Main and Rickmond. Main street is depopulated with virtually no commerce. Look for yourself.

[YakuzaIce]

Get in your car (or I suppose in your case the bus) and drive down Richmond and see how many for lease signs you see on abandoned businesses. You don't see many. Next get on the Main street rail from Rice or wherever and just ride it down the street. There is a stark difference between Main and Rickmond. Main street is depopulated with virtually no commerce. Look for yourself.

Well since there is not a very direct route, I would just drive. Though I really despise driving, well unless it is driving between cities and towns, then I don't mind it as much. But enough about that. My point was that you should not judge an area based on this one visit. Also in Downtown's case you should also realize there are dozens of restaurants and shops under your feet. As for Midtown, compared to a few years ago, I would say it is much better.

[KinkaidAlum]

Gavoodi-

You're a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing!

If you have been reading these forums, then you would know that downtown doesn't hop until NIGHT TIME on the weekends. It is 7:22 pm and you are already home?

Gee, what a surprise that the bars and restaurants weren't packed. What, was the lunch crowd gone at FOUR?!!?!?!?!

Oh, and what a surprise that on a midafternoon on a Saturday in April with no special events, that the light rail was busting out with riders. I am sure the 250,000 downtown workers who were absent, the TMC at about half staff, and no classes at UH-Downtown, HCC Central, South Texas College of Law, Rice, and the host of schools in the TMC had nothing to do with that.

And, Golly Gee, in the two years that light rail has been up and running and the few short years since it was announced, we've only seen the Hotel Icon, Marriott Courtyard, Residence Inn, Humble Tower Apartments, Kirby Apartments, Commerce Towers, Magnolia Hotel, Post Midtown, 2222 Smith, Calais Apartments, Ventanna, T'afia, Prairie View ATM Nursing, Baylor Clinic, Texas Woman's Center, Memorial Hermann Plaza, about 1000 condos/townhomes, a new Specs, the entire Market Square area nightlife scene, and a new home for METRO with a transit center sprout up. Not to mention the recent announcements about the Houston Pavilions, Main Med Center, Collective at Baldwin Park, CitiPlace Apartments by Farb, TMC Transit Center proposal, Outpatient Care Center at Methodist, new UH Downtown Classroom, and Hardy Yards... I'd hate to see what you'd think if you had seen that corridor before 1998!

But, rail is unsuccessful because you rode it once on a Saturday. Richmond's plethora of businesses, from the drive-thru Burger King, to the cheesy lighting store, to the Kolache Factory in a strip mall will all go out of business and never come back. Boo Hoo.

Alligator Tears for you.

[gavoodi]

Gavoodi-

You're a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing!

If you have been reading these forums, then you would know that downtown doesn't hop until NIGHT TIME on the weekends. It is 7:22 pm and you are already home?

Gee, what a surprise that the bars and restaurants weren't packed. What, was the lunch crowd gone at FOUR?!!?!?!?!

Oh, and what a surprise that on a midafternoon on a Saturday in April with no special events, that the light rail was busting out with riders. I am sure the 250,000 downtown workers who were absent, the TMC at about half staff, and no classes at UH-Downtown, HCC Central, South Texas College of Law, Rice, and the host of schools in the TMC had nothing to do with that.

And, Golly Gee, in the two years that light rail has been up and running and the few short years since it was announced, we've only seen the Hotel Icon, Marriott Courtyard, Residence Inn, Humble Tower Apartments, Kirby Apartments, Commerce Towers, Magnolia Hotel, Post Midtown, 2222 Smith, Calais Apartments, Ventanna, T'afia, Prairie View ATM Nursing, Baylor Clinic, Texas Woman's Center, Memorial Hermann Plaza, about 1000 condos/townhomes, a new Specs, the entire Market Square area nightlife scene, and a new home for METRO with a transit center sprout up. Not to mention the recent announcements about the Houston Pavilions, Main Med Center, Collective at Baldwin Park, CitiPlace Apartments by Farb, TMC Transit Center proposal, Outpatient Care Center at Methodist, new UH Downtown Classroom, and Hardy Yards... I'd hate to see what you'd think if you had seen that corridor before 1998!

But, rail is unsuccessful because you rode it once on a Saturday. Richmond's plethora of businesses, from the drive-thru Burger King, to the cheesy lighting store, to the Kolache Factory in a strip mall will all go out of business and never come back. Boo Hoo.

Alligator Tears for you.

You gotta be kidding me! Like none of that would have built without rail? News flash! Stuff is getting built all over everywhere without a rail line! Well, almost everywhere...Main street where the rail line is looks pretty bleak!

By the way, Spec's has been there for ages. I have like a million specs points. I wish I could use them to go to Tahiti or someplace.

[KinkaidAlum]

I am not kidding you.

Name a major project that has been built on Richmond in the last 6 years?

All I can think of is the Metropole Apartment conversion in Greenway Plaza and maybe the ugly-assed Mercer just North of Richmond would count.

Meanwhile, the Red Line Corridor has seen FOURTEEN developments over 12 stories tall literally ON the rail corridor (Main-Fannin).

Four are hotels downtown. A single hotel hadn't been developed downtown in over 25 years. Even worse, several CLOSED during that span. You can call it a coincidence if you'd like.

THREE are residential in downtown. A residential building (outside of single occupancy dwellings) hadn't been built downtown since the late SIXTIES! I guess that's just random too?

Two are MAJOR office projects (518 and 430 feet tall) that the developers specifically stated were designed to take advantage of Houston's new rail line. I guess they made that up and could have built those anywhere?

AND, lest we forget the Houston Pavilions project. It would have NEVER happened with out light rail and the coordinated efforts of the city to spruce up Main Street. There's a reason this isn't being built in Greenway or even Uptown.

And I know full well Specs has been there forever. That's why I said the NEW Specs. AND, since you admit to having been to that Specs, you'd know that the only thing surrounding that for 20 some odd years was the BRB and vacant lots!

[gavoodi]

I am not kidding you.

Name a major project that has been built on Richmond in the last 6 years?

All I can think of is the Metropole Apartment conversion in Greenway Plaza and maybe the ugly-assed Mercer just North of Richmond would count.

Meanwhile, the Red Line Corridor has seen FOURTEEN developments over 12 stories tall literally ON the rail corridor (Main-Fannin).

Four are hotels downtown. A single hotel hadn't been developed downtown in over 25 years. Even worse, several CLOSED during that span. You can call it a coincidence if you'd like.

THREE are residential in downtown. A residential building (outside of single occupancy dwellings) hadn't been built downtown since the late SIXTIES! I guess that's just random too?

Two are MAJOR office projects (518 and 430 feet tall) that the developers specifically stated were designed to take advantage of Houston's new rail line. I guess they made that up and could have built those anywhere?

AND, lest we forget the Houston Pavilions project. It would have NEVER happened with out light rail and the coordinated efforts of the city to spruce up Main Street. There's a reason this isn't being built in Greenway or even Uptown.

And I know full well Specs has been there forever. That's why I said the NEW Specs. AND, since you admit to having been to that Specs, you'd know that the only thing surrounding that for 20 some odd years was the BRB and vacant lots!

Let's see...name a major project on Richmond in the last 6 years. Hmmm. Why do you want me to do that? Perhaps you feel neighborhoods should be destroyed in favor of large office buildings and high density housing? Do you work for a large developer or something?

As for the area around downtown, that has been transforming way before the rail line that decimated businesses along Main was put in. Claiming growth is do to rail is not accurate and misleading. Go back to your rail pumper handbook because that doesn't fly!

[musicman]

It smelled like pee and every block or so I would get asked for money.

I have to agree with you here, the panhandling has definitely increased. METRO has passed a new rule where you cant even be at a train stop without a ticket. But i was at the Main Street Square station on Sat morning and quite a few panhandlers where at work. One was even trying to sell a week bus pass

I noticed a lot of restaurants were closed and I was mystified about this because I thought the rail was going to bring people downtown. There was hardly anybody downtown.

The ONLY restaurants that are open are the ones that are fairly reasonable and good. Mia Bella comes to mind. The restaurants that were closed are mostly too expensive or not that great to draw a crowd on a regular basis. Patranella's, Blue Agave, the high priced Ninfa's venture, etc all come to mind. Also, the City, with their infinite wisdom, added metered parking on Saturday's to make more money but this has run off more of what few customers there were.

Going down Main the rail passes building after building with for sale or for lease signs in the windows. Nobody is on the street. It is a ghost town. It appears maybe some property was bought and demolished by speculators (I'm speculating) but a lot of that has for sale signs too. After riding the rail and looking at it with my eyeballs I'm wondering what would become of Richmond if the rail goes down it. The businesses along Main are empty or closed and if rail really brought customers to these businesses they would be open.

Yeah businesses have suffered and continue to suffer because of the light rail. The owners of the Wheeler Watch Clinic (formerly by Sears but forced to move by METRO, now one block north of Elgin on Main) are still around but said business is rough because 1) some still fear the area 2) lack of vehicular access to business due to numerous east/west closures due to METRO and 3)addition of meters to areas that were previously free to park. Their business has survived as long as I've known them (35 yrs) cause it is a small family business that still provides service.

I am not kidding you.

Name a major project that has been built on Richmond in the last 6 years?

All I can think of is the Metropole Apartment conversion in Greenway Plaza and maybe the ugly-assed Mercer just North of Richmond would count.

Meanwhile, the Red Line Corridor has seen FOURTEEN developments over 12 stories tall literally ON the rail corridor (Main-Fannin).

Four are hotels downtown. A single hotel hadn't been developed downtown in over 25 years. Even worse, several CLOSED during that span. You can call it a coincidence if you'd like.

THREE are residential in downtown. A residential building (outside of single occupancy dwellings) hadn't been built downtown since the late SIXTIES! I guess that's just random too?

Two are MAJOR office projects (518 and 430 feet tall) that the developers specifically stated were designed to take advantage of Houston's new rail line. I guess they made that up and could have built those anywhere?

AND, lest we forget the Houston Pavilions project. It would have NEVER happened with out light rail and the coordinated efforts of the city to spruce up Main Street. There's a reason this isn't being built in Greenway or even Uptown.

And I know full well Specs has been there forever. That's why I said the NEW Specs. AND, since you admit to having been to that Specs, you'd know that the only thing surrounding that for 20 some odd years was the BRB and vacant lots!

[musicman]

Name a major project that has been built on Richmond in the last 6 years?

To me, Richmond has already been developed for years! Unless one wants to tear down existing neighborhoods and businesses, it would be difficult to develop a large scale project on Richmond. Lakewood just spent millions to renovate the Summit (i never liked Compaq Center). I know something is being built on the empty lot next to Lakewood. Large scale developments are still being added nearby on the few remaining empty/abandoned lots. The Richmond area has been a boon to business for years and continues to thrive today.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

The watch shop that was on Main and Wheeler.....im glad to know they are still around and know the new location

thanks for the info.!!!

[N8TIV]

NI8 - I can't put down that today the reason all those businesses were closed was it was too hot. It wasn't that hot today. It wasn't hot last month or the month before that yet store after store has for lease signs in the windows on Main street. If the rail is bringing in all these consumers then why are all the restaurants closed on Main street on a Saturday? Get on the rail and look for yourself. Why is Main practically deserted all down the Main street line?

Hey dude, If you read my post correctly I was basically saying that downtown is a Monday - Friday place for daytime activities in most cases. Hardly anyone lives downtown, and most street-level shops are underground. The tunnels beneath were originally built to connect businesses, protecting pedestrians from the miserable heat during the summer. So, my solution to the weekend desertation is a "chicken or the egg" theory... Do you build more residential buildings? Or do you build more street level shops? My recommendation is to build more affordable housing downtown. This would increase the potential foot traffic for street level commerce.

The red line should have been built under the streets. It was slapped together for the Super Bowl, and now Main Street is one of the most avoided streets in Houston for drivers.

[KinkaidAlum]

Nice try, Gavoodi.

I am talking about the entire Richmond Corridor. I am giving you 30 miles from Midtown to Westchase to list what has been built of significance ON Richmond in the last 6 years. There's plenty of vacant land and property to build on in that stretch.

Compare that to what has been built on Main/Fannin since the light rail was announced.

There's simply no comparison. Game over.

I gotta give you credit though. You hid your anti-rail bias for all of about two seconds in trying to come across as some curious bystander who wanted to see the new excitement of light rail. But, like most talk radio ditto heads, you couldn't hide your anger for that long.

If you are so against rail...then don't ride it. It's really that simple. But, it isn't your right to deny rail to the people who VOTED FOR IT.

[musicman]

If you are so against rail...then don't ride it. It's really that simple. But, it isn't your right to deny rail to the people who VOTED FOR IT.

I think that's where the issue starts. It won on the Westpark corridor, not he Richmond corridor. Congressmen Culbertson supports it where the people voted for it, not another corridor.

[RedScare]

I think that's where the issue starts. It won on the Westpark corridor, not he Richmond corridor. Congressmen Culbertson supports it where the people voted for it, not another corridor.

WRONG!

Read the ballot language. It says nothing of the kind.

Christof over at CTC has a nice explanation, complete with a scan of the ballot language.

http://www.ctchouston.org/blogs/christof/2...-documentation/

Go over there and read it, then see if you can come back here and contort the language into a pretzel.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

WRONG!

Read the ballot language. It says nothing of the kind.

Christof over at CTC has a nice explanation, complete with a scan of the ballot language.

http://www.ctchouston.org/blogs/christof/2...-documentation/

Go over there and read it, then see if you can come back here and contort the language into a pretzel.

[musicman]

WRONG!

Read the ballot language. It says nothing of the kind.

Christof over at CTC has a nice explanation, complete with a scan of the ballot language.

http://www.ctchouston.org/blogs/christof/2...-documentation/

Go over there and read it, then see if you can come back here and contort the language into a pretzel.

I prefer not to become juvenile on this issue. I"m simply stating that the confusion is in the desciption of the various transportation corridors. The fourth one is called the Westpark Corridor which leads one to believe that's where it will be placed. Election ballot wording has always been confusing here and on many other issues particularly on controversial subjects. The ** items were supposedly rail specific corridors at the time and some have subsequently been changed to bus rapid transit.

1. NORTH HARDY

**A. UH-Downtown to Northline Mall

B. Northline Mall to Greenspoint

C. Greenspoint to Bush IAH Airport

2. SOUTHEAST

**A. Downtown/Bagby to Dowling

**B. Dowling to Griggs/610

C. Griggs/610 to Park & Ride in the vicinity of Hobby Airport

D. Sunnyside: Southeast Transit Center to Bellfort

E. Sunnyside: Bellfort to Airport Blvd.

3. HARRISBURG

**A. Dowling to Magnolia Transit Center

B. Magnolia Transit Center to Gulfgate Center

C. Gulfgate Center to Telephone Road

4. WESTPARK

**Wheeler Station to Hillcroft Transit Center

5. UPTOWN/WEST LOOP

Westpark to the Northwest Transit Center

6. INNER KATY

Downtown/Bagby to Northwest Transit Center

7. SOUTHWEST COMMUTER LINE

Fannin South Park & Ride to Harris County line

[largeTEXAS]

Look, to those that oppose rail down Richmond (and rail in general) there are some compelling arguments in your favor. In its current state Main Street is not the urban mecca we'd all love it to be. But, was it ever? Main St. before the rail was great in very small pockets but dreadfully bleak in most. Now, it is still great in small (yet growing) pockets and much nicer in the areas that were once so bleak.

Rail is not a quick fix nor just a short term solution. In order for it to truly work, there has to be a system larger than just one line. That's what we're debating now. Houston is in desperate need of an efficient transit system that is clean, reliable, and easily accessible. Believe it or not, the current street capacity in the inner loop that is already overloaded will not be able to efficiently hold the cars projected in the next 7, 10, or 20 years from now. Something needs to give.

Rail is a tool to both solve some of the city

[zaphod]

Look, to those that oppose rail down Richmond (and rail in general) there are some compelling arguments in your favor. In its current state Main Street is not the urban mecca we'd all love it to be. But, was it ever? Main St. before the rail was great in very small pockets but dreadfully bleak in most. Now, it is still great in small (yet growing) pockets and much nicer in the areas that were once so bleak.

Exactly. Main was in bad shape before the light rail. And things take time.

[ricco67]

LargeTexas has a great many logical points on the matter.

The Capacity on Richmond is above capacity. Only the opening of the Spur into downtown has enabled it to buy a little extra time with this issue. But given a few years, the amount of cars on Richmond will increase to the point where you will have gridlock.

Personally I think a Richmond alignment would probably be more ideal as far as getting more populated areas and employment centers. Especially in conjuction with a Post Oak line. It would also be invaluable to have a line from Sugarland/Richmond to follow the original voted route and to MERGE with a Richmond alignment to increase capacity a bit more.

The only major issue is the proper construction and placement of the rails along the Richmond line. If it's along the Center (a la' Main St.) you might have issues with people turning left as well as that would be slowing down the train. The streets leading out onto richmond generally isn't safe enough to make a left turn from anyway, and it would probably be safer if people were only able to make a right turn from the side streets.

If it's located on the outside lanes, you come across a bigger issue of cars coming out of the side streets and cross or simply closing them off limiting mobility out of the various neighborhoods located in the area.

In regards to the trees in the median, as much as I would hate to see such lovely trees go away, they would pose a serious danger to the wires once a major storm would knock down a branch or two.

My vote would be a Richmond Line from the Wheeler station out as far as it can go. The population and employment centers would be:

Richmont Square Apartments and surrounding neighborhoods in the Montrose (Located at Richmond @ Graustark)

Greenway Plaza (Richmond @ Edloe)

Galleria/Strip malls (Richmond @ post oak or Sage)

Dave and Buster's and surrounding Bars and apartments (Richmond @ Fountainview)

Heavily populated apartment complexes (Richmond @ Dunlavy)

Heavily Populated aparment complexes (Richmond @ Ocee)

Office Complexes (Richmond @ Sam Houston)

and that's just a few of the major areas. That doesn't include a medical center on Richmond @ Old Richmond and Richmond @ HWY 6.

I don't think it needs to be built out completely in one shot all the way to HWY 6, but built out in stages.

In regards to gavoodi's adventure, every time I've ridden the rail into the medical center, I've seen people from from the bus straight onto the train. Logic would suggest that they have a transfer ticket.

Even in the short times that I see officers checking people. From what I have seen, there is a high compliance rate with paying the fare. I've seen a few that didn't, and they got a ticket accordingly.

[KinkaidAlum]

Nice posts Red, Large, and Ricco.

You three would also make a great name for a band; Red Large Ricco.

[ricco67]

Nice posts Red, Large, and Ricco.

You three would also make a great name for a band; Red Large Ricco.

I think I would match that to a "T" by myself if I either got sunburnt or wore a red outfit.