Uptown And Galleria Area Real Estate

[jdbaker]

Calling on Plastic. Where are you Plastic? This is a thread for ideas about the Galleria staying open 24 hours. Do you think it would work? Thoughts?

Best post ever! I can't stop laughing.

[Jeebus]

OMG, Jeebus is back from the dead. . .

When did I die?

[dalparadise]

The mall as entertainment is an anachonistic idea. Plus, even in New York and Vegas, Tiffany is closed at night.

Edited March 15, 2007 by dalparadise

[desirous]

The Galleria has no business staying open for 24 hours. However, I strong believe it should stay open later than regular malls do, being what it is to many Houstonians. 10PM on weekdays and 12AM on weekends would be wise.

[what]

The Galleria has no business staying open for 24 hours. However, I strong believe it should stay open later than regular malls do, being what it is to many Houstonians. 10PM on weekdays and 12AM on weekends would be wise.

It's dead at 9pm on Fridays and Saturday anyway, so am not sure why that would be necessary ?

[Montrose1100]

I think the Galleria being 24 hours is a nice thought, but no way it would work out... I can't think of any major retail centers open 24 hours... The shops close in manhattan at night too ya know.

The Galleria is a big mix of things - a family place to take your daughter ice skating, a shopping palace for the rich and middle class alike, a glamourous place to see and be seen, a business place with offices & hotels, a food court, you get the idea...

Its so many things, but definately not a 24 hour club/bar.

[worldlyman]

Maybe the mindset of Houston needs to change and someone,somebody,something needs to initiate change. Houston is too much status quo, conservative. Pretty sad.

Regarding something like a 24 hour Galleria and the conservative ascriptions thereof...it's not just a Houston thing...America in general is conservative in terms of keeping late hours with the total exception of New York and Las Vegas. Driving down Wilshire in LA through Beverly Hills at 11 pm most nights is even a bit deader than nocturnal 610 and Westheimer. Of course, Vegas is sort of artificial with no real culture and the gambling is something that keeps people up for days on end. New York...if you lived there, how can you sleep anyway?

From San Diego to Tampa Bay...people who spend the upscale money go to bed early typically...or they certainly do not keep in mind buying that pair of thousand dollar gloves at 3:30 am. It's not a "conservative Houston" thing per se. In Spain, people get socially started for the night at midnight! So no, this is America where the underlying Anglo Puritan heritage makes most of us in bed by 9 or 10 pm (except those of us who work 2nd or 3rd shift hours...and that demographic certainly ain't no Tiffany or Cartier shopping one!).

The Galleria itself is private property so I don't see that Swedish type of right-to-the-land thing applying to it in a 24 hour context anyway. It's not profitable to the property owners or merchants.

Edited April 3, 2007 by worldlyman

[jmancuso]

the 24 hour thing won't work; all the punk teenagers and thugs will be hanging around late.

[Kenneth]

This is my observation..from someone who just moved to Houston and got a job at the Galleria.

I can't see how people are going to expand the Galleria when it is pretty much locked into place as it is. The 610 on one side, the office buildings on another, all of those older strip malls, and then regular residences (not condos) smacked right next to the Galleria area.

There needs to be another transportation option for the Galleria, because in the future no matter what new store opens, you will see more and more people going to the place and the traffic on Westheimer would get worse.

Is there a reason why a subway can't be built? Is Houston below sea-level? A subway line could help alleviate parking for many families, individuals, people going to work at the Galleria.

[barracuda]

Is there a reason why a subway can't be built? Is Houston below sea-level? A subway line could help alleviate parking for many families, individuals, people going to work at the Galleria.

No, the Galleria area is about 50-60 feet above sea level. I don't think a subway will ever be built in Houston due to the cost. However, the light rail should eventually reach the area.

[houstonmacbro]

Actually, the galleria going 24hrs is a good idea. I don't think you can go wrong on that.

Yes, and the SBUX at Westheimer @ Post Oak is proving that there IS a market for late-night/all-night establishments.

This is my observation..from someone who just moved to Houston and got a job at the Galleria.

I can't see how people are going to expand the Galleria when it is pretty much locked into place as it is. The 610 on one side, the office buildings on another, all of those older strip malls, and then regular residences (not condos) smacked right next to the Galleria area.

There needs to be another transportation option for the Galleria, because in the future no matter what new store opens, you will see more and more people going to the place and the traffic on Westheimer would get worse.

Is there a reason why a subway can't be built? Is Houston below sea-level? A subway line could help alleviate parking for many families, individuals, people going to work at the Galleria.

They could tear down that Dillards and annex that space. Who knows, they could also venture north across the parking lot and into the area where B&N is.

[ricco67]

Yes, and the SBUX at Westheimer @ Post Oak is proving that there IS a market for late-night/all-night establishments.

They could tear down that Dillards and annex that space. Who knows, they could also venture north across the parking lot and into the area where B&N is.

Welcome to the board Kenneth.

again, I don't see Galleria being 24hrs in the near future, but I wouldn't doubt that it will be in the future as more hotels and residences move into the area. You also forget about the poor schmucks that have serious cases of Jet Lag, also, there are professionals that keep odd hours (World Markets, etc) and such.

I think they're planning on absorbing that crappy strip center on Sage, aren't they? I wouldn't also doubt if they merge and build over Post oak and join/expand/demolish Dillards. Now if it goes over Westheimer to where B&N is, then that would be awesome and it would definitely be huge!

A subway I think would be built, but only into the far future after the lightrail has already reached capacity. Although, a direct entrance to an overhead shop in the mall would really be cool!

[MiDTOWNeR]

Regarding something like a 24 hour Galleria and the conservative ascriptions thereof...it's not just a Houston thing...America in general is conservative in terms of keeping late hours with the total exception of New York and Las Vegas. Driving down Wilshire in LA through Beverly Hills at 11 pm most nights is even a bit deader than nocturnal 610 and Westheimer. Of course, Vegas is sort of artificial with no real culture and the gambling is something that keeps people up for days on end. New York...if you lived there, how can you sleep anyway?

From San Diego to Tampa Bay...people who spend the upscale money go to bed early typically...or they certainly do not keep in mind buying that pair of thousand dollar gloves at 3:30 am. It's not a "conservative Houston" thing per se. In Spain, people get socially started for the night at midnight! So no, this is America where the underlying Anglo Puritan heritage makes most of us in bed by 9 or 10 pm (except those of us who work 2nd or 3rd shift hours...and that demographic certainly ain't no Tiffany or Cartier shopping one!).

The Galleria itself is private property so I don't see that Swedish type of right-to-the-land thing applying to it in a 24 hour context anyway. It's not profitable to the property owners or merchants.

So, your saying that the high end stores similar to what one would find in Beverly Hills are open late or 24 hrs in New York City?

[what]

So, your saying that the high end stores similar to what one would find in Beverly Hills are open late or 24 hrs in New York City?

I think that what is also being said is that it doesn't matter so much where the stores are located in the u.s. because a lot of these high end stores are european and in europe you do find these stores open late at night. I think the entire 24 hour thing has more to do with the area of town, and with that being said Galleria in my opinion is not ready to embrace a 24 hour culture, I do believe downtown is definately headed in that direction and has been headed that way for a while now.

[TxDave]

I think that what is also being said is that it doesn't matter so much where the stores are located in the u.s. because a lot of these high end stores are european and in europe you do find these stores open late at night. I think the entire 24 hour thing has more to do with the area of town, and with that being said Galleria in my opinion is not ready to embrace a 24 hour culture, I do believe downtown is definately headed in that direction and has been headed that way for a while now.

I agree

I don't think "Galleria" type stores are the issue - very few people will go shopping in the middle of the night (perhaps some would, but enough to cover any store's cost to stay open?).

Instead the 24-hour city needs to focus on entertainment and services that people would need at 3am. People will not likely look for a J Crew jacket at that hour, but may want a drink, coffee, or snack/breakfast - maybe even a book. Unless the Galleria dramatically changes its merchandising mix, it will probably not appeal to the 24-hour crowd.

Downtown and its adjacent neighborhoods hold much more promise as 24-hour communities

[MiDTOWNeR]

Instead the 24-hour city needs to focus on entertainment and services that people would need at 3am.

It amazes me the lack of 24 hr grocery stores in this town.

[Houston19514]

It amazes me the lack of 24 hr grocery stores in this town.

You must not have looked very hard:

Just a few examples...

Kroger on Montrose

Kroger on W. Gray

Kroger on N Shepherd

Kroger on Buffalo Speedway

Kroger on Old Spanish Trail

and many more Krogers all over the metro area

Randalls on Holcombe

Randalls on San Felipe

and many more Randalls all over the metro area

Edited May 23, 2007 by Houston19514

[The Great Hizzy!]

It amazes me the lack of 24 hr grocery stores in this town.

Heh.

[lockmat]

This is not necessarily related to this thread, but it had the word "dense" in the title, so that's what the search brought me, and this is where i'll post my question.

Although it's still sprawled out like us, LA is much more dense than Houston, even it's "suburbs." I know part of the reason for this is land restrictions (ocean, hills). But why can't Houston be as dense as well? I mean, I'm sure it's by choice that our developers leave their developments with less density. But even LA's strip centers and walmarts and every other sprawled development they have that we do, is much more dense. They have less parking spaces, their setbacks are much closer, yet they still manage, and this in a place where undeveloped pieces of land are scarce, if not non-existent.

I'm just sick of seeing empty parking lots the size of our state. It seems they were built for the holiday season when full capacity is needed, yet the other ten months of the year, they sit half empty.

[musicman]

last time i went to LA i saw buildings placed away from the streets, giant parking lots, etc. sounds like someone has a move in their future.

[lockmat]

last time i went to LA i saw buildings placed away from the streets, giant parking lots, etc. sounds like someone has a move in their future.

lol, I'm not THAT sick of them. I'll be staying.

And I'm not saying all their buildings are next to the curb, but they don't have the surplus of parking spaces we do, and they seem to use their space much more efficiently. To some extent, they have parking problems. But there's gotta be some happy place in the middle.

[musicman]

.....and they seem to use their space much more efficiently.

think land prices. i'm sure you'll reach a conclusion.

[TheNiche]

This is not necessarily related to this thread, but it had the word "dense" in the title, so that's what the search brought me, and this is where i'll post my question.

Although it's still sprawled out like us, LA is much more dense than Houston, even it's "suburbs." I know part of the reason for this is land restrictions (ocean, hills). But why can't Houston be as dense as well? I mean, I'm sure it's by choice that our developers leave their developments with less density. But even LA's strip centers and walmarts and every other sprawled development they have that we do, is much more dense. They have less parking spaces, their setbacks are much closer, yet they still manage, and this in a place where undeveloped pieces of land are scarce, if not non-existent.

I'm just sick of seeing empty parking lots the size of our state. It seems they were built for the holiday season when full capacity is needed, yet the other ten months of the year, they sit half empty.

Density has less to do with the whim of a developer as it has to do with construction costs. The more housing units per acre, the greater the cost per unit (holding unit size, finish, and other factors constant). So, excluding extremely desirable places, like Uptown, highly-dense developments become impossible simply because they can't be competitively priced to what other developers can build and sell/lease at lower rates.

There are lots of ways that this pattern can be influenced, but it is critical to remember that a developer won't do anything at all if it isn't profitable...and cities aren't developers, even if those that run the cities would like their constituents to think so, sometimes. The best that they can do is to provide subsidy in one form or another to make targeted density feasible. But if they did something like that on a regional basis, then it'd only serve to increase housing prices and/or taxes to extreme levels, just like in California or the east coast...and for all the praise that such places receive from some quarters, there is a very good reason that Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, and Phoenix are growing so much faster than any other cities. Its all about quality of life, and we already have it; it is ours to lose. It is IMO our best economic tool supporting long-term density at levels such as will never be attained by places such as Portland or Denver, because those places have sold out their economic future for short-term density in a world where--frankly--density is a fad.

[Gary]

Density has less to do with the whim of a developer as it has to do with construction costs. The more housing units per acre, the greater the cost per unit (holding unit size, finish, and other factors constant). So, excluding extremely desirable places, like Uptown, highly-dense developments become impossible simply because they can't be competitively priced to what other developers can build and sell/lease at lower rates.

There are lots of ways that this pattern can be influenced, but it is critical to remember that a developer won't do anything at all if it isn't profitable...and cities aren't developers, even if those that run the cities would like their constituents to think so, sometimes. The best that they can do is to provide subsidy in one form or another to make targeted density feasible. But if they did something like that on a regional basis, then it'd only serve to increase housing prices and/or taxes to extreme levels, just like in California or the east coast...and for all the praise that such places receive from some quarters, there is a very good reason that Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, and Phoenix are growing so much faster than any other cities. Its all about quality of life, and we already have it; it is ours to lose. It is IMO our best economic tool supporting long-term density at levels such as will never be attained by places such as Portland or Denver, because those places have sold out their economic future for short-term density in a world where--frankly--density is a fad.

Good post Niche... On a side note, can you imagine what traffic will be like once all of the current residential projects get finished. More density may end up being a nightmare for those like me who are in the area weekly.

[lockmat]

Setbacks aside, let's talk parking spaces/lots. There's no need to build such huge parking lots that our developers do. I can see how land prices affect land use in general, but not parking lots. My thinking is this; that the developer needs to make enough spots to satisfy the tenant, so both can make money. Well, if he created a shortage of parking lots, then it wouldn't sell. It just seems that they put in just enough spots, and nothing more. Why our developers see the need for way too many spaces is confusing.

[webdude]

We should have both types to choose from. You folks say it as if one has to be exclusive of the other.

When ppl hope for density, they don't want it for the whole area, they are just hoping for a few more pockets of density, or just a few areas to get denser, so stop dramatizing it as if the whole 610 is going to get filled up, government taking over, prices going through the roof. Just want some choices of really dense areas, which is kind of lacking. It is kind of impossible to fill up the inner loop anyway.

Edited December 21, 2007 by webdude

[TheNiche]

We should have both to choose from. You folks say it as if one has to be exclusive of the other.

When ppl hope for density, they don't want it for the whole area, they are just hoping for a few more pockets of density, or just a few areas to get denser, so stop dramatizing it as if the whole 610 is going to get filled up, because that is kind of impossible for us anyway.

If the issue is that there oughta be more Sugar Land Town Squares, Woodlands Town Centers, BLVD Places, Westcreeks, High Streets, Regency Squares, West Avenues, Houston Pavilions, and the like, that'll be forthcoming. We needn't even bother discussing it because these and more will be built, with or without subsidy. In fact, as our region expands, we're going to be seeing these with ever-increasing frequency.

The important thing: don't hit the kill switch on our economic engine.

[TheNiche]

Setbacks aside, let's talk parking spaces/lots. There's no need to build such huge parking lots that our developers do. I can see how land prices affect land use in general, but not parking lots. My thinking is this; that the developer needs to make enough spots to satisfy the tenant, so both can make money. Well, if he created a shortage of parking lots, then it wouldn't sell. It just seems that they put in just enough spots, and nothing more. Why our developers see the need for way too many spaces is confusing.

I agree completely about the parking lots and have a solution. Let's abolish Christmas--at least the Victorian interpretation of it. That solves a decent part of the issue right there, because parking (like all other aspects of our transportation system) is designed with peak-period use in mind.

Some stores probably wouldn't survive the abolition of Christmas. Good riddance. Those stores whose existence is justified year-round would need somewhat less parking, and many developers would be happy to adjust because parking is a huge limiting factor to the amount of leaseable square footage of built space that can be physically or economically accomodated by any given site.

[musicman]

I agree completely about the parking lots and have a solution. Let's abolish Christmas

niche at age 8

[memebag]

I agree completely about the parking lots and have a solution. Let's abolish Christmas--at least the Victorian interpretation of it.

I used to work at a major retail transaction processing firm. We spent much of the year making sure our system could support the volume between Thanksgiving and Christmas. The rest of the year we paid for that surplus capacity with no return.

There are so many systems in our world that could be run more efficiently if it wasn't for Santa Claus.

While we're at it, I want to stagger everyone's working days so that we aren't all on the road at the same damn time.