Red Light Cameras

[dbigtex56]

Thanks for proving my point.

Red Light Cameras will not make bad drivers drive better.

The bad drivers will still be out there in full force.

If I inadvertently proved any point you made, I apologize.

Red light cameras will not make bad drivers drive better? They provide the information which allows tickets to be issued. It's the fines they have to pay due to their arrogance or inattention that will cause bad drivers to reevaluate their habits. Is that so hard to follow?

[MidtownCoog]

Is that so hard to follow?

You are first person on record that says RLCs will make educate bad drivers to drive better.

And considering they don't count against your driving record, you can get as many as you can afford.

Busted logic.

[dbigtex56]

You are first person on record that says RLCs will make educate bad drivers to drive better.

And considering they don't count against your driving record, you can get as many as you can afford.

Busted logic.

The paying of fines is, to most people, an incentive to change behavior. The exceptions would include overly indulged brats. Fortunately, they're in the vast minority.

[MidtownCoog]

I still don't think the city can effectively manage this system.

The roads are terrible, lights are out of sync, and we have run out of cops.

So lets implement another overhead-heavy system for the city hall goons to mismanage.

Sorry, but I just don't see city hall as the solution.

[travelguy_73]

I still don't think the city can effectively manage this system.

The roads are terrible, lights are out of sync, and we have run out of cops.

So lets implement another overhead-heavy system for the city hall goons to mismanage.

Sorry, but I just don't see city hall as the solution.

If I was a local investigative reporter, I would be licking my chops at the nightly news potential to expose red light camera mismanagement. So far they have disappointed me, practically regurgitating camera manufacturer's press releases, but there's still hope.

[uncertaintraveler]

DPS says that you're supposed to travel one car length behind the vehicle in front of you for every 10 mph that you're travelling. If you are, then you shouldn't have a problem stopping in time for that person who is stopping at the red light, unless your car needs a brake job.

Uh...that is the measure for highway speeds. If everyone followed DPS' rule everywhere, we would have a constant "moving" gridlock, especially in downtown. Sure, drivers might be able to brake in time, but think how congested the streets would become if people are driving, on average, 20 mph through downtown!

[MiDTOWNeR]

1. RLCs are money makers. In San Diego, the cameras were not placed in places where most t-bone accidents occured but where yellow lights were the shortest. The company that installed the cameras, Lockheed-Martin, made a percentage of EVERY ticket that was given out. Citizens sued the city and Lockheed-Martin and the cameras were taken out.

YEP! They are purely for revenus purposes...They have nothing to do with safety. San Diego is where I got my $281 ticket...and that was about 7,8 years ago...wonder what it would cost now would be In most of these situations, cities dont pay one dime to have these installed. The manufacturing company installs them and everything, and both the manufacturer and city just enjoy the flood of cash.

I remember that in San Diego most of the red light cameras were at those intersections notorious for having a lot of left turn traffic. So the folks still in the intersection during the yellow/red light were just tagging along behind the rest of the traffic. So there really wasnt much danger to other drivers, as everyone else was stopped in there respective spots at the intersection just waiting for their green light, and then the tag along traffic to get through the intersections.

[musicman]

The Houston Police Department announced this morning that another 10 red-light cameras are now online. Here they are:

NB South Wayside at Gulf Freeway

NB Woodridge @ Gulf Freeway

WB West Bellfort Avenue @ Southwest Freeway

NB Fairbanks N. Houston @ Northwest Freeway

NB West Sam Houston Parkway South @ Westpark Drive

EB F.M. 2351 @ Gulf Freeway

EB South Post Oak Boulevard @ West Loop South

NB Northwest Freeway @ Mangum Road

WB South Sam Houston Parkway East @ Telephone Road

SB Stella Link Road @ South Loop West

[ricco67]

Sounds like a good list.

I know for a fact that all those are major hot spots for red light runners.

I'm rather curious to know what the status of the traffic is at the first 10 cameras that were set up.

[texas911]

Check out the Chronicle article with people voicing their opinions. Hilarious, some people are actually against this and defend running red lights. People are such idiots.

[ricco67]

Check out the Chronicle article with people voicing their opinions. Hilarious, some people are actually against this and defend running red lights. People are such idiots.

There are always people that would believe that the government is going to far one way or another.

I swear we're living with a nation of whiners.

[Mr. Chenevert]

This means if you enter the intersection when the light is yellow and you do not make it to the other side before the light turns red, you are given a ticket and there were never a chance of you causing or be involved in an accident.

Incorrect statement. If you enter the intersection on yellow, you will not get ticketed, you wont even trip the camera into taking a picture. The system is only activated when the light turns red. You have to enter the intersection while the light is already red.

[northbeaumont]

how do you define that? especially on a camera?

this is going to cause even more problems, cause you're going to have people slamming on the brakes when a light turns yellow, and the person behind them will not be able to stop in time.

A few months ago I read in the Houston Chronicle that a guy deliberately ran a red light so that he could file a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the cameras. I haven't read anything about that lately. Does anyone know if anything ever became of it?

[Jax]

I read that the light doesn't only have to be red, it has to be red BEFORE you go into the intersection in order for you to get a ticket. If that's the case, I don't see what the big deal is. I don't run red lights, so I don't worry about this being an issue for me. I have seen lots of other people here in Houston running red lights, so I actually think it's a good thing to install these cameras.

Do the people who are against red light cameras not understand that you have to go into the intersection AFTER the light turns red, or do they just like running red lights?

More than one person has brought up the issue of getting a ticket for being in an intersection when the light turns red, or for entering on a yellow light, but this isn't the way it works. I looked it up myself a while back on the HPD website.

[musicman]

A few months ago I read in the Houston Chronicle that a guy deliberately ran a red light so that he could file a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the cameras. I haven't read anything about that lately. Does anyone know if anything ever became of it?

i think he's spent something like 35k or 40k in legal fees so far.

[Mr. Chenevert]

i think he's spent something like 35k or 40k in legal fees so far.

His last name is Kubosh. He is a well known traffic attorney in the area. I have used him for speeding tickets in the past.

He is currently putting his defense together. Considering he is an attorney and owns his own law firm, I doubt he has spent any real money other than whatever his own personal time is worth.

[jgriff]

I'm for anything that results in more traffic enforcement in Houston. I'm sick of almost being run down by people going 25 miles over the speed limit, jaywalking jackasses crossing in the middle of the street, and red light runners. Just grow up and stop breaking the law.

In the last two years I've come within inches of running someone down in the street due to jaywalking. One was crossing 5 lanes of Memorial in the middle of the night and the other was walking in front of my car just as the light turned green at a stop light. There was a van next to me so I didn't see him until the very last second.

I'm amazed that someone would admit to running red lights on a regular basis and still argue against cameras. Don't you realize that it's people like you who cause us to have red light cameras? You've just given us all the proof we need... people do run red-lights knowingly and on purpose.

[musicman]

He is currently putting his defense together. Considering he is an attorney and owns his own law firm, I doubt he has spent any real money other than whatever his own personal time is worth.

concur those were the figures he used though.

[Vertigo58]

I'm for anything that results in more traffic enforcement in Houston. I'm sick of almost being run down by people going 25 miles over the speed limit, jaywalking jackasses crossing in the middle of the street, and red light runners. Just grow up and stop breaking the law.

In the last two years I've come within inches of running someone down in the street due to jaywalking. One was crossing 5 lanes of Memorial in the middle of the night and the other was walking in front of my car just as the light turned green at a stop light. There was a van next to me so I didn't see him until the very last second.

I'm amazed that someone would admit to running red lights on a regular basis and still argue against cameras. Don't you realize that it's people like you who cause us to have red light cameras? You've just given us all the proof we need... people do run red-lights knowingly and on purpose.

Downtown is notorious for pedestrian/car accidents. It was worse when the trolleys were cruising around. Never forget that day a trolley hit a construction worker crossing street @ lunch time dragging him and not even realizing it until people were flagging him down. Horrific scene.

[northbeaumont]

I'm for anything that results in more traffic enforcement in Houston. I'm sick of almost being run down by people going 25 miles over the speed limit, jaywalking jackasses crossing in the middle of the street, and red light runners. Just grow up and stop breaking the law.

In the last two years I've come within inches of running someone down in the street due to jaywalking. One was crossing 5 lanes of Memorial in the middle of the night and the other was walking in front of my car just as the light turned green at a stop light. There was a van next to me so I didn't see him until the very last second.

I'm amazed that someone would admit to running red lights on a regular basis and still argue against cameras. Don't you realize that it's people like you who cause us to have red light cameras? You've just given us all the proof we need... people do run red-lights knowingly and on purpose.

It appears that this is the way that most people define the colors of traffic lights:

RED: STOP

GREEN: GO

YELLOW: DRIVE LIKE HELL 'CAUSE THE LIGHTS' GONNA TURN RED!!!

[Jax]

Haha so true. I even catch myself speeding up at yellows, just because I see so many other people do it. Once I realize what I'm doing I always try to stop though.

[VelvetJ]

I read that the light doesn't only have to be red, it has to be red BEFORE you go into the intersection in order for you to get a ticket. If that's the case, I don't see what the big deal is. I don't run red lights, so I don't worry about this being an issue for me. I have seen lots of other people here in Houston running red lights, so I actually think it's a good thing to install these cameras.

Do the people who are against red light cameras not understand that you have to go into the intersection AFTER the light turns red, or do they just like running red lights?

More than one person has brought up the issue of getting a ticket for being in an intersection when the light turns red, or for entering on a yellow light, but this isn't the way it works. I looked it up myself a while back on the HPD website.

I do not run red lights however I am against these cameras because it's all about money and not public safety like the city has sold it. We have all witnessed those crazies that go flying through a red light loooong after they should...in fact I witnessed a incredible one on yesterday. However, I can't say I witness such behavior every day. I mostly witness the light turning yellow, people speeding up and the light turning red before they can completely clear the intersection. I do that myself. But at that point the light for the opposite drivers hasn't even turned green.

Whenever I personally am at a traffic light and it turns green, I do not automatically take off. I always try to wait until I look both ways before I proceed. This is true ESPECIALLY on feeder roads. I always look in both directions though I have the right of way. Some say it's as simple as not running red lights, I say it's as simple as looking both ways before accelerating your vehicle at traffic lights. That should help reduce those incidents.

[WesternGulf]

I do not run red lights however I am against these cameras because it's all about money and not public safety like the city has sold it.

I hear you, but even if it was for revenue why is that a big deal even if it really does make streets safer. It is sort of a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. No one is going to say it is for revenue, but it still makes the streets safer. Or are you saying they should have been sold to the city as making revenue and making the streets safer? Please don't go the "it's for my privacy route".

[Jax]

I don't get it. Why are you against the red light cameras? Can't we have cameras to catch the crazies and still look both ways before we go at a green?

The cameras have nothing to do with the yellow light speeders because they are not triggered unless you enter the intersection after the light goes red in which case the other light has gone green and it is a safety hazard.

If you go into the intersection on a yellow and it goes red before you get out, you do not get a ticket.

[CDeb]

I mostly witness the light turning yellow, people speeding up and the light turning red before they can completely clear the intersection. I do that myself. But at that point the light for the opposite drivers hasn't even turned green.

And those people do not get cited.

[VelvetJ]

I hear you, but even if it was for revenue why is that a big deal even if it really does make streets safer. It is sort of a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. No one is going to say it is for revenue, but it still makes the streets safer. Or are you saying they should have been sold to the city as making revenue and making the streets safer? Please don't go the "it's for my privacy route".

But that is just the thing WesternGulf, I do not believe these cameras have made the streets safer. From what I understand some studies show a decrease in collisions, however some show a increase due to people slamming on their breaks. Red light cameras will only cause those of us who do not run red lights to be more cautious at the intersections. I do not believe they will stop red light runners in a city the size and with the population of Houston.

Plus, I know every red light running situation isn't the reckless idiot flying through an intersection 4 seconds after a light has turned red, which is what many supporters of these cameras think of when they think of red light runners. There are traffic signals all over the city that are extremely short, particularly during rush hour, and I have witnessed the cameras flashing cars that have gone through a light that was green for only 3 seconds. And this type of situation happens in Houston more than some are willing to admit because it is easier to focus on the few extreme runners who give cameras a leg to stand on. I believe red light cameras will no more deter those runners than the death penalty deters crime in Texas, thus not making our streets safer.

So we are viewing this a little differently Western. Money is being made however you believe it has made the streets safer. I believe money is being made however it has not necessarily made the streets safer, not to mention the city of Houston isn't the only entity making money from this. Personally, I thought the timing of the lights should have been given more attention than it was given. I am surprised that some are suprised about the high rates of accidents along the feeder roads. I am surprised that some are surprised about the high rate of "red light runners" on Travis and McGowen through Midtown, without wondering if their environments have anything to do with it instead of relying on "irresponsible drivers" as the culprit. Not enough thought was put into this whole thing, if this truly was about safety, before it was given the green light....no pun intended.

And since you brought up privacy.....yes, that is a concern as well for me. Opening certain doors in the name of public safety, morality, concern for our children, love of country, etc., can lead to the opening of certain doors that I think can be dangerous to open, but that is another issue.

*Note* By the way, I am also against cameras along the freeways to so call catch drivers going over the speed limit. And please no one come at me with, "well just don't go over the speed limit and you won't have anything to worry about".

[Jax]

At least the red light camera gives those crazy dues an incentive not to run lights, otherwise there's nothing stopping them from doing it. I agree that the issue of lights staying green for only 3 seconds should be fixed, but if people are going through lights after they turn red just because the green was too short, then they should get tickets. And I don't think people will need to slam on their breaks, the yellows give you enough time to stop, and if not you can always go through the yellow without getting a ticket.

There are already cameras on most freeways that can be used to check on traffic conditions, and I'm sure they are used for security as well. are you against those, or only the ones that catch you for speeding?

[CDeb]

Yes, SOME studies show an increase in rear-end collisions.

But ALL of them show a decrease in right-angle (T-Bone) collisions, which result in more property damage, injuries and fatalities than rear-end collisions. So while the number of accidents may or may not decrease, the toll of them certainly does.

[TJones]

The red light cameras only take pictures of folks who blatantly run the light, not those already IN the intersection. So, if 1 or 2 minutes out of your day is worth $75, then by all means.

[dalparadise]

OK, as much as I am not a fan of government cameras watching me, 633 people running red lights in only 4 intersections in one month is stunning. I am of the opinion that we let the city have their cameras, as long as they do what they say. Once they start getting mission creep, we jump down their throats.

BTW, the "money maker" argument is such a non-argument. Every single infraction you make is a money maker, including the ones where the cops catch you in person. Cash penalties are how you gain compliance. Those who don't like paying $75 will start stopping at the lights. Those that don't like parking tickets will start dumping quarters in the meter.

Better?

Besides, why would the government invade our privacy with red light cameras? We have already willingly given them much more effective means. I'd bet everyone reading this has a microphone, tracking device, satellite transmitter and even a camera strapped to his or her person right now. In fact, you may even be lusting after even more advanced models that will make it easier to monitor your every move.

I've been suspicious of cell phones forever.