University Debates: Sports, Fundings, And Developments

[ADCS]

Well, I applaud your honesty "it's not an issue of fairness."

 

It's not an issue of fairness when it comes to the distribution of State funds? Presently there are over 100,000 students enrolled in the University of Houston system and Texas Tech. Apparently you are of the opinion that they, and their families, are inferior citizens not entitled to an equal sharing in the money the state can expend on higher education. Why don't we just close those schools and direct all the state's resources to the expansion of the UT system? Obviously, God made the UT Austin in his image.

 

It's not an issue of institutional fairness, because it is an issue of what is best for the state as a whole. In my opinion, it is in the state's best interest to have a world-class flagship university that drives research, technology and economic development.

[arbpro]

It's not an issue of institutional fairness, because it is an issue of what is best for the state as a whole. In my opinion, it is in the state's best interest to have a world-class flagship university that drives research, technology and economic development.

 

The judicial system exists, in part, to dispense equity - fairness. When separate did not really mean equal, the courts stepped in and changed the education landscape.

 

As I have already said, and apparently you defer, Dr. Khator is not going to permit this to happen without a fight. Be careful what you ask for from the ivory towers, you might find yourself evicted from the castle and living amongst the poor. Oh, what a shame that would be for the privileged elite to have to experience life at the proletariat level.

[arbpro]

 

^^^ who told you that "people of color" didn't attend institutions of higher learning (colleges / universities) during the era of the PUF???

we may not have been able to attend CERTAIN colleges due to open and blatant white racism...

but i can honestly assure you that "people of color" certainly attended colleges / universities....

 

 

With respect to your reference to "open and blatant white racism," I assume you refer to the UT. See Sweatt v. Painter, where UT was judicially forced to integrate.

[ADCS]

The judicial system exists, in part, to dispense equity - fairness. When separate did not really mean equal, the courts stepped in and changed the education landscape.

 

As I have already said, and apparently you defer, Dr. Khator is not going to permit this to happen without a fight. Be careful what you ask for from the ivory towers, you might find yourself evicted from the castle and living amongst the poor. Oh, what a shame that would be for the privileged elite to have to experience life at the proletariat level.

 

Everyone in Texas has an equal chance to attend UT or A&M. Some have a more-than-equal chance owing to efforts to mitigate social disadvantages. Distribution of funding is seen primarily as a political question by most judicial authorities, unless it's a clear disparity to the disfavor of some suspect class, such as in the case of segregated schools.

 

I don't understand why there would be a reason to dispute the notion that the university's president is going to fight this development. I am disputing the wisdom of doing so.

[monarch]

With respect to your reference to "open and blatant white racism," I assume you refer to the UT. See Sweatt v. Painter, where UT was judicially forced to integrate.

^^^ dead on... for this is exactly what i meant!  however, this disgusting / blatant racism did not stop "people of color" from attending other colleges / universities... right??

[august948]

^^^ dead on... for this is exactly what i meant!  however, this disgusting / blatant racism did not stop "people of color" from attending other colleges / universities... right??

 

Indeed not, though in the time era we're talking about (late 1800's) they had to attend different colleges from whites in Texas.  As it happens the PUF was established by the Texas Constitution of 1876.  Paul Quinn College (historically black) was established in 1872 and thus slightly predates the PUF.  Paul Quinn also predates UT (established 1883).

 

[august948]

Regarding students enrolled at UofH and Texas Tech and their supposed inferior status...yes I can assure you that A&M students and Texas students do feel superior.  University education is a bit of a meritocracy, you have to actually apply for entry and everything.

 

I'm pretty sure there is no state in the country that intends for all of the Universities they fund to be equal to one another.

 

You can't be too elite when the best selling beers at your stadium are Miller Light, Bud Light, and Coors Light.  Honorable mention for Lone Star.

 

http://www.chron.com/local/education/campus-chronicles/article/UT-made-half-a-million-off-Miller-Lites-this-6738757.php#photo-9210966

 

[mollusk]

UT was my safety school, and I was nowhere near the top 10% of my class.  

 

Admittedly, that was some time ago.

[august948]

UT was my safety school, and I was nowhere near the top 10% of my class.  

 

Admittedly, that was some time ago.

 

I was UT bound until Baylor coughed up a full-tuition scholarship.  This was way before the 10% rule but I was out of state at the time anyway.

 

[samagon]

It's not an issue of institutional fairness, because it is an issue of what is best for the state as a whole. In my opinion, it is in the state's best interest to have a world-class flagship university that drives research, technology and economic development.

 

you should finish the sentence:

 

... to the detriment of other universities in the state.

 

I mean, because that's what is going to happen should they build in Houston. Give UT all the money, that's fine, UH does very well on their own, but as UH is such a major commuter school, to let UT build a campus anywhere in Houston would be to the severe detriment of UH.

 

Either way though, UH does excel in one area that UT and A&M will find won't be so easy to match. UH has the best campus coffee shop

[samagon]

You can't be too elite when the best selling beers at your stadium are Miller Light, Bud Light, and Coors Light.  Honorable mention for Lone Star.

 

 

 

Lone Star is a damn fine beer, if you lump it into the same category as that other swill, we gonna have words.

 

But seriously... of regular American beers (not craft beers), Lone Star and Coors (the banquet beer, not light) are really very refreshing beers to drink in the spring/summer/fall months. The rest of that crap is crap.

[august948]

Lone Star is a damn fine beer, if you lump it into the same category as that other swill, we gonna have words.

 

But seriously... of regular American beers (not craft beers), Lone Star and Coors (the banquet beer, not light) are really very refreshing beers to drink in the spring/summer/fall months. The rest of that crap is crap.

 

I must respectfully disagree, Shiner should be the National Beer of Texas.  Lone Star should be exported to places where people put ice in their beer glasses.

 

Wouldn't hurt to have an import ban on Coors as well, but I guess UT alums must have something to drink.

 

I should also note that UH does have the best coffee shop by far, but I don't recall ever seeing Lone Star sold there.  Perhaps that's part of why it's the best (in addition to the Katz's coffee).

 

[ADCS]

you should finish the sentence:

 

... to the detriment of other universities in the state.

 

I mean, because that's what is going to happen should they build in Houston. Give UT all the money, that's fine, UH does very well on their own, but as UH is such a major commuter school, to let UT build a campus anywhere in Houston would be to the severe detriment of UH.

 

Either way though, UH does excel in one area that UT and A&M will find won't be so easy to match. UH has the best campus coffee shop

 

It's not to anyone's detriment, and it's only people who think these universities are in competition with each other who think so. Leave the competition on the football field.

[samagon]

I must respectfully disagree, Shiner should be the National Beer of Texas.  Lone Star should be exported to places where people put ice in their beer glasses.

 

Wouldn't hurt to have an import ban on Coors as well, but I guess UT alums must have something to drink.

 

I should also note that UH does have the best coffee shop by far, but I don't recall ever seeing Lone Star sold there.  Perhaps that's part of why it's the best (in addition to the Katz's coffee).

 

 

I don't think you're disagreeing with me, since Shiner isn't a regular American beer, even though it's owned by a regular American beer company these days. 

 

Shiner has really amazing offerings, and I put Shiner Premium on a level with quality stuff that comes from Germany.

 

And we do offer Lone Star, it's just hidden in the bottom of the cooler

[KinkaidAlum]

$670,000 an acre and they're trying to sell it as a great value? Also, the money being spent on this is coming from the PUF? This smells worse than originally thought. Who is this mystery "donor" who will be making bank right when oil is tanking and commercial real estate is faltering?

[urbanize713]

KinkaidAlum I think you've out played your hand. Give it up. No one ever said this was about value. This was about the most prestigious public university in the state setting up a research campus in the biggest city in the state. You've tried to twist and turn it but in the end reality prevails. Just hang it up. Wisdom and money prevails.

Edited January 21, 2016 by urbanize713

[arbpro]

KinkaidAlum I think you've out played your hand. Give it up. No one ever said this was about value. This was about the most prestigious public university in the state setting up a research campus in the biggesti city in the state. You've tried to twist and turn it but in the end reality prevails. Just hang it up. Wisdom and money prevails.

 

"Research campus?" 

Every rendering has shown athletic fields and sports facilities. Is that research? 

[jt16]

KinkaidAlum I think you've out played your hand. Give it up. No one ever said this was about value. This was about the most prestigious public university in the state setting up a research campus in the biggesti city in the state. You've tried to twist and turn it but in the end reality prevails. Just hang it up. Wisdom and money prevails.

Yeah, nobody question what's going on here. What is this, America?

[samagon]

KinkaidAlum I think you've out played your hand. Give it up. No one ever said this was about value. This was about the most prestigious public university in the state setting up a research campus in the biggesti city in the state. You've tried to twist and turn it but in the end reality prevails. Just hang it up. Wisdom and money prevails.

 

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

 

and at the end, money prevails for sure, but wisdom isn't in the picture.

[kyle]

 

 

 

"astound people with our boldness."

^^^ this is the way that we do things at TEXAS...

 

 

 

All you need to do to make this quote more representative of reality is replace "boldness" with "arrogance".

 

Using PUF money, to which UH doesn't have access, to buy land in Houston under the guise of a "research hub" without the knowledge, much less approval, of the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board, only to admit that this "research hub" will offer undergraduate and graduate courses (which sounds a lot more like a university than a "research hub"-- whatever that term is supposed to mean) sounds about par for the course for "TEXAS".

 

Never mind the fact that the PUF can in no way fund the construction of buildings/labs, the hiring of faculty/staff/researchers, nor the ongoing operations of a 300 acre university, which means that "TEXAS" will be going to the State for new, ongoing funding for this redundant, ego-inflating project of theirs. Where does that money come from?

 

Yeah... it's astounding alright.

Edited January 21, 2016 by kyle

[ADCS]

All I keep taking away from this thread is that UH folks are upset that they don't have access to the PUF or the Big 12. I don't see any vision of an alternative that would be better for Houston and the state. It smacks of tribalism.

[htownproud]

KinkaidAlum I think you've out played your hand. Give it up. No one ever said this was about value. This was about the most prestigious public university in the state setting up a research campus in the biggesti city in the state. You've tried to twist and turn it but in the end reality prevails. Just hang it up. Wisdom and money prevails.

 

Please read the article: "McRaven, facing opposition to the project from University of Houston officials and some lawmakers, on Wednesday told a legislative committee that the price, which includes debt service, is a good deal. . . 'You're looking at undeveloped property 3.5 miles from the Texas Medical Center and we got it below market price,' McRaven said."

[shasta]

All I keep taking away from this thread is that UH folks are upset that they don't have access to the PUF or the Big 12. I don't see any vision of an alternative that would be better for Houston and the state. It smacks of tribalism.

 

If this passes then I expect NO RESTRICTIONS when UH tries to build a UH-Austin a few miles form UT-Austin.

 

Have you guys forgotten that UH is a system as well? They currently have 70,000+ students and 4 campuses (UH Main, UH Downtown, UH Victoria, UH Sugarland plus a satellite Hospitality college in San Antonio). and they are currently looking to expand by building a new UH-Katy and a new Medical School.

 

IF the state is foolish enough to open up this can of worms then I fully expect UH to strike back with a UH- Austin and a UH- College Station because after all, this is what is best for capitalistic markets...forget quality of education in academic environments by having the state cannibalize its OWN STATE SCHOOLS...right guys?

 

My contention is that UT, UH, or TAMU can build a satellite campus in ANY OTHER TEXAS CITY except for the ones where there are already LARGE PUBLIC STATE SCHOOLS FUNDED BY TEXAS TAX PAYERS. That would eliminate expansion into  Houston (UH), Austin (UT), College Station (TAMU), Lubbock (TTU), and San Marcos (TX ST). UT is fine to build a UT-Woodlands...just stay away from the land a few miles from the main campus of the University of Houston.

Edited January 21, 2016 by shasta

[kdog08]

"Research campus?" 

Every rendering has shown athletic fields and sports facilities. Is that research? 

 

It looks more recreational to me, more than likely intramural sports. 

[kdog08]

All I keep taking away from this thread is that UH folks are upset that they don't have access to the PUF or the Big 12. I don't see any vision of an alternative that would be better for Houston and the state. It smacks of tribalism.

 

They just want a share of the pie and rightfully so. 

[Houston19514]

I guess we should demand they pack up their UT Health Science Center and UT MD Anderson Cancer Center and get the hell out of our town altogether.  And take UTMB along too.  We don't need their stinkin' burnt orange anywhere in our town.

 

(And yes, I'm being totally sarcastic.)  It appears it's time, again, for some peoploe to review what has actually been proposed.

[AREJAY]

If this passes then I expect NO RESTRICTIONS when UH tries to build a UH-Austin a few miles form UT-Austin.

 

Have you guys forgotten that UH is a system as well? They currently have 70,000+ students and 4 campuses (UH Main, UH Downtown, UH Victoria, UH Sugarland plus a satellite Hospitality college in San Antonio). and they are currently looking to expand by building a new UH-Katy and a new Medical School.

 

IF the state is foolish enough to open up this can of worms then I fully expect UH to strike back with a UH- Austin and a UH- College Station because after all, this is what is best for capitalistic markets...forget quality of education in academic environments by having the state cannibalize its OWN STATE SCHOOLS...right guys?

 

My contention is that UT, UH, or TAMU can build a satellite campus in ANY OTHER TEXAS CITY except for the ones where there are already LARGE PUBLIC STATE SCHOOLS FUNDED BY TEXAS TAX PAYERS. That would eliminate expansion into  Houston (UH), Austin (UT), College Station (TAMU), Lubbock (TTU), and San Marcos (TX ST). UT is fine to build a UT-Woodlands...just stay away from the land a few miles from the main campus of the University of Houston.

lol

[monarch]

^^^ what on earth has happened to this thread... is this really happening...??

[H-Town Man]

Was this thread ever anything other than Comedy Central?

 

I admit, I did not help matters by getting sucked in early on.

 

[arbpro]

It looks more recreational to me, more than likely intramural sports. 

 

You are probably correct, but nobody knows because UT has been very secretive. The Chairman of the Education Committee stated he knew nothing about the purchase of the land until he read about it in the newspaper. That is not how the process has always worked in the past and is a clear sign that UT intends to argue if they receive resistance to the project from the legislature, "well, what are we suppose to do with this land that we now own?"

 

From a humorous standpoint, maybe it will be a research location and the sports fields and facilities are only tools for the university's intended area of specialization - sports research. If that is the case, then the initial mission of the research university would be to ascertain how the mothership can receive over a 100 million dollars in sports revenues every year and be unable to field a competitive football team.