Red Light Cameras

[musicman]

Outsouring really irritates me. Everytime I call Tracfone to ask about my cell phone service, it's someone overseas. Same thing when I call TransUnion to ask about my credit record.

If it irritates you why would you want HPD to outsource?

[CDeb]

Why doesn't HPD simply outsource that job to somewhere in India? Almost everyplace in the U.S. is doing that.

Because a police officer has to be the one to witness the act and determine that a violation has occured.

[RedScare]

i think with the history of problems HPD has had with outsourcing (crime lab, evidence room, etc) it would be in their best interest to maintain control.

Umm...HPD's problems with the lab and evidence came from IN-HOUSE employees, not outsourcing.

[musicman]

Umm...HPD's problems with the lab and evidence came from IN-HOUSE employees, not outsourcing.

i should have said certified police personnel vs civilians. or at least have a certified officer there.

Edited August 27, 2007 by musicman

[northbeaumont]

an HPD officer at our PIP meeting told me that they have to monitor the video so they can't be on the street.

Yesterday the Beaumont police chief announced that about 20 red light cameras will be installed here. Nederland, just south of Beaumont, announced that it will also be setting some up in their city.

[musicman]

council voted to expand the red light camera ordinance so that now rolling turns will now be a ticketable offense.

seems bondman michael kubosh's lawsuit over red lights has the city's interest now. the city is now hiring private attorneys instead of using staff attorneys.

Edited August 29, 2007 by musicman

[VelvetJ]

How many more cameras are coming? Is there a certain goal amount of cameras that are scheduled to be added to the city?

[TJones]

How many more cameras are coming? Is there a certain goal amount of cameras that are scheduled to be added to the city?

I would think that the goal would be to eventually have EVERY redlight armed with a camera.

[jfre81]

I'll make sure not to smoke a joint in the car at these intersections.

[TJones]

I'll make sure not to smoke a joint in the car at these intersections.

Try to keep your beer down out of sight also, will ya ?

[Parrothead]

Actually, musicman, I am going to go out on a limb and say your "cop buddy" doesn't have a clue how this thing operates. The private camera company installs and operates the cameras. Their employees review all raw footage for violations, tossing close calls or other non-obvious violations. They send the clear violations to HPD by computer. There, a trained officer reviews the videos to confirm a violation, just as a supervisor reviews detective work before an arrest is made. Only one officer does it, though another is being trained as backup. One officer, clearing 13,000 to 15,000 violations per month sounds a lot more efficient than anything else HPD does.

Now, about THE MONEY. I'm curious, would you rather red light violators pay $75 per violation, or would you rather pay more property taxes?

Oh, I doubt this will change our property taxes and the rate they increase per year.

[CDeb]

council voted to expand the red light camera ordinance so that now rolling turns will now be a ticketable offense.

seems bondman michael kubosh's lawsuit over red lights has the city's interest now. the city is now hiring private attorneys instead of using staff attorneys.

While I am in favor of red light cameras as a whole, I don't believe that people "rolling" red lights is a safety issue.

[TJones]

While I am in favor of red light cameras as a whole, I don't believe that people "rolling" red lights is a safety issue.

CDeb, I think, JMHO, that rolling a right on red is JUST as dangerous. I always look at that guy or gal that is kinda angled to make that turn. The "California roll" which seems to be the norm her ein Houston for Stop signs as well as redlight turns is a major issue to me. STOP and LOOK before you make that turn. Somebody could be switching lanes right then. Guess who is gonna get the ticket, NOT the guy changing lanes.

[musicman]

STOP and LOOK before you make that turn. Somebody could be switching lanes right then. Guess who is gonna get the ticket, NOT the guy changing lanes.

changing lanes in the middle of an intersection is considered an unsafe lane change which is a ticketable offense.

[TJones]

changing lanes in the middle of an intersection is considered an unsafe lane change which is a ticketable offense.

If the person has changed lanes before entering the intersection it is NOT though. I have seen it happen a miilion times.

[CDeb]

CDeb, I think, JMHO, that rolling a right on red is JUST as dangerous. I always look at that guy or gal that is kinda angled to make that turn. The "California roll" which seems to be the norm her ein Houston for Stop signs as well as redlight turns is a major issue to me. STOP and LOOK before you make that turn. Somebody could be switching lanes right then. Guess who is gonna get the ticket, NOT the guy changing lanes.

We might be on the same page here. I'm not taking about rounding the corner as if the light was green. However, a complete stop isn't always necessary either. After all, that's why many chanelized right turn only lanes are marked with yield signs.

Edited August 30, 2007 by CDeb

[TJones]

We might be on the same page here. I'm not taking about rounding the corner as if the light was green. However, a complete stop isn't always necessary either. After all, that's why many chanelized right turn only lanes are marked with yield signs.

I would say to treat it just like a stop sign. Stop, count one, two, three, and go right, if the coast is clear.

[VelvetJ]

CDeb, I think, JMHO, that rolling a right on red is JUST as dangerous. I always look at that guy or gal that is kinda angled to make that turn. The "California roll" which seems to be the norm her ein Houston for Stop signs as well as redlight turns is a major issue to me. STOP and LOOK before you make that turn.

The "California roll" is not exclusive to intersections. I tend to have problems with people exiting parking lots in general into oncoming traffic. For example at the Westheimer/Highway 6 intersection, if you are headed west on Westheimer, then turn north on Highway 6, there is a Taco Bell about 50 from the intersection where people will pull out from the parking lot in front of you. Some of them are rolling but many people will come to a complete stop, THEN decide to pull out from Taco Bell into oncoming traffic. That happens quite often. So it's possible drivers will make it through that intersection only to slam into a slow moving vehicle that has exited a parking lot into oncoming traffic.

Anyway, the city found out the state would be taking some of the proceeds so I suppose they had to make up the difference somewhere. Why not rolling right turns? If you don't make rolling right turns, you shouldn't have anything to worry about, correct?

[AftonAg]

How many more cameras are coming? Is there a certain goal amount of cameras that are scheduled to be added to the city?

The real purpose of the cameras is to generate more revenue with less manpower. The fact that fewer people run red lights, cause fewer accidents, etc is a happy coincidence.

[jfre81]

They might consider Beltway 8 @ Kempwood for a RLC.

Stopped at the westbound Kempwood light a few months ago, I was nearly hit by a car that ran the red light at ~50 mph and got T-boned by a Dodge Ram.

There was nothing left of the front end of the Ram.

[Jax]

The real purpose of the cameras is to generate more revenue with less manpower. The fact that fewer people run red lights, cause fewer accidents, etc is a happy coincidence.

Is the fact that people are running less red lights a coincidence too?

[N Judah]

Mesa, Arizona

When yellow times are lengthened at intersections, red light entries plunge. Mesa,

Arizona found a 73 percent drop in citations after the yellow light was extended.

Mesa increased the left-turn yellow arrow duration to four seconds, from three

seconds, on Nov. 14, after complaints from drivers who felt the time was too short

to safely complete their turns. The change was made at 30 intersections with dual

left-turn lanes and left-turn arrows. In November, the city issued 1,639 left-turn

arrow citations at the six intersections patrolled by cameras. In December, the

month after the change, the number fell to 716. In October, the month prior to the

change, Mesa issued 2,645 citations. (Arizona Republic, February 6, 2001.)

To most, this decrease in red-light running violations would be most welcome news. But

it was not welcome news to the city of Mesa. That’s because once yellow signal timing changes

were made, the camera went from a money-maker to a $10,000 money- loser. The response of

the local bureaucracy was typical:

Meanwhile, the department will propose eliminating the three-tenths of a second

grace period that [the camera] allows from the time a light turns red to the time

the camera flashes. ‘We want to establish a zero tolerance policy for red light

running in Mesa,’” [Mesa police Commander Richard] Clore said. (Arizona

Republic, February 6, 2001.)

How interesting, considering the return address on the stupid red light violation citation is Mesa, Arizona. For some reason HPD thought it would be a good idea to put their red light camera enforcement administration office two states away. I bet its actually a Lockheed Martin call center or something.

Oh well, at least I wasnt driving my own car.

Edited November 21, 2007 by N Judah

[mumbles]

If the people first in line at the light would take off quickly and not be stragglers, maybe we wouldn't have these long backups that make people feel they need to run the lights. Remember all those people behind you want to go to... move your @ss quickly!

[CDeb]

If the people first in line at the light would take off quickly and not be stragglers, maybe we wouldn't have these long backups that make people feel they need to run the lights. Remember all those people behind you want to go to... move your @ss quickly!

It's a good idea to make sure the intersection is clear before just gunning it on the first hint of green. You wouldn't want to be t-boned by someone who "feels the need to run the light."

[Subdude]

If the people first in line at the light would take off quickly and not be stragglers, maybe we wouldn't have these long backups that make people feel they need to run the lights. Remember all those people behind you want to go to... move your @ss quickly!

I found that frustrating too, but remember, it takes a few millisecond's reaction time for the change in the traffic light to be noticed by the eye and processed by the brain, and for the neurons to be fired from the brain down to the foot with instructions to accelerate, and for the foot to move to the gas pedal and depress it, and then for the car itself to start moving.

And of course, some people are just plain dull-witted.

[MidtownCoog]

So I found a way to cheat the cameras.

Go ahead and stop for the red. Then run it when it's all clear. No pic no tic. Works great at Smith & Elgin/Westheimer. That light has problems.

[Mr. Chenevert]

So I found a way to cheat the cameras.

Go ahead and stop for the red. Then run it when it's all clear. No pic no tic. Works great at Smith & Elgin/Westheimer. That light has problems.

That wont cheat the system. The camera's dont care if you stop first. Once you cross the white line, the system triggers the camera's to begin filming. If you go through the red, you will get ticketed. Stopping first is irrelevant and wouldnt be picked up by the camera anyways.

[MidtownCoog]

My experience says it does. And so does HPD's web site.

http://www.houstontx.gov/police/traffic_safety/ts_work.pdf

[Jax]

Are you saying that you trigger the camera and then stop, wait until it takes the series of photos, and then drive through?

How do you even know this works? Do you run red lights often? Did you already wait and see if you get a ticket?

[MidtownCoog]

I only run them when they deserve to be ran. Running red lights is generally a bad idea unless...

1. Brazos Street at Elgin Street

2. Milam Street at Elgin Street

The system is a crock and these two intersections are red light traps. But MidtownCoog told you first how to beat the system.

Don't try this at home. But it does work.