Red Light Cameras

[westguy]

I find that people who run red lights are usually the ones going below the speed limit. When I finally get free of them and make it to the light when its turning yellow, I look behind me to see that they're going through the intersection. Maybe most of them are on the phone, since that behavior causes people to drive slowly and ignore what's going on around them.

[Mr. Chenevert]

Ahh, your first explanation wasnt clear. I didnt realize you were triggering the cameras, THEN stopping. Interesting idea. However, I would have a hard time completing the stop and then running the light. If I was able to stop in the first place, then I midas well wait for the light.

[MidtownCoog]

It's only worth the effort for those lights that skip cycles and stay red forever. Like all the lights on Elgin. I think they are bad by design.

[N Judah]

I found a better solution -- just gun it like hell when i see the yellow. I do this at pretty much every intersection now, just for the practice.

Before, I would just sort of "lock on" to the car in front of me and cruise through the light slowly, but that seems to be the way to lose $75.

[northbeaumont]

I found a better solution -- just gun it like hell when i see the yellow. I do this at pretty much every intersection now, just for the practice.

Before, I would just sort of "lock on" to the car in front of me and cruise through the light slowly, but that seems to be the way to lose $75.

On the front page of today's Houston Chronicle: "Double trouble for area drivers; Added cameras and a crackdown on illegal turns fuel a 130% rise in traffic citations."

It said that there were 27,000 violations last month. At $75 fine for each ticket, the city will make $20,250.

[musicman]

On the front page of today's Houston Chronicle: "Double trouble for area drivers; Added cameras and a crackdown on illegal turns fuel a 130% rise in traffic citations."

It said that there were 27,000 violations last month. At $75 fine for each ticket, the city will make $20,250.

add 2 zeros to that. $2,025,000

[N Judah]

So what happens if everyone suddenly starts stopping for red lights and the city can't justify the cameras' operating costs? Do they just come up with something new to enforce?

[memebag]

So what happens if everyone suddenly starts stopping for red lights and the city can't justify the cameras' operating costs?

More people live longer, and with fewer injuries.

[N Judah]

More people live longer, and with fewer injuries.

Then the government finds something new to enforce with their cameras. Gotta keep the revenue stream going, right?

[northbeaumont]

add 2 zeros to that. $2,025,000

Maybe my arithmetic is wrong. I carried the decimal point over two numbers from the right.

[sidegate]

while they are impractical in some situations, this city is crying out for more roundabouts/traffic circles, not red light cameras. the problem with that though is a lot less gas would be wasted, the city wouldn't add two million bucks a month to its coffers and cops would be spending a lot more time in Shipley's stores.

[CDeb]

while they are impractical in some situations, this city is crying out for more roundabouts/traffic circles, not red light cameras. the problem with that though is a lot less gas would be wasted, the city wouldn't add two million bucks a month to its coffers and cops would be spending a lot more time in Shipley's stores.

I am a "roundabout lover," but there are other reasons besides big oil/cash flow conspiracies as to why they aren't more prevalent in Texas.

The first is that, as progressive as Texas is in introducing many traffic safety/control measures, transportation agencies in Texas, for the most part, just don't believe in roundabouts and it is a HARD sell to get one approved by the state/county/city you are working in. This is starting to change in the cities, but TxDOT generally doesn't want to hear about a roundabout in their ROW. One reason for this is that agencies are beholden to politicians, who are beholden to their constituents. And when most people hear "roundabout," they think "traffic circle," those large, dangerous, high speed monstrosities that everyone hates (I have enumerated the differences between TC's and RAB's in another thread on HAIF) and come out full-force against roundabouts. It's often hilarious to look at newspaper articles before a roundabout is installed and see everyone ranting and raving about how stupid their local traffic engineer is and then see a newspaper article after the roundabout is installed and see everyone loving their new roundabout. It happens time and time and time again. Another reason for TxDOT opposition is the fear of change. Roundabouts work well under a variety of traffic conditions, but not so well in some instances. Some transportation agencies fear that a roundabout will be installed at great expense and then become obsolete due to a change in traffic conditions and will need to be removed and have a traffic signal installed anyway. The counter to this is that rarely do traffic conditions change drastically in an unanticipated manner without a drastic change in nearby land use or nearby transportation facilities.

The other reason that roundabouts are slow to catch on is that it is expensive to rip out a signalized intersection and install a roundabout.

[musicman]

The other reason that roundabouts are slow to catch on is that it is expensive to rip out a signalized intersection and install a roundabout.

with many preexisting intersections, the land needed to accomplish a niced size one just isn't available.

[CDeb]

with many preexisting intersections, the land needed to accomplish a niced size one just isn't available.

Correct, a roundabout will often require an additional ROW purchase over a traditional intersection.

The best time to get roundabouts installed is when an intersection is still unsignalized but traffic is anticipated to build (rural and suburban areas). Otherwise, it can be costly.

[RedScare]

So what happens if everyone suddenly starts stopping for red lights and the city can't justify the cameras' operating costs? Do they just come up with something new to enforce?

The cities do not pay for the cameras. The camera company does. The city is merely paying the cost from revenue generated. As revenue declines, the city gets less money, but never incurs a cost.

[Subdude]

with many preexisting intersections, the land needed to accomplish a niced size one just isn't available.

Roundabouts at some intersections would not require extensive right-of-way acquisition. I have seen many that are little more than a white circle in the middle of the intersection.

[musicman]

Roundabouts at some intersections would not require extensive right-of-way acquisition. I have seen many that are little more than a white circle in the middle of the intersection.

for the less busy streets i would agree. i went through a couple in a hood near mem city earlier this week. my corolla made it easily but i could see some drivers having issues.

but to keep traffic moving for busier thoroughfares, the circle would have to be larger to allow for turns at a reasonable speed.

[sevfiv]

for the less busy streets i would agree. i went through a couple in a hood near mem city earlier this week. my corolla made it easily but i could see some drivers having issues.

but to keep traffic moving for busier thoroughfares, the circle would have to be larger to allow for turns at a reasonable speed.

There's one close to Memorial City Mall - maybe around Kingsride/Benignus - that was pretty tight for larger vehicles. As I was approaching a fire truck came up - it cut the circle diagonally and still had a difficult time.

[sidegate]

If Paris can do it, so can Houston!

[Subdude]

There's one close to Memorial City Mall - maybe around Kingsride/Benignus - that was pretty tight for larger vehicles. As I was approaching a fire truck came up - it cut the circle diagonally and still had a difficult time.

Part of the point of roundabouts is to slow traffic. As I mentioned, most roundabouts at small or neighborhood intersections are just round circles only slightly raised from the road. A large emergency vehicle such as a fire truck could easily just drive over the circle if it had to get through the intersection quickly.

[EastEnd Susan]

I was stopped at a left hand turn red light this morning on El Dorado. There was one truck in front of me. He inched over the white line and the camera flashed. He didnt run the light he just rolled up a bit. Will he get a ticket for this? Just curious.

[CDeb]

I was stopped at a left hand turn red light this morning on El Dorado. There was one truck in front of me. He inched over the white line and the camera flashed. He didnt run the light he just rolled up a bit. Will he get a ticket for this? Just curious.

I doubt it.

[VelvetJ]

I was stopped at a left hand turn red light this morning on El Dorado. There was one truck in front of me. He inched over the white line and the camera flashed. He didnt run the light he just rolled up a bit. Will he get a ticket for this? Just curious.

I say it depends on if the city has reached it's monthly projections. If it hasn't, he will probably get a ticket.

But look at it this way, that camera probably saved his life. So if he does get a ticket, the $75 fine will be worth it.

[memebag]

I say it depends on if the city has reached it's monthly projections. If it hasn't, he will probably get a ticket.

A co-worker recently got one of these tickets. It came with photos of her running the red light, and URL for a video of the event. She was trying to tell us that the ticket was wrong, so we watched the video. She ran the red light. I don't know if all of the cameras provide this level of video detail, but if that one does he's probably OK.

[Jax]

I say it depends on if the city has reached it's monthly projections. If it hasn't, he will probably get a ticket.

If they send you an online video of the incident and it's obvious that you didn't run the light, seems to me like it would be easy to get out of it. Or most likely the people reviewing the video before sending it to you would just cancel the ticket if it was that obvious.

[ricco67]

I came across this article today and thought it was quite interesting.

So far we have Police cars with multiple cameras that can scan plates on the fly. COH also has a truck with two cameras that scan plates around town to see if they are stolen, owe tickets, or whatever.

I wonder if this is where Houston will eventually go, I'm sure the conspiracy theorists out there will have fun if this is brought to town as well.

[musicman]

Two lawyers suing over the Houston's red-light camera program contend that a judge's order to release more than 150 internal city documents will pave the way for a citywide referendum to end the program next year.

Paul Kubosh and Randall Kallinen filed a lawsuit challenging the city's refusal to release 208 documents they requested under the Texas Public Information Act, many of them internal city communications and e-mails to and from the camera vendor, relating to last year's city-sponsored study of the effectiveness of the camera program.

State District Judge Tracy Christopher has ordered the city to release 160 of 208 contested documents, ruling the city legal department presented no evidence they should be withheld under the law's exceptions for attorney-client privilege or the deliberative process. Since the program began in May 2006, the city has issued 607,000 civil citations and collected $21.4 million.

“What this lawsuit will end up doing with the release of these documents, it will help prove once and for all what the red-light camera program is all about. It's about revenue,” said Kubosh, standing on the steps of City Hall. “This is not about safety, it does not increase safety. Robert Stein told the city of Houston officials, in e-mails, that red-light cameras do not increase safety in these intersections.”

full article

[gto250us]

... I'm sure the conspiracy theorists out there will have fun if this is brought to town as well...

If you look on that monitor in front of you. See the little red or green light? The city can use that light the monitor what your computer shows you and it can monitor your reactions and activities. The enemy is among us and it is us.

I never understood the problem with this issue. If you obey the law, no problem. If you break the law, you get busted. What is wrong with that?

[JLWM8609]

I never understood the problem with this issue. If you obey the law, no problem. If you break the law, you get busted. What is wrong with that?

The system still needs work. Last year, I was pulled over for an expired registration tag when I'd actually bought a new tag earlier. Once the officer saw the new tag, he apologized and told me that the new tag had not shown up in the system yet and went on his way. If the system had the ability to instantly update when I purchased my new tag, the officer and I wouldn't have wasted time along the road while real violators passed us up.

[musicman]

City's defense for not paying up sounds familiar

Explanation for toll-road fines is the same one Houston rejects when motorists contest red-light violations

The city has avoided paying county toll road fines using a defense it does not want motorists to use when contesting red-light camera violations.

Earlier this week, city officials again asked Harris County Commissioners Court to help them collect millions by blocking the registration of vehicles involved in red-light camera violations in which the fines have not been paid. Meanwhile, Harris County Toll Road Authority lawyers were continuing a fruitless effort to make the city pay tolls racked up by more than a hundred non-emergency city vehicles.

A city finance official claimed the toll fines are owed by the individual employees rather than the city, which owns the vehicles.

But the city's efforts to block registrations are aimed at the owners of vehicles involved in red-light camera violations.

“I think the city is talking out of both sides of its mouth. The city wants to use the defense they won't allow citizens to use,” Precinct 3 Commissioner Steve Radack said.

“They need to be better neighbors,” said Precinct 2 Commissioner Sylvia Garcia, adding that the only exemptions from the toll fees are for firetrucks, ambulances, law enforcement and military vehicles. “The city of Houston should make good on this and find a way to pay these dollars that are owed on any of their vehicles.”

full article