Downtown Major Grocer

[kylejack]

I saw 2 people working in there again this morning. Hopefully its moving along a little. It would be so convenient for me.

[frheard]

I have a hard time imagining where a grocery store of that size would go in downtown. Clearly there's plenty of empty parking lots, but I'm sure they're asking a small fortune for those plots. East End would be great because there are so many vacant warehouses begging to be torn down.

I posted a couple of pics yesterday of a warehouse being torn down in East End. Could be a good spot for a grocery. (I vote for Trader Joes) It's right on Polk St.

Check it out HERE

The photos aren't great but you get the idea. Today, there is even more destruction!!

[totheskies]

I just submitted this to the Central Market website after finding out that they are the clear winner of the survey here...

Time for another Houston Store!!!!

Most distinguished members of the Central Market team.

I am writing to you to first say that I am a regular Central Market shopper, and that I profoundly enjoy your Houston store. The service is always amicable, and the food always fresh and delicious. However I do have a concern. Central Market only has one location in the Houston area, but I must assure you that we are ready for another one. I recently participated in a survey of Houstonianians on Houston Architecture website which asked residents to rank which grocery store they would prefer to see in or near downtown Houston. The answer came back as Central Market by a landslide (you can see the poll here http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif/index.php?showtopic=17921&st=60) beating out other popular grocery chains like Whole Foods Market and Trader Joe's by almost 2-to-1!!! That means that Houston loves you and wants another central Houston location.

The survey was asking specifically about downtown, and of course downtown land acquisition can be very expensive. But if you do choose to consider this venture, I highly recommend researching the Eas End area of Houston. It is right next to downtown, and quickly becoming a haven neighborhood for Houston's young professionals like myself. As a former warehouse district, there are plenty of convertible spaces and empty lots in the East End that are screaming to be developed, and could be purchased/leased at a rock bottom price (here's a link to EaDo-- the East Downtown Houston website http://www.eadohouston.com/).

Please consider central Houston for your next store location. The results of the survey are clear--- we want you here!!!!!

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Does anyone else want to post something similar? Maybe we can get the company interested in a downtown location. Here's the link if you'd like to post... http://www.centralmarket.com/Company/Talk-To-Us.aspx

Dang it... I forgot to mention how Discovery Green has been a radical downtown success and is helping to bring more residents and potential shoppers to the area.

[august948]

I just submitted this to the Central Market website after finding out that they are the clear winner of the survey here...

Time for another Houston Store!!!!

Most distinguished members of the Central Market team.

I am writing to you to first say that I am a regular Central Market shopper, and that I profoundly enjoy your Houston store. The service is always amicable, and the food always fresh and delicious. However I do have a concern. Central Market only has one location in the Houston area, but I must assure you that we are ready for another one. I recently participated in a survey of Houstonianians on Houston Architecture website which asked residents to rank which grocery store they would prefer to see in or near downtown Houston. The answer came back as Central Market by a landslide (you can see the poll here http://www.houstonar...ic=17921&st=60) beating out other popular grocery chains like Whole Foods Market and Trader Joe's by almost 2-to-1!!! That means that Houston loves you and wants another central Houston location.

The survey was asking specifically about downtown, and of course downtown land acquisition can be very expensive. But if you do choose to consider this venture, I highly recommend researching the Eas End area of Houston. It is right next to downtown, and quickly becoming a haven neighborhood for Houston's young professionals like myself. As a former warehouse district, there are plenty of convertible spaces and empty lots in the East End that are screaming to be developed, and could be purchased/leased at a rock bottom price (here's a link to EaDo-- the East Downtown Houston website http://www.eadohouston.com/).

Please consider central Houston for your next store location. The results of the survey are clear--- we want you here!!!!!

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Does anyone else want to post something similar? Maybe we can get the company interested in a downtown location. Here's the link if you'd like to post... http://www.centralma...Talk-To-Us.aspx

Dang it... I forgot to mention how Discovery Green has been a radical downtown success and is helping to bring more residents and potential shoppers to the area.

Don't hold your breath. There are no Central Markets in downtown DFW or Austin where HEB has multiple CM stores. I not sure they have any regular stores in a downtown location either. Safeway, the parent of Randall's, does have downtown locations in several west coast cities. In those cases they occupy the bottom floor of a high-rise building. Trader Joes is mostly east and west coast and is unlikely make their first Texas entry in a highly competitive market like Houston. Walmart doesn't really do urban as far as I know and I think they are intending to convert their neighborhood markets into Hispanic-oriented food stores in Houston. I highly doubt any grocery store chain is going to do it's first urban experiment in Houston, so your best bet is either Randall's or maybe Kroger, if Kroger has done urban somewhere else already.

[kylejack]

Don't hold your breath. There are no Central Markets in downtown DFW or Austin where HEB has multiple CM stores. I not sure they have any regular stores in a downtown location either. Safeway, the parent of Randall's, does have downtown locations in several west coast cities. In those cases they occupy the bottom floor of a high-rise building. Trader Joes is mostly east and west coast and is unlikely make their first Texas entry in a highly competitive market like Houston. Walmart doesn't really do urban as far as I know and I think they are intending to convert their neighborhood markets into Hispanic-oriented food stores in Houston. I highly doubt any grocery store chain is going to do it's first urban experiment in Houston, so your best bet is either Randall's or maybe Kroger, if Kroger has done urban somewhere else already.

Well Midtown Randall's is only a few blocks off downtown.

[crunchtastic]

http://www.eadohouston.com/).

Please consider central Houston for your next store location. The results of the survey are clear--- we want you here!!!!!

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Does anyone else want to post something similar? Maybe we can get the company interested in a downtown location. Here's the link if you'd like to post... http://www.centralmarket.com/Company/Talk-To-Us.aspx

Dang it... I forgot to mention how Discovery Green has been a radical downtown success and is helping to bring more residents and potential shoppers to the area.

Does anyone know the results of the survey done by the Downtown Management District?

A shiny new store downtown would be fine, but when it comes to the near east end I'd rather see more of an effort made to lobby Kroger for a expansion and remodel of the Polk store. They have a huge parking lot on an easily accessible corner, and the adjoining old CVS space to move into, as opposed to starting from scratch a few blocks away in Ea-Dooooo.

[jfre81]

How long will the Midtown Sears hang in there? A Super Target in that spot would be great, and right on the rail from downtown.

Give Randalls a little competition, they either make their prices competitive or they fold up the tent. Then maybe HEB (Central Market?) goes there. That would be awesome.

[kylejack]

How long will the Midtown Sears hang in there? A Super Target in that spot would be great, and right on the rail from downtown.

Give Randalls a little competition, they either make their prices competitive or they fold up the tent. Then maybe HEB (Central Market?) goes there. That would be awesome.

A Super Target fitting in the Sears spot? Surely you jest.

[samagon]

A Super Target fitting in the Sears spot? Surely you jest.

ha, right, they would need that 'super block' that they are currently building the apartments on near travis/mcgowen, of course this would be for just the parking lot, they'd still have to take over the Cadillac dealership for the retail space, maybe even need to shut down reef and take over that building as well...

[AtticaFlinch]

ha, right, they would need that 'super block' that they are currently building the apartments on near travis/mcgowen, of course this would be for just the parking lot, they'd still have to take over the Cadillac dealership for the retail space, maybe even need to shut down reef and take over that building as well...

If that Cadillac dealership closes its doors, there'd be too much environmental subrogation necessary for any business to cost-effectively build there until after Midtown's other cheaper lots completely fill up. Maybe they could build the Target in Binz. Aren't those lots cheaper anyhow?

[kylejack]

Byrd's wins downtown's great grocer race, opening at the end of this month.

Downtown resident and professional caterer Rusty Powers is bringing a new grocery store to downtown Houston, a market that has so far proven hit-and-miss for grocery retailers.

Backed by some unnamed investors, Powers will open Byrd’s Market & Cafe by the end of October at 420 Main St. at Prairie, making it the only grocer in the Downtown District. A small grocer called Urban Market operated for a short time under the nearby Post Rice Lofts in the late 1990s, but was not able to hang on for the long haul.

Angie Bertinot, director of marketing and communications for the Houston Downtown Management District’s Retail Development Program, points out that Urban Market didn’t focus on grocery essentials, but rather upscale items.

Byrd’s will feature a grocery section designed for residents to do fill-in shopping and pick up everything from toilet paper to dog food to eggs, bread, pasta, flour, sugar and a small section of basic toiletries. The market — which will open in a site that was formerly home to Byrd’s Department Store and has been vacant for nearly 10 years — will also feature a fresh produce section which Powers plans to use in the restaurant portion of the venture and will also sell to other nearby restaurants.

http://houston.bizjo.../12/story5.html

Sign permit at http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/historic_pres/HAHC_20090819/Il_420_Main_Alteration_Storefront.pdf if you want to see a rendering of what the signage is expected to look like.

[LS27]

With all this residential development going on downtown, it leaves me wondering if the retail will follow shortly after? Particularly grocery stores. To my knowledge, the closest thing to a full sized grocery store in downtown is Phoenicia. Randalls midtown is more or less close as well.

 

When do you think a major grocer will consider moving into downtown?

 

Who do you think will be the first one to make a move?

 

Will it be as part of a mixed use development? Ground level of some tower? or stand alone?

 

Right in downtown? or immediate vicinity, such as a 2nd midtown store, Eado or the near East End?

[cloud713]

Isn't there a segment of the Market Square Tower that they want to put a grocer in? It wouldn't be very big though..

[UtterlyUrban]

I believe that if a couple more of the proposed resi developments occur in the "south downtown" area near sky house and houston house, then a whole foods will be built. Personally, I don't think that it will ever be the uber huge size.

Large store are for driving to, loading up 500 bags of chow for the family of 5, including Spiffy the wonder dog, and driving back home to your McMansion. I think that we will see a grocer in a "large space" (but well short of a suburban space) within 2 years.

Separately, I continually am surprised when folks say Pheonica is not a "full" grocer. Two floors of stuff. Fresh, frozen, refrigerated, liquid, solid, ground or whole, packaged or loose for just about everything that is turf, and surf. The selections are certainly less (and tend to have a lot of ethnic stuff-- great if you are looking for something from "home") but, one could feed oneself at Pheonicia for essentially ever without a problem and without depravation.

[UtterlyUrban]

Isn't there a segment of the Market Square Tower that they want to put a grocer in? It wouldn't be very big though..

Yes. And it is this "little" grocers that actually exist around the world that feed entire cities. Look at NYC... manahatten.....while national chain grocers exist I would be willing to bet that MOST folks there go to their neighborhood (I.e. "Small") grocer to buy their food.

[Avossos]

I think HEB is the first to come downtown... In terms of major. They seem like they take risks.

 

And I hope they do because I love HEB.

[mollusk]

I think HEB is the first to come downtown... In terms of major. They seem like they take risks.

 

And I hope they do because I love HEB.

 

Hmmmm... HEB Urban Market - sorta like a smaller Central Market, but with household goods like paper products, etc.  

 

As it is, Phonecia has bit off a lot of what I used to go to CM for.

[txn4art]

Oh, please...no "boutique" grocers, "Aldi" types or small NYC-style neighborhood markets for downtown, EADO or the near East End!

 

What's needed is a major, full-size supermarket for the thousands of central and east side Innerloopers who actually cook meals, entertain at home, have pets, clean house, use paper goods. Chic specialty grocers like Phonecia and Whole Foods are wonderful places and fun to shop, but they're no substitute for an HEB or a Kroger Signature store.

[UtterlyUrban]

Oh, please...no "boutique" grocers, "Aldi" types or small NYC-style neighborhood markets for downtown, EADO or the near East End!

What's needed is a major, full-size supermarket for the thousands of central and east side Innerloopers who actually cook meals, entertain at home, have pets, clean house, use paper goods. Chic specialty grocers like Phonecia and Whole Foods are wonderful places and fun to shop, but they're no substitute for an HEB or a Kroger Signature store.

Are you suggesting that folks who live in say, NYC, don't do all those things? Why does a dense downtown core in houston need a sprawling "suburban" style grocery when many other cities around the globe manage just fine with smaller stores?

Help me understand your point. Help me understand why Houston is different.

[txn4art]

UtterlyUrban, your questions require more extensive answers than I have time for on this forum.They would include hard facts and personal observations on urban design, anthropology, Houston history, food preparation and local customs.

[UtterlyUrban]

UtterlyUrban, your questions require more extensive answers than I have time for on this forum.They would include hard facts and personal observations on urban design, anthropology, Houston history, food preparation and local customs.

Wow. It would be great to understand all that. I can see why it is too complex to write here. The anthropology in houston is different than NYC? Food preparation is different here than NYC? Interesting.

Give me a briefing though. Start with the hard facts you mention. I really don't know what could be different and i would like to educate myself on this.

[august948]

Are you suggesting that folks who live in say, NYC, don't do all those things? Why does a dense downtown core in houston need a sprawling "suburban" style grocery when many other cities around the globe manage just fine with smaller stores?

Help me understand your point. Help me understand why Houston is different.

 

Folks in NYC are used to the higher prices and inconveniences associated with having to shop at the corner grocer(s).  If you are coming here from a city like that or are a hard-core urbanista then you might be willing to make the sacrifices.  But if you are used to lower prices and the convenience of having everything you need at one stop, like most people are in Houston, then you'll balk at doing it that way.  That's why Houston needs, and eventually will get, major grocers in or near downtown, providing the population base is there.

 

I've also heard that NYC has policies in place that discourage large grocers from moving in.  Not sure if that's accurate or not.  Another big thing in NYC is grocery delivery which, frankly, I'd be inclined to use as my first option if I lived there.

 

 

[IronTiger]

If a big grocery store like HEB opened, we'd have complaints like a big chain being so close to downtown, or someone complaining that it would be too low-rise, and so forth.

[Texasota]

It would work if it were similar to the Randalls in Midtown, though even that has more surface parking than would be ideal.

 

Nevertheless, Whole Foods, Target, Trader Joe's, and a number of regional grocers have successfully built large grocery stores in urban areas. It can be done, but its expensive because you can't (and shouldn't) cheap out and do surface parking. But if you take up an entire downtown block with grocery store you end up with around 80,000-90,000 square feet, which is plenty of space for a major full service grocery store.

[Sparrow]

It would work if it were similar to the Randalls in Midtown, though even that has more surface parking than would be ideal.

 

Nevertheless, Whole Foods, Target, Trader Joe's, and a number of regional grocers have successfully built large grocery stores in urban areas. It can be done, but its expensive because you can't (and shouldn't) cheap out and do surface parking. But if you take up an entire downtown block with grocery store you end up with around 80,000-90,000 square feet, which is plenty of space for a major full service grocery store.

 

A downtown block is 62,500 SF to be precise.

 

If that's not big enough build two floors. I've seen a Whole Foods with escalators--one for humans, one for shopping carts--to go from one floor to another.

[Texasota]

Even 62,500 sf is larger than the biggest Whole Foods in Houston.

How big is Disco Kroger? 30,000 maybe?

[Sparrow]

A typical non Marketplace Kroger is ~60K. Non Plus or Market HEB is 80k+. Whole Foods on Dallas is just under 40k. 

[Sparrow]

I believe grocery will help lead to the next signature tower in Houston.

 

Big Oil won't build it because the poor PR it would reflect upon them for how they spend their multitudes of profits. Modest design will continue to dominate the Energy sector to avoid the negative feedback.

 

On the other hand, the grocery business in Houston is ultra competitive right now. HEB, Kroger, Whole Foods, Sprouts, Aldi, Fresh Market, Fiesta, Randalls, Food Town, and don't forget Target and Wal-Mart. These companies are all jostling for market share. Billboards are everywhere and you can't turn on the TV without seeing Kroger or HEB advertising their sales. What better way to advertise their brand image than by triumphing over the skyline?

 

Grocery investing in a Downtown location requires more investment and planning than that industry is accustomed too. Parking is key to a large format grocer venturing into the market. The challenge is giving the same big basket experience to shoppers without sacrificing convenience or unnecessarily reducing profits.

 

When we get a full format downtown, I would like to see a full block ground and second floor with several levels of parking either above or connected via skywalk to an adjacent block. Provide checkout on both levels for the convenience of the pedestrian and vehicular customer--downtown "big box" won't flourish without catering to both. My thinking is, if they're going to invest that much already, they ought to partner with hotel, office, and/or residential not only to ensure their daily customer base, but also to gain the image of success with the tower above. Think Time Warner Center at Columbus Circle.

 

 

[Texasota]

Never mind.

[IronTiger]

Well, a Whole Foods downtown would tend to give a net gain of zero in terms of a "large, affordable supermarket downtown" because WF is expensive and while I've never been to Phoenicia, I imagine there'd be overlap in products offered and customers served.

Furthermore, it would need to be amazingly popular with lots of foot traffic to go for a supermarket with nearly no surface parking, but if you were going to go for that, why not place it in the tunnels?

We all know that the food court at Commerce Towers is more or less dead, what if that area was gutted and replaced with a large-ish supermarket? It might draw more people to Commerce Towers (hence, more people downtown) and bring life to a corner of the tunnels otherwise neglected. I mean, there's a lot of logistics issues there (time opening, accessibility), but the idea intrigues me.