Downtown Apartment Market

[swtsig]

On 8/15/2018 at 6:07 AM, kbates2 said:

Very solid post.  My thought is not that we are down in the dumps though, I am just wondering if Austin’s 13k residents is close to a critical mass that we can shoot for in terms of reaching a level of recreational downtown to where it feels like a completely different place.

 

austin's downtown resident population is actually around 15K (probably a bit more) so essentially double Houston's. right before (or maybe after) i left their mayor established an initiaitve to increase their downtown population to something like 20 or 25K within 10 years. this would've been a good 4 or 5 years before our DLI so they had a decent head start. due to their zoning they definitely have a more cohesive downtown but we'll get there with time. we'll never have as strong a recreational/nightlife component, particularly from a restaurant/bar and hotel perspective but they'll never match our arts and professional sports scene either. they're also light years away from being the professional hub that Houston has downtown, but they've made great strides there due to the tech boom.

 

basically both cities are kicking ass... austin may always be hipper but houston can't be overlooked anymore as it's traditionally been. if only we could create some sort of large semi-natural water oasis near downtown... that is so desperately needed.

[Avossos]

1 hour ago, swtsig said:

 

austin's downtown resident population is actually around 15K (probably a bit more) so essentially double Houston's. right before (or maybe after) i left their mayor established an initiaitve to increase their downtown population to something like 20 or 25K within 10 years. this would've been a good 4 or 5 years before our DLI so they had a decent head start. due to their zoning they definitely have a more cohesive downtown but we'll get there with time. we'll never have as strong a recreational/nightlife component, particularly from a restaurant/bar and hotel perspective but they'll never match our arts and professional sports scene either. they're also light years away from being the professional hub that Houston has downtown, but they've made great strides there due to the tech boom.

 

basically both cities are kicking ass... austin may always be hipper but houston can't be overlooked anymore as it's traditionally been. if only we could create some sort of large semi-natural water oasis near downtown... that is so desperately needed.

 

I am not sure about 'large' but the bayou and park should be continually invested in, improved, maintained, etc... the connectivity park wise is already badass and it will only get better!

[H-Town Man]

6 hours ago, swtsig said:

if only we could create some sort of large semi-natural water oasis near downtown... that is so desperately needed.

 

Moving I-45 will let us do something nice with the bayou right there, but then there's the downtown connector, expanded from four lanes to six lanes, with shoulders... oh well.

[kennyc05]

10 hours ago, swtsig said:

 

austin's downtown resident population is actually around 15K (probably a bit more) so essentially double Houston's. right before (or maybe after) i left their mayor established an initiaitve to increase their downtown population to something like 20 or 25K within 10 years. this would've been a good 4 or 5 years before our DLI so they had a decent head start. due to their zoning they definitely have a more cohesive downtown but we'll get there with time. we'll never have as strong a recreational/nightlife component, particularly from a restaurant/bar and hotel perspective but they'll never match our arts and professional sports scene either. they're also light years away from being the professional hub that Houston has downtown, but they've made great strides there due to the tech boom.

 

basically both cities are kicking ass... austin may always be hipper but houston can't be overlooked anymore as it's traditionally been. if only we could create some sort of large semi-natural water oasis near downtown... that is so desperately needed.

Depends on the circle you hang with as far as Austin being hipper than Houston. I don't think it is in ny opinion. 

[UtterlyUrban]

3 hours ago, kennyc05 said:

Depends on the circle you hang with as far as Austin being hipper than Houston. I don't think it is in ny opinion. 

I was walking slightly in front of a gaggle of 20 year olds 6 months ago and I could overhear them.  They were from Austin (students?).  Anyway, one of the gaggle postulated:  “downtown Houston is way better than downtown Austin.......”.   The gaggle quickly agreed.

 

 

[bobruss]

A lot of the buzz in downtown Austin is the incredible amount of tourists the city attracts and the proximity to UT and the capitol. 

During the legislative session restaurants and hotels get much busier. If it wasn't for UT, they would'nt have a museum. It took forever to develop a true concert hall.

The arts have come a long way in Austin, but light years behind Houston. It doesn't hurt that they have a controlled river that runs right through it.

[H-Town Man]

Also worth noting that our urban core (3 mile radius) is far denser than Austin's and is the densest in Texas. When you leave downtown Austin you fall off a cliff in most directions. Lack of zoning helps us with this.

[Sparrow]

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 3:54 PM, swtsig said:

basically both cities are kicking ass... austin may always be hipper but houston can't be overlooked anymore as it's traditionally been. if only we could create some sort of large semi-natural water oasis near downtown... that is so desperately needed.

 

On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 11:53 AM, bobruss said:

A lot of the buzz in downtown Austin is the incredible amount of tourists the city attracts and the proximity to UT and the capitol. 

During the legislative session restaurants and hotels get much busier. If it wasn't for UT, they would'nt have a museum. It took forever to develop a true concert hall.

The arts have come a long way in Austin, but light years behind Houston. It doesn't hurt that they have a controlled river that runs right through it.

 

Wouldn't it be great to create Lake Barker and Lake Addicks. We would end up having a much more controlled Buffalo Bayou much along the lines of what Austin has with it's river. Imagine how much more could be done if you didn't have to worry about flooding. Our reservoirs are actually larger in land area than Lake Travis (26k vs 19k), but only hold about a third as much water (~400,000 acre feet vs ~1.1M acre feet). We'd be much more prepared for the next Harvey. Sure we don't have the topography that accompanies Lake Travis, but who cares. Get digging.

 

 

[H-Town Man]

5 hours ago, Sparrow said:

 

 

Wouldn't it be great to create Lake Barker and Lake Addicks. We would end up having a much more controlled Buffalo Bayou much along the lines of what Austin has with it's river. Imagine how much more could be done if you didn't have to worry about flooding. Our reservoirs are actually larger in land area than Lake Travis (26k vs 19k), but only hold about a third as much water (~400,000 acre feet vs ~1.1M acre feet). We'd be much more prepared for the next Harvey. Sure we don't have the topography that accompanies Lake Travis, but who cares. Get digging.

 

 

 

But if we put water in it then we lose storage capacity for heavy rains. I think there must be a reason they didn't do this already.

[Nate99]

13 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

But if we put water in it then we lose storage capacity for heavy rains. I think there must be a reason they didn't do this already.

 

You could always dig them out deeper with the existing floor being the new lake level; I'm sure the civil engineers could come up with something given enough funding. The creeks that feed into Barker and Addicks are pretty tiny outside of flood events, that might make these lakes semi-stagnant, though one might say the same of the existing bayous. 

[H-Town Man]

4 hours ago, Nate99 said:

 

You could always dig them out deeper with the existing floor being the new lake level; I'm sure the civil engineers could come up with something given enough funding. The creeks that feed into Barker and Addicks are pretty tiny outside of flood events, that might make these lakes semi-stagnant, though one might say the same of the existing bayous. 

 

I think that given the cost to dig them deeper and the other flood-mitigation projects we need, the only way this gets done is if we dig them deeper out of necessity, i.e. to hold more flood water, not to provide a scenic feature and hold the same amount of flood water. Benefits of having lakes there are reduced given that you won't see the lake from I-10 due to the high berm so it won't impact the city's image as much as a Lake Ray Hubbard would, the lake won't have a natural shape, and with there being high earth walls around it, you won't be able to do the normal marinas and stuff. You could do them on the inflow side but then everything would get flooded whenever there's a big storm. Plus you'd lose major forested parks that that part of town needs as much or maybe more than it needs a lake.

Edited August 20, 2018 by H-Town Man

[Nate99]

1 hour ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I think that given the cost to dig them deeper and the other flood-mitigation projects we need, the only way this gets done is if we dig them deeper out of necessity, i.e. to hold more flood water, not to provide a scenic feature and hold the same amount of flood water. Benefits of having lakes there are reduced given that you won't see the lake from I-10 due to the high berm so it won't impact the city's image as much as a Lake Ray Hubbard would, the lake won't have a natural shape, and with there being high earth walls around it, you won't be able to do the normal marinas and stuff. You could do them on the inflow side but then everything would get flooded whenever there's a big storm. Plus you'd lose major forested parks that that part of town needs as much or maybe more than it needs a lake.

 

Right. I'm certainly no visionary, but it seems like it would be more trouble than it is worth. 

[HoustonIsHome]

They could always dig an over flow channel that runs southerly and flood Sugarland instead of Houston   

 

Would the berms have to be that high of your holding the water in the ground instead of above? 

 

Wouldn't it be better to mitigate flooding by having the detention basin deeper in the ground anyway than having high berms? 

 

Wouldn't letting the water slowing steep into the Ground help? Unless we have back to back extreme rain events before the level in the lakes decrease, a temp lake may help. I dunno  the current set up is no longer working. Extreme rain events send to be a yearly occurrence so I dunno maybe it's fine to get creative. Aerial views of this thing during Harvey is crazy: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/houston-dams-probable-maximum-flood-vs-500-year-flood/amp

 

What would they do with all the excavated dirt? Houston Hills? 

 

I'm thinking that for most of the year the water levels in the lake would be a lot lower than we are all imagining.  

 

How deep would it go before it gets too cost prohibitive? How much volume would it increase by if it was dug.   Talks of a 3rd reservoir have been carrying a $500M price tag. $2.5B was just approved for flood mitigation projects

[H-Town Man]

On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 1:42 PM, HoustonIsHome said:

They could always dig an over flow channel that runs southerly and flood Sugarland instead of Houston   

 

Would the berms have to be that high of your holding the water in the ground instead of above? 

 

Wouldn't it be better to mitigate flooding by having the detention basin deeper in the ground anyway than having high berms? 

 

Wouldn't letting the water slowing steep into the Ground help? Unless we have back to back extreme rain events before the level in the lakes decrease, a temp lake may help. I dunno  the current set up is no longer working. Extreme rain events send to be a yearly occurrence so I dunno maybe it's fine to get creative. Aerial views of this thing during Harvey is crazy: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/houston-dams-probable-maximum-flood-vs-500-year-flood/amp

 

What would they do with all the excavated dirt? Houston Hills? 

 

I'm thinking that for most of the year the water levels in the lake would be a lot lower than we are all imagining.  

 

How deep would it go before it gets too cost prohibitive? How much volume would it increase by if it was dug.   Talks of a 3rd reservoir have been carrying a $500M price tag. $2.5B was just approved for flood mitigation projects

 

The high berms are already there. We are not going to move them when they are protecting the central city. If we dig deeper, it will be so we can hold more water in major rain events. We would not pay all the money to dig deeper, then pay all the money to remove the berms, only to have no net gain in water holding capacity.

 

Also, I think there are problems with a deeply dug lake if you are wanting something aesthetic. Steep banks and deep earth clay do not make for a pretty lake.

 

[Houston19514]

3rd Quarter, 2018:

 

Downtown population continues to grow fast.  A net 314 units were absorbed in the CBD, while zero new units were delivered.  (Assuming 1.4 people per occupied apartment, downtown added almost 150 people per month during the 3rd quarter.)

 

The "Central Houston" market (downtown, Montrose/Museum/Midtown, Heights/Wash Ave., Highland Village/Upper Kirby/West U, and Med Center/Braes Bayou) delivered 786 new units during the quarter, with 975 units net absorption.

[H-Town Man]

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

3rd Quarter, 2018:

 

Downtown population continues to grow fast.  A net 314 units were absorbed in the CBD, while zero new units were delivered.  (Assuming 1.4 people per occupied apartment, downtown added almost 150 people per month during the 3rd quarter.)

 

The "Central Houston" market (downtown, Montrose/Museum/Midtown, Heights/Wash Ave., Highland Village/Upper Kirby/West U, and Med Center/Braes Bayou) delivered 786 new units during the quarter, with 975 units net absorption.

 

Thanks. Does your source show occupancy or rent growth for downtown?

[downtownian]

Q4 2018: 

 

Downtown’s residential population is close to reaching the 10,000-mark. At the end of 2018, Downtown had an estimated 9,395 residents, up from 3,021 in 2010 (a 211% increase). Downtown also had strong rent growth, averaging the highest monthly rent in the region, at $2,032, reflecting robust interest in Downtown living. 2018 heralded a turning point in Downtown’s multifamily market. Downtown went from having the lowest occupancy rate in the region in 2017 to being named the hottest submarket by Apartmentdata.com, Marcus & Millichap, and Berkadia, recording a massive yearover-year jump in occupancy from 62.3 percent in Q 3 2017 to 83.9 percent in Q 3 2018 (Berkadia 2018).

 

Source to read more (also has office information):

http://www.downtowndistrict.org/static/media/uploads/attachments/downtown_market_update_2018_q4_final.pdf

 

[nate4l1f3]

I see the parking garage is still planned at Crawford and Texas. Bummer. 

[Luminare]

Wow...784 total residents in Downtown in 1990. Now we have almost 10,000! Thats an impressive improvement. Especially when most of that jump has been within the past 10 years. Incredible change and it shows. The momentum is real and its now visible when you are out there at night. We can't stop here though we have to keep movin.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Luminare

[UtterlyUrban]

For the last year, Downtown is starting to feel like a neighborhood.

 

 

[Timoric]

-

Edited July 12, 2019 by Timoric

[BeerNut]

So I guess we can call the Downtown Living Initiative a success now that residential and hotels continue to get built without tax incentives.

[Nate99]

I like HTown's 50K idea, maybe inclusive of Midtown that would effectively merge at that point. 

 

Houston's sprawl is at a tipping point. It's not going to stop, but the tradeoffs of living in a denser area are meeting up with the tradeoffs of an ever lengthening commute.

[Luminare]

1 hour ago, Nate99 said:

I like HTown's 50K idea, maybe inclusive of Midtown that would effectively merge at that point. 

 

Houston's sprawl is at a tipping point. It's not going to stop, but the tradeoffs of living in a denser area are meeting up with the tradeoffs of an ever lengthening commute.

 

Is that 50k in Downtown alone? That would be incredible. That would be comparable to some of the densist cities in America. Do we even have areas of the size of downtown with 50,000? I think this should be the goal every district here in town. Its definitely possible for most districts to not only get that much but also maintain some cores of original single family sized homes in pockets if they desire to maintain that lineage.

[Houston19514]

17 hours ago, nate4l1f3 said:

I see the parking garage is still planned at Crawford and Texas. Bummer. 

 

???  Parking garage at Crawford and Texas??

[brijonmang]

17 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

???  Parking garage at Crawford and Texas??

Page 24, 300 car garage for Incarnate Word/Church

[Luminare]

15 minutes ago, brijonmang said:

Page 24, 300 car garage for Incarnate Word/Church

 

That would be both hilarious and sad if they demo that great looking church for a parking garage.

[brijonmang]

8 minutes ago, Luminare said:

 

That would be both hilarious and sad if they demo that great looking church for a parking garage.

Maybe it's just the closest major street intersection and the actual site that is in question is the current surface lot along Jackson Street between Texas and Capitol.

[Luminare]

Just now, brijonmang said:

Maybe it's just the closest major street intersection and the actual site that is in question is the current surface lot along Jackson Street between Texas and Capitol.

 

Honestly. Would be interesting if they moved the church to that parking lot. Close down abandon Jackson Street and Chenevert St. Convert that portion of Avenida De Las Americas into a pedistrian walk. Then put the parking garage in its former location. I could then imagine putting a marquee type building on part of that block between capital and rusk and then turning the rest into a genuine square. That would be a cool idea. Hmm. Might have to do a sketch of that over lunch.

[j_cuevas713]

I think if we can double that population in the next 5 to 10 years, Houston will start to get the retail and dry goods we are all wanting to see. Along with some big name companies moving here.