Improvement Ideas Sought For Kirby Dr.

[lockmat]

Anyone know who the contractor is?

[rsb320]

Infrastructer improvements, such as drainage are incorporated. I'm assuming that they'll be burying those big giant culverts, like Kirby through West U. They're so big you could drive a full size car through them. All that digging would have damaged root structer of the trees and all. I'm a tree lover too, but when it's complete, all of the new trees will be (I assume) uniform in size and placement. I think it will have a neater appearance. I just wish that that would take this opportunity to bury all the phone and electric line. I think this stretch can really be a showplace boulevard.

Yea! I just read in The Village News that the utility lines will go underground. Also, the new trees will be Bald Cypress and High Rise Oak. These trees grow straight up and the roots straight down. This will reduce risk of damage to the utility infrastructer and the street (think Montrose sidewalks). They say that the current roots are under the road and would be cut and damaged anyway. Those type oaks that are currently there don't take kindly to their roots being messed with. They say examples of the new trees have been planted at Kirby and Steele and that the oak is currently nearly as tall as the old oaks. Scheduled completion is set for Nov. 2009.

[rsb320]

This an interesting article on High Rise Oaks. They're clones of Live Oak

http://www.cherrylake.com/Resources/TreeSo...ighrise_Oak.pdf

[Pumapayam]

The trees are dead.

135 of them to be cut, replaced with 148 new breed of Highrise Live Oaks mentioned above that grow more vertical in the top and roots system.

[ricco67]

The trees are dead.

135 of them to be cut, replaced with 148 new breed of Highrise Live Oaks mentioned above that grow more vertical in the top and roots system.

I don't care, as long as they're not palm trees.

[burlesona]

Posted on neohouston: http://neohouston.wordpress.com

This is my alternative idea for the Kirby widening. It's probably too late to save the trees, but perhaps could still be implemented someday to help reduce the traffic.

http://neohouston.wordpress.com/2008/07/22...y-can-be-saved/

Please leave comments on the blog. The blog itself is new, you all find it an enjoyable read!

[desirous]

They should narrow the street down to four lanes. That would allow enough room for wider sidewalks and bike lanes. You'd be amazed at how traffic patterns will cope -- traffic engineers' spreadsheets often reach the wrong conclusions.

[TheNiche]

They should narrow the street down to four lanes. That would allow enough room for wider sidewalks and bike lanes. You'd be amazed at how traffic patterns will cope -- traffic engineers' spreadsheets often reach the wrong conclusions.

Really, now? Is that so?

Care to back that up with empirical evidence?

[musicman]

They should narrow the street down to four lanes. That would allow enough room for wider sidewalks and bike lanes. You'd be amazed at how traffic patterns will cope

coping? i can tell you're not into real solutions.

[desirous]

coping? i can tell you're not into real solutions.

Didn't think that's such a bad word choice. Adjust -- would "adjust" be a superior verb?

Ever heard of reduced demand, the corollary to induced demand? Common sense is just as wrong about reduced demand as it has been about induced demand. Simple supply and demand - I thought you're capitalists.

Besides, the planners haven't provided any justification for making the east side of Kirby (even more) inaccessible to pedestrians.

[musicman]

Didn't think that's such a bad word choice. Adjust -- would "adjust" be a superior verb?

Ever heard of reduced demand, the corollary to induced demand? Common sense is just as wrong about reduced demand as it has been about induced demand. Simple supply and demand - I thought you're capitalists.

ok are we not talking Kirby where mega new construction is occurring? where is the reduced demand?

Besides, the planners haven't provided any justification for making the east side of Kirby (even more) inaccessible to pedestrians.

why is it inaccessible?

[TheNiche]

Ever heard of reduced demand, the corollary to induced demand? Common sense is just as wrong about reduced demand as it has been about induced demand. Simple supply and demand - I thought you're capitalists.

Ummm...yeah, intentionally making something more difficult for people to use so that they will switch to a lesser substitute is bad.

[JLWM8609]

And while we're at it, let's take Westheimer and turn it back into a two lane country road for that pastoral feel!

[desirous]

ok are we not talking Kirby where mega new construction is occurring? where is the reduced demand?

Free market principles apply in all situations. People will adjust, just as they did to Main Street.

why is it inaccessible?

See for yourself.

Considering the new developments on Kirby are pedestrian-oriented, they'll be needing a sidewalk wider than 4 or 6 feet. They're also removing the trees on the east side of the street, creating a sun-baked oven for anyone on that side.

And while we're at it, let's take Westheimer and turn it back into a two lane country road for that pastoral feel!

Great hyperbole. In that vein, let's make Upper Kirby look like Westheimer.

[TheNiche]

Free market principles apply in all situations. People will adjust, just as they did to Main Street.

People will indeed adjust. Adjustment doesn't equate to betterment.

[MidtownCoog]

My solution is best:

AVOID KIRBY AT ALL COSTS

I was at the Jeep dealer last Friday at 5:00! Never again.

[desirous]

By the way folks, don't get me wrong here. If there is room to expand, I wouldn't mind at all. I use Kirby in a pedestrian and cyclist capacity, and have objections to cutting the trees and kneecapping the sidewalk. My opinion is entirely selfish in nature -- it's a free country, and if I cared what y'all thought I'd be a liberal.

[memebag]

I drive on Kirby pretty often. Never during rush hour, but I try not to drive anywhere during rush hour. Today I drove on it at 6:30pm and it was smooth sailing. I know folks think the new developments will increase traffic, but look on the bright side. West Ave and 2727 could go belly up in their first year!

[musicman]

Free market principles apply in all situations. People will adjust, just as they did to Main Street.

i don't want businesses to close due to poor access or high land prices.

See for yourself.

Considering the new developments on Kirby are pedestrian-oriented, they'll be needing a sidewalk wider than 4 or 6 feet. They're also removing the trees on the east side of the street, creating a sun-baked oven for anyone on that side.

Do you understand that drainage is one of the key reasons why this project is being done, not to create a sun baked oven? Guess where the the underground culverts are located? in the middle of tree roots. it would be impossible to provide increased drainage capacity on this segment of kirby without disturbing the roots of the trees. the lanes on kirby are also too small for the volume of traffic that they handle daily. department of transportation has done studies on narrow lanes with speeds of less than 45. guess what, it results in more sideswipes and lower speeds. that's called antiquated and only becomes worse with increased traffic.

[RedScare]

the lanes on kirby are also too small for the volume of traffic that they handle daily. department of transportation has done studies on narrow lanes with speeds of less than 45. guess what, it results in more sideswipes and lower speeds. that's called antiquated and only becomes worse with increased traffic.

That's interesting. I've read several studies that say the opposite. Thinner lanes do cause drivers to lower their speed. However, lower speeds reduce accidents. Far from antiquated, the studies show what should be obvious...when roads are widened, speeds increase. On a city street, that is not the preferred result.

[musicman]

Thinner lanes do cause drivers to lower their speed. However, lower speeds reduce accidents.

yes but that doesn't mean thinner lanes reduces accident rates.

According to US DOT 4 to 5 lane conversions, result in a statistically significant increase in accident frequency of 10 to 11 percent. i agree there are many factors involved.

[RedScare]

yes but that doesn't mean thinner lanes reduces accident rates.

According to US DOT 4 to 5 lane conversions, result in a statistically significant increase in accident frequency of 10 to 11 percent. i agree there are many factors involved.

As Niche would say......source?

[JJVilla]

On the other hand, the article made some good points about reducing traffic by providing alternative roads/connections within the area.

[TheNiche]

That's interesting. I've read several studies that say the opposite. Thinner lanes do cause drivers to lower their speed. However, lower speeds reduce accidents. Far from antiquated, the studies show what should be obvious...when roads are widened, speeds increase. On a city street, that is not the preferred result.

I've seen those studies about 'traffic calming', too. My experience, though, has been that narrower lanes do make me feel like I'm going faster, only I'll drive even faster still because I want to maximize the sensory perception of velocity wherever I can.

Yeah, yeah, I know its just an anecdote. Just take it for what it is.

[musicman]

As Niche would say......source?

CONVERSION TYPE PERCENT CHANGE IN ACCIDENT FREQ (in bold)

4 to 5 lanes

Total accidents 10.96 2.88 3.8 Yes

Fatal, injury, and PDO towaway accidents 9.67 3.89 2.5 Yes

Fatal and injury accidents 10.59 4.56 2.3 Yes

in another US DOT mitigation manual(pg 31), summary regarding lane width (and potential impacts to safety and ops)

for urban arterials (like kirby with speeds under 45), the operational issues include sideswipe (same direction) crashes, reduced free-flow speeds and large vehicles off-tracking into adjacent lane or shoulder.

if it was more of a thru street vs one with with multiple turnoffs possible, i do think it would be less.

[RedScare]

I've seen those studies about 'traffic calming', too. My experience, though, has been that narrower lanes do make me feel like I'm going faster, only I'll drive even faster still because I want to maximize the sensory perception of velocity wherever I can.

Yeah, yeah, I know its just an anecdote. Just take it for what it is.

An amusing one, though.

I first thought you were going to say that you drive faster for fear of being sideswiped by the people next to you. I'll admit to doing that more than once on I-45 in Montgomery County, as the SUV driver next to me drifted my way while engrossed in a cell phone conversation. The first couple of times I laid on the horn, but when that caused one driver to jerk into my lane, I realized the dangerousness and futility of attempting to shake self-important people from their self-absorption.

[burlesona]

For what it's worth, I drive on Kirby at about 5:30 PM very regularly, and I don't find the road to be unbearably congested. It's slow, but it moves.

The key here is two-fold: wider lanes do increase travel speeds, and increased speed increases accidents more than anything else. When lanes are narrowed, speeds drop. Now, narrow lanes DO have more fenderbenders than wider lanes, typically. But, with the decreased speed comes decreased severity of accidents.

You know, it's funny, but it's almost like there's some sort of constant... like the dollar value of all wrecks on a road will be the same, but with fast, wide lanes you get a smaller number of bigger wrecks, and with small, slow lanes you get a higher number of smaller accidents.

I have no evidence for that, but it seems to play out based on other observations I've made.

[Subdude]

I certainly agree with the article in that street grids are a great way to improve traffic flow. That is in part why despite expectations, downtown was able to handle all the traffic for Astros games without major disruption. When I lived in the area i used Lake (parallel to and west of Kirby) a lot to avoid Kirby.

That said, there aren't many options to avoid Kirby on the south side of 59, and the 59 intersection will always be a bit of a choke point for traffic on Kirby.

One good improvement they are making on Kirby is the addition of pedestrian islands.

[sevfiv]

Some of the live oak trees that lined Kirby Drive were removed overnight as part of a controversial reconstruction project between Westheimer and Richmond.

The oaks, as well as crape myrtles, were taken down on the west side of Kirby from Richmond to Kipling. Trash bins placed along that stretch were full of the destroyed trees early today.

"We knew it would be done at night," Barry Ward, executive director of the nonprofit group Trees for Houston, said this morning.

"That is fairly typical," he said. "There is some justification when you do that, so it doesn't disrupt as much traffic. But, you'd also be naive to think it wasn't done so they wouldn't get so much public scrutiny."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metrop...an/5913017.html

[Pumapayam]

KPRC article

Cry tree huggers, cry away!

About 90 percent of the trees along the street, most of which were planted by Trees for Houston at least 20 years ago, will be replaced with 148 smaller ones.