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[musicman]

What do you mean the newer residents think most things are sketchy now?

they complain about the westheimer arts festival and the things it brings into the hood. people urinating, loitering, etc. montrose is becoming more family oriented which is what is behind the complaints

[Vertigo58]

To go back even further, my big sis said that in the late 60's this same area already was known for it's flambouyant hairdressers and indiscreet bars which was quite shocking for southern Houston's reputation. She said they could make the best beehive hairdoes around. It has also attracted the runaway teen scene since forever. They still can be seen all around Montrose, getting picked up for a good time and heading for their latest shots of methadone at nearby Covenant House, etc.

There will need to be quite a bit of cleaning up before the area makes a real comeback. Any ideas? HPD is up to their necks in trying to curb the problems of lower Mantrose as they used to call it.

Edited August 14, 2007 by Vertigo58

[Jax]

There are often some homeless looking people hanging around the corner of Montrose and Westheimer, but I thought we were talking about the Dunlavy and Westheimer area (at least I was) with Cafe Brazil and Empire Cafe and the antique shops. That area seems less sketchy to me, plus there are more people walking around over there, at least on a weekend morning/afternoon when I go for breakfast.

I would agree that there are people "people urinating, loitering, etc" on Montrose and Wesheimer, but not so much Dunlavy and Westheimer, which is just under a mile away.

[musicman]

There are often some homeless looking people hanging around the corner of Montrose and Westheimer, but I thought we were talking about the Dunlavy and Westheimer area (at least I was) with Cafe Brazil and Empire Cafe and the antique shops. That area seems less sketchy to me, plus there are more people walking around over there, at least on a weekend morning/afternoon when I go for breakfast.

I would agree that there are people "people urinating, loitering, etc" on Montrose and Wesheimer, but not so much Dunlavy and Westheimer, which is just under a mile away.

they are there too.....we were in the area sat afternoon at the guild and well it surprised my mom that there was a homeless person inside the store.

[OkieEric]

they are there too.....we were in the area sat afternoon at the guild and well it surprised my mom that there was a homeless person inside the store.

Well, I don't think the homeless problem along that particular stretch is that much worse than anywhere else in Houston, and definitely isn't as bad as Montrose/Westheimer. I walk along that area fairly frequently and never have a problem - at least on the weekends

That said, I swear I saw some homeless dude up on the 2nd floor of that new structure the other day

[musicman]

That said, I swear I saw some homeless dude up on the 2nd floor of that new structure the other day

and you thought that was a new fountain installation.

[Jax]

I think that's why they recently added a "no trespassing" sign. I guess people have been hanging out in there or something.

I can definitely say that I have never been asked for money by a homeless dude near Westheimer and Dunlavy - but I have at the corner of Montrose.

[sevfiv]

homeless walk all up and down westheimer - i have seen/been approached leaving brasil and agora

i definitely saw more concentration when i worked near the montrose/westheimer intersection, though (no, not that kind of work )

[jgriff]

I have a friend who lives in the townhomes behind numbers. I'm down there nearly every weekend. Beleive me, it is a very sketchy area. I've looked out the window of the townhouse and counted a dozen prostitues within view at once. Some of them used to use a hearse to do their "business". You're lucky if you can walk 2 blocks without being asked for spare change.

[Jax]

I believe that, but It's still not the area around Dunlavy.

[OkieEric]

I have a friend who lives in the townhomes behind numbers. I'm down there nearly every weekend. Beleive me, it is a very sketchy area. I've looked out the window of the townhouse and counted a dozen prostitues within view at once. Some of them used to use a hearse to do their "business". You're lucky if you can walk 2 blocks without being asked for spare change.

Behind numbers? LOL, there was no debate on whether THAT area was sketchy, particularly with that 24 hr video place j/k. I have to say, though, it's still a fun area - I've got a friend who is trying to convince me to make my first trip to numbers, though so far we haven't quite made it. I used to hit up La Strada sometimes on Sundays, but the crowd is a little too much for me these days... Honestly, I've never seen any prostitutes, but I don't tend to walk around that area after dark

[musicman]

I believe that, but It's still not the area around Dunlavy.

to quote sevfiv "homeless walk all up and down westheimer - i have seen/been approached leaving brasil and agora" brazil is about as dunlavy as you can get.

[Jax]

I know, I was talking about the post regarding the alley behind "Numbers", I didn't want people to get confused with that an the original discussion about the Dunlavy area.

Yeah I know he said that people have been approached by homeless near Brasil and Agora (not me though), but my point was that area isn't too bad compared to the alley behind Numbers where prostitutes operate out of a hearse.

[Vertigo58]

When anyone mentions lower Westheimer, all of this area is considered lower Westheimer to be clear.

Go by Numbers on a Friday Evening about 8:30 like next to that porno theater and you will see some cute little dishes but they are not she's, but he's. This becomes the French Quarter with quite a few RuPaul wannabe's. You can't tell if they are cops doing a sting operation or what, but some are quite ugly. A dude would have to have been on a deserted island for the last 20 years to even consider getting down and funky with these things. Oh well to each his own.

In any case this is the lower Westheimer culture, embrace it right?

[Jax]

True, you're right it's all "lower Westheimer", I guess I was just focusing on that one area of it for some reason. I think because I started discussing the new construction near Dunlavy, and I wanted to make a point about how that particular part of Westheimer is not too sketchy.. But yeah, the topic is actually lower Westheimer, and yeah lower Westhiemer does have it's sketchy parts! Sounds pretty nasty over there!

I saw some new townhomes (I think) going up around Westheimer and Montrose this spring, behind the Taco Cabana. I'm not sure if they are finished yet, but that must be an interesting place to live.

[jgriff]

My wife and I attempted to go to La Strada Sunday night but found out they close at 6:00pm on Sunday. So we walk over to Indika and it's closed to. Then we decided to try the Italian place next to Indika and it's a 45 minute wait. So much for lower Westheimer on a Sunday night. We just gave up and went to Chuy's. I guess there's not much of an after-church crowd in that area.

[musicman]

I guess there's not much of an after-church crowd in that area.

they're probably dancing, smoking, and intoxicated as TJ said.

[Jax]

Surprisingly, Midtown on a sunday night was pretty happening compared to Westheimer. Especially the area around Post Midtown Square. I didn't expect much to be open when I went for a coffee 2 Sundays ago, but everything was open and busy too.

[musicman]

Surprisingly, Midtown on a sunday night was pretty happening compared to Westheimer.

why is this surprising? lower westheimer is not the happening place it once was. it hasn't been for quite a while.

[Jax]

It's surprising that any place is happening on a Sunday night. At least where I come from, that's the least likely night for people to go out and party.

[musicman]

It's surprising that any place is happening on a Sunday night. At least where I come from, that's the least likely night for people to go out and party.

there are happening places all over houston, every day and night of the week.

[Jax]

We're not quite a "city that never sleeps", but I guess more so than where I come from.

[Vertigo58]

To Wong Foo, thanks for everything!

Edited August 16, 2007 by Vertigo58

[jgriff]

I just don't usually find restaraunts closed on Sunday nights in Houston. I live in the Memorial Villages area, they all seem to be open out there. Of course they are all filled with the after church crowd.

We did drive through the Bagby/West Gray area and there seemed to be a lot of activity there. To me that is the "walkable retail" area of Houston.

[capnmcbarnacle]

I just don't usually find restaraunts closed on Sunday nights in Houston. I live in the Memorial Villages area, they all seem to be open out there. Of course they are all filled with the after church crowd.

We did drive through the Bagby/West Gray area and there seemed to be a lot of activity there. To me that is the "walkable retail" area of Houston.

One of the cool things about Montrose is that there are any number of distinct parts to it, all within a mile or two of each other. Dunlavy/Westheimer has a different vibe from Montrose/Westheimer which feels different from Pacific/Fairview. Over the years I've lived in different places in the neighborhood and they all have their own thing going on. I like the fact there is still some sketchiness going on -- but the neighborhood feels a lot more tame than it did 15 years ago. Of course, I was 15 years younger then too.

I haven't been to LaStrada for Sunday brunch since it burned down, but there was a blip in time (mid to late 90's?) where that was about the most fun thing in the world. Before they started seating people in the parking the lot, before they had a seating at 11 and another at 2, before it filled up with tables of secretaries with goofy party favors for someone's birthday...I remember going and people from the neighborhood were just hanging out having a lively brunch and then, around 1:30 or so, everyone was so collectively drunk (or high) that spontaneous dancing (on the floor or tables) just began to happen. I saw things going on in that place that I still have a hard time believing. As time wore on, it became more about the scene and became kind of contrived, IMHO, but I always loved that feeling of having a long brunch and then suddenly realizing that all hell was beggining to break looose around you. And I beleive LaStrada still closed up around 3 back then, so word would get out where everyone was going afterward. I once had a friend here from New York and we ended up in some club on Sunday afternoon and it was a complete Bacchanalian. He was duly impressed. And when I went back to that same club on a Sunday a few weeks later, it was empty. Like Brigadoon. The party had moved somewhere else. Good times indeed.

Hearing some of you talk about the old street festival reminded me just how fun this neighborhood was, and maybe still is. But there was a real sense of camaraderie among people that lived here and things that once had the feel of a really cool neighborhood block party or a lunch with your neighbors became overrun with people from the outside. That's kind of inevitable when you are doing something that people want to be part of.

I hope the hood doesn't get too homogonized, but it just might. Economics will play the central role in who lives here and what it will be like. The fourplex I used to live in with a bunch of other artist/students/potheads recently was razed in favor of a $1.2 milllion spec home. I hate to make assumptions, but I doubt those new residents are going to find joy in walking among reptile-toting weirdos along Westheimer and sharing warm cans of Busch. Oh well. I do take some encouragement that people of my vintage who moved in young tend to be staying where they are to live their lives and raise families. That's alwasy a good thing to keep some continuity and remain in the fabric of the neighborhood. Look, Montrose is a special place in this city and I hope it will continue to be someplace that is real, and not just a bad imitation of its former self. I guess that's why the thought of hookers turning tricks in a hearse behind Numbers makes me smile and feel like Montrose is still doing fine.

[Vertigo58]

capn barnacle, that was a great addition and very on target.

I once lived in Venice, Ca and most of it was little bungalows and courtyards built in 1920's when LA was booming. Last 15 years many are being demolished and the area has become quite yuppified, guess it was bound to happen. I see lower Westheimer going through a very similar trend. I think it will be just fine.

[OkieEric]

I guess that's why the thought of hookers turning tricks in a hearse behind Numbers makes me smile and feel like Montrose is still doing fine.

Great post, capn...

[Retama]

lower westheimer is not the happening place it once was. it hasn't been for quite a while.

I'll say. Back in the late 1970s/early 1980s Halloween night on lower Westheimer was like another planet!

[GovernorAggie]

Is it just me, or do the Chronicle forums REALLY stink? I thought people on HAIF were skeptical, but wow, those folks take it to a whole new level. Every news item can be traced back to immigration, Metro, government in general, and Mayor White. Who knew that all of Houston's problems led back to 4 main issues?

[MidtownCoog]

The entire concept of letting people post story comments to Chron.com online is very "small town".