Lower Westheimer Road Construction

[trymahjong]

When the word "repave" is used I'm always curious as to  COH mea ns? Concrete or black top?

[Nate_56]

On 3/9/2024 at 8:40 AM, trymahjong said:

When the word "repave" is used I'm always curious as to  COH mea ns? Concrete or black top?

For the price and timeframe of the project it'll most likely be asphalt paving.

[trymahjong]

That brand new  asphalt used on Waugh and. commonwealth looks like crapolla after 2 years- guess this will be more of the same.

[samagon]

On 3/11/2024 at 11:32 AM, trymahjong said:

That brand new  asphalt used on Waugh and. commonwealth looks like crapolla after 2 years- guess this will be more of the same.

no matter what they would have done, this would be the thing. the drought last year kicked a lot of streets in the butt.

last spring they scraped and redid the asphalt on MLK going into UH campus, drive it today and you'd have no idea it's been less than a year.

[freundb]

1 hour ago, samagon said:

no matter what they would have done, this would be the thing. the drought last year kicked a lot of streets in the butt.

last spring they scraped and redid the asphalt on MLK going into UH campus, drive it today and you'd have no idea it's been less than a year.

So now we need to water our streets too!?

[samagon]

On 3/14/2024 at 9:38 PM, freundb said:

So now we need to water our streets too!?

when water isn't present in the ground, it has less volume, and settles. so if there's a roadway on top of that settled ground, it too will settle. this doesn't happen uniformly.

this is very important around your house, so while it sounds silly, you may need to water your foundation.

[trymahjong]

I get the feeling there is a big question just hovering........why is COH using @#$% asphalt now and not completely renovating Westheimer road  in a manner that might last decades instead of a couple of years?

[Ross]

1 hour ago, trymahjong said:

I get the feeling there is a big question just hovering........why is COH using @#$% asphalt now and not completely renovating Westheimer road  in a manner that might last decades instead of a couple of years?

They will get to a complete renovation at some point, but that takes a lot of planning as the storm drains all get redone, along with any other infrastructure that's under the street. It's also expensive, and not all streets can be done at the same time.

[trymahjong]

8 hours ago, Ross said:

They will get to a complete renovation at some point, but that takes a lot of planning as the storm drains all get redone, along with any other infrastructure that's under the street. It's also expensive, and not all streets can be done at the same time.

Hmmmmm I watched all the planning with the first lower Westheimer renovation.......so many years passed.....so much complaining. It seems COH has a hard time with doing things the correct way first.........

[trymahjong]

Neartown brought in three "knowledgeable" people from Metro to explain what could be expected on their Westheimer (610 to Man street)upgrade. Attendees really only interested in Shepherd to Bagby. 
First  off, as far as I could tell, the Mayor demanded, his view on changes be incorporated in ; Metro complied. It is mostly, just a "redo" of street surfaces around ( scraped down then spread)18" deep- this might be fine but if unearth concrete is cracked, this won't work so well- double down that it might not work at all if underlying brick street is uncovered from Montrose to Bagby. New curbs cut in driveways- commercial driveways 8"----private driveways 6". LED lights within bus shelters, but no "green" nor artificial shade for bus stops without shelters.

Buses on route 82 will remain same width (wider than current lane width) and same weight ( the weight that has torn up that part of lower Westheimer in first place)

A little something interesting-- the original research and plan of the lower Westheimer approvements, weren't viewed or reviewed by Metro--- just the Mayor saying "Do this now!"

Yes there will be sidewalks tweaks, more handicapped cuts at curbs and distance between bus stops will be increased slightly so improve "speed" that is currently around 18 miles per hour. There was no mention of moving current bus stops that are located just before an intersection to beyond the intersection; that would allow traffic to right turn behind buses so traffic flows more efficiently.

 Don't really have a crystal ball, but think after this " lick and a promise" is completed" any chance at meaningful improvements for lower Westheimer will be gone forever. 
 

sigh

 

 

[j_cuevas713]

On 4/24/2024 at 8:59 AM, trymahjong said:

Neartown brought in three "knowledgeable" people from Metro to explain what could be expected on their Westheimer (610 to Man street)upgrade. Attendees really only interested in Shepherd to Bagby. 
First  off, as far as I could tell, the Mayor demanded, his view on changes be incorporated in ; Metro complied. It is mostly, just a "redo" of street surfaces around ( scraped down then spread)18" deep- this might be fine but if unearth concrete is cracked, this won't work so well- double down that it might not work at all if underlying brick street is uncovered from Montrose to Bagby. New curbs cut in driveways- commercial driveways 8"----private driveways 6". LED lights within bus shelters, but no "green" nor artificial shade for bus stops without shelters.

Buses on route 82 will remain same width (wider than current lane width) and same weight ( the weight that has torn up that part of lower Westheimer in first place)

A little something interesting-- the original research and plan of the lower Westheimer approvements, weren't viewed or reviewed by Metro--- just the Mayor saying "Do this now!"

Yes there will be sidewalks tweaks, more handicapped cuts at curbs and distance between bus stops will be increased slightly so improve "speed" that is currently around 18 miles per hour. There was no mention of moving current bus stops that are located just before an intersection to beyond the intersection; that would allow traffic to right turn behind buses so traffic flows more efficiently.

 Don't really have a crystal ball, but think after this " lick and a promise" is completed" any chance at meaningful improvements for lower Westheimer will be gone forever. 
 

sigh

 

 

Recall Whitmire

[Some one]

5 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Recall Whitmire

Agreed, but has there been any organized effort to start the recall petition? I know we have to wait 8 months after he gets elected, but it might be better to start organizing now.

[j_cuevas713]

14 minutes ago, Some one said:

Agreed, but has there been any organized effort to start the recall petition? I know we have to wait 8 months after he gets elected, but it might be better to start organizing now.

Yes. I'll send you the WhatsApp group chat

[JLWM8609]

Adding a lane to right size a road? No problem. 

Taking away a lane to right size a road?

[trymahjong]

It’s more about returning Lower Westheimer to what is was in the past— three lanes- one in each direction- then a turn lane.

Without major reconstruction of widening Westheimer what can be done when the bus width is literally wider than the lane width?

[editor]

On 5/7/2024 at 12:38 PM, trymahjong said:

It’s more about returning Lower Westheimer to what is was in the past— three lanes- one in each direction- then a turn lane.

Without major reconstruction of widening Westheimer what can be done when the bus width is literally wider than the lane width?

That turning lane should be shared with a single-car trolley, or some other tracked conveyance.  There are few places in Houston more perfect for it.

[astrohip]

The signs have gone up along Westheimer, from the Loop in. 

[trymahjong]

11 hours ago, editor said:

That turning lane should be shared with a single-car trolley, or some other tracked conveyance.  There are few places in Houston more perfect for it.

18-19 years ago when the metro train was first talked about- a bunch of us went and pitched the idea of a raised metro line—- on Westheimer—oh my— the blowback we received.

 

i’m trying so hard to be a voice in the wilderness about - all types of alternative to try and limit our car dependence……..but still keep traffic manageable. Somehow nothing ever gets heard.

[editor]

On 5/13/2024 at 8:41 PM, trymahjong said:

18-19 years ago when the metro train was first talked about- a bunch of us went and pitched the idea of a raised metro line—- on Westheimer—oh my— the blowback we received.

 

i’m trying so hard to be a voice in the wilderness about - all types of alternative to try and limit our car dependence……..but still keep traffic manageable. Somehow nothing ever gets heard.

I'm not sure elevated is the way to go on Westheimer, but a train of some sort would be perfectly suited to the area.  

In an ideal world, it would be underground, but then you get shouted down by thousands of people who make their money from burning dinosaurs; or think that subways are somehow magic fountains that spew crime; or (a HAIF favorite) believe that you can't build tunnels in Houston, even though we've had a tunnel underneath the ship channel for 75 years.

[004n063]

On 5/16/2024 at 8:54 AM, editor said:

I'm not sure elevated is the way to go on Westheimer, but a train of some sort would be perfectly suited to the area.  

In an ideal world, it would be underground, but then you get shouted down by thousands of people who make their money from burning dinosaurs; or think that subways are somehow magic fountains that spew crime; or (a HAIF favorite) believe that you can't build tunnels in Houston, even though we've had a tunnel underneath the ship channel for 75 years.

If finances and boneheaded local opposition were no object, I'd advocate for Red Line-style street-level tracks in barriered ROW from Chimney Rock to UofH, as well as tram tracks from Elgin to Commerce along Louisiana/Milam, and elevated guideway from Chimney Rock to HW6.

 

Then I'd run an express tram-train from HW6 to Commerce on 15/30 headways and the local tram from Chimney Rock to UofH on 10/20 headways, so that along the main corridor you'd have an effective ~6/15 headway. 

And I'd do something similar with a Purple line extension up Washington and Shepherd, with local tram on Washington and express tram-train on Shepherd. And I'd mirror that with the Green line along Bagby/Dallas/Shepherd. And then eventually I'd connect the two tram/train lines on Shepherd so that both had straightline and downtown-bound branches, thus giving the primary corridors high local frequencies.

And I'd still keep the original University Line BRT exactly as it's currently planned.

I have hundreds of dollars to spend on these projects, so I say we greenlight em all.

[Some one]

I said it in another post, but I'll just post it here too

  

On 2/13/2024 at 11:31 AM, Some one said:

In my ideal world, I'd convert Westheimer into a multimodal corridor west of 610. Take the outer two lanes and convert them to bus and bike lanes. East of 610 would be a little more challenging but this is under the assumption that the Westheimer road diet already happened. Then I'd have an elevated rail running on Westheimer between West Oak and 610. Then it transitions to a subway east of 610, with two branches: One to downtown following the 82 and one to UH/Eastwood Transit Center following Elgin/Lockwood (interlining with the University BRT). I'd maybe even extend it south from West Oak and have it connect to the (hypothetical) Westpark Commuter Rail, running from Fulshear to Uptown TC, at Mission Bend P&R.

It's fun to play make-believe sometimes. 😁

Or a rail line down Hardy that connects to the IAH BRT near Greenspoint and a rail line from Burnett TC down Highway 3 to Galveston, with the Purple/Green Line being extended from Hobby Airport (Future terminus) to SH 3 via Airport/College in South Houston (or even beyond that to Pasadena/La Porte).

Adding onto your delusional optimism.

I think it's less that TXDOT isn't open to the idea of rail/high-capacity transit on Westheimer, and more so that they're not open to any transit that reduces the amount of lanes on Westheimer.

To add onto that, I'd extend the Green and Purple Line up Houston Ave (suck it Trinity Downtown) then it turns left on Washington Ave, runs through Washington Ave (and Westcott St) and Old Katy Road to the NWTC. From there it'd turn right on Post Oak and follow the (future?) Uptown/Inner Katy BRT to the Northwest Mall (assuming the high-speed rail even gets built). I'd also have it connect to the (imaginary) 290 commuter rail.

I'd also have a rail or BRT down Highway 6 between Westpark Tollway and the Energy Corridor (and maybe extend it further north and south).

Edited May 20 by Some one

[j.33]

1 hour ago, Some one said:

To add onto that, I'd extend the Green and Purple Line up Houston Ave (suck it Trinity Downtown) then it turns left on Washington Ave, runs through Washington Ave (and Westcott St) and Old Katy Road to the NWTC.

HGAC is actively doing engagement for Washington Avenue, if you havent already, leave a pin on the map about your suggestion at Houston Ave/Washington Ave intersection :)

What works about this corridor and what doesn’t? | Washington Avenue Corridor Study (WACS) | Engage HGAC (h-gac.com)

[Some one]

9 minutes ago, j.33 said:

HGAC is actively doing engagement for Washington Avenue, if you havent already, leave a pin on the map about your suggestion at Houston Ave/Washington Ave intersection :)

What works about this corridor and what doesn’t? | Washington Avenue Corridor Study (WACS) | Engage HGAC (h-gac.com)

Done, thanks for letting me know.

[editor]

14 hours ago, Some one said:

I said it in another post, but I'll just post it here too

  

To add onto that, I'd extend the Green and Purple Line up Houston Ave (suck it Trinity Downtown) then it turns left on Washington Ave, runs through Washington Ave (and Westcott St) and Old Katy Road to the NWTC. From there it'd turn right on Post Oak and follow the (future?) Uptown/Inner Katy BRT to the Northwest Mall (assuming the high-speed rail even gets built). I'd also have it connect to the (imaginary) 290 commuter rail.

I'd also have a rail or BRT down Highway 6 between Westpark Tollway and the Energy Corridor (and maybe extend it further north and south).

My suggestion is that one line goes down Washington, and one goes up Houston.  

[004n063]

7 hours ago, editor said:

My suggestion is that one line goes down Washington, and one goes up Houston.  

If a Houston line went up N.Main and Airline, I could see it. But even so, I'm not sure the demand is ever going to be there. Washington corridor has lots of residential density plus lots of businesses plus a logical Memorial Park terminus. It just makes too much sense. Houston Ave feels more fantasy to me. I can think of a bunch of routes I'd do before Houston Ave.

[Ross]

On 5/16/2024 at 8:54 AM, editor said:

I'm not sure elevated is the way to go on Westheimer, but a train of some sort would be perfectly suited to the area.  

In an ideal world, it would be underground, but then you get shouted down by thousands of people who make their money from burning dinosaurs; or think that subways are somehow magic fountains that spew crime; or (a HAIF favorite) believe that you can't build tunnels in Houston, even though we've had a tunnel underneath the ship channel for 75 years.

There is no engineering reason tunnels would not work, but there are a few other issues. A practical one is what type of tunnel to build. If you build cut and cover, you will have Westheimer unusable for a couple of years, destroying every business along the way, especially on lower Westheimer where the right of way is far narrower. Bored tunnels would not affect the surface, but would require more negotiation with property owners due to curve radii and such.

There are right of way issues as well, as any tunnel is going to infringe on the underground rights of property owners, all of whom are going to claim that the damage to their surface estate is worth $30 million per foot of tunnel.

The last issue I'll raise is that no one knows what lurks below the surface. Not all wells, water or oil, are documented. Running into a well can ruin the tunnel builder's day.

21 hours ago, Some one said:

I said it in another post, but I'll just post it here too

  

To add onto that, I'd extend the Green and Purple Line up Houston Ave (suck it Trinity Downtown) then it turns left on Washington Ave, runs through Washington Ave (and Westcott St) and Old Katy Road to the NWTC. From there it'd turn right on Post Oak and follow the (future?) Uptown/Inner Katy BRT to the Northwest Mall (assuming the high-speed rail even gets built). I'd also have it connect to the (imaginary) 290 commuter rail.

I'd also have a rail or BRT down Highway 6 between Westpark Tollway and the Energy Corridor (and maybe extend it further north and south).

I would run rail on Center. Washington is too useful as a vehicle street, and is the only East/West thoroughfare between I-10 and Memorial.

[BeerNut]

Center isn't as wide as Washington so there would be more eminent domain issues there.  The area along Washington is dense by Houston standards.  Wasn't the complaint about the purple and green line about how they built in such low density area?

[004n063]

23 hours ago, Ross said:

Washington is too useful as a vehicle street, and is the only East/West thoroughfare between I-10 and Memorial.

I would counter that Washington has too much productivity potential as a pedestrian-friendly and transit-friendly street to be degraded by private vehicle prioritization.

Edited May 21 by 004n063

[Ross]

35 minutes ago, 004n063 said:

I would counter that Washington has too much productivity potential as a pedestrian-friendly and transit-friendly street to be degraded by private vehicle prioritization.

What potential? All of the bars and such will disappear, just like they did on Richmond and other strips in Houston. What is your suggestion for people who need to drive along Washington to get to doctor's offices and living spaces? I could not care less about the people going to the bars, there are far better things to do with your time than drink.

[004n063]

12 hours ago, Ross said:

What potential? All of the bars and such will disappear, just like they did on Richmond and other strips in Houston. What is your suggestion for people who need to drive along Washington to get to doctor's offices and living spaces? I could not care less about the people going to the bars, there are far better things to do with your time than drink.

Bars and restaurants are part of it, but also housing, groceries, doctors' offices, etc.

The per-acre tax revenue could be considerably higher than it is, and higher-order, fixed transit would accelerate that.

Drivers have, as you mentioned, both I-10 and Memorial if they're trying to get to other places east/west. I am not suggesting the street be fully pedestrianized or off-limits to drivers, just that it no longer be a high-speed option.