Highway 288

[JLWM8609]

Read this on chron.com. Guess they didn't get the memo that the cloverleaf plan was scrapped in favor of a conventional setup. https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/fannin-exit-closed-south-loop-610-16586011.php

[Houston19514]

17 hours ago, JLWM8609 said:

Read this on chron.com. Guess they didn't get the memo that the cloverleaf plan was scrapped in favor of a conventional setup. https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/fannin-exit-closed-south-loop-610-16586011.php

Just curious... are there updated schematics?

[JLWM8609]

9 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Just curious... are there updated schematics?

All I've seen are the schematics posted in this thread a few months ago. Construction seems to be corresponding to them pretty closely. 

[Houston19514]

10 hours ago, JLWM8609 said:

All I've seen are the schematics posted in this thread a few months ago. Construction seems to be corresponding to them pretty closely. 

Oh yes.  Thank you.   Sad that the transportation writers for the local paper don't have a clue.  But hardly surprising when that same writer also thinks there are "southbound"  drivers on the South Loop.  ("Southbound drivers wanting to exit at Fannin Street").  Sheesh.  At least get someone who can differentiate South from West.

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Houston19514

[Triton]

9/21/21 (very recent) update on Google Earth

[JLWM8609]

The site of the ground collapse just south of 610 reopened on Sunday morning. 

[JLWM8609]

More detours starting this weekend. https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/Houston-288-610-highway-closure-ramp-16629438.php

[Highrise Tower]

Pears!

and I guess those are sound barriers for the neighborhood?

[j_cuevas713]

The city of Pearland decided to invest in cute little pear shapes and not pedestrian infrastructure. If anyone knows Pearland they know that Broadway is a total disaster. Last I heard, TxDOT was going to widen it from 4 lanes to 6 because growth in the area has caused more traffic. Another example of nearsighted thinking. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by j_cuevas713

[kennyc05]

4 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

The city of Pearland decided to invest in cute little pear shapes and not pedestrian infrastructure. If anyone knows Pearland they know that Broadway is a total disaster. Last I heard, TxDOT was going to widen it from 4 lanes to 6 because growth in the area has caused more traffic. Another example of nearsighted thinking. 

I noticed that too!  I will say at least Pearland is finally starting to landscaping serious with the new trees being planted.

[trymahjong]

I will be the first to state- Highway landscaping rocks, when done right.

So of course each time I see huge stretches with no landscaping, I am so let down.........I always ask myself, in TXDOZt kazillion dollar budget for highway construction, all that upturned dirt, just waiting there, and there's no room for wildflower seeds? Ever?

[JLWM8609]

On 1/3/2023 at 8:30 AM, trymahjong said:

I will be the first to state- Highway landscaping rocks, when done right.

So of course each time I see huge stretches with no landscaping, I am so let down.........I always ask myself, in TXDOZt kazillion dollar budget for highway construction, all that upturned dirt, just waiting there, and there's no room for wildflower seeds? Ever?

I remember when the median of 288 near Brays Bayou used to be full of bluebonnets during the Spring. With the toll lanes added, I guess there's no room for the wildflower seeds anymore. Though I have seen them growing through cracks in the riprap.

[kennyc05]

On 1/3/2023 at 8:30 AM, trymahjong said:

I will be the first to state- Highway landscaping rocks, when done right.

So of course each time I see huge stretches with no landscaping, I am so let down.........I always ask myself, in TXDOZt kazillion dollar budget for highway construction, all that upturned dirt, just waiting there, and there's no room for wildflower seeds? Ever?

 

2 hours ago, JLWM8609 said:

I remember when the median of 288 near Brays Bayou used to be full of bluebonnets during the Spring. With the toll lanes added, I guess there's no room for the wildflower seeds anymore. Though I have seen them growing through cracks in the riprap.

I always thought it was stupid they put the trees in the middle of median knowing they were gonna rip them out years later. Those trees could have been planted along the sides.

[Triton]

On 1/2/2023 at 8:20 PM, j_cuevas713 said:

The city of Pearland decided to invest in cute little pear shapes and not pedestrian infrastructure. If anyone knows Pearland they know that Broadway is a total disaster. Last I heard, TxDOT was going to widen it from 4 lanes to 6 because growth in the area has caused more traffic. Another example of nearsighted thinking. 

It's Pearland. If they added sidewalks to Broadway, who in the world would take it? I lived in Pearland for a few years and it's 100% a driving community to get to any retail (which is what Broadway is full of). The only place people walk or bike is within their own neighborhoods. This isn't the Heights, man. lol

[j_cuevas713]

49 minutes ago, Triton said:

It's Pearland. If they added sidewalks to Broadway, who in the world would take it? I lived in Pearland for a few years and it's 100% a driving community to get to any retail (which is what Broadway is full of). The only place people walk or bike is within their own neighborhoods. This isn't the Heights, man. .

It’s a driving community because no other options are offered. I guarantee that if a commuter rail option had been built and not another toll road, the people in Pearland would have used it. Widening Broadway is only going to follow the same pattern we keep talking about on this forum. It’s not going to solve any traffic issues. They’re basically going to convert a typical road in to a 6 lane highway with turning lanes cutting right through the middle of their community.

Edited January 6, 2023 by j_cuevas713

[hbg.50]

19 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

It’s a driving community because no other options are offered. I guarantee that if a commuter rail option had been built and not another toll road, the people in Pearland would have used it. Widening Broadway is only going to follow the same pattern we keep talking about on this forum. It’s not going to solve any traffic issues. They’re basically going to convert a typical road in to a 6 lane highway with turning lanes cutting right through the middle of their community.

Look at Dallas suburbs...nobody uses their much lauded rail system.  By all indications nobody will use it even though they continue to expand.

I'm glad the red line gets some usage.  At least Houston did that right.

[004n063]

1 hour ago, steve1363 said:

Look at Dallas suburbs...nobody uses their much lauded rail system.  By all indications nobody will use it even though they continue to expand.

I'm glad the red line gets some usage.  At least Houston did that right.

Look at the "stations" on the Dallas light rail. Same with Denver and parts of LA. If the rail takes you from one highway-adjacent parking lot to another, it's never going to generate a ton of ridership.

While METROrail is nowhere near a sufficient rapid transit system for the city of Houston (let alone the metro area), but the lines themselves are, in my opinion, rock-solid exemplars of how to lay out tram in an American context, blending present demand, equitability considerations, a generally good combination of streetfront access and grade separation, and (by far most importantly) smart land use policy for future TOD. (Though I would certainly like to see frequencies increase on the green and purple lines as their service corridors densify.)

Too many cities in the US are trying to use trams/light rail as either true metros or as regional/commuter railways. The mode is not well-suited to either of those functions, and will pretty much always see lackluster ridership when deployed that way. 

That said, the only suburban regional rail service I can see providing real value right now would be a line from TMC to Conroe, with (initial) stops in Midtown, Downtown, IAH, and The Woodlands (built with capacity to add intermediate stops on the north side), and even that is a stretch. Houston may be sprawly and unwalkable, but most of its suburbs are considerably worse in that regard.

In my lay opinion, Pearland is a very unlikely three decades away from being a viable transit or walking city.

A bikability transformation is much more feasible there, since it's flat and there's endless ROW, but that transformation seems extremely unlikely to me right now. 

[hbg.50]

2 hours ago, 004n063 said:

In my lay opinion, Pearland is a very unlikely three decades away from being a viable transit or walking city.

A bikability transformation is much more feasible there, since it's flat and there's endless ROW, but that transformation seems extremely unlikely to me right now. 

If by “viable transit or walking city” your point of reference is downtown Manhattan then I would agree with you.  In fact, it will never be that.  The people who live there don’t want that type of lifestyle.  In fact the neighborhoods are quite walkable and safe for cycling.  It’s not a bad place to raise a family.  Commutes to the CBD or TMC are not that bad either.

[004n063]

7 hours ago, steve1363 said:

If by “viable transit or walking city” your point of reference is downtown Manhattan then I would agree with you.

My point of reference would be a walkable & bikable suburb with easy access to an all-day rapid transit line. I think the Dutch do it best at the neighborhood level, though I'm more impressed with Paris's regional rail network. Regardless, there are plenty of solid examples of walkable suburbs out there, even in the US.

Having recently spent time in MA, I would point to Waltham as an example of a larger suburb, and Natick as an example of a smaller suburb (though both towns do have outer regions that are less walkable, and the biking infrastructure is insufficient). 

7 hours ago, steve1363 said:

The people who live there don’t want that type of lifestyle.

Obviously, people don't choose Pearland if walkable urbanism is a primary concern, but it doesn't necessarily follow that they specifically don't want to be able to do basic everyday errands on foot or on a bike.

7 hours ago, steve1363 said:

In fact the neighborhoods are quite walkable and safe for cycling.

Can you share an example of a walkable neighborhood in Pearland? I don't live there, but from the handful of times I've been in the area, it has seemed like basically any errand would require a long walk and getting onto a wide, high-speed stroad without any good bike infrastructure. Is it really feasible to live without a car there?

[hbg.50]

10 hours ago, 004n063 said:

Can you share an example of a walkable neighborhood in Pearland? I don't live there, but from the handful of times I've been in the area, it has seemed like basically any errand would require a long walk and getting onto a wide, high-speed stroad without any good bike infrastructure. Is it really feasible to live without a car there?

I mean "walkable" in the sense of health and wellness, not in the sense of running errands by foot.  Shadow Creek Ranch is a neighborhood with ample sidewalks, trails, and parks for health and wellness.

What is your motive for wanting to "live without a car?"  I feel like this is where my opinion of urbanism diverges from many on forums like this.  I find the current form of urbanism caters to an elite class.  Downtown apartment rents for example are the highest in the city.  I believe urbanism should address the needs of the working class.  Mass transit has always served a need in the city of Houston.  Rail should enhance what already exists, not try to gain a "new" type of ridership.   Anyway I digress.  You seem like a reasonable person and I would love to hear your thoughts.

[004n063]

1 hour ago, steve1363 said:

I mean "walkable" in the sense of health and wellness, not in the sense of running errands by foot.  Shadow Creek Ranch is a neighborhood with ample sidewalks, trails, and parks for health and wellness.

What is your motive for wanting to "live without a car?"  I feel like this is where my opinion of urbanism diverges from many on forums like this.  I find the current form of urbanism caters to an elite class.  Downtown apartment rents for example are the highest in the city.  I believe urbanism should address the needs of the working class.  Mass transit has always served a need in the city of Houston.  Rail should enhance what already exists, not try to gain a "new" type of ridership.   Anyway I digress.  You seem like a reasonable person and I would love to hear your thoughts.

Disclaimer: folks, if you're in this thread for anything related to 288, disregard this comment.

@steve1363 - since you asked...

My motive for wanting to live without a car is cost. I used to have a pretty junky car, which I bought used and paid off over six years. Around that point, I started having to pay what felt to me like huge amounts (hundreds of dollars) for repairs multiple times per year, in addition to ongoing insurance payments and gas costs. Then my transmission died this summer, and the guy told me it'd likely be upwards of $3k to replace. That was a non-starter.

Since then, I've been without a car, and the experience has been not only radicalizing (I'm sure I've induced more than my share of eye rolls on here), but quite eye-opening. What I've realized is that being without a car can be brutal in some parts of the city and perfectly fine in others. More importantly, though: the correlation between the tolerability of carlessness and neighborhood income levels does not appear (to me at least, as someone who will generally choose biking over walking) to be intrinsic. Yes, the Heights, Montrose, and Downtown are solidly walkable/bikeable as well as expensive. But I don't find them to be significantly more navigable than 3rd Ward or the East End. Meanwhile, Upper Kirby, Greenway, and the Galleria may be tolerable (though not great) on foot, but are hellish on a bike or a bus.

In general, though, yes: walkable places in the US tend to be more expensive. That is a function of high demand and limited supply - both naturally, by the relatively slow housing & business supply chain in response to the relatively rapid swing in popular demand from suburban back to urban living; and artificially, through deed restrictions, minimum parking requirements, building height limits, highways and other major barriers, and, in other cities (which do have an impact on demand in a major city like Houston).

In general, I have very limited interest in telling others how they should get around. I'd say none, but selfishly I tend to think better bikability and transit are more likely to come to me if more people bike and ride transit. But basically, at the individual level, I think people should live their lives how they want, and I'm not here to tell them to make different choices.

What I have a problem with is (heads up: this is where I get a little dramatic) when pretty much the whole region has an almost pathological commitment to the municipal sacrifice of every other option at the altar of the car. This - designing much of the city and even more so its suburbs around the car - is a massively self-reinforcing feedback loop that is fiscally unsustainable, increases the cost of living for residents (people pretty much have to pay the costs of car ownership), and reduces freedom for people who would prefer not to drive or would prefer to drive less. 

[Triton]

On 1/6/2023 at 4:44 PM, j_cuevas713 said:

It’s a driving community because no other options are offered. I guarantee that if a commuter rail option had been built and not another toll road, the people in Pearland would have used it. Widening Broadway is only going to follow the same pattern we keep talking about on this forum. It’s not going to solve any traffic issues. They’re basically going to convert a typical road in to a 6 lane highway with turning lanes cutting right through the middle of their community.

Well I agree with you there. I've visited several cities around the US and commuter rail is a big advantage if we can get a hub out in Pearland.

But I thought you were saying they needed to invest in the wide sidewalks like we see in the inner-loop. Even as someone who has biked everywhere I've lived, Pearland was probably the last place I ever wanted to bike.

[j_cuevas713]

11 hours ago, Triton said:

Well I agree with you there. I've visited several cities around the US and commuter rail is a big advantage if we can get a hub out in Pearland.

But I thought you were saying they needed to invest in the wide sidewalks like we see in the inner-loop. Even as someone who has biked everywhere I've lived, Pearland was probably the last place I ever wanted to bike.

I've tried riding out there as well and it's terrible. I guess my issue is that if they're going to wider Broadway, why not incorporate proper drainage and sidewalks the entire route. That would lay the groundwork for moving people more efficiently. I'm not sure what all TxDOT has in mind. They've "tried" to be more pedestrian conscious the past 2/3 years but we'll see. This is no different than TxDOT coming out today and realizing they made sections of the Grand Parkway too narrow. Either they're dumb as bricks when planning or they're brilliant and ripping off taxpayers over and over. Either way it's old solutions that aren't solving much larger issues. 

[mollusk]

4 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

This is no different than TxDOT coming out today and realizing they made sections of the Grand Parkway too narrow. Either they're dumb as bricks when planning or they're brilliant and ripping off taxpayers over and over. Either way it's old solutions that aren't solving much larger issues. 

It's almost like the new highway induced demand. 🥷

[editor]

On 1/6/2023 at 12:21 PM, JLWM8609 said:

I remember when the median of 288 near Brays Bayou used to be full of bluebonnets during the Spring. With the toll lanes added, I guess there's no room for the wildflower seeds anymore. Though I have seen them growing through cracks in the riprap.

I have pictures of cowboys napping while their horses are cropping the grass in that median. Must have been on their way to the rodeo. 
 

Alas, Texas becomes less Texas every day. 

[Ross]

2 hours ago, editor said:

I have pictures of cowboys napping while their horses are cropping the grass in that median. Must have been on their way to the rodeo. 
 

Alas, Texas becomes less Texas every day. 

There are(or were) a huge number of horse owners outside the Loop to the South. That median was one place they could ride safely for a good distance, and also have some free fodder for the horses. It was definitely a unique Houston thing.

[ultimate_ed]

The current proposal for the latest widening of 518 is supposed to include a bike lane.  It's getting lots of push back.  Honestly, as someone who lives down here and does enjoy biking in the area, I think trying to put a bike lane on 518 would be a terrible idea.  There are cutouts to shopping centers all along the way.  It would be akin to putting a bike lane on Westheimer between 610 and the Beltway.  I think they'd have a better chance with running bike lanes on Hughes Ranch to the north and Magnolia to the south and run N/S lanes along Cr 90, 94, 1128 and such to create connections to 518.

There is a recently added multi-use wide sidewalk along the newly widened Bailey Rd (CR 101).  The Clear Creek trail project is supposed to be about 21 miles of multi use trail from Dixie Farm around to I think Almeda.  There are parts of it in place, but that's a decade long project.

[Highrise Tower]

Noticed this the other day. Very cool.

[JLWM8609]

I came across this flier. I've seen vaguely worded signs about road closures, lane closures, various surveying stakes, and a temporary asphalt driveway for HEB has been paved on N. MacGregor, but no info from Drive 288 or TXDOT. I'm going to try to go to the meeting. If they're expecting closures that long, I'm thinking they're reconstructing the entire intersection or replacing bridges?

[Houston19514]

On 2/6/2024 at 10:19 AM, JLWM8609 said:

I came across this flier. I've seen vaguely worded signs about road closures, lane closures, various surveying stakes, and a temporary asphalt driveway for HEB has been paved on N. MacGregor, but no info from Drive 288 or TXDOT. I'm going to try to go to the meeting. If they're expecting closures that long, I'm thinking they're reconstructing the entire intersection or replacing bridges?

Oh no!!!!  The feeder will be shut down for SEVERAL WEEKS!!  How will we get through this nightmare?  (And does it actually have anything to do with the I-45 project?  I thought nothing was starting on that until later this year.)

Edited February 7 by Houston19514